Dancer discussion

[blister1]

One level in Qufim was enough to convince me to solo 23-25. Fuck crabs and their scissor guard spam. I haven't main healed yet, but I'm guessing I'll be able to once I get to the jungles..

on that note has anyone had success soloing VT mandy's? I figured def food + some gear tweaks would make them laughably easy.

[Max™]

>.>

No, I would not invite a Dnc over a Brd or a Cor.

If I was losing a Rdm or Whm I would look for a Dnc among the various other healing options.

Perhaps I was mistaken about them getting up to Cure IV in waltzes, the 5 second recast, uninterruptible nature of it, and the relative ease in gaining TP.

Me, I'm going to be playing the job as a healer that isn't boring, as that's what it is so far.

[Cylo]

>.>

No, I would not invite a Dnc over a Brd or a Cor.

If I was losing a Rdm or Whm I would look for a Dnc among the various other healing options.

Perhaps I was mistaken about them getting up to Cure IV in waltzes, the 5 second recast, uninterruptible nature of it, and the relative ease in gaining TP.

Me, I'm going to be playing the job as a healer that isn't boring, as that's what it is so far.

"Relative ease in gaining TP"
Don't get me wrong... at this level (27) I usually gain more TP than I can spend in one fight, but I am starting to notice issues on the more evasive mobs. Depending on what you fight, yes you are right. "Frontline Healer", just not in all circumstances.

[Max™]

Acc gear (battle gloves, acc rings, acc knives, optical earring, PCC) + merits (@3 Dagger atm) + Acc bonus (@30) + Sushi= Not much acc problems even at low levels.

Get a Bard, have em pop a madrigal up your butt and you're beyond fine.

[Mikayla]

Acc gear (battle gloves, acc rings, acc knives, optical earring, PCC) + merits (@3 Dagger atm) + Acc bonus (@30) + Sushi= Not much acc problems even at low levels.

Get a Bard, have em pop a madrigal up your butt and you're beyond fine.


What he said. I'm @2000 > 65, and I have absolutely no problems with accuracy. I've yet to find a situation where I'm suffering from any problems keeping my TP high between regular melee hits and Step>Reverse combos.

[Judai]

In my mind... I would say that the role of a Dancer is "Support". They aren't quite capable of being a Main Healer except in some circumstances.

They also can fill the following additional roles:
Puller
Backup Healer
Hate Control / Hate Assist


From http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Party#Basic_Strategy
Support: "Member of the party that facilitates the functions of a party. Able to increase the effectiveness of all other members of the party by enhancing the ability to deal damage, tank, and/or directly reduce downtime through usage of abilities that restore MP. The role of a support character is quite simply to support the other members of the party. While not having a direct impact on the goals of the party, a support character is just as important as the rest of the party. Having a support character around makes everybody's job easier - as one can easily enfeeble an enemy to deal less or take more damage, directly enhance a damage dealer's damage potential, or provide a safety cushion for healing when the healer has exhausted his/her resources."


So to answer your question... DNC can replace the following jobs: RDM, BRD, SMN, COR

Replace is not the right word. It can fill in for BRD and COR if they are not available or RDM if you have someone else to help heal but it doesn't replace what those jobs bring to the party. It can replace SMN though, lol. I wouldn't really rely on DNC for main healing, although it can do it if needed I am sure.

[Neosutra]

So meleeX3 dnc brd rdm?

[lost071]

In my mind... I would say that the role of a Dancer is "Support". They aren't quite capable of being a Main Healer except in some circumstances.

They also can fill the following additional roles:
Puller
Backup Healer
Hate Control / Hate Assist


From http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Party#Basic_Strategy
Support: "Member of the party that facilitates the functions of a party. Able to increase the effectiveness of all other members of the party by enhancing the ability to deal damage, tank, and/or directly reduce downtime through usage of abilities that restore MP. The role of a support character is quite simply to support the other members of the party. While not having a direct impact on the goals of the party, a support character is just as important as the rest of the party. Having a support character around makes everybody's job easier - as one can easily enfeeble an enemy to deal less or take more damage, directly enhance a damage dealer's damage potential, or provide a safety cushion for healing when the healer has exhausted his/her resources."


So to answer your question... DNC can replace the following jobs: RDM, BRD, SMN, COR

Replace is not the right word. It can fill in for BRD and COR if they are not available or RDM if you have someone else to help heal but it doesn't replace what those jobs bring to the party. It can replace SMN though, lol. I wouldn't really rely on DNC for main healing, although it can do it if needed I am sure.

I have to say I disagree with you about this. I'm not sure what lvl you are but once you hit 40, TP gain just isn't a problem anymore. When I'm not tanking with other dancers, and I'm not main healing I have to say I feel pretty useless. I feel like a RDM who also has a WHM in the party, meaning sure my enfeebles are nice but I'm not using my full potential. Also where have you been? RDMs only help heal? RDMs are MUCH MUCH more preferred as healers now a days. They are much more MP efficient then a WHM.

[Lordwafik]

RDMs only help heal? RDMs are MUCH MUCH more preferred as healers now a days. They are much more MP efficient then a WHM.

Nothing is more MP efficient than Regen spells matey.

[liefe]

I'd like to try DNC/BRD/COR/X3 Melee DD, COR replacable by BRD X2.

The only relative difference in RDM and DNC for meripo are Dia,(Enfeebs if applicable),Sleep backup. Though box step kindasorta replaces the need for dia, but they do stack well together. If the COR or a BRD were /WHM they could serve as a Dia2 bitch.

edit: Forgot haste (I don't know how..). That might make or break a particular party(one not killing fast enough to actually break chains). Haste Samba does not make up for the lack of the RDM/WHM haste spell enough really, but I guess if no RDMs were available it could be used.

[LD]

RDMs only help heal? RDMs are MUCH MUCH more preferred as healers now a days. They are much more MP efficient then a WHM.

Nothing is more MP efficient than Regen spells matey.

I wonder if that's why they haven't (yet) given SCH Regen 3 (& 4)...
Except for status heals and haste, Regenga could be the last nail in WHM's meriting coffin. However, it still has status heals and haste, so... :/

[Xanthe]

RDMs only help heal? RDMs are MUCH MUCH more preferred as healers now a days. They are much more MP efficient then a WHM.

Nothing is more MP efficient than Healing Breath matey.
Fixed.

[Lordwafik]

RDMs only help heal? RDMs are MUCH MUCH more preferred as healers now a days. They are much more MP efficient then a WHM.

Nothing is more MP efficient than Healing Breath matey.
Fixed.

Yeah that'd make sense if anyone brought loldrg into the argument. However, we're comparing whms and rdms.

[Maxxthepenguin]

RDMs only help heal? RDMs are MUCH MUCH more preferred as healers now a days. They are much more MP efficient then a WHM.

Nothing is more MP efficient than Healing Breath, but nobody cares about something that's so slow and requires less that 50% HP, matey.
Fixed.
Seriously, man, HEALING BREATH?

[Wizerd]

Regarding the question of what role a Dancer fills in a party, it doesn't really fit or replace any specific role.

I'm level 44 now, and I've had some pretty odd party setups that have worked very well (including one party that was doing 8k/hr at lv41). Dancer can do all sorts of things in the right situation:

- Dancer can main heal with a Paladin
- Dancer can main heal with a Ninja if the Dancer is also subbed Ninja and prepared to take hate
- Dancer can deal damage (especially above lv41 or 42 if subbing MNK with Raging Fists)
- Dancer can offer support healing on enemies that do a particularly high amount of damage overall (such as Flies, Goblins, and other AOE using mobs that a WHM simply can't keep up with Curaga-wise)
- Dancer can and does remove the "need" for elegy on monsters, with their ability to take hate in various ways and hold it while the tank prepares to get it back, turning this need into more of a "it'd be nice to have"

All the while inducing 5-13% defense down, evasion down, and/or magic evasion down on the monster throughout the fight.

I particularly like Dancer at the level I am now, because I've been able to do parties efficiently with only 1 back line job and sometimes a support job also. Most parties at this level pre-patch consisted of 3 back line jobs (usually 1 being a BLM, for the damage capabilities and the ability to cure if shit starts hitting the fan), and 3 front line jobs (a tank and 2 DDs who'd skillchain).

My best party so far was:

DNC/NIN (co-tank)
WAR/NIN (co-tank)
DRG/WAR (DD)
DNC/MNK (<- Me, and DDing)
SCH/BLM (DD only, never had to cure)
BRD/WHM (pulling, sleeping, and probably shoulda gone NIN sub)

I barely had to cure at all, because the other Dancer was using his ability to cure to solidify hate most of the time, and the WAR would get it off him about half the time through damage and provoke. It was great.

[neira]

From lv 40 to 47 DNC/NIN i had a unusual PT that did insanly well on everything in CN (even Exoray's). War/nin x 3 dnc/nin x 2 and drg/nin. Hate just kind of bounced around as you'd expect it to, and we just wondered around (carefully) picking of mobs. for the most part the war's juggled hate by staggering thier WS's, but on flys the other DNC and myself tanked almost exclusevly due to Divine Waltz spamming. We used Drain Samba II in the beginning and then switched to Haste Samba when we got it.

was wondering one thing though, we didnt think to try this at the time in that PT but, Obviousely you cant stack drain samba with aspir samba, but can you stack drain samba with haste samba? I "think" we did this at one point accidently (I noticed i was having haste proc on me [was what i casted and i think i was only one with 100% HP] and everyone else was having drain samba proc on them [what other DNC casted]) maybe i was tired or something, but any one know for sure?

Note: i didnt thoroghly read this entire thread (for obvouse reasons) so if some one alrdy addressed this i'm sorry but please say what you know, kthx.

[Max™]

RDMs only help heal? RDMs are MUCH MUCH more preferred as healers now a days. They are much more MP efficient then a WHM.

Nothing is more MP efficient than Curing Waltzes matey.
Fixed.

Fixed again.

[chichicha]

RDMs only help heal? RDMs are MUCH MUCH more preferred as healers now a days. They are much more MP efficient then a WHM.

Nothing is more MP efficient than Curing Waltzes matey.
Fixed.

Fixed again.

lvl 63, I kinda agreed with the statement.
MP cure, you have Cure I, II, III, IV, V - 5 different casting/ recast time.
Curing Waltzes ... all under one JA - Waltzes, afre you have use CW III ....
"Oops, sorry for your death, I tried to CW II you, but recast from CW III isn't over yet !"
or
"Oops, sorry, you asked for Erase, I did HW. You HP was low, I tried to CW III you, but again, Waltzes recast isn't over yet ... "

So far, I take Waltzes as backup only, rarely use them, unless otherwise for emergency.

p.s.
1) Wild Flourish -> Penta Thrust = Gravitation
2) Wild Flourish -> Guillotine = Induration

[FinalJustice]

if u want a dnc to be main heal, you will need more then one. Same if you want them to tank.

Yesterday we did Mnk, mnk, mnk dnc dnc brd. Got high chains, killed things faster then they reppoped im QSC forcing brd to do crazy long pulls from 49-53,

then today we did Sam, Rng, War, Brd, Dnc, Dnc all lvl 52-53 in Wajaon on Colobri getting high chains at 280-340 exp with NO exp band. when we were 56-57 the brd had to leave. the only thing seeking was another Dnc so we got him. I think the highest chain after that was chain 8. because of the slower pulling.

In bost cases dnc did a fair large amount of the tanking, and neither one had to use Animated Flourish. All you had to do was cure waltz something, and viola, youre tanking. So it doesnt matter if AF is slightly less hate then provoke. The hate you get from throwing a CW more then makes up for that and then some. But it these setups its not about making the dnc do all the tanking. just about everyone shares in it, so u simply melee burn with no mages. I didnt fully keep track of our time as in exp per hr, but i know we gained close to 14k before my first sushi with sanction extension naturally wore off. (i got lucky with snatch morsal.) Honestly i was shocked.

The only time TP was an issue was from the occasional feather tickle. But most of the time 5 Finishing moves were saved at all times to combat this somewhat. so between 2 dncs it wasnt a big deal.

But under a normal party, i dont know why a Dnc would "rarely" use waltz'.

[ruf]

So, soboro sam/dnc is fucking fun. Did a pt from 73-74 with a whm, four other DD, and me on sam/dnc. I kinda spammed Divine Waltz and kept Drain Samba II up and the whm hasted and did regen. Not the fastest party I've ever been in, but with soboro, haste gear, haste, and meditate I could WS everytime I was at 100tp or so and still spam dances as needed. Still parsed second under the monk.

[Maxxthepenguin]

So, soboro sam/dnc is fucking fun. Did a pt from 73-74 with a whm, four other DD, and me on sam/dnc. I kinda spammed Divine Waltz and kept Drain Samba II up and the whm hasted and did regen. Not the fastest party I've ever been in, but with soboro, haste gear, haste, and meditate I could WS everytime I was at 100tp or so and still spam dances as needed. Still parsed second under the monk.

That's pretty damn awesome


I must say, I am very impressed by DNC as both a main and sub job. This is the most expertly crafted job since ROTZ imo. It just flows and works so nicely.

I also have a question: Think DNC could work on traditionally BLM-centric HNMs with a subtle blow build for stutter step, status cures, and occasional co-tanking?

[Wizerd]

So, soboro sam/dnc is fucking fun. Did a pt from 73-74 with a whm, four other DD, and me on sam/dnc. I kinda spammed Divine Waltz and kept Drain Samba II up and the whm hasted and did regen. Not the fastest party I've ever been in, but with soboro, haste gear, haste, and meditate I could WS everytime I was at 100tp or so and still spam dances as needed. Still parsed second under the monk.

That's pretty damn awesome


I must say, I am very impressed by DNC as both a main and sub job. This is the most expertly crafted job since ROTZ imo. It just flows and works so nicely.

I also have a question: Think DNC could work on traditionally BLM-centric HNMs with a subtle blow build for stutter step, status cures, and occasional co-tanking?

I don't think the RotZ jobs were crafted that well. SAM has had a lot of improvements and adjustments since implementation before it was really "good", DRG kinda still sucks, and NIN wasn't supposed to be what it is today. Dancer however, is exactly what they expected it to be, and does a very good job at it, so far.

Regarding your question, I think DNC has more Subtle Blow traits than we're seeing, as well as Evasion Bonus. I don't really expect more Accuracy Bonus traits, although it'd be nice. Anyway, the DNC would only have to melee for about 20-30 buffer TP before they could just stay engaged, back turned, and spam Stutter Step every 15 seconds and use Reverse Flourish every 30 seconds (or when they had 4-5 FMs), without giving the mob TP, all the while increasing their own TP (and having the option to try and Stun it with Violent Flourish or Gravity it with Desperate Flourish, or even emergency Cure if the need arises).

So yes, Dancer is very likely gonna be an addition to long lasting monster fights that include BLMs as a good portion of their strategy. With the ability to reduce a mob's Magic Evasion by 13%, pure win.

[neira]

I havent checked this but it came up in a shell conversation, do Sambas benefit just your PT, or your entire Alliance, if mob is CFH does it help every one on the mob? Can you use Waltzs on ppl outside your PT but inside your alliance? If in dynamis where any one can hit the mob, does samba's benefit every one. Reason i'm asking is it debuffs the mob, doesnt do anything specific to your PT, just the ppl who hit the mob after you do.

Easy stuff to check (assuming you're high enough to enter dynamis), i have just never tried (and not high enough to enter dynamis), and i'm at work all day today so will be a long time before i can check it.

[Cylo]

I think "Steps" are the only dances that can affect players out of party. Everything else is party only (correct me if I am wrong please).

[Wizerd]

I think "Steps" are the only dances that can affect players out of party. Everything else is party only (correct me if I am wrong please).

Correct, but Jigs are self-only. :(

[neira]

thanks for the imput, i think we are going to start testing /DNC out in some end game situations where ninja's have limited use, wich is what spered the initial convo in shell.

