Summoner / Scholar sort-of in-depth

[Seravi Edalborez]

I'd prefer crit over det; for SMN especially det's effect will be pretty minor on DoTs.

[Ratatapa]

What does SMN "BIS" look like now, without access to T5 gear? Or I guess an easier question is, what secondary stats does SMN want the most of? ACC (to cap) > Det > Crit > SpSp?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...der=true&gid=7

Might've changed a bit with the primal ACC

[Ferien]

Stupid question, does Crit apply to the DoT or just to the initial damage?

[Yukari]

Huh... I thought Crit's effects would be amortized a bit because the crits only happen on a single tick rather than throughout the whole spell. Eh, guess SMN can just poach my BLM gears then, since I was gearing mostly Crit on BLM. And you need how much acc to have your pet hit at 100%? Is it just that you don't get food accuracy on your pet or what?

[Seravi Edalborez]

Stupid question, does Crit apply to the DoT or just to the initial damage?

Every tick has a chance of critting for any one of the DoTs (or more/all of them).

[Ratatapa]

Stupid question, does Crit apply to the DoT or just to the initial damage?

Iirc Crit apply when you apply the dot

Aka if you have 500 Crit and you do Bio and after you apply bio you switch to 433 Crit, the bio will still count with the 500crit


If that makes sense for you

[Yukari]

Though admittedly, switching the amount of crit you have with an active Bio is really hard. Only way I can think of is if you casted the dot as an arcanist with internal release up, then had it wear, or something.

[Ratatapa]

Though admittedly, switching the amount of crit you have with an active Bio is really hard. Only way I can think of is if you casted the dot as an arcanist with internal release up, then had it wear, or something.

Or if food crit wears off


Numbers were just random

[Buttons]

3 MND beats out 13 Crit for base healing, and it's only giving you about 1% more crits on Adlo. Take the Allagan.

Thanks for the tip. ^^

[Lokus]

What does SMN "BIS" look like now, without access to T5 gear? Or I guess an easier question is, what secondary stats does SMN want the most of? ACC (to cap) > Det > Crit > SpSp?

We answered this question like 2 pages ago. >.>

Aside from Allagan Book, SMN doesn't need anything from T5.

Omnitome Set
Myth: Head - Body - Neck - Ring - Bracelets
Coil: Hands - Belt - Legs - Feet - Earring
Primal: Ring

Zenith/Allagan Book Set:

Myth: hat -> gloves/body -> neck/ring/bracers
Coil: legs/feet/belt
Primals: ring/earring

Edit: Word on the OF is that SE ninja patched accuracy for pets so 448~ acc isn't needed to 100% Garuda. If that's true, that changes things again.

[Buffy]

I'm not trolling.

This link: says that BIS sch feet for a crit build are turn 1 feet, allagan boots of healing.

Wouldn't Royal Shoes be better? That's CT. They have 3 less mind and 3 less vit, but +13 crit.

Is 3 mind that useful?

[Ferien]

I'm not trolling.

This link: says that BIS sch feet for a crit build are turn 1 feet, allagan boots of healing.

Wouldn't Royal Shoes be better? That's CT. They have 3 less mind and 3 less vit, but +13 crit.

Is 3 mind that useful?

This exact question was asked a page ago.

The answer is Yes.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Actually been discussing this recently, I don't know for certain if i90 feet beat them outright, and/or if the difference is minor enough to not really matter. At the moment I'm still leaning towards the MND being better but nothing really concrete on that.

[Ferien]

i90 feet will give a 0.13% higher return on Physick/Embrace and Succor, i80 feet will give a 0.376% higher return on Adlo based on Valk's calculator, using your SCH's stats (and, obviously, adjusting properly for crit). Real returns will depend on relative number of Adloquiums cast vs the other spells, including how often your fairy is casting Embrace. I think just including Embrace into the calculations brings the i90 out on top healing-wise, without even quantifying Spell Speed.

The extra VIT is icing.

[Lokus]

Turns out nothing was changed for SMN as far ACC needed to 100% Garuda in Coil, just a buggy parser misleading people. However, new info on DET is surfacing and it seems as if it's better for SMN than previously thought.

[Seravi Edalborez]

That would be interesting to read about. I kind of assumed that the amount of Det you need to bump up DoT damage would be a pretty high amount compared to like a straight up nuke, so Crit seemed more enticing.

[Sodalitas]

Turns out nothing was changed for SMN as far ACC needed to 100% Garuda in Coil, just a buggy parser misleading people. However, new info on DET is surfacing and it seems as if it's better for SMN than previously thought.

Do you have a link to this Determination info?

[Lokus]

Do you have a link to this Determination info?

It's basically piggy backing onto the work done by Valk and some other dude on the OF pinpointing the damage formula: Det Stuff

[Ratatapa]

Probably the best thing from the OF

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...d-Only-Edition

[T0rin]

It's basically piggy backing onto the work done by Valk and some other dude on the OF pinpointing the damage formula

New poster here... just wanted to say I'm the guy who wrote the linked work to show why DTR is better than CRT. Wanted to make an addendum to the people who might have read it, but are not keeping up with the thread.

Basically, yes, DTR is better than CRT, on a point to point basis. The damage formula math and in-game testing have proven this out. However, the BiS recommendations I made above and logic are somewhat flawed. I was calculated a weighted INT value for each set of gear based on relative stat weights, that seems (for whatever reason, still trying to figure exactly why) to be biased towards the DTR heavy set over the CRT heavