Paladins OP? Not in my World of Warcraft

[Jas0n]

Ugh, I hate the new talents tree for prot paladin. Can't get pursuit of justice anymore (unless you sacrifice something that look much better). Ardent defender also got nerfed so badly it makes me sad (I loved that skill, especially doing old content solo). It feel like I was nerfed really badly >_>.

It was to be expected to be honest, Paladins have been overpowered all the way through wotlk, it's a nice change for them to be nerfed for once.

[Meko]

Paladins are the most OP class in the game imo. They really shined in the Wrath of the AOE King. I really dislike how all the fights are designed for big trash pulls and massive AOE. Paladins were created for that. I look at Paladins in WoW like I looked at Samurai in FFXI, they are both loved on nonstop by the devs.

[Tonko]

ROFL
Cuz trash packs matter? Only reason they do well there NOW is due to two piece T10, which has hardly been around all of Wrath.

Outside of Anub prior to the Holy Wrath Nerf, Ret Pallies have never been top DPS on boss fights. You bring one to a raid for buff synergy, and that's it. They are not OP by any stretch of the imagination.

Pallies have been nerfed almost every patch of this expansion, Burst damage nerfs, forbearance applying to self lay on hands, Avenging Wrath not within 30 seconds of forbearance, damage nerf while under Divine Shield, I could go on. They enjoyed a short stint at being OP in PvP when wrath first launched due to burst damage capabilities. They do not have that anymore.

[Eaglestrike]

Paladins are the most OP class in the game imo. They really shined in the Wrath of the AOE King. I really dislike how all the fights are designed for big trash pulls and massive AOE. Paladins were created for that. I look at Paladins in WoW like I looked at Samurai in FFXI, they are both loved on nonstop by the devs.

Vanilla: Cleanse bot, no matter what spec.

BC: Holy or you're useless!

WotLK: Best single target healer but still not useful for AOE heals.
Prot: 3.0=3rd best, 3.1= 3rd best, 3.2= Best-ish?, 3.3=2nd/3rd?
Ret: Never the top dps.

Yeah, Paladins have always been OP! And that's just the PvE side of things. How about PvP? S1-8: Holy only viable spec, you never win any tournaments, grats!

Yep, truly the samurai of WoW!

Rogue or Warrior is much, MUCH closer to "samurai of WoW" because they're always amazing in the 2nd half of any expansion.

[Jas0n]

ROFL
Cuz trash packs matter? Only reason they do well there NOW is due to two piece T10, which has hardly been around all of Wrath.

Outside of Anub prior to the Holy Wrath Nerf, Ret Pallies have never been top DPS on boss fights. You bring one to a raid for buff synergy, and that's it. They are not OP by any stretch of the imagination.

Pallies have been nerfed almost every patch of this expansion, Burst damage nerfs, forbearance applying to self lay on hands, Avenging Wrath not within 30 seconds of forbearance, damage nerf while under Divine Shield, I could go on. They enjoyed a short stint at being OP in PvP when wrath first launched due to burst damage capabilities. They do not have that anymore.

I wasn't really talking in a raiding environment, I mean the fact that they roflstomp rather easily in PvP, and that they're the only class that can grind low level instances by pulling the whole thing at once with no issues.

As for Retribution in PvE, it's sucked, but meh. Protection and Holy have still been up there in the powerful section though.

[Meko]

I was talking more about PvE. I couldn't care less about PvP. My point in all of that is they are the most OP across the board. When you look at a hybrid that can heal, tank or DPS, the druid can't touch them and they are as good as other classes in all other aspects (aside from maybe raid healing).

Tanking is a joke as a paladin. Throw Shield > Concecrate > Holy Shield > AFK
We have a ret pally in our 10 man group that tanks and he's almost always atop the DPS meters on most fights. Obviously as a melee, you are at a disadvantage for fights that require you to move but he still tears it up. We also have a holy pally that literally blows the roof off with healing. Maybe the pallies I play with are just better. I have a 71 paladin and tanking/threat is a joke compared to my bear that I have to work a lot harder at keeping threat. I actually quit my paladin because it was 'too simple' when it came to tanking/dpsing.

[Tonko]

Paladins have been overpowered all the way through wotlk, it's a nice change for them to be nerfed for once.

Backpedal more? They're not OP, they never have been. Sometimes balance changes go too far and they enjoy a brief stint at being effective, but it gets evened out. They do not roflstomp in PvP anymore, they haven't for over a year now.