[lost071]

So, soboro sam/dnc is fucking fun. Did a pt from 73-74 with a whm, four other DD, and me on sam/dnc. I kinda spammed Divine Waltz and kept Drain Samba II up and the whm hasted and did regen. Not the fastest party I've ever been in, but with soboro, haste gear, haste, and meditate I could WS everytime I was at 100tp or so and still spam dances as needed. Still parsed second under the monk.

That's pretty damn awesome


I must say, I am very impressed by DNC as both a main and sub job. This is the most expertly crafted job since ROTZ imo. It just flows and works so nicely.

I also have a question: Think DNC could work on traditionally BLM-centric HNMs with a subtle blow build for stutter step, status cures, and occasional co-tanking?

I don't think the RotZ jobs were crafted that well. SAM has had a lot of improvements and adjustments since implementation before it was really "good", DRG kinda still sucks, and NIN wasn't supposed to be what it is today. Dancer however, is exactly what they expected it to be, and does a very good job at it, so far.

Regarding your question, I think DNC has more Subtle Blow traits than we're seeing, as well as Evasion Bonus. I don't really expect more Accuracy Bonus traits, although it'd be nice. Anyway, the DNC would only have to melee for about 20-30 buffer TP before they could just stay engaged, back turned, and spam Stutter Step every 15 seconds and use Reverse Flourish every 30 seconds (or when they had 4-5 FMs), without giving the mob TP, all the while increasing their own TP (and having the option to try and Stun it with Violent Flourish or Gravity it with Desperate Flourish, or even emergency Cure if the need arises).

So yes, Dancer is very likely gonna be an addition to long lasting monster fights that include BLMs as a good portion of their strategy. With the ability to reduce a mob's Magic Evasion by 13%, pure win.

The huuuge problem with this is that this is assuming that you won't miss any steps. I'm not sure about you but I'm lvl 42 atm and I have decent acc gear, and i have some dagger merits and I still only land steps 80-90% of the time against exp mobs. I'm going to assume landing a step on a much higher lvl mob is going to be harder and even with good acc is probably going to be about 50% maybe less. THFs who have A- daggers, triple attack, access to the best daggers, etc. have a hard time building up TP on higher lvl mobs, i can't even imagine how its going to be for us. This job is supposed to be a main healer and without a steady source of TP I really just do not see this happening.

[Max™]

I will be shocked if SE doesn't implement a Latent Effect: Regain piece on the AF or some later piece of gear for Dnc, with the Regain triggered by under 40/60% or so Tp.

As far as healing, me and another Dnc/War were just chaining T's effortlessly at 18, and at one point got two T flies, and would have easily killed both if we hadn't started the fight with 40 and 60 TP, respectively.

As it was we killed one, and only reason I died was Cursed Sphere spam at the end of one, and getting a lot more hate than the other from crits.

We always wind up overcuring each other, really gotta work out a system for it, lol.

So no, considering neither of us have even "good" gear for tanking, I don't think keeping a real tank cured up would be too bad unless the party was retardedly overhunting, at which point I'd just leave and go solo for more exp/hour anyway.

[VZX]

Regarding your question, I think DNC has more Subtle Blow traits than we're seeing, as well as Evasion Bonus. I don't really expect more Accuracy Bonus traits, although it'd be nice. Anyway, the DNC would only have to melee for about 20-30 buffer TP before they could just stay engaged, back turned, and spam Stutter Step every 15 seconds and use Reverse Flourish every 30 seconds (or when they had 4-5 FMs), without giving the mob TP, all the while increasing their own TP (and having the option to try and Stun it with Violent Flourish or Gravity it with Desperate Flourish, or even emergency Cure if the need arises).

So yes, Dancer is very likely gonna be an addition to long lasting monster fights that include BLMs as a good portion of their strategy. With the ability to reduce a mob's Magic Evasion by 13%, pure win.

The huuuge problem with this is that this is assuming that you won't miss any steps. I'm not sure about you but I'm lvl 42 atm and I have decent acc gear, and i have some dagger merits and I still only land steps 80-90% of the time against exp mobs. I'm going to assume landing a step on a much higher lvl mob is going to be harder and even with good acc is probably going to be about 50% maybe less. THFs who have A- daggers, triple attack, access to the best daggers, etc. have a hard time building up TP on higher lvl mobs, i can't even imagine how its going to be for us. This job is supposed to be a main healer and without a steady source of TP I really just do not see this happening.

Am I the only one felt that steps has native acc-- ? It seems everytime I want to stick it, it often doesn't let me land it :/

[Lyramion]

RDMs only help heal? RDMs are MUCH MUCH more preferred as healers now a days. They are much more MP efficient then a WHM.

Nothing is more MP efficient than Curing Waltzes matey.
Fixed.

Fixed again.


We can just let the WHMs sub DNC and melee

[BRP]

Except for status heals and haste, Regenga could be the last nail in WHM's meriting coffin. However, it still has status heals and haste, so... :/

It's so odd to me that when a melee's role can be replaced it's no big deal, but when it's a mage the job is doomed.

[neira]

This job is supposed to be a main healer and without a steady source of TP I really just do not see this happening.

Considering that all curative abilities dancer has are on the same cooldown there is no way "in my opinion" that Dancer could main heal an XP PT or seriousely have been intended to be a main healer. I mean, i'm almost 50, and the cooldowns are alrdy kind of lame for the larger healing abilities, and heaven forrbid you have to remove a debuff.

"Oh shit tank has Def Down! ~Healing waltz~ OK, now dont get hit for 15seconds.

Back uphealer/debuffer/Melee DoT (just standing there wacking a mob)

[lost071]

Except for status heals and haste, Regenga could be the last nail in WHM's meriting coffin. However, it still has status heals and haste, so... :/

It's so odd to me that when a melee's role can be replaced it's no big deal, but when it's a mage the job is doomed.

Its not weird at all. In a normal party settup you usually have one healer, one support, a tank and 3 DDs, or 2 supports 1 tank, and 3 DDs. All melee DDs do the same thing more or less in pretty much the same way. The only difference is weapon types and some JAs. Comparing two healers like WHM and DNC on the other hand is different. Lets say somehow DNC can do everything a WHM could and more, that eliminates the one party slot that WHM had.

[LD]

Except for status heals and haste, Regenga could be the last nail in WHM's meriting coffin. However, it still has status heals and haste, so... :/

It's so odd to me that when a melee's role can be replaced it's no big deal, but when it's a mage the job is doomed.

....Eh...fisrt of all, I was comparing it to Scholar in a highly hypothetical situation (in which I admitted WHM would still have an advantage (unless SCH gets Haste), or didn't you get what I was alluding to in the 2nd sentence?) and second, the role of healer has been hacked away at long before Dancer (or Scholar) came around. WHM's only saving grace in most merits are its status heals and haste. Repose gives it a greater amount of utility and practicality, but nothing can beat RDM as a main healer for merits, even one who only has a basic idea of what he's doing. Devotion is nice & all, and the fact that it eats Stoneskin first is a major plus, but there are FAR too many WHMs out there who pick Prot 5. You can't really fuck up RDM group 2s (too badly((this is also in parenthesis))).

Also, don't fucking tell me of the marginalization of melee. I'm a MNK, ffs. ~_~;

[Sekkite]

but there are FAR too many WHMs out there who pick Prot 5.

If I had WHM levelled to 75 I'd put a point into prot 5. The better the animation, the bigger the e-peen.


Also, don't fucking tell me of the marginalization of melee. I'm a MNK, ffs. ~_~;

I levelled DRK and did end-game on DRK during the PS2 days, and never had a kraken club (so no souleater kraken fun). Anyone who remembers my old forum whoring can attest to the sheer amount of bitching I did on these forums at the time. That's not to say I wasn't justified in said bitching!

[Max™]

5 seconds between Waltzes.

If your tank dies in 5-10 seconds, get a new tank, or learn the timing of mob attacks better, knowing when cures will be needed is a very useful skill when healing someone, especially when you're limited by a shared timer.

[Takiwaki]

5 seconds between Waltzes.

If your tank dies in 5-10 seconds, get a new tank, or learn the timing of mob attacks better, knowing when cures will be needed is a very useful skill when healing someone, especially when you're limited by a shared timer.

agree totally and also to add that in the case where its that needed to cure spam, dnc has stun or voke flourishes to balance out the time between heals, to buy enough time to get the tank back to good condition. a 5 sec recast on an instant cast heal balances out well i think compared to a 2.5 second cast for cure. One just needs to adjust to the play mechanic a bit.

[Max™]

See, I don't mage at all, haven't seen I retired and deleveled my Rdm 58 > 36.

Curing isn't a reflex anymore, but getting used to Waltz timer wasn't hard.

Instead of a 2.5 second wait to get the cure off, it's a cure that lands instantly, and has a wait just after it.

You can interrupt any dance animation with another, so say you cure, mob WSes mid cure, smack it with a stun or whatnot.

[Lebzile]

To the whole shared timer thing; yea, you can spam the JAs back to back since they have no "Cast Time." <3 InstantCures

Also, MNK/DNC is pretty fucking awesome. >_>

[Max™]

I can't wait to get War/Dnc functional.

Campaign, Sky farming, Missions...god it's gonna rock.

Utility+Epic funny of a taru with a big axe leaping and spinning around.

[Kyreth]

Strangely, that sounds reasonable and not like Septimus's dojinshi collection. :)

"And now....Live from Bastok- the deadly, graceful power of the Galkan Axe Dancers!"

It's MP-free abilities, after all. And the abilities are handy.

What governs dance accuracy, anyway? +Accuracy stuff improves landing rate, right?

[Lyramion]

I have all those evil ideas on NIN/DNC... but koroloka so full atm for my 19 dnc :lol:

[kenshyn]

Strangely, that sounds reasonable and not like Septimus's dojinshi collection. :)

"And now....Live from Bastok- the deadly, graceful power of the Galkan Axe Dancers!"

It's MP-free abilities, after all. And the abilities are handy.

What governs dance accuracy, anyway? +Accuracy stuff improves landing rate, right?


Physical main hand weapon accuracy basically that is why it is so effective subbed.

[Kyreth]

Hmm. I know it'd be tough to check, but if subbed and you're wielding a 2hander, does it give DEX to Acc bonuses based on the 2-hander modifier, or the 1-hander?

[kenshyn]

Not really to tough to test out just compare the difference of your success rate with steps while wielding a 2hder then switch to a 1 hnder and repeat the test against similar mobs. Accuracy on 2 hnders is still better than 1 hnders in most cases in general. On my war this would be a pretty easy test Axe vs Great Axe the benefit of using a 1-hnder would be if you can use a shield and have a native shield skill. Nothing better than using /dnc to skill up melee skills bar none imho.

[Wizerd]

Curing Waltz: Instant cast, 6 second recast.
Cure II: 2.25 second cast, 5.5 second recast.

Curing Waltz II: Instant cast, 8 second recast.
Cure III: 2.5 second cast, 6 second recast.

Curing Waltz III: Instant cast, 9? second recast.
Cure IV: 2.5 second cast, 8 second recast.

Curing Waltz IV: Instant cast, 10? second recast.
Cure V: 2.5 second cast, 10 second recast.

Divine Waltz: Instant cast, 13 second recast.
Curaga: 4.5 second cast, 10 second recast.

Healing Waltz: Instant cast, 15 second recast.
Erase: 3 second cast, 15 second recast.


Obviously WHM has the advantage of being able to cast a different cure or spell directly after the other, but the only normal situation where a WHM would choose any 2 of these spells after one another is Erase / another -na spell followed by a Cure, on moves that do damage + status. If it's a normal exp party or battle, the WHM is staggering their cures to keep their MP up, and using only the cure necessary to cast once, instead of multiple times in a row. A Dancer has to stagger their cures the same way, due to TP limitations; the difference is the Dancer is forced to stagger.

When comparing each specific spell / dance, a Dancer has the ability to cast 2 of the same in a row noticably faster than a WHM, in the case of every single one of those, besides most -na spells.

So I agree, Dancer is a fully functional main healer, in any normal situation where the mob can be hit without too much danger. (Exp parties, Dynamis, Limbus, and more.) Just requires a little skill on the Dancer's part and the tank's part.

[Max™]

Dnc 25 here, god this job is fun.

Me and a friend are duoing, went into Korro, waded into a group of EM-T worms and just laughed as they nuked the hell out of us, and still died for their troubles.

Hit 24, went to Yhoat and beat up the Goblin's Bee there, which seems almost broken, not getting hit for 5 or 6 fights is just weird.

Dancer is hard as hell to kill.

We've chained T and VT mobs back to back to back to back, no downtime, killed IT's that aggroed, and had too many instances of two or three EM-T Yags and whatnot beating on us, and won.

[chichicha]

lvl 65 dnc, merit capped dagger - shark bite and eviscreation obtained at once :D

p.s. Wild Flourish -> Raging Rush = Induration

[blister1]

I'm hearing people claiming to get chain 2-3 against T-VT mobs solo, went to Qufim at 27 to try my luck and failed miserably. Gear isn't the issue I loaded up on +eva where suitable (hairpin/nomad mantle/battle gloves) used Mighty/Vision ring enchantments and ate meat jerky. Hit T Giants for 12-15 (usually 10-11) per dagger swipe (2 merits), they hardly ever fucking missed, and fight usually took 3-4 minutes.

Should I change food? switch to dual mighty rings? any tips other than using h2h? (Mnk is level 4 and I don't feel compelled to level another lowbie job atm)

[ruf]

Sub bst, find a spot where you can get an Even Match pet, load up on CHR gear, rock.

[Judai]

I solo/chained EM/T mobs easily up to 25, actually solo'd the whole way to 25. Full evasion gear, /nin sub, Dual Daggers once I hit 20. Mobs usually whiffed at me. Used Dex Rings myself. Prolly should work on gob pets at that level though. I did fight a few VT mobs and had links with 2 EM/T mobs on me and fought them off eventually. The fights take too long though for VT, EM/T mobs are the way to go imo. Unless fighting Gob pets, can prolly fight VT easily, maybe even IT but I put DNC on the shelf for now.

The BST thing only works if you actually leveled BST. Mine is Lv6..

[Takiwaki]

Dont know if anyone posted this but i think is kinda cool and relates to endgame. but flourishes and step have a slightly longer range than melee range. also you can land steps and flourishes with your back turned to the mob so its possible to land grav def down magic down etc on a slept mob

[Max™]

Dont know if anyone posted this but i think is kinda cool and relates to endgame. but flourishes and step have a slightly longer range than melee range. also you can land steps and flourishes with your back turned to the mob so its possible to land grav def down magic down etc on a slept mob

Waltzes have an IMMENSE Range.

I was running around looking for pulls in my Duo, and all of a sudden I think I get aggro (yay, more expies, nom nom nom) and instead it's the other Dnc pegging me with Waltz...but I can't see him, oh wait, there he is, way the hell behind me.

[chichicha]

DNC/NIN - Hand-to-Hand - do NOT have raging fist.
DNC/MNK - Hand-to-Hand - do have Raging Fist.

Just to correct one post before, but I am lazy to dig from 19 pages of forum. :p

Wild Flourish -> Combo = Fusion
Wild Flourish -> Shoulder Attack = Nothing
Wild Flourish -> Subtle Blow = Detonation
Wild Flourish -> Spining Attack = Liquafaction
Wild Flourish -> Raging Fist = Fusion

p.s. I am not sure what is correct, wikipedia seems to have error... anyway, lvl 67, I have capped (merit) Dagger, combat skill on Dagger is 237. According to wikipedia levels vs comabat skill, Dancer should have B+ rating, not B rating.

[Max™]

That's good to know.

[Anakron]

What hands/legs/feet are some of the higher-lvled DNCs wearing? I'm 46 now and I still have Winged Boots, Battle Gloves, and Garrison Hose. I don't see any real upgrades, but I could be missing something.

[Max™]

From what I've been looking at, here's what I'm thinking.

Main: Heart Snatcher mebbe, Behe Knife/+1, Jambiya and it's cousins.
Sub: Joyeuse
Ammo: Tiphia Sting
Head: Walmart Turban
Neck: PCC
Ear1: Brutal
Ear2: Suppa/Diabolos's
Body: SH+1/Pahlu/SH
Hands: Dusk Gloves
Ring1: Acc ring of your means to acquire
Ring2: Rajas
Back: Forager's/Amemet +1
Waist: Speed/Swift
Legs: Pahlu
Feet: Dusk

Anyone think of anything major I'm missing?

I Imagine those Denali legs would be good too, head would be swappable for Turban if you wanted, feet and hands are good for WS.

[Anakron]

Oh, no, I know there are lots of better stuff to wear past 70, I was mainly thinking of any good upgrades in the 50s and 60s.

I think people said that DNC can use Barbarossa's Zerehs, in which case those would be better than Pahluwan Seraweels.

[Max™]

Oh, no, I know there are lots of better stuff to wear past 70, I was mainly thinking of any good upgrades in the 50s and 60s.

I think people said that DNC can use Barbarossa's Zerehs, in which case those would be better than Pahluwan Seraweels.

Ah, good catch there, forgot about those.

Nice, 17-19% Haste obtainable in the usual slots.

[archibaldcrane]

What hands/legs/feet are some of the higher-lvled DNCs wearing? I'm 46 now and I still have Winged Boots, Battle Gloves, and Garrison Hose. I don't see any real upgrades, but I could be missing something.I'd argue for Republic Subligar, but otherwise yeah - Winged Boots and Battle Gloves look like they are the way to go.

[chichicha]

I am lvl67

These are what I have been using. Cheers! :)

Weapon - Dagger (Upgrade as Thief, Using best dmg you can get)
Off hand - Bone Knife+1, imo, it's nice on acc and atk, dmg won't be left far from main hand
Ranged - Tiphia Sting at ToA area/ Jr. Chakram while exp in normal places for extra STR+ or need to be fisherman

Head - Emperor Hairpin then Super Ribbon till now. (I am getting bored with it tho...)
Neck - Peacock Amulet :) , Chiv. Chain, swap PA if acc needed. Store TP+1 doesn't mean much to /nin
Earring - Heims Earring, Minuet Earring. before these, I used Optical Earring and an ATK+ earring
Body - Brig. +1 (45), SH+1 (57), Assault Jerkin (67), swap SH and AJ if acc needed. Only Tabin+1 worth replace SH and AJ imo, but good luck finding one ><
Hands - Battle Gloves all the way, tried Pallas ... but I don't like it. Dex-5 is too much. Now, Merman Hands all the time, and swap Battle Gloves if acc needed.
Ring - Rajas ftw, Unyielding Ring (for dex and vit) both are nice stat. TBH, I haven't really look at any acc ring... and always think that Sniper Ring is over rating. :p
Back - Nomad, Jaguar, now Amemet+1 and don't see any to replace. I like it with the atk and str. later if I am rich, I will get the update version. Ceberus ....
Waist - Sword belt and Life Belt swap alternatively, Potent belt and Warwolf belt swap alternative after 71.
Legs - Rep Sub, Feral Trouser, Thinking Clown Sub for WS until I get Denali Legs.
Feet - Leaping/ Bounding, Winged. imo, these are up till 72 Pln feets, but I am using Taru feets 62 and can't wait for Pln Feet.

Endgame - no idea yet, until I am there to try. :)

[Max™]

Jaridah Peti and Hands are both Dnc equipable, last I saw.

[Slott]

Don't forget matron's knife. 31/195 +4 dex. It's pretty good for dancer, from the first pirate fight.(As is star sapphire for khimmy's jambiya) Barbarossa's are from the 3rd fight.

[VZX]

Can anyone confirm whether desperate flourish gives the same effect as gravity? (-evasion on top movement speed down)

[Takiwaki]

No I dont think it adds evasion down cus it only says the mob is weighed down.

Also if anyone can test this, it may be intentional or a glitch but chocobo jig actually allows you to move through bind. very slowly though. I had Jig on in campain and this nm did bindga but I kept moving like i was grav'd. not sure if this is normal.

[lost071]

I am lvl67

These are what I have been using. Cheers! :)

Weapon - Dagger (Upgrade as Thief, Using best dmg you can get)
Off hand - Bone Knife+1, imo, it's nice on acc and atk, dmg won't be left far from main hand
Ranged - Tiphia Sting at ToA area/ Jr. Chakram while exp in normal places for extra STR+ or need to be fisherman

Head - Emperor Hairpin then Super Ribbon till now. (I am getting bored with it tho...)
Neck - Peacock Amulet :) , Chiv. Chain, swap PA if acc needed. Store TP+1 doesn't mean much to /nin
Earring - Heims Earring, Minuet Earring. before these, I used Optical Earring and an ATK+ earring
Body - Brig. +1 (45), SH+1 (57), Assault Jerkin (67), swap SH and AJ if acc needed. Only Tabin+1 worth replace SH and AJ imo, but good luck finding one ><
Hands - Battle Gloves all the way, tried Pallas ... but I don't like it. Dex-5 is too much. Now, Merman Hands all the time, and swap Battle Gloves if acc needed.
Ring - Rajas ftw, Unyielding Ring (for dex and vit) both are nice stat. TBH, I haven't really look at any acc ring... and always think that Sniper Ring is over rating. :p
Back - Nomad, Jaguar, now Amemet+1 and don't see any to replace. I like it with the atk and str. later if I am rich, I will get the update version. Ceberus ....
Waist - Sword belt and Life Belt swap alternatively, Potent belt and Warwolf belt swap alternative after 71.
Legs - Rep Sub, Feral Trouser, Thinking Clown Sub for WS until I get Denali Legs.
Feet - Leaping/ Bounding, Winged. imo, these are up till 72 Pln feets, but I am using Taru feets 62 and can't wait for Pln Feet.

Endgame - no idea yet, until I am there to try. :)

Denali feet are definitely the best feet we can currently equipped. Denali gamashes give +5 acc STR+3 MND+3 INT+3 m.acc+3. Pahluwan feet give DEX+4 acc+3 r.acc +3.

The very best gear we can currently equip include:

Weapons:Heart snatcher, jamb+1
Head: W.turban, O-hat
Body: Pahluwan body
Hands: Dusk?
Legs: Pahluwan legs, or denali legs
Feet: Denali Gamashes
Belt: Swift belt, potent belt, life belt
Neck: Love Torque, chiv. chain, p.charm
Rings: Rajas, woodsmen, snipers, Ulthalam's
Cape: Amemet+1?
Earrings:Minuet, brutal, supp
Ammo:Smart grenade, tiphia sting

I'm hoping DNC, SCH, PUP, BLU, and COR all get some kind of 70+ JSE soon...

[Max™]

Does Macc affect Steps? If not then it comes down to 3 Str for a job that only melees for TP, and the same actual amount of Acc, 4 Dex+3 Acc or 5 Acc.

[VZX]

No I dont think it adds evasion down cus it only says the mob is weighed down.
In RDM Gravity desciption, it only mentions 'weighed down'. No further info about evasion. But, the fact is Gravity does gives -eva

[Judai]

Denali feet are definitely the best feet we can currently equipped. Denali gamashes give +5 acc STR+3 MND+3 INT+3 m.acc+3. Pahluwan feet give DEX+4 acc+3 r.acc +3.

The very best gear we can currently equip include:

Weapons:Heart snatcher, jamb(+1), Khimaira(+1)/Adder Jambiya(+1)
Head: W.turban, O-hat
Body: Pahluwan body, Assault Jerkin
Hands: Dusk(+1)
Legs: Barbarosa Zerehs, Pahluwan legs, or denali legs
Feet: Dusk(+1), Denali Gamashes
Belt: Swift belt, potent belt, life belt
Neck: Love Torque, chiv. chain, p.charm
Rings: Rajas, woodsmen, snipers, Ulthalam's
Cape: Foragers/Cerb+1
Earrings:Minuet, brutal, supp
Ammo:Smart grenade, tiphia sting

I'm hoping DNC, SCH, PUP, BLU, and COR all get some kind of 70+ JSE soon...

Fixed

Dusk Feet for TP, Denali are WS onry. Legs, as multiple people have said in multiple threads, best possible is Barbarosa Zerehs. idk about Heartsnatcher, might be ok but most THFs see it as worthless I think.

[Koyangi]

Depending on what HNM a DNC will even participate in, the Dusk(+1) would be situational with Denali feet, in merits with sushi i don't see a problem with Dusk(+1).

[lost071]

Oh wow.. DNC can use barb? I had no idea...Barb would be best pants then.

[chichicha]

idk about Heartsnatcher, might be ok but most THFs see it as worthless I think.

Because THF does have so much better Dagger to use.
As for DNC, this is one of the best I can see and easier to obtain.

At the moment, I am more curious about what a DNC can merit on their ability... oor adding more FLourishes :p
Sometimes, it's too much finishes moves to use ! XD

[Kikaru]

Actually Behemoth Knife +1 and Jambiya are both seen as much better than heartsnatcher to thf community since the dot on heartsnatcher even with the crit% makes it a pile of junk and dnc can equip both of these :) so saying thf gets better options doesn't apply.

[Takiwaki]

idk about Heartsnatcher, might be ok but most THFs see it as worthless I think.

Because THF does have so much better Dagger to use.
As for DNC, this is one of the best I can see and easier to obtain.

At the moment, I am more curious about what a DNC can merit on their ability... oor adding more FLourishes :p
Sometimes, it's too much finishes moves to use ! XD

I can see SE adding a conserve tp merit, or a samba duration merit. a flourish accuracy even a waltz recast merit

tier 2 would add more dances. or steps. dispel or raise would be nice.

[Theytak]

party with a 66 dnc, as war/sam
Drain Samba III SS

http://www.maj.com/gallery/gahati/me/img_20071210_190822.png

[Anakron]

So I noticed a few of you guys took out Joyeuse as a viable off-hand option. B dagger and D sword is 250 vs 210 skill, for about 36 accuracy difference (should be less with Supp.). Assuming roughly a 5% accuracy decrease for each 10acc, that makes off-hand about 20-25% less accurate (I know it's not linear, but I'm not sure what the exact number is). Wouldn't that still put Joyeuse ahead of a dagger? Joyeuse will have about 25-30 more delay than daggers, but that shouldn't affect functionality since DNCs aren't going for 100TP in the shortest amount of time; they just want a steady stream. Damage may be a bit lower, but I don't think that should be too big a concern for end-game DNCs (unless you hit for 0).

Where 1.5 is Joyeuse attacks per round, x is dagger accuracy, and 0.25 is estimated accuracy loss from sword, the inequality will hold true for values of x above 0.75, right?

1.5 * (x - 0.25) > 1.0 * x

I know my math is very basic and raw, so I'm not trying to convince anybody...just expressing my thoughts.

On anything other than the more evasive HNMs, doesn't that make Joyeuse better?

[Cylo]

Well first off, you aren't thinking about attack or even total damage output, you are looking at what? TP Gain? Total connected hits?

Behemoth Knives also add attack.

[ruf]

I guess if you're inviting a dnc for total damage instead of dance spam, it's like inviting a cor for straight DD. (no offense, love me some cor)
edit: not implying there is not ever a case where this isn't how it will work out, just don't know if they should worry about damage output over TPing.

[recca84]

Anyplace for a 37 DNC to solo for some good xp while waiting for a pT :(... Too many Dancers around my lvl and getting a pt chance is low.so might as well find a place to solo while waiting.. Preferable EM or T's.. : P

[Anakron]

I'm mainly looking at TP-gain, but you're right--the inequality I have above only accounts for accuracy. I believe that should reflect TP-gain fairly well, but I'll try to dig out some formulae and see what the comparison would be given the delay and TP-per hit numbers.

[Shadowhusky]

Anyplace for a 37 DNC to solo for some good xp while waiting for a pT :(... Too many Dancers around my lvl and getting a pt chance is low.so might as well find a place to solo while waiting.. Preferable EM or T's.. : P

Goblin pets. They're everywhere. Try the Zi'Tah outpost.

[blister1]

Anyplace for a 37 DNC to solo for some good xp while waiting for a pT :(... Too many Dancers around my lvl and getting a pt chance is low.so might as well find a place to solo while waiting.. Preferable EM or T's.. : P

http://monsters.ffxi-atlas.com/

[Maxxthepenguin]

Anyplace for a 37 DNC to solo for some good xp while waiting for a pT :(... Too many Dancers around my lvl and getting a pt chance is low.so might as well find a place to solo while waiting.. Preferable EM or T's.. : P

http://monsters.ffxi-atlas.com/
Let's make this really easy

http://monsters.ffxi-atlas.com/list.php ... sortby=lvl (http://monsters.ffxi-atlas.com/list.php?form_keywords=%27s&x=0&y=0&sortby=lvl)

[recca84]

Thanks that really helps :P :o

[Wizerd]

Curing Waltz III obtained and tested~


Unfortunately I couldn't keep one stat controlled while gradually raising the other, due to limited CHR / VIT selection at lv50. However, just like the previous two, it didn't appear to matter, as CHR and VIT both affected it the same amount.

I used the following dataset:

Cured-CHR-VIT-Total
340-50-44-94
341-50-45-95
342-50-46-96
342-53-44-97
343-53-45-98
344-53-46-99
345-56-44-100
345-56-45-101
346-56-46-102
347-59-44-103
348-59-45-104
348-59-46-105
349-62-44-106
350-62-45-107
351-62-46-108

To figure out that the formula is:

Curing Waltz III
HP Cured = (Dancer's CHR + Receiver's VIT)*0.75 + 270

To recap...
Curing Waltz II
HP Cured = (Dancer's CHR + Receiver's VIT)*0.5 + 130

Curing Waltz
HP Cured = (Dancer's CHR + Receiver's VIT)*0.25 + 60

Using this, we can determine that Curing Waltz IV has a 12 second recast (based on the previous 6,8,10 pattern), and the formula should be:
HP Cured = (Dancer's CHR + Receiver's VIT)*1.00 + 550

This would allow a DNC with lv50 stats (at least with my base stats as a Hume) to cure themselves for 643, which isn't too bad considering the stats scale up and more CHR/VIT gear becomes available by lv75.

[chichicha]

Anyplace for a 37 DNC to solo for some good xp while waiting for a pT :(... Too many Dancers around my lvl and getting a pt chance is low.so might as well find a place to solo while waiting.. Preferable EM or T's.. : P

I keep hearing people said 6 DNC pt 15k/hr around level 24 - 38.
May be you can try that ? Since you said there is lots of DNC lfp. :)
I haven't got any chance to try it, but I did a few exp pt with another DNC, the Box Steps or Quickstep capped so fast. Sometimes, I even need to use the Slutter Step to gain 2 moves :)



So I noticed a few of you guys took out Joyeuse as a viable off-hand option. B dagger and D sword is 250 vs 210 skill, for about 36 accuracy difference (should be less with Supp.). Assuming roughly a 5% accuracy decrease for each 10acc, that makes off-hand about 20-25% less accurate (I know it's not linear, but I'm not sure what the exact number is). Wouldn't that still put Joyeuse ahead of a dagger? Joyeuse will have about 25-30 more delay than daggers, but that shouldn't affect functionality since DNCs aren't going for 100TP in the shortest amount of time; they just want a steady stream. Damage may be a bit lower, but I don't think that should be too big a concern for end-game DNCs (unless you hit for 0).

Where 1.5 is Joyeuse attacks per round, x is dagger accuracy, and 0.25 is estimated accuracy loss from sword, the inequality will hold true for values of x above 0.75, right?

1.5 * (x - 0.25) > 1.0 * x

I know my math is very basic and raw, so I'm not trying to convince anybody...just expressing my thoughts.

On anything other than the more evasive HNMs, doesn't that make Joyeuse better?