Grinding a low level instance all at once alone can be done by Blood DKs, Feral Druid tanks, Warior prot tanks, and many other specs depending on the level and the instance. Most healers and frost mages for example do just fine. (lol holy nova spam) Not sure what grinding low level instances has to do with being OP.

Prot has never been the best tank in progression raiding, and Holy only excells at single target healing, again, not OP.

[Norellicus]

I have a 71 paladin and tanking/threat is a joke compared to my bear that I have to work a lot harder at keeping threat.

wat

[Tonko]

I was talking more about PvE. I couldn't care less about PvP. My point in all of that is they are the most OP across the board. When you look at a hybrid that can heal, tank or DPS, the druid can't touch them and they are as good as other classes in all other aspects (aside from maybe raid healing).

Druid feral tanks are amazing, probably the top choice for progression tanking, debatably tied with Warrior. Massive massive HP pool and armor are very appealing.

Resto Druids can single target heal almost as well as a holy paladin, and raid heal far better. Movement fights Resto druids blow holy paladins out of the water.

Balance druids and feral kitty druids both bring very appealing raid synergy to the table, much like a ret paladin. They don't top DPS, but they're not supposed to. Neither do ret paladins.

Tanking is a joke as a paladin. Throw Shield > Concecrate > Holy Shield > AFK
We have a ret pally in our 10 man group that tanks and he's almost always atop the DPS meters on most fights. Obviously as a melee, you are at a disadvantage for fights that require you to move but he still tears it up. We also have a holy pally that literally blows the roof off with healing. Maybe the pallies I play with are just better.

Yes, because your raid is an accurate and unbiased look at the entirety of the game. Perhaps your other DPSers and healers just suck, I don't know.

[Meko]

Druid feral tanks are amazing, probably the top choice for progression tanking, debatably tied with Warrior. Massive massive HP pool and armor are very appealing.

Resto Druids can single target heal almost as well as a holy paladin, and raid heal far better. Movement fights Resto druids blow holy paladins out of the water.

Balance druids and feral kitty druids both bring very appealing raid synergy to the table, much like a ret paladin. They don't top DPS, but they're not supposed to. Neither do ret paladins.



Yes, because your raid is an accurate and unbiased look at the entirety of the game. Perhaps your other DPSers and healers just suck, I don't know.

Of course that's the case. I've only raided and I never leveled a class or played one outside of a raid. Please disregard any of my ideas/opinions.

[Krye]

All 3 paladin specs are OP, the worst part is the complete lack of skill required to succeed. Plate armor combined with too many personal and team defensive cooldowns, stun that requires no set-up, infinite mana for all 3 specs. Holy stays max range spamming flash of light, ret/prot spam their insane damage instant attacks. I have 31K health with fortitude and 1300 resil and a dps paladin can almost kill me 1v1 in a stun. I pop pain suppression and he pops wings that cause his damage to bypass damage reduction abilities. "You're a priest, just mana burn him!" Yeah, good luck getting a single burn off on a paladin that doesn't have downs. Okay guess I'll try out shadow JK cleanse spam sacred cleansing proc oh look I'm OOM GG.

[Boyiee]

We have a ret pally in our 10 man group that tanks and he's almost always atop the DPS meters on most fights.

You are doing something wrong

We also have a holy pally that literally blows the roof off with healing. Maybe the pallies I play with are just better.

Yeah, on dreamwalker. That, or you & the rest of your group are less than mediocre. The first quote almost guarantees this.

[Jas0n]

All 3 paladin specs are OP, the worst part is the complete lack of skill required to succeed. Plate armor combined with too many personal and team defensive cooldowns, stun that requires no set-up, infinite mana for all 3 specs. Holy stays max range spamming flash of light, ret/prot spam their insane damage instant attacks. I have 31K health with fortitude and 1300 resil and a dps paladin can almost kill me 1v1 in a stun. I pop pain suppression and he pops wings that cause his damage to bypass damage reduction abilities. "You're a priest, just mana burn him!" Yeah, good luck getting a single burn off on a paladin that doesn't have downs. Okay guess I'll try out shadow JK cleanse spam sacred cleansing proc oh look I'm OOM GG.

I wouldn't say they require a lack of skill to succeed, I've seen some really skilled and some really unskilled paladins out there, there's a major difference. And as Tonko said, Holy Paladins are amazing at single target healing but not so much at raid-wide healing.

I guess it depends where you're looking at it from, and in PvP which class they're paired against. They're really OP in some circumstances, then suck in others.