It's not that I don't want or lazy (a little bit tho) to get Joytoy.
(Lots of people got Joytoy, especially, RDM, told me it's luxury decorating item >.>; may be just for WAR is useful or PLD... I guessed.)
TBH, I don't have problem to gain TP. Sometimes, I found it is annoying to have too much TP... 100+, 200+, 300 >.>;

Just an example to demostrate how I got my TP -
10 TP - 2hits from two daggers - 1 Steps = 2 moves = Reverse Flourish = 21TP, all these happened, while my daggers are non-stop hitting.
Another 2 Steps (has to wait for RF recast) - RF - 46 TP, again my daggers are not stopping swinging.
I got 67 tp in 35 sec ish, just from DNC JA.
And after that ... you will see how much TP you have...

p.s. - Thanks for doing the Cure Waltz Test ! :D

p.s. D rating with B+ rating (while my Dagger is merited cap and becomes between A+/A), I don't like seeing myself missed on hitting so much. I tried Hand-to-Hands at lvl68 exp pt, PCC, SH+1, Life Belt and pumped in all ACC I can, I still occasionally missed 20% of my hits, even missed on Steps. :(
However, Corsair with JoyToy and Merc. Kris, at 75, merit capped both, in TP burn pt, pwn with Martial Gun ! :)

[Koyangi]

Based on how often Joyeuse procs twice and with capped sword merits and suppa, with a good offhand dagger (mainhand for WS choices?), I'd see Joyeuse best to TP in regardless.

[Max™]

Wish sushi, acc gear, and merits it shouldn't be that bad for exping and whatnot.

You can completely forget about attack after all, as long as you don't hit for goose eggs, Dnc isn't a DD.

Looking forward to putting my Joyeuseless to work, since it retired once I got Steel Cyclone on War >.>.

[Maxxthepenguin]

If you're hitting the mob you should worry about doing some damage :P

[Wizerd]

If you're hitting the mob you should worry about doing some damage :P

Agreed. You guys who are saying DNC is not a DD at all, what benefit do you see for DNC over a WHM or something then? WHM can Haste, they can Dia II, and they can sub RDM to Gravity to get all the same general benefits DNC gives. There are subtle advantages DNC would still have over mages, but not many.

The nice thing I see in DNC is that we can do some decent damage while tanking *and* main healing. The steps are 5%, 7%, 9%, 11%, and 13% down effects depending on the level, which in merit-style parties when you're looking at 1-3 steps per battle, is still pretty decent (I'd use one of each starting with Box Step, then Quickstep and alternate back and forth I think). Main healing hasn't been a problem since getting level 50, with a Cure IV equal available every 10 seconds, and when you're not worrying about status effects (this is why Colibri own). This also makes it easy to tank (but this is why Colibri can suck sometimes for DNC). Fortunately, in the case of Colibri, DD are usually stronger than your Curing Waltz III spams. But anyway, I'll stop blabbing.

DD is still important if you're gonna take up a party slot. My best parties on DNC so far currently at lv53 have been without Bard, although I've had one with a Bard that still tops the list.

[Falisa]

While I don't see Dancer as being a great job for those HNMs (very situational atleast) I do see Dancer as being a great job to low man many different NMs. You'll be able to solo a great amount of things at 75, that even though they might take awhile to kill, I am pretty certain that Dancer won't have to worry about not being able to kill something by themself, or with the harder NMs (the Yovra in sea came to mind when I was thinking about this lol) you could easily small man them. Thats something about Dancer I see coming in handy for me at 75.

[Wizerd]

While I don't see Dancer as being a great job for those HNMs (very situational atleast) I do see Dancer as being a great job to low man many different NMs. You'll be able to solo a great amount of things at 75, that even though they might take awhile to kill, I am pretty certain that Dancer won't have to worry about not being able to kill something by themself, or with the harder NMs (the Yovra in sea came to mind when I was thinking about this lol) you could easily small man them. Thats something about Dancer I see coming in handy for me at 75.

The solo possibilities are pretty endless @ lv75 - anything that doesn't one-shot you or hit too hard to two-shot you with melee hits.

[Wizerd]

I'd edit my previous post, but since this is completely unrelated I felt it deserved its own:

What gave people the impression that Curing Waltz spells give less Enmity than their Cure spell equivalents? It seems to me that for the amount cured, it gives the exact same amount of Enmity, if not more. I can see the reason people thinking this is because the Waltzes start out curing less than the spell equivalents, but by now this should seem wrong.

Also wanted to ask anyone with DNC at 70+ about Curing Waltz IV; does it give Enmity like Cure V (ie: less than Curing Waltz III), or is there no evident reduction on its hate?

[Nyiri]

I am pretty certain that Dancer won't have to worry about not being able to kill something by themself, or with the harder NMs (the Yovra in sea came to mind when I was thinking about this lol) you could easily small man them.

If I ever fight Yovra on DNC, I am *so* starting the battle with no weapons equipped. I suppose I'll want to cap HtH skill for that, too.

[Falisa]

Because that statement helped this thread SO much.

[Nyiri]

Because that statement helped this thread SO much.

More useful than trite flamebait like this.

Consider: gear-stripping moves performed by Yovra, Merrow, and the like remove items from every slot, including weapons. What happens when your weapon changes? And how might that affect a Dancer?

[Falisa]

Why even post things like that? It seems like you're trying to start an argument.

And theres many different ways to get around that problem, but thats not what my post was about. So please troll :arrow:

[Nyiri]

Why even post things like that? It seems like you're trying to start an argument.

And theres many different ways to get around that problem, but thats not what my post was about. So please troll :arrow:

Please, can we keep things constructive? Whatever you've read into what I've had to say here, I'm not actually here to troll, argue, or posture. I think it's perfectly natural to hear people talking about using DNC against mobs that wipe TP and think to onesself "My, but that could be inconvenient! I wonder whether there's a way to avoid having my TP flushed when it does the cute naughty tentacle WS?"

From there, I was just sort of extrapolating my experiences on DNC in Besieged vs Undead. I found the Merrow family's "Stripga" WS to be so annoying that, were there any chance at all I would still be able to hit and damage the things, I would much rather simply not equip a weapon at all. At least that way, when I *do* get my gear stripped, I wouldn't get my TP flushed as well. Obviously there are other approaches to the problem, too. That's just what I imagine my first approach would look like.

There are other WS that annoy me quite a bit on DNC, ao well. The TP-zeroing WS that Fomori, Colibri, and Gnats do is fairly annoying. At least Colibri only dump my TP if I take hate; Shadoweye's Gnat units and Fomori are a pain, with their area-effect TP-flushing WS.

I haven't tried fighting Ladybugs or Imps on DNC yet, but am entering the level range where I should expect to end up in a Caedarva party. I expect that Amnesia would annoy me quite a bit. Traditional healers can carry Echo Drops to counter the Silence area-effect WS; what do Dancers do to deal with the Amnesia equivalent? Hope noone takes any damage for the next minute? Sub WHM so actual Cure spells can fill in the gap? I think if it came down to it, I'd probably go with the latter. There just aren't really that many options, if you're the party's only healer. (If there's a secondary magic-based healer, PLD or whatever, they could obviously fill in for you...)

[Falisa]

Make sure to always keep a few finishing moves on yourself is one thing that comes to mind. If you're going to use a move that completely rids you of your finishing moves, have a step ready for reverse flourish. Also with those, i really doubt you'll be soloing so I'm sure the other people you're fighting with can do something to assist you.

[Max™]

Thinking about Dnc as a DD neglects the most powerful tools the job has.

Hmmm, dinky little B skill Dagger pokes, D skill Joyeuse whiffs and pokes, a bare minimum of abilities that actually enhance YOUR Damage as opposed to helping out the party and incidentally helping yourself, the best Dagger WSes, but not the best Daggers, nor the abilities that really make those stand out, SA, TA, Triple.

Gear selection that gives great accuracy and haste options, but jack for real key DD gears.

Yet it has the potential to cure 640+ HP, Erase, Curaga, Endrainga (which is effectively Regen for melees), debuffs, two of which are melee benefit only, and some abilities which look to me to be wonderful at keeping people alive in bad situations.

Tank lose shadows? Stun the mob. Got a link and no sleeper? Whack it with Gravity, Voke it, and run it around for a second.

It's not more of a pure DD than a Whm/Nin is, and as cute as Whm/Nin's are, they aren't going to be topping any parsers with pure DD's in the party.

[ruf]

Not sure if this has been answered, but have people over 60 tried out dnc/sam? I know sam as a sub really shines with 2h weapons and not having access to Seigan or Hasso may be enough for some to discredit it, but it seems to me like Meditate alongside Reverse Flourish would be great. And the ability to start with at least enough TP to get the first waltzes going, which is a minor annoyance in exp, but could be pretty useful for BCs and the like.
Are people just going dnc/nin the whole way up?

[Max™]

Most people just Dnc/Nin, yeah.

Dnc/Sam would have a spot in certain things I can think of, BC/ENM/KSNM, Mission fights, perhaps for camping long pop window mobs, you get there on time and you can meditate up 300 Tp before it pops usually, enough to make sure you can land however many -Meva steps you need, and toss out some cures to boot.

For Exp, no, people just /Nin.

[Mikayla]

I'd edit my previous post, but since this is completely unrelated I felt it deserved its own:

What gave people the impression that Curing Waltz spells give less Enmity than their Cure spell equivalents? It seems to me that for the amount cured, it gives the exact same amount of Enmity, if not more. I can see the reason people thinking this is because the Waltzes start out curing less than the spell equivalents, but by now this should seem wrong.

Also wanted to ask anyone with DNC at 70+ about Curing Waltz IV; does it give Enmity like Cure V (ie: less than Curing Waltz III), or is there no evident reduction on its hate?

It seems like it has enmity closer to Cure V, but to be honest, I haven't done any concrete testing. This is just from a glance, but I've pulled hate more with Curing Waltz III than IV.

[Nyiri]

Not sure if this has been answered, but have people over 60 tried out dnc/sam? I know sam as a sub really shines with 2h weapons and not having access to Seigan or Hasso may be enough for some to discredit it, but it seems to me like Meditate alongside Reverse Flourish would be great. And the ability to start with at least enough TP to get the first waltzes going, which is a minor annoyance in exp, but could be pretty useful for BCs and the like.
Are people just going dnc/nin the whole way up?

Before playing the job, I sort of expected to want DNC/DRG at 30, as 6% haste and attack+6 are pretty compelling. By the time I'd reached 30, I had spent enough time cotanking that I didn't want to give up Utsusemi.

I also expected I'd want to switch to DNC/SAM at 60... after all, Meditate and Store TP would clearly benefit the job! Similar story there, though. Those cures generate a decent chunk of enmity, and few dancers, myself included, gear theirselves to avoid this. Also, by the time I'd reached 60, my TP rate in XP parties has long since become a non-issue. If my TP rate *were* an issue, it would be because the party needs near-constant beefy cures. In this situation, I expect enmity would swiftly become more problematic than TP rate. The job is sort of self-balancing in this way.

I don't know about other dancers, but I've mostly been levelling the job with meleeburn-style parties where everyone has ninja subjob, including the paladin that I've been semi-staticing with. In this situation, I've been using cures as a form of provoke, letting people get into the range where I can drop my largest one on them, buying myself three shadows' worth of hate, after which the paladin throws out a Flash or the thief drops a SATA, and the paladin is tanking once again. At this point, I can recast utsusemi and be ready to repeat the process. This sort of setup has been extremely effective, and has been pulling down meleeburn experience rates, without a bard.

There are probably situations where support jobs other than ninja would be desirable for a dancer... BC fights, HNM fights, stuff like that. So far that I've played, though, XP parties are not that situation. Pretty much everyone just rides DNC/NIN to the top. What they do from there... I'll see when I get there. 8)

[ruf]

Cool. I really like the idea of dnc being used as partially healer/tank/debuffer/DD. Taking it from 30-37, I was setting up sata and pretty easily pulling hate off the ninja's I partied with even without often relying on animated flourish. I guess with the increased cost of curing waltzes, I imagined it'd be more and more necessary to keep really high TP a majority of the time, though that may end up being more of a way to get the dancer killed than spreading out smaller cures and keeping drain daze on the mob.

[Wizerd]

I also expected I'd want to switch to DNC/SAM at 60... after all, Meditate and Store TP would clearly benefit the job! Similar story there, though. Those cures generate a decent chunk of enmity, and few dancers, myself included, gear theirselves to avoid this. Also, by the time I'd reached 60, my TP rate in XP parties has long since become a non-issue. If my TP rate *were* an issue, it would be because the party needs near-constant beefy cures. In this situation, I expect enmity would swiftly become more problematic than TP rate. The job is sort of self-balancing in this way.

My TP rate has been an issue recently sometimes, and I'm at lv55, but this is mostly only in certain party situations.

Example: 2-3 SAM/WARs co-tanking with Seigan/Third Eye. I tank a decent chunk of these parties too, but they are awesome for damage, and are great when there are no bards or no healers on. I'm also in set with a SCH, which poses some problems for typical Haster, Bard, Dancer(to replace second bard), 3x melee setups. SAM SAM SAM DNC SCH WHM was one, where the WHM and I basically spammed cures, more me than him. That party was easily getting BRD style exp for lv50. My most recent one, which was clocking in at 11-12k/hr, was BRD SCH DNC NIN SAM THF, where the SCH subbed BLM and was able to consistently nuke almost the entire time. Best part is we were fighting Colibri, so I occasionally had my food and TP wiped. When your NIN is 53 on Colibri with no Haste, he tends to get damaged. Same with that SAM who doesn't like to use Seigan, haha. However, I was able to main heal the party pretty darn well, almost always keeping under 100 TP just so that if I did gain hate, I wasn't at a huge loss when it decided to own me.

Point? I agree, the job is very self balancing and it's very nice to be able to spam Cure IVs without consequence. A RDM or WHM can't do that. :P


I don't know about other dancers, but I've mostly been levelling the job with meleeburn-style parties where everyone has ninja subjob, including the paladin that I've been semi-staticing with. In this situation, I've been using cures as a form of provoke, letting people get into the range where I can drop my largest one on them, buying myself three shadows' worth of hate, after which the paladin throws out a Flash or the thief drops a SATA, and the paladin is tanking once again. At this point, I can recast utsusemi and be ready to repeat the process. This sort of setup has been extremely effective, and has been pulling down meleeburn experience rates, without a bard.

I've found my best parties in good ol' skillchain parties, but again, I'm set with a Scholar so I like to use that potential as I can. I imagine when we get to the level of Helices, we might start doing some slight overhunting on non-reflecting mobs that'll take some nice MB'd Helix spells to the face, but it depends how much HP they have left; may not be worth it, I don't know. But since I only just hit lv55, and am about to enter the TP burn levels, I get to see how well Dancer performs. XD



Cool. I really like the idea of dnc being used as partially healer/tank/debuffer/DD. Taking it from 30-37, I was setting up sata and pretty easily pulling hate off the ninja's I partied with even without often relying on animated flourish. I guess with the increased cost of curing waltzes, I imagined it'd be more and more necessary to keep really high TP a majority of the time, though that may end up being more of a way to get the dancer killed than spreading out smaller cures and keeping drain daze on the mob.

A fun fact about Curing Waltzes... It's more efficient TP-wise to use Curing Waltz IV on someone to cure 500 HP than it is to use Curing Waltz III > Curing Waltz. Compare this to a WHM who has the option of casting Cure V (135 MP), or Cure IV (88 MP) followed by Cure II (24 MP), to cure 500 HP (for a total of 112 MP spent).

The higher your Waltzes get, the better it is to use the higher Waltz to overcure than the lower Waltz to undercure. Our highest costing JA is Curing Waltz IV at 65 TP, and that comes at a cost of about 15-25 seconds depending on accuracy and hastes. A WHM can't put out that kind of healing, nor can a WHM handle the brunt that comes from spamming it.

[lost071]

Cool. I really like the idea of dnc being used as partially healer/tank/debuffer/DD. Taking it from 30-37, I was setting up sata and pretty easily pulling hate off the ninja's I partied with even without often relying on animated flourish. I guess with the increased cost of curing waltzes, I imagined it'd be more and more necessary to keep really high TP a majority of the time, though that may end up being more of a way to get the dancer killed than spreading out smaller cures and keeping drain daze on the mob.

I hate this and I'm really not going to depend on it. Being decent in multiple areas=no spot in endgame. Endgame is all about specialization. People what the jobs that can fill certain roles the best, not jobs that can fill in a couple roles decently. I really like the healing/enfeebling aspect of the job, and I think thats where SE is going to build off of. I mean they said the job was a frontline healer with some support abilities. This makes it similar to WHM or RDM.

[Max™]

I'm sorry, did I forget the other jobs that could impair magic evasion?

That is unique, highly desireable, and placed in a job that can provide tons of extra curing power to boot.

[Lucavi]

/Nin is all you're ever going to see, unless you see some wacky JP doing dnc/whm like an idiot. Didn't you guys get the memo about /nin being the only sub to use for anything?

[Vigion]

I'm sorry, did I forget the other jobs that could impair magic evasion?

That is unique, highly desireable, and placed in a job that can provide tons of extra curing power to boot.

Need to be in same party for that effect huh? Don't know how valuable this would be, because you would have to replace someone. Wonder if replacing a BLM in the party would be good.

[Cylo]

Actually if you have a BLM party, a melee dd party and a tank party... the DNC could be the healer for the melee DD party while still sticking magic evasion down.

I have no idea how this helps merit parties.

[Max™]

Uh, no, last I checked you don't have to be in party to get the Step effects.

Samba's require that.

I know when Dnc's in campaign outside my party use Steps I see the "The Qulun Heavyshell is afflicted with Lethargic Daze [Lv.3]" message.

Pretty sure it's a general debuff to the mob that benefits anyone, so you could put a Dnc in the Tank party to provide a hate buffer between the squishier healers and the tanks for some things, or just have them in any appropriate party with a slot to put -MEVA on the mob for the Blms.

Edit: Like Zy said, you could also put them with the melees, without a refresher needed, and they could keep that part up on their own. Hell, a /Dnc melee or two could do a respectable job keeping a melee party up for many things.

[Cylo]

Uh, no, last I checked you don't have to be in party to get the Step effects.

You're right. And I think I am just realizing the true power of Steps here in large events.
Imagine... landing Quick or Box Step is like giving everyone in dynamis accuracy+ or attack+. Even Bards can't do that. I just hope they don't make it impossible to land on the harder stuff.

Has anyone found a way to improve accuracy of Steps?

[Max™]

Uh, no, last I checked you don't have to be in party to get the Step effects.

You're right. And I think I am just realizing the true power of Steps here in large events.
Imagine... landing Quick or Box Step is like giving everyone in dynamis accuracy+ or attack+. Even Bards can't do that.

*gives Cy a gold star, to make up for calling him Zy earlier*

You are correct Sir!

Same with landing the -Meva one, can't remember the name, but yeah Dnc has a slot secured for many things given it's unique tools, even if it's just a couple of them.

[ruf]

About specialization: the one thing I see more than anything else in this game is a disregard for the intended specialization of a certain. People gear pld for DD, for main healing, and for tanking. Nin has gone from an intended ranged attacker and enfeebler to straight DD and versatile tank. People want to tank on whm, and it seems like it may work in certain situations. There is no such thing as pure specialization in this game as long as players are willing to try unexpected things. DNC, as far as I can see, doesn't necessarily have the greatest potential in end-game situations due to the need to TP on stuff that may either have high evasion or def, resulting in slow TP gain or whatever. However, if the past is any indication, players will find a way around that, and I hope they do. They seem to be given a good number of directions they can be pushed in, and gear/play style can pick which way you decide to focus.

[Anakron]

Has anyone found a way to improve accuracy of Steps?Should be dependent on main-hand accuracy.

On another note, how often are people landing the Stun on Violent Flourish? I was exping on +7-9 LVL mobs and missed the stun on only 1/4 or 1/5, which isn't that bad. Obviously, you won't rely on it at HNMs but it could help stop, say, gobbie bombs while exping. Might also come in handy to stop Behemoth Meteors and earth-based mobs' (e.g. Jailer of Faith) spells once in a while.

[Charla]

I'm sorry, did I forget the other jobs that could impair magic evasion?
Closest thing I can think of is warlock's roll (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/Warlock%27s_Roll), but that only affects one pt. I thought dream shroud gave m.acc too, but apparently that's just MAB and MDB.

Wait, don't threnodies reduce resist rate of hit-or-miss (debuff) spells? Or do they only work on magic damage?

[Max™]

Yeah, pretty sure -MEVA is a unique thing to Dnc, and one that Blm's will LOVE them for, along with Sch.

[Xanthe]

I'm sorry, did I forget the other jobs that could impair magic evasion?
Closest thing I can think of is warlock's roll (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/Warlock%27s_Roll), but that only affects one pt. I thought dream shroud gave m.acc too, but apparently that's just MAB and MDB.

Wait, don't threnodies reduce resist rate of hit-or-miss (debuff) spells? Or do they only work on magic damage?
I'm pretty sure thredonies are like anti-barspells, reducing a target's resistance against a particular element. They should affect both debuffs and damage spells.

[miokomioko]

I'm sorry, did I forget the other jobs that could impair magic evasion?
Closest thing I can think of is warlock's roll (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/Warlock%27s_Roll), but that only affects one pt. I thought dream shroud gave m.acc too, but apparently that's just MAB and MDB.

Wait, don't threnodies reduce resist rate of hit-or-miss (debuff) spells? Or do they only work on magic damage?
I'm pretty sure thredonies are like anti-barspells, reducing a target's resistance against a particular element. They should affect both debuffs and damage spells.

Thus, reducing magic evasion towards a specific element. So yes, Bard technically does that, if only to one element at a time... and let's not forget elemental Ninjutsu as well if we're being nit-picky.

[Max™]

So there are specific elemental debuffs, but across the board (probably -13%) MEVA, helping other debuffs land, nukes land, and the like. Still a unique thing, and powerful enough to make people want to bring them along.

[Xanthe]

So there are specific elemental debuffs, but across the board (probably -13%) MEVA, helping other debuffs land, nukes land, and the like. Still a unique thing, and powerful enough to make people want to bring them along.
Not to mention that since it is its own status effect it will stack with a threadony or elemental ninjutsu, so all the better.

[Max™]

So there are specific elemental debuffs, but across the board (probably -13%) MEVA, helping other debuffs land, nukes land, and the like. Still a unique thing, and powerful enough to make people want to bring them along.
Not to mention that since it is its own status effect it will stack with a threadony or elemental ninjutsu, so all the better.

Hadn't even thought about that, so yeah. Dancer has a spot for anything that is going to have magic damage play a factor.

Lemme think.

Khimmy, -MEVA for the Blm's, -Eva or -Def when needed
Kirin burn, -Def assuming you have Feint which covers Acc nicely, and Haste Samba for a melee party with a zerging hasted Drk would be effective, same for Baha V2
Wyrms, -MEVA ftw
Dynamis, multiple alliance melee buffing? Fuck yeah! Thf mob? tag with -eva, Pld mob -Def ftw. If Steps can be landed without meleeing or waking a mob, tag things that are slept with -Meva.

PLUS you can toss out cures, stun, grav, etc.

Yeah, don't gotta worry about finding a use for it endgame I don't think.

[Vigion]

Someone asked a question about steps on HNM's. I went 75DRK/30DNC to Aspid to mess around. Box step landed 5/6 times. Was using sword. So, yeh accuracy so far seems pretty decent on most everything. I'm sure SE doesn't want you missing steps, because then it can really gimp the job.

[Max™]

Just your main weapon accuracy.

Sushi, Acc gear, Madrigal, Merits.

[Wizerd]

Violent Flourish and Desperate Flourish also appear to use accuracy as its main stat for whether the effect lands or not. Also, judging by the animation of Violent Flourish, I would wager that the Stun effect is lightning based, just as nearly every other stun in the game, meaning it won't work on things already resistent to Stun.

I plan on testing out Quickstep eventually, using the whole check method with different accuracy gears, but probably not until 75 where I can get a lot more accuracy options than what I have now. I have no idea how one would test the magic evasion down, but if Quickstep is -5,7,9,11,13% evasion impairment, I think it'd be pretty safe to assume that the magic evasion one is the same.

In Dynamis, if you can secure a Bard and a Haster in your party, you won't be able to use your TP fast enough I don't think, because of the limiting timers haha.

[Kimkytaru]

With my H2H merits I decide to use /monk until 37 I dont see why people dont like that sub much, maybe ti's because of my merit that it rocks so much but god, I love it XD can't wait for 30 and the 5 H2H skill + martial arts enhancer mantle.

[Wizerd]

I decided to re-affirm my testing on Box Step last night, and it's definitely 5%, with 2% following for a total of 13% with lv5. The defense of the target rounds up of course, since it's the d.down effect rounding down. Tested on 200, 300, and 256 defense - it's xx/100 for sure, not calculated by xx/128, xx/256, or xx/512.

[Xanthe]

With my H2H merits I decide to use /monk until 37 I dont see why people dont like that sub much, maybe it's because of my merits that it rocks so much but god, I love it XD can't wait for 30 and the 5 H2H skill + martial arts enhancer mantle.
You said it yourself. Two H2H merits at level 20 are enough to close the skill gap between Dagger and H2H to a point to where it's negligible.

[edit]
Grammarhammer :ashira:

[Max™]

57 Levels of Monk, 0 Levels of a Dagger wielding job, I just put a couple of merits into Dagger and went with it, +acc on knives, and Utsu since I duo mainly right now.

[Repairs]

"'m sorry, did I forget the other jobs that could impair magic evasion?"

Blu, Brd, Cor: all have types of magic adjustments. They are not that impressive. DNC doesn't add much to mage specific pts. It's a nice add-on if it works like TH, so one DNC could give magic evasion for a whole alliance.

[ruf]

Already been stated that the step affect goes onto the mob, so the mob is debuffed, regardless of who is hitting them.

[Max™]

Blu can apply a similar debuff, but it's costly and resistable.
Brd can debuff for one element.
Cor can debuff for one element.
Nin can debuff for one element.
Dnc can debuff for all spells cast on the mob, and as far as I know, it can't be resisted, only missed.

That is unique.

[fantasticdan]

Blu can apply a similar debuff, but it's costly and resistable.
Brd can debuff for one element.
Cor can debuff for one element.
Nin can debuff for one element.
Dnc can debuff for all spells cast on the mob, and as far as I know, it can't be resisted, only missed.

That is unique.

Blu can't lower magic resists or magic evasion in anyway, unless you're counting the int down from lolsoundblast. Also, since when can cor debuff elemental resists? Quick draw doesn't affect threnody, and IIRC it actually erases the ninjitsu debuffs (unless this has been fixed?).

[Max™]

Oops, guess I was wrong about Blu and Cor, I thought Blu got a -magic resist something or other, and thought Quickdraws with the ele cards debuffed to that element like ninjutsu does without erasing the ninjutsus.

So that makes Dnc's ability to do so even more unique.

[chichicha]

With my H2H merits I decide to use /monk until 37 I dont see why people dont like that sub much, maybe it's because of my merits that it rocks so much but god, I love it XD can't wait for 30 and the 5 H2H skill + martial arts enhancer mantle.
You said it yourself. Two H2H merits at level 20 are enough to close the skill gap between Dagger and H2H to a point to where it's negligible.

[edit]
Grammarhammer :ashira:

My Dagger is merit capped, at 65, my dagger is in between A- & A+ rating.
You hand to hand is merit capped, at 65, your hand-to-hand is in between C+ & B- rating.

Your combat skill will be 22 lower than mine, even compare to non-merit DNC, your is still 6 level lower than them.
But, if you prefer H2H, carry on still. I have no offense with people playing style :)
Again, no offense, I am just making above comparison for your information. :)

[Xanthe]

With my H2H merits I decide to use /monk until 37 I dont see why people dont like that sub much, maybe it's because of my merits that it rocks so much but god, I love it XD can't wait for 30 and the 5 H2H skill + martial arts enhancer mantle.
You said it yourself. Two H2H merits at level 20 are enough to close the skill gap between Dagger and H2H to a point to where it's negligible.

[edit]
Grammarhammer :ashira:

My Dagger is merit capped, at 65, my dagger is in between A- & A+ rating.
You hand to hand is merit capped, at 65, your hand-to-hand is in between C+ & B- rating.

Your combat skill will be 22 lower than mine, even compare to non-merit DNC, your is still 6 level lower than them.
But, if you prefer H2H, carry on still. I have no offense with people playing style :)
Again, no offense, I am just making above comparison for your information. :)
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm 100% for daggers on DNC. I was just making a justification for Kimytaru's success at lower levels with H2H. I definitely wouldn't advocate anything but daggers as that skill gap continues to grow.

[Sci]

Oops, guess I was wrong about Blu and Cor, I thought Blu got a -magic resist something or other, and thought Quickdraws with the ele cards debuffed to that element like ninjutsu does without erasing the ninjutsus.

So that makes Dnc's ability to do so even more unique.
BLU can lower magic defense, boosting damage.

COR can provide Warlock's roll which is a large increase to Macc. And since it's a buff, it can't miss or be resisted. And can also provide Wizard's roll which increases MAB.

[Xanthe]

Oops, guess I was wrong about Blu and Cor, I thought Blu got a -magic resist something or other, and thought Quickdraws with the ele cards debuffed to that element like ninjutsu does without erasing the ninjutsus.

So that makes Dnc's ability to do so even more unique.
COR can provide Warlock's roll which is a large increase to Macc. And since it's a buff, it can't miss or be resisted. And can also provide Wizard's roll which increases MAB.
That doesn't make what DNC does any less unique. Warlock's roll is limited to the COR's party, but Stutter Step will lower the magical evasion of the mob for anyone who is attacking regardless of party or alliance. Also, Warlock's roll can be resisted, per se, via random results or an unfortunate bust. Steps will always provide a consistent effect for their active level.

Furthermore, it's already been stated that steps can be combined with the other buffs/debuffs (e.g. Warlock's roll and Stutter step or Enervation and Box Step) giving an even greater benefit. Since you do not have to choose between one effect or the other, it makes what DNC is able to provide unique. The very fact that each step gives it's own specific status effect says as much.

A contrary example would be Angon vs Acid Bolts. Both give the status "defense down" and only one or the other can take effect at a time. Angon and Box Step will stack however, giving you an even better combined effect. Make sense now?

[Repairs]

It will be interesting to see, when someone does proper testing and figure out the specific numbers of the magic evasion down (I.e. is it better then COR redmage rolls?).

[VZX]

A contrary example would be Angon vs Acid Bolts. Both give the status "defense down" and only one or the other can take effect at a time. Angon and Box Step will stack however, giving you an even better combined effect. Make sense now?
Angon and Acid bolt's defense down are fall into 2 different categories?
If Angon can remove the def up from scissor guard/cocoon, then it's less likely different than acid bolt def down

Boxstep, on the other hand is fall under "sluggish daze". It can coexist with acid bolt's/angon and Dia's at once.

[Xanthe]

A contrary example would be Angon vs Acid Bolts. Both give the status "defense down" and only one or the other can take effect at a time. Angon and Box Step will stack however, giving you an even better combined effect. Make sense now?
Angon and Acid bolt's defense down are fall into 2 different categories?
If Angon can remove the def up from scissor guard/cocoon, then it's less likely different than acid bolt def down
No, my point was that Angon and Acid Bolts do inflict the same status effect.


Boxstep, on the other hand is fall under "sluggish daze". It can coexist with acid bolt's/angon and Dia's at once.
You've got me backwards. If you read the rest of my post you'll see this is EXACTLY what I was saying.

[Wizerd]

And that's the wonderful thing about DNC. The ability to stack yet another [xxx] down on a mob, beyond what already existed in the game, is very unique, and very awesome.