[Meko]

You are doing something wrong



Yeah, on dreamwalker. That, or you & the rest of your group are less than mediocre. The first quote almost guarantees this.

You can? You can guarantee it? Our ret pally (he's our MT 99% of the time) is normally top 2 or 3 in our raids (10 man). He's very good and does a ton of DPS. We have a warrior that can't be touched who's all armor pen etc doing well over 10k DPS on just about every fight (not counting trash). Our holy paladin also does a ton of healing and does it very well. Maybe you are just rolling with bad paladins?

[Jas0n]

You can? You can guarantee it? Our ret pally (he's our MT 99% of the time) is normally top 2 or 3 in our raids (10 man). He's very good and does a ton of DPS. We have a warrior that can't be touched who's all armor pen etc doing well over 10k DPS on just about every fight (not counting trash). Our holy paladin also does a ton of healing and does it very well. Maybe you are just rolling with bad paladins?

It wouldn't surprise me, there are a lot of bad paladins out there. You get all the kids rolling them so they can feel like they own.

[Tonko]

Our holy paladin also does a ton of healing and does it very well. Maybe you are just rolling with bad paladins?

Maybe we're just rolling with other players of other classes who know what they're doing?

[Meko]

Maybe we're just rolling with other players of other classes who know what they're doing?

What are you basing this on? If person A does 10k DPS and person B does 9k DPS, person B doesn't know what they are doing? Can you clear up what you are talking about or are you just trying to be a jerk about it?

[Eaglestrike]

I was talking more about PvE. I couldn't care less about PvP. My point in all of that is they are the most OP across the board. When you look at a hybrid that can heal, tank or DPS, the druid can't touch them and they are as good as other classes in all other aspects (aside from maybe raid healing).

Tanking is a joke as a paladin. Throw Shield > Concecrate > Holy Shield > AFK
We have a ret pally in our 10 man group that tanks and he's almost always atop the DPS meters on most fights. Obviously as a melee, you are at a disadvantage for fights that require you to move but he still tears it up. We also have a holy pally that literally blows the roof off with healing. Maybe the pallies I play with are just better. I have a 71 paladin and tanking/threat is a joke compared to my bear that I have to work a lot harder at keeping threat. I actually quit my paladin because it was 'too simple' when it came to tanking/dpsing.

This is complete and total biased bullshit. Have you been paying attention at all this expansion?

Druid: Resto - One of the best raid healers every single patch, stack better than holy paladins.
Bear - 2nd best tank EVERY SINGLE PATCH. They have been above or on-par with paladins EVERY SINGLE PATCH except for 3.2 (ToC is serious fucking business)
Cat - As competitive dps-wise as ret just about every patch except maybe 3.0, had their moment of OPness in early Ulduar.
Moonkin - OK YOU GOT ME LOL

Druids are basically the sleeper class of the game. They've been pretty damn solid all expansion and NO ONE COMPLAINS ABOUT THEM whereas Paladins if they're even somewhat good at something they're bitched about endlessly. Just look at vanilla/BC, paladin is a near-useless class but everyone still bitched endlessly about bubble, their ONLY real move.

And bears are and always have been easier to play than paladin tanks. That's another aspect of community opinion that's just total garbage.

[Meko]

Druids can raid heal...better. That's a fair comparison. Paladins are just easy mode. The only people who say paladins are not easy or OP etc.....are those who play them.

Let's do a quick class run down.

1. Wears plate
2. Can heal themselves
3. Can stun
4. Can bubble
5. Can lay on hands
6. Can sleep
7. Can aoe
8. Can buff

Any other class that can do all of those things?

[Tonko]

What are you basing this on? If person A does 10k DPS and person B does 9k DPS, person B doesn't know what they are doing? Can you clear up what you are talking about or are you just trying to be a jerk about it?

Other classes do what paladins do better in almost every situation.

For instance; Ret Paladins do not have the DPS potential that other specs do. The math just isn't there. They can NOT compete with equally skilled and geared Warriors, Rogues and DKs. There are other specs that just can do more damage due to game mechanics. It's fantastic you have a talented ret paladin in your raid. I don't know if your other DPSers have no clue, or just aren't as well geared, or if he's just phenomenal. But it's not his class making him that way. You can't say "Person A does the most damage so his class must be OP" it's a logical fallacy.

Perfect rotations, specs, gear, gems, enchants, when it's all equal, Paladins are not on top for anything but single target healing.