I want to know, though, how does one go about testing Magic Evasion down statuses? I want to test it, just to make sure it's the same %s as Box Step (although I'm pretty certain it is), but I have no idea how.

[Max™]

Find a mob with known stats.

Determine what the resist rate for a certain spell at a certain int/etc would normally be, cast 20-30-100 times, hit the mob with Stutter step, repeat, plot out the rate of resists, simple math from there, correct?

[Wizerd]

Find a mob with known stats.

Determine what the resist rate for a certain spell at a certain int/etc would normally be, cast 20-30-100 times, hit the mob with Stutter step, repeat, plot out the rate of resists, simple math from there, correct?

Seems too reliant on non-randomness to test something that's suspected to be in increments of 2%. Though I suppose if I repeated the test 5 times, one for each level, I'd probably find something approximate enough to the 5->7->9->11->13 to call it that safely.

[Max™]

Wow, Desperate Flourish is pretty sweet.

Friend and I were duoing Gigas Tigers in Beauc, get a bad pull and die, but we set HP there so we could run back easily.

I get there first and Spectral up, then I watch him load, but before he can act, a Tiger turns and starts hitting him, I 2hr so I can spam cure, get TP, land a step and Desperate Flourish and we start running.

Made it halfway down the glacier before it caught him, I landed another Gravity and got to the last ramp before you can zone to Bat Downs, but it wore fast that time and I got caught with aggro around.

Hell of a chase though.

[Ratatapa]

Anyone else did new Testing for Wild FLourish?.

All i know is that WF can do SC lv 2 because

WF to sidewinder = Fragmentation
WF to Raging Fist = Fusion.


But i don't quite understand why yet

[Ryushii]

Just a comment from an outside perespective on DNC in parties.

I leveled with 3 different parties that each had 2 dancers in them. Basically, every single party was quite good. Healer DNCx2 and DDx3 is great as long as the DDs have Utsusemi/Seigan. DNCx2 Tank DDx3 is even better, because hate is solidified. I especially love PLDs here. However, Healer Tank DNCx2 DDx2 is dumb and wasteful. Either the tank, healer or one of the DNC needs to go, because when we had this setup the kill speed was pretty gimped.

So basically I wanted to say this because DNC are awesome. Even in the 50's 2 DNC can replace a healer or a tank. <3.

[Koyangi]

It's very doable pretty much for all parties to 75, some instances where 3 dnc are better than 2, Imp's might be the only mob where we won't be as effective/efficient though.

[chichicha]

DNC74
made a burn pt.

BRD, RDM, SAM, NIN, MNK and me (DNC)

Chain 33 twice, somehow stopped at 33 twice, coincidently...
messed up with repopped...
At Great Colibri camp.

I kept Haste Samba on all the time. Quickstep all the time, Reverse F. and Spam WS DE.

Well, another DNC friend, 72, exp with his LS mates, 150+ chain. 2 SAM, 1 MNK, 1DNC, 1WHM and 1BRD.
Lucky him to have such LS mates together.

[Vigion]

Not that mobs stay alive long enough to do anything crazy with steps, but I would def go with Box step instead of quickstep. People shouldn't be having accuracy problems in merits anyways.

[VZX]

If quickstep can make the melee sushi-less. Why not?

[Kurokikaze]

If quickstep can make the melee sushi-less. Why not?

Oh god... The bomb has been dropped!

[Maxxthepenguin]

If quickstep can make the melee sushi-less. Why not?

God damn it

[Wizerd]

Not that mobs stay alive long enough to do anything crazy with steps, but I would def go with Box step instead of quickstep. People shouldn't be having accuracy problems in merits anyways.
5-9% evasion down will be more noticable in merits than 5-9% defense down. As it is, 2-handers eat meat since the DEX strengthening update, and makes for confused Bards when the party mix is a 1H and 2H one. I'd use Quickstep.

[Vigion]

Not that mobs stay alive long enough to do anything crazy with steps, but I would def go with Box step instead of quickstep. People shouldn't be having accuracy problems in merits anyways.
5-9% evasion down will be more noticable in merits than 5-9% defense down. As it is, 2-handers eat meat since the DEX strengthening update, and makes for confused Bards when the party mix is a 1H and 2H one. I'd use Quickstep.

I suppose it really would come down to who you're meriting with and your opinion on what works better. I would still go with boxstep, as I don't ever see anymore need for extra accuracy when meriting with ls mates. The 5-9% defense down can help increase all other DD's damage, which sorta makes up for the lack of damage from DNC.

[chichicha]

Reason i use quicksteps - we are fighting Greater Colibri.
No food is used...
Acc is still a problem for Greater Colibri while most players are using multi-hit WS. You won't want you Multi-hit WS launched with only 1 hit.

And I used Box Step and QUickstep to compare at Greater Colibri. Quicksteps make use kill them quicker than Box Steps.

Cheers!

p.s. Ding ! DNC75 :) [ Aye, once again, proved that I have no RL ! :p ]

[Mikayla]

Reason i use quicksteps - we are fighting Greater Colibri.
No food is used...
Acc is still a problem for Greater Colibri while most players are using multi-hit WS. You won't want you Multi-hit WS launched with only 1 hit.

And I used Box Step and QUickstep to compare at Greater Colibri. Quicksteps make use kill them quicker than Box Steps.

Cheers!

p.s. Ding ! DNC75 :) [ Aye, once again, proved that I have no RL ! :p ]


Grats! I dinged 75 two days ago, so welcome to the club. :lol:

[Max™]

While Duoing I've noticed Quick Step doesn't just help the other Dnc, it helps me build Tp consistently too. Box Step is just if we get an IT mob or something and have enough time to max on Quick steps.

Also: My GOD /Dnc is amazing for Campaign, and War/Dnc tanking with it rocks.

[AzazaelFenrir]

I realize shit is situational, but those of you at 75, what is your current gear setup?

[Kimkytaru]

My Dagger is merit capped, at 65, my dagger is in between A- & A+ rating.
You hand to hand is merit capped, at 65, your hand-to-hand is in between C+ & B- rating.

Your combat skill will be 22 lower than mine, even compare to non-merit DNC, your is still 6 level lower than them.
But, if you prefer H2H, carry on still. I have no offense with people playing style :)
Again, no offense, I am just making above comparison for your information. :)

Dont get me wrong, H2H is viable only until 56, after that the gap between both skill get too wide to gain good tp with H2H.

Someone did a TP test and it's good up until then.

i dont plan on getting DNC higher than 37 before AF are released. I'm 32 atm and with the belt from lv.30 and my merit I have 5 more H2H skill than dagger. If I had dagger merited I would use dagger but atm H2H is more efficient for me.
At 65 I would use dagger too.
Also my dagger skill is capped from thf so no worry on having low dagger skill if I have to use them in a pt.

[Rionel]

Here's a small question for some of you higher leveled DNCs:

I partied with a Lv75 DNC last night, and he was talking about how Stutter Step improves the stun resist rate of Violent Flourish since the stun is magical based. So is Violent Flourish a weak melee attack that has a magic based stun attached to it, therefore making Stutter Step better to use than Quick Step if you wanted Violent Flourish's stun effect to proc? Does the same apply to Desperate Flourish's Gravity effect?

And just for fun...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Rionel/sonia_dancer.jpg

I never noticed her WS in Campaign before...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Rionel/sonia_asuran.jpg

Darn you SE for making Dancer NPCs with above B rank H2H skill... (even if it's just an NPC, it kinda makes you jealous)

...Where are those Destroyers?!

[Nyiri]

Re: Quick Step vs Box Step

When I'm the only dancer, I typically do one level of Quick Step, followed by one level of Box Step. That gets me -5% to both evasion *and* defense, as opposed to -7% to only one of the two. From there, I work evenly across the two, so that a missed Step doesn't cause the effect to drop. If I'm not the only dancer, we tend to each choose a Step and spam that one so they both fill up quite rapidly.

[chichicha]

doubt a D rating H2H PC will get Asuran fist ...
Same as THF D rating on Sword, never get Savage Blade...

Unless...
Pre-MNK75, Merit Capped H2H Pre-owed Asuran Fist, and get all H2H Skill+ gears... >.>;

It is nice for Asuran Fist...
My Dancing Edge does exceed 1k, but... on EP Lesser Bird >.>;
On Greater Colibri, best I had is around 700+ with Food support ... Well, I don't have pimp gears, at least ... not Denali Legs :(




Dont get me wrong, H2H is viable only until 56, after that the gap between both skill get too wide to gain good tp with H2H.

Someone did a TP test and it's good up until then.

i dont plan on getting DNC higher than 37 before AF are released. I'm 32 atm and with the belt from lv.30 and my merit I have 5 more H2H skill than dagger. If I had dagger merited I would use dagger but atm H2H is more efficient for me.
At 65 I would use dagger too.
Also my dagger skill is capped from thf so no worry on having low dagger skill if I have to use them in a pt.

No worry, Kim. I was making the comparison so that whoever is reading knows the different and use what they want :)

[Wizerd]

Here's a small question for some of you higher leveled DNCs:

I partied with a Lv75 DNC last night, and he was talking about how Stutter Step improves the stun resist rate of Violent Flourish since the stun is magical based. So is Violent Flourish a weak melee attack that has a magic based stun attached to it, therefore making Stutter Step better to use than Quick Step if you wanted Violent Flourish's stun effect to proc? Does the same apply to Desperate Flourish's Gravity effect?

Violent Flourish can have 3 outcomes: Miss, hit without stun proc, hit with stun proc.

Wizerd uses Violent Flourish, but misses the Worker Crawler.

Wizerd uses Violent Flourish.
The Worker Crawler takes 22 damage.

Wizerd uses Violent Flourish.
The Worker Crawler takes 22 damage and is stunned.

The physical hit effect seems to be based on accuracy, while the stun effect seems to be based on magic resistance, as you and that lv75 DNC suggested. I've definitely noticed more stuns on mobs with Stutter on as opposed to mobs I've been spamming with Quickstep or Box Step.

Desperate Flourish also has 3 outcomes; however, they're a little different:

Wizerd uses Desperate Flourish, but misses the Worker Crawler.

Wizerd uses Desperate Flourish.
The Worker Crawler is weighed down.

Wizerd uses Desperate Flourish.
No effect on the Worker Crawler.

This one is strictly based on accuracy, and while it says it's inaccurate, it's actually quite accurate when you haev the appropriate accuracy. If you use an A- or A+ weapon on a main job and use this one, it'll hit a solid 95% of the time on anything around Even Match or lower. I'd say it's on level with Slugwinder, but I don't have RNG leveled so I can't comment on that for sure. :P

[VZX]

And just for fun...

Sonia

I never noticed her WS in Campaign before...

2k%20asuran%20fist

Darn you SE for making Dancer NPCs with above B rank H2H skill... (even if it's just an NPC, it kinda makes you jealous)

...Where are those Destroyers?!
DNC can use destroyers :P

And duh... it's campaign NPC. Commander Type also. It's broken in the same time fun to watch. like this (http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=848896#p848896) too

[archibaldcrane]

When I'm the only dancer, I typically do one level of Quick Step, followed by one level of Box Step. That gets me -5% to both evasion *and* defense, as opposed to -7% to only one of the two. From there, I work evenly across the two, so that a missed Step doesn't cause the effect to drop. If I'm not the only dancer, we tend to each choose a Step and spam that one so they both fill up quite rapidly. :bagel: I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter. This is what I recommend as well.

[Sukili]

I realize shit is situational, but those of you at 75, what is your current gear setup?

I'd like to know this as well. Assault Jerkin over Scorpion Harness or Palahwan body? Are Dusk Gloves a must or would the Tabin Gloves +1 be a good alternative? Which daggers are you using? /NINs using Joytoy? Anybody thought about offhanding a Kard (lvl 68: DMG: 25 DLY: 190 CHR+5)?

[chichicha]

i'm NOT in any endgame shell.
so i am just using gears in exp pt.
there is still space for me to improve my gears -

main -martial knife
off - heart snatcher or b.knife+1
ranged - tiphia sting/mamoolbane (if i need to pull)
head - pather hat/ optical hat
neck - peacoc amulet
earring - brutal earring/ suppa
body - sh+1 (acc+12) > pln, if atk needed, AJ
hands - merman's hand, if acc needed, pln hands
rings - rajas and spinel (haven't finished ToA ring)
back - amemet +1
waist - potent belt
legs - pln legs, i prefer to have denali legs, but haven't got luck yet
feet - pln feets wins all ! so far...

used these gear in exp burn pt, chain 33 so far, could be higher, if ... no 3 or more birds link LOL
(poor bard)

re - violent flourish - seems to be good idea. I spam VF quite a lot too.

cheers!

[Mikayla]

Main/Sub - Behemoth Knife/Behemoth Knife (Looking to get an Adder Jamb. and +1 Behe)
Ranged - Tiphia Sting
Head - W. Turban (Voyager for WS)
Neck - Love Torque
Earrings - Suppa/Brutal
Body - Pahluwan (Blue Cotehardie for WS)
Hands - Dusk
Rings - Jaeger/Rajas (Spinel/Rajas for WS, need Thunder or Flame)
Back - Amemet+1 (Cerb+1 or Forager's, do want. ;;)
Waist - Potent Belt (Too lazy atm for Swift/Speed)
Legs - Denali Kecks
Feet - Tabin Boots+1 (Still need Dusk, Savage Gaiters for WS)

Needs some improvement tbh, it's almost a half assed haste setup because I'm missing a few pieces, but I have literally little to no accuracy issues. Open to suggestions though, if something is glaringly wrong with the setup that I'm just not noticing. Still have some upgrades to do, even above and beyond what's been listed (Denali Head, Feet, Pixie, etc).

Also, just to back up what's been said, it definetly seems like having Stutter up increases the chance of Violent stunning the target. Another DNC and I did a test with Stutter step too, to see if having it up raised Drain Samba's additional effect, but we never saw anything conclusive (Sorry if anything like that was already mentioned somewhere in the thread).

[chichicha]

i am thinking tabin body+1 might be > blue ...
but depends on what ws you are doing most.

i did dancing edge, while chr mod 50% and dex mod 30%.
blue has chr-5 or 6 ? while dex up. idk ...

you do have pimp gears.
i didn't bother getting dusk gloves and feets, coz i am still poor on getting my skadi gears for my main thief job XD

[Mikayla]

i am thinking tabin body+1 might be > blue ...
but depends on what ws you are doing most.

i did dancing edge, while chr mod 50% and dex mod 30%.
blue has chr-5 or 6 ? while dex up. idk ...

you do have pimp gears.
i didn't bother getting dusk gloves and feets, coz i am still poor on getting my skadi gears for my main thief job XD

I have full Skadi, and I'm still banging my head on my desk on a daily basis because DNC can't use it.

[Lucavi]

I have full Skadi, and I'm still banging my head on my desk on a daily basis because DNC can't use it.

Saying the same about homam. It looks custom-made for dancers. :cry:

[Mikayla]

I have full Skadi, and I'm still banging my head on my desk on a daily basis because DNC can't use it.

Saying the same about homam. It looks custom-made for dancers. :cry:

Either one would be nice. D:

[Vic]

Lets petition to SE to give us dncs homam!!!

[Max™]

>.>

I'm probably the only Dnc who doesn't want to be put on the Homam job list, I have nothing to go after in Limbus, haven't done it aside from assisting a friends shell with Ultima in half a year, and would hate to have to get in line for Homam, only having one job that could/would use it.

[Lucavi]

Lets petition to SE to give us dncs homam!!!

[Ahnuld]

Lets petition to SE to give us dncs homam & skadi!!!
Fix'd.

[Tomiko]

Lets petition to SE to give us dncs homam & skadi!!!
Fix'd.

[Almalexia]

Lets petition to SE to give us dncs homam & skadi & usukane!!!
Fix'd.
:-"

[Max™]

Lets petition to SE to give us dncs a knife like Blau Dolch, and Scirroco.
Fix'd.
:-"

:lol:

[kenshyn]

Curious anyone use /thf in a xp party with dagger belt?? I am level 41 and was thinking since so many of my parties have 2-3 dncs in it as of late having sneak attack could help with damage output combined with reverse flourish I could almost always pump out two or more sneak attack ws a fight at this level.

[Xanthe]

Curious anyone use /thf in a xp party with dagger belt?? I am level 41 and was thinking since so many of my parties have 2-3 dncs in it as of late having sneak attack could help with damage output combined with reverse flourish I could almost always pump out two or more sneak attack ws a fight at this level.
Going /NIN with Tilt belt would be better imo.

[kenshyn]

Did that damage sucked on Crawlers viper bite was doing 53ish damage alone tho not sure how much damage a well placed sneak attack viper bite could do every minute or so to help on damage. I am going to try it out next time I am in a multiple dancer party and see if it's of any use. The good thing tho was I was able to skill chain with a Ninja and had 3 scholars all magic burst was pretty fun.

[archibaldcrane]

With your 15 WDMG Federation Kukri it's impossible to do more than 72 damage with SAViperBite with /thf on a piercing-neutral mob. The only thing that makes Viper Bite good is the huge WDMG boost that mainjob thief gets from SATA.

[chichicha]

Did that damage sucked on Crawlers viper bite was doing 53ish damage alone tho not sure how much damage a well placed sneak attack viper bite could do every minute or so to help on damage. I am going to try it out next time I am in a multiple dancer party and see if it's of any use. The good thing tho was I was able to skill chain with a Ninja and had 3 scholars all magic burst was pretty fun.

Back to that level, i spammed gust slash, until i have cyclone. i don't use SB because i know how it's like... when it went with SATA. :p

ps. don't really care with link, if I spammed Cyclone :p give blm some work to do, to avoid him over nuking and get hate :lol:

[Vyloan]

dancer stuff

No comment on dancer stuff since mine is 1, but your avatar is awesome.

[blister1]

Here's a small question for some of you higher leveled DNCs:

I partied with a Lv75 DNC last night, and he was talking about how Stutter Step improves the stun resist rate of Violent Flourish since the stun is magical based. So is Violent Flourish a weak melee attack that has a magic based stun attached to it, therefore making Stutter Step better to use than Quick Step if you wanted Violent Flourish's stun effect to proc? Does the same apply to Desperate Flourish's Gravity effect?

Violent Flourish can have 3 outcomes: Miss, hit without stun proc, hit with stun proc.

Wizerd uses Violent Flourish, but misses the Worker Crawler.

Wizerd uses Violent Flourish.
The Worker Crawler takes 22 damage.

Wizerd uses Violent Flourish.
The Worker Crawler takes 22 damage and is stunned.

The physical hit effect seems to be based on accuracy, while the stun effect seems to be based on magic resistance, as you and that lv75 DNC suggested. I've definitely noticed more stuns on mobs with Stutter on as opposed to mobs I've been spamming with Quickstep or Box Step.

Desperate Flourish also has 3 outcomes; however, they're a little different:

Wizerd uses Desperate Flourish, but misses the Worker Crawler.

Wizerd uses Desperate Flourish.
The Worker Crawler is weighed down.

Wizerd uses Desperate Flourish.
No effect on the Worker Crawler.

This one is strictly based on accuracy, and while it says it's inaccurate, it's actually quite accurate when you haev the appropriate accuracy. If you use an A- or A+ weapon on a main job and use this one, it'll hit a solid 95% of the time on anything around Even Match or lower. I'd say it's on level with Slugwinder, but I don't have RNG leveled so I can't comment on that for sure. :P

I've used Desperate Flourish about 6 times since I got it and received no message at all and I know acc sure as hell isn't the issue. I'll chalk it up to some craptastic luck I guess.

[lost071]

Honestly I don't care if SE gives us access to any better daggers. Our job isn't about DDing so why is everyone crying that we doing have any good DD daggers? I'm assuming we're going to get a nyzule isle dagger soon which will give us access to a relic weapon eventually, which hopefully greatly benefits us.

[Shadowhusky]

Honestly I don't care if SE gives us access to any better daggers. Our job isn't about DDing so why is everyone crying that we doing have any good DD daggers? I'm assuming we're going to get a nyzule isle dagger soon which will give us access to a relic weapon eventually, which hopefully greatly benefits us.

Well let's see...Lower delay daggers (Which some of the better daggers dancer doesn't get) add more TP, so we can use more dances. Second, not hitting for zero, feeding the mob TP, etc.

[eva00r]

Is it worth to use Joytoy as off-hand ? I've 8 merited in sword and 5 skills from suppa tho.

[Wizerd]

I've used Desperate Flourish about 6 times since I got it and received no message at all and I know acc sure as hell isn't the issue. I'll chalk it up to some craptastic luck I guess.

When you're using it on exp mobs it's not going to be very accurate, especially at that level. However, when I got it, I was landing it about 1/3 of the time on VT-low IT mobs - not too bad considering it's supposed to be inaccurate.

Now, on IT+ mobs, I tend to land it about half the time I'd say, and I still don't have PCC due to lack of funds. However, using it subbed on a main job, where accuracy is pretty much capped on anything Tough or lower, I've had at least a 90%+ land rate. Can't chalk that up to CHR, because I was landing it just fine on MNK and NIN. <_<

[Koyangi]

Is it worth to use Joytoy as off-hand ? I've 8 merited in sword and 5 skills from suppa tho.
Yes, I mainhand Behemoth Knife +1 and offhand Joyeuse, works very well with the merits to back it up.

@71:
Main/off: Behem.+1/Joy
Head: Ohat
Neck: Chiv
Ear1/2: Fenrir Earring/parry earring(suppa next lvl)
Body: SH+1(will probably use P. Body next lvl)
Hands: Battle Gloves
Rings: Rajas/Ulithulama's
Back: Forager's
Waist: swift belt
Legs: Prince's Slops
Feet: Mithra rse
Ranged: the rare chance i'm puller i'll wear IS boomerang, otherwise Orphic Egg since I'm always with a BRD :P

later on with funds will most likely get dusk hands and feet, waiting for 75 to use Denali Feet, Walahra Turban, and Brutal earring

acc has not been an issue up to this point and joyeuse is awesome for the TP gain.

[Shadowhusky]

So I haven't seen this posted...But I was messing around with curing waltz with my friend. And apparently once you start the dance, there doesn't seem to be a drop off range for the cure to take affect. I've had my friend be pretty far off from me and it still went off without any problems.

[Max™]

So I haven't seen this posted...But I was messing around with curing waltz with my friend. And apparently once you start the dance, there doesn't seem to be a drop off range for the cure to take affect. I've had my friend be pretty far off from me and it still went off without any problems.

The cure takes effect instantly, you can start the cure then interrupt the animation with something else instantly (voke, samba, step, etc) but it does have a HUGE range.

When we were doing Despot, I was healing the Thf as he ran in (he was Thf/Rng so he could WS for NM's earlier) and I could peg him just after he showed up on my screen.

[Xanthe]

So I haven't seen this posted...But I was messing around with curing waltz with my friend. And apparently once you start the dance, there doesn't seem to be a drop off range for the cure to take affect. I've had my friend be pretty far off from me and it still went off without any problems.

The cure takes effect instantly, you can start the cure then interrupt the animation with something else instantly (voke, samba, step, etc) but it does have a HUGE range.

When we were doing Despot, I was healing the Thf as he ran in (he was Thf/Rng so he could WS for NM's earlier) and I could peg him just after he showed up on my screen.
In my experience the range is the same as any spell; roughly 20.4 depending on terrain.

[Max™]

So I haven't seen this posted...But I was messing around with curing waltz with my friend. And apparently once you start the dance, there doesn't seem to be a drop off range for the cure to take affect. I've had my friend be pretty far off from me and it still went off without any problems.

The cure takes effect instantly, you can start the cure then interrupt the animation with something else instantly (voke, samba, step, etc) but it does have a HUGE range.

When we were doing Despot, I was healing the Thf as he ran in (he was Thf/Rng so he could WS for NM's earlier) and I could peg him just after he showed up on my screen.
In my experience the range is the same as any spell; roughly 20.4 depending on terrain.

Well, this needs some more testing, because while I haven't been spamming cure a lot lately, I don't remember being able to cure people just after they became visible on my screen.

[Wizerd]

Curing Waltz range is 25', same as Healing Waltz range, it's been posted like 4 times in this thread alone lol.

[VZX]

So I haven't seen this posted...But I was messing around with curing waltz with my friend. And apparently once you start the dance, there doesn't seem to be a drop off range for the cure to take affect. I've had my friend be pretty far off from me and it still went off without any problems.
Well, we know the rule "All JAs are instant". Hence you get the result immediately, heck, I often get my samba, step, flourish, and utsu overlap each other with 1s interval each

[orson]

Has anyone found a cap on Curing Waltzes? Been thinking about War/Dnc and macroing in Koenig and other things Curing Waltz II could hit around 250+ pretty easily. Not like full Koenig is easy to get but still kinda interesting if there isn't a cap.

[Cylo]

Cyclone rocks at 200+ tp. Well, at least it beats the hell out of lolGustSlash.

[Wizerd]

Has anyone found a cap on Curing Waltzes? Been thinking about War/Dnc and macroing in Koenig and other things Curing Waltz II could hit around 250+ pretty easily. Not like full Koenig is easy to get but still kinda interesting if there isn't a cap.

There doesn't appear to be a cap at all. I did BRD/DNC with full CHR gear and etudes and it still followed my formula to the letter.

White Mage gets Aristocrats and Light Staff for +22% Curing Potency, plus theirs is affected by weather and day, so there's no reason ours would be capped.

[Max™]

Just had to say, War/Dnc with Gaxe rocks, the Str is about the same as War/Thf, Acc bonus, TP gain is easy, and as was pointed out, Koenig rocks for it, doubly so for self curing, making quite an interesting alternative Tank.

War/Dnc with Fortitude Axe would be REALLY hard to kill by something that couldn't potentially one shot you.

[eva00r]

How much could you cure from war/dnc ?

[Atma]

Just a couple thoughts on Dancer:

Leveling Paladin atm, and since the expansions release I've had a DNC in just about every other party, it definitely seems to be the the more popular of the two jobs. But the thing is, a good number of those Dancers used Drain Samba religiously (Never mind Aspir Samba when fighting beetles with no rdm) claiming that it "kills the mob faster". I would tell them of their mistake, and they would often get offended that I would imply that they do not know how a staple job ability works on a job they've taken to 50... and continue to use Drain Samba for the rest of the party.

Based on my own observation and testing as DNC5 and the fact that it's been well-established knowledge in this thread since page 12, a hit that does 10 damage and drains 5 hp only does 10 damage to the mob and does NOT kill it faster. I guess it would be easy to assume otherwise, because it is drain, but think about it; Drain Samba II subbed could potentially give you +50% damage to the mob as well as keeping you alive and healthy. That would probably blow Berserk out of the water or pretty much any other subbed ability that would enhance your damage.

Yes yes, it's a new job so common knowledge is spread thin, it's not the job that's bad it's the person, etc. But still. Not too much respect for DNC atm.

[orson]

How much could you cure from war/dnc ?

My estimations with full Koenig and a few other smart choices you could hit about 270+ Curing Waltz II. Pld could probably do more but without DA their TP gain wouldn't be as fast as a War/Dnc with Fort. Axe. Eight secs is a long time for a melee Fort. Axe with a good build could probably easily get 35 TP in a short time.

[Mikayla]

Just a couple thoughts on Dancer:

Leveling Paladin atm, and since the expansions release I've had a DNC in just about every other party, it definitely seems to be the the more popular of the two jobs. But the thing is, a good number of those Dancers used Drain Samba religiously (Never mind Aspir Samba when fighting beetles with no rdm) claiming that it "kills the mob faster". I would tell them of their mistake, and they would often get offended that I would imply that they do not know how a staple job ability works on a job they've taken to 50... and continue to use Drain Samba for the rest of the party.

Based on my own observation and testing as DNC5 and the fact that it's been well-established knowledge in this thread since page 12, a hit that does 10 damage and drains 5 hp only does 10 damage to the mob and does NOT kill it faster. I guess it would be easy to assume otherwise, because it is drain, but think about it; Drain Samba II subbed could potentially give you +50% damage to the mob as well as keeping you alive and healthy. That would probably blow Berserk out of the water or pretty much any other subbed ability that would enhance your damage.

Yes yes, it's a new job so common knowledge is spread thin, it's not the job that's bad it's the person, etc. But still. Not too much respect for DNC atm.

It's common knowledge, and some people are just idiots. That's just how it goes sometimes.

[Godlywargod]

How much could you cure from war/dnc ?

My estimations with full Koenig and a few other smart choices you could hit about 270+ Curing Waltz II. Pld could probably do more but without DA their TP gain wouldn't be as fast as a War/Dnc with Fort. Axe. Eight secs is a long time for a melee Fort. Axe with a good build could probably easily get 35 TP in a short time.

Joytoy?

[Max™]

Eh, I wouldn't single wield Joyeuse when I could use Fort Axe.

Double/Triple Attack, 14 TP per hit, maybe a Ridill if I had it, but it would still take longer to hit 35 TP.

Fort Axe could have that in one round, Ridill would take at least three, assuming two triples.

[Toth]

I'm loving the DD improvements DNCs get as they hit 61 (or earlier with merits). My party last night was PLD DNC DNC SCH COR RNG on Colibris. Complete ownage. DNCs got off 400-600 Dancing Edges, with several over 700. They always got their TP up quickly with Flourish and melee hits, meaning healing was never a problem (I essentially back up healed as SCH) and the exp flew by as the birds went down super fast (we were at 10k/hr easy). Having partied with DNCs now for 60 levels, I am amazed how versatile they are and continue to be :elmer:

[Vigion]

Agreed Toth, and it should only get better. With decent AF, merits and DNC only equip. Regain???????

[Godlywargod]

Eh, I wouldn't single wield Joyeuse when I could use Fort Axe.

Double/Triple Attack, 14 TP per hit, maybe a Ridill if I had it, but it would still take longer to hit 35 TP.

Fort Axe could have that in one round, Ridill would take at least three, assuming two triples.

I meant for pld >.>

[Max™]

Eh, I wouldn't single wield Joyeuse when I could use Fort Axe.

Double/Triple Attack, 14 TP per hit, maybe a Ridill if I had it, but it would still take longer to hit 35 TP.

Fort Axe could have that in one round, Ridill would take at least three, assuming two triples.

I meant for pld >.>

My mistake, but Pld doesn't have as much Tp problem, besides Joytoy/Brutal, you get TP from shield blocks, right? Yeah, Pld/Dnc is pretty wicked, especially given the high ass Chr and Vit.

[Lucavi]

Pld/dnc is my new solo toy of choice, and having spectral jig just makes it alllllllllllll the sweeter. :ashira:

[Falisa]

To other fellow dancers, do you think it would be worth it to invest in a full CHR+ setup at 75 for waltzs? Im looking into all the gear DNC can wear at the moment lol

[Maxxthepenguin]

To other fellow dancers, do you think it would be worth it to invest in a full CHR+ setup at 75 for waltzs? Im looking into all the gear DNC can wear at the moment lol

I'd go for whatever is cost efficient but not bother with things that cost way too much. Like angel's rings but not heaven's rings.

[Max™]

For soloing and whatnot, the min-maxer in me was thinking about it.

Then, since I'm usually just using /Dnc to tank in Campaign, I just started macroing in Enmity and Vit (since War AF body+Warwolf belt covers both) for my self CWII macro.

Swapping in Chr and Vit (whichever you can get the most of, they both help the same for curing yourself) helps a good amount.

Going from 190 to 205 Cured isn't huge, but it's nice when you're dealing with limited Tp.

If I was main healing, I'd definitely have a full on +Chr swap, and it's why I was wanting to get a Kard, Chr +5 on a knife is pretty cool.

[Falisa]

Well looking it up and not having access to a 75 Dancer's VIT and CHR stats and no Cure Waltz IV fomula, I put together a CHR setup that included easy to get/cheap items (Jester's +1, Corsette +1, angel rings and a few other items) that added up to around +40 CHR, it went from 371 HP cured with Cure Waltz III, to 405 HP cured. So I guess for me since I have most of the CHR items already thanks to BRD, it could be worthwhile to carry around some items. :o

[Max™]

I'd call 36 Extra HP worth while. O.o

[miokomioko]

Well looking it up and not having access to a 75 Dancer's VIT and CHR stats and no Cure Waltz IV fomula, I put together a CHR setup that included easy to get/cheap items (Jester's +1, Corsette +1, angel rings and a few other items) that added up to around +40 CHR, it went from 371 HP cured with Cure Waltz III, to 405 HP cured. So I guess for me since I have most of the CHR items already thanks to BRD, it could be worthwhile to carry around some items. :o

How did you get Jester's Cape +1 to say "DNC" on it?

[Max™]

Well looking it up and not having access to a 75 Dancer's VIT and CHR stats and no Cure Waltz IV fomula, I put together a CHR setup that included easy to get/cheap items (Jester's +1, Corsette +1, angel rings and a few other items) that added up to around +40 CHR, it went from 371 HP cured with Cure Waltz III, to 405 HP cured. So I guess for me since I have most of the CHR items already thanks to BRD, it could be worthwhile to carry around some items. :o

How did you get Jester's Cape +1 to say "DNC" on it?

<Magic>

[Falisa]

I didnt look it up lol I thoght it was all jobs :\

[miokomioko]

I had mad a similar assumption that a lot of my existing Bard gear as well as Puppetmaster gear would come in handy when I decided to take the holy trinity of gay entertainer jobs to 75. Turns out most endgame Bard gear is pretty specific to Bards, and that all I had some some accuracy shit from Puppetmaster... *sigh* Hand-to-hand merits came in handy until about 10 levels ago... now it's time to merit dagger...

[Mikayla]

I keep a couple items around for Waltzes for +CHR (Panther Mask, etc), but to be honest, I don't see a striking need to carry around a full +CHR build for Waltzes.

[Maxxthepenguin]

I would think that a Waltz build would be more worthwhile than a WS build >_>

[Nyiri]

To other fellow dancers, do you think it would be worth it to invest in a full CHR+ setup at 75 for waltzs? Im looking into all the gear DNC can wear at the moment lol

Personally, I don't bother with CHR in XP parties. I find myself typically overflowing with TP, either capping off at 300% and overcuring just for the heck of it, or spamming Dancing Edge to keep that from happening. Given that, I don't really feel it worth the trouble to carry a CHR set to macro in to squeeze a handful of extra HP out of each cure. I especially can't bring myself to choose Kard's D25 Del190 CHR+5 over a Behemoth's Knife +1's D32 Del201 HP+30 Atk+10, since that's one of the few slots I couldn't freely swap about... that's not really that big a difference on the cures. If anything, I'd consider the difference in delay to be the primary advantage Kard has over Behemoth Knife+1.

[VZX]

Currently lv 51 now with 5.1k tnl. Where do you guys suggest to level =.=
Quicksand caves definitely too low for 6man PT, I don't wanna see 0 damage either on kuftal

[Wizerd]

Currently lv 51 now with 5.1k tnl. Where do you guys suggest to level =.=
Quicksand caves definitely too low for 6man PT, I don't wanna see 0 damage either on kuftal

My damage was fine in Kuftal, but if you stick around Quicksands, they are good until someone hits 53 provided you roam and treat it like a merit party. A better idea though, is if you have a PL, go to Gustav and kill the leech pets for a couple levels (until ~53). It bridged the gap nicely on my WAR, but I kill them quick. :P

[VZX]

Currently lv 51 now with 5.1k tnl. Where do you guys suggest to level =.=
Quicksand caves definitely too low for 6man PT, I don't wanna see 0 damage either on kuftal

My damage was fine in Kuftal, but if you stick around Quicksands, they are good until someone hits 53 provided you roam and treat it like a merit party. A better idea though, is if you have a PL, go to Gustav and kill the leech pets for a couple levels (until ~53). It bridged the gap nicely on my WAR, but I kill them quick. :P
I see... so are these leeches on Wyvernpoacher spawn place?

[Wizerd]

Currently lv 51 now with 5.1k tnl. Where do you guys suggest to level =.=
Quicksand caves definitely too low for 6man PT, I don't wanna see 0 damage either on kuftal

My damage was fine in Kuftal, but if you stick around Quicksands, they are good until someone hits 53 provided you roam and treat it like a merit party. A better idea though, is if you have a PL, go to Gustav and kill the leech pets for a couple levels (until ~53). It bridged the gap nicely on my WAR, but I kill them quick. :P
I see... so are these leeches on Wyvernpoacher spawn place?
Yep. Their level range is 53-55, so at 51 you get the most exp out of it (more than lv50, because lv50 has exp capped at 200). I was getting chain 6 consistently because there were 2 goblins there, and there's usually 2-3 in pulling range. As DNC I would assume you could get chain 5, maybe 4.

[chichicha]

Currently lv 51 now with 5.1k tnl. Where do you guys suggest to level =.=
Quicksand caves definitely too low for 6man PT, I don't wanna see 0 damage either on kuftal

My damage was fine in Kuftal, but if you stick around Quicksands, they are good until someone hits 53 provided you roam and treat it like a merit party. A better idea though, is if you have a PL, go to Gustav and kill the leech pets for a couple levels (until ~53). It bridged the gap nicely on my WAR, but I kill them quick. :P
I see... so are these leeches on Wyvernpoacher spawn place?
Yep. Their level range is 53-55, so at 51 you get the most exp out of it (more than lv50, because lv50 has exp capped at 200). I was getting chain 6 consistently because there were 2 goblins there, and there's usually 2-3 in pulling range. As DNC I would assume you could get chain 5, maybe 4.

if you have Dispel-er, go Knight Crawlers ! I personally like that camp, not many disturb (i.e. not many ppl there) + can kill one or two scorpion for chains while waiting for repop. I leveled 50-51 on Helm Beetles (with Quicksteps, it's fine on hitting them with decent Melees (if they eat sushi...)) and 51-56 on Knight Crawlers (Dispel-er is really needed)

Btw, base stat - I didn't merit any stat at all, nor HP or MP.
DNC 75 Tarutaru (I meant it... no subjob)

HP - 780
MP - 0 (of course)
STR - 50
DEX - 59
VIT - 50
AGI - 64
INT - 57
MND - 47
CHR - 61

Apparently, AGI is highest. Prolly because I am tarutaru...

oh, btw, I didn't carry any CHR gears to swap for CW4. Usually my CW4 make around 560-610. Of course, depends on receiver VITs, which I am still happy with. It's good enough for emergency cure for ppl to survive. Plus, I don't usually invited and asked to be main heal. Again, 2 DNC could possibly Main Heal, but single DNC, no thanks. :p

[VZX]

if you have Dispel-er, go Knight Crawlers ! I personally like that camp, not many disturb (i.e. not many ppl there) + can kill one or two scorpion for chains while waiting for repop. I leveled 50-51 on Helm Beetles (with Quicksteps, it's fine on hitting them with decent Melees (if they eat sushi...)) and 51-56 on Knight Crawlers (Dispel-er is really needed)
Is this the camp North to Rumble Crawler?

[Damane]

I am still confused why SE didnt add DNC to skadi gear set and SCH to morrigan gear set

[Koyangi]

imo DNC looks more prone to the Usukane set, no job currently can equip a movement enhancing piece of gear* that can also enhance it's speed through use of a JA/spell. The Usu set has the right blend of haste acc and evasion to go with what the job could use and take advantage of. Though Homam seems like a no brainer and DNC could greatly benefit from it, SE needs to seriously reconsider us for that line of armor. The Denali set has like 2 mediocre pieces at best for most utility, furthermore blu have access to great sets, and especially, they came out already able to equip Homam so they didnt look extremely cookiecutter with SH(+1) at 75 like DNC is atm.


*not including things like sprinters shoes and aketons, but items that provide bonus 100% of the time.

[Gergall]

imo DNC looks more prone to the Usukane set, no job currently can equip a movement enhancing piece of gear* that can also enhance it's speed through use of a JA/spell.

Before DNC, the 2 jobs with JA/spell to enhance movement speed were THF + BRD, and one of them can wear Skadi already.

[Koyangi]

imo DNC looks more prone to the Usukane set, no job currently can equip a movement enhancing piece of gear* that can also enhance it's speed through use of a JA/spell.

Before DNC, the 2 jobs with JA/spell to enhance movement speed were THF + BRD, and one of them can wear Skadi already.
Skadi feet wont stack with flee, and flee isnt able to be on 100% of the time, I was referring to how no job can stack a self ja/spell with a gear it can equip as far as gear that can provide that bonus 100% of the time is concerned.

[Gergall]

imo DNC looks more prone to the Usukane set, no job currently can equip a movement enhancing piece of gear* that can also enhance it's speed through use of a JA/spell.

Before DNC, the 2 jobs with JA/spell to enhance movement speed were THF + BRD, and one of them can wear Skadi already.
Skadi feet wont stack with flee, and flee isnt able to be on 100% of the time, I was referring to how no job can stack a self ja/spell with a gear it can equip as far as gear that can provide that bonus 100% of the time is concerned.

Okay, that's fine, but if THF doesn't count then the only job we're talking about is Bard right? Not exactly a huge sample size that can be used to determine what SE will and will not do.

Also, many jobs can combine +movement gear with /BRD for Raptor Mazurka.

I'm not normally a jerk, but I'm working on Christmas Eve.

[Lucavi]

All I want for Christmas is my homam on Dnc. :(

Give it to me, SE! You can't resist these eyes! :ashira:

[Koyangi]

You are trying to defend a point I'm not even talking about, this is about main jobs that can move fast with gear are the 1's that don't have a JA/spell to enhance speed(that is stackable) and vice versa, items I'm referring to are Herald's Gaiters, Crimson/Blood Cuisses, Ninja Kyahan(+1), Skadi's Jambeaux, and Trotter/Strider Boots(these effects are always on and arent dependant on type of zone/engaged in battle etc, slight exception is ninja feet which is on full effect but for only half a day). Only 2 job's without a JA/spell and equipment for movement is WAR and SAM. SE so far has kept it this way, and that's why I'm basing that DNC wouldn't get Skadi.

[BRP]

Spoiler: DNC is more likely to get Nashira gear rather than Homam.

[Ahnuld]

Based on the stats alone one might say Nashira fits SCH nicely as Homam would best fit DNC.

[miokomioko]

Must I remind thee of Puppetmaster and the lovely equipment sets they decided to stamp "PUP" on?

Don't get your hopes up. Not to mention they never once decided to put "PUP" on any sets that didn't have it from the day the job was implimented. I wouldn't expect any high-level sets to be adjusted to be equipped by Dancer aside from ones that aren't in the game yet.

Edit: I don't think they added "COR" or "BLU" to any other gear sets from that day either. In fact, has SE ever added jobs to any existing equipment after the day the job was implimented?

[Lucavi]

All we can hope for then is some decent new gear for dancer that we don't have to jump through flaming hoops to aquire. I'm hoping it'll be something campaign-related instead of the usual "lost relics of some ancient gear located in some hidden, ancient place guarded by some hidden, ancient evil monsters -- oh, by the way, they also scattered parts of the pieces of the chunks of the fragments of the segments of the individual parts of the armor... good luck finding them all" drivel they keep launching at us.

I realize that SE is pulling out all the stops trying to find ways to drain gil from the economy, but this is going a little too far. Not everyone is made of constant millions; even ones of us that are in the end-game scene.

[Gobo]

In fact, has SE ever added jobs to any existing equipment after the day the job was implimented?

COR to Shikaree Aketon and BLU/PUP to Cerise Doublet on the Oct. 19th '06 update. Other than that, I don't think so, though I could be wrong. Same thing will probably happen to DNC and SCH in due time (SCH on Glamor Jupon? DNC on Rapparee Harness?).

[Almalexia]

edit: edit: Okay, here we go:

I'm thinking about why SE slapped the new jobs on Nyzul armor and Assault armor, but Salvage/Einherjar armor was left untouched. Furthermore, why only some TAU armor for Dancer and Scholar, but none from Limbus, sky and old abjuration?

I believe SE wants to avoid creating great competition for future armor and thus refrains from adding the new jobs to seemingly appropriate, existing armor sets. As we know, SE is fond of sidegrades and situational shit. If they put, say, SCH into Zenith/Shadow/Morrigan/Nashira, the new high-level equipment in WotG may be easily ignored because whatever they add may not be marginally better (more situational?) than whatever we could already have.

We say they added BLU to Nashira and Homam and Crimson when the job appeared, and wonder why there's so much favor for BLU. Perhaps their explanation for the BLU case lies in the variability of BLU itself. The variety of armor caters to different playstyles of BLU: Nashira has haste and M.Acc, Homam has HP/MP haste and accuracy, Crimson HP/MP and stats. They could also make a similar argument for WAR who seems to get equipment from everywhere, too.

However, given what SCH does, you cannot look at Nashira and say that it's not a perfect fit for the job... it's so cruel to not add it unless they're making a WotG Nashira +1. :?

[Lordwafik]

However, given what SCH does, you cannot look at Nashira and say that it's not a perfect fit for the job... it's so cruel to not add it unless they're making a WotG Nashira +1. :?

Given what SCH does, I'm super cereal surprised at the fact SCH isn't getting morrigan.

Who cares about "Future competition", at this point of the game a large majority of people are levelling these as job #3/4/5/6/7 etc. They're naiive to think otherwise, and it's truly a waste of my old gear that I have to not be thrown onto the jobs.

[Damane]

Must I remind thee of Puppetmaster and the lovely equipment sets they decided to stamp "PUP" on?

Don't get your hopes up. Not to mention they never once decided to put "PUP" on any sets that didn't have it from the day the job was implimented. I wouldn't expect any high-level sets to be adjusted to be equipped by Dancer aside from ones that aren't in the game yet.

Edit: I don't think they added "COR" or "BLU" to any other gear sets from that day either. In fact, has SE ever added jobs to any existing equipment after the day the job was implimented?

which is basicly very wrong from SE... COR + PUP are left out on homam or kirin set. I mean common they could give us either one of the sets to play around with since every other melee/tank job can pick one of the 2 sets.


imo DNC looks more prone to the Usukane set, no job currently can equip a movement enhancing piece of gear* that can also enhance it's speed through use of a JA/spell. The Usu set has the right blend of haste acc and evasion to go with what the job could use and take advantage of. Though Homam seems like a no brainer and DNC could greatly benefit from it, SE needs to seriously reconsider us for that line of armor. The Denali set has like 2 mediocre pieces at best for most utility, furthermore blu have access to great sets, and especially, they came out already able to equip Homam so they didnt look extremely cookiecutter with SH(+1) at 75 like DNC is atm.


*not including things like sprinters shoes and aketons, but items that provide bonus 100% of the time.

I think skadi gear fits more for the added CHR it has to affect your cureing waltzes.

[VZX]

Must I remind thee of Puppetmaster and the lovely equipment sets they decided to stamp "PUP" on?

Don't get your hopes up. Not to mention they never once decided to put "PUP" on any sets that didn't have it from the day the job was implimented. I wouldn't expect any high-level sets to be adjusted to be equipped by Dancer aside from ones that aren't in the game yet.

Edit: I don't think they added "COR" or "BLU" to any other gear sets from that day either. In fact, has SE ever added jobs to any existing equipment after the day the job was implimented?
THF was not able to wield crossbows in the early day, same goes for BLU and chakram type of throwing weapon.

But I guess it's a different case when it comes to 'equipable armor'

[LD]

Possible =/= soon.

[Max™]

Well, if they were worried about applicable stats, Dnc should get Koenig.

+10 Chr and Vit on most bits +20 on Body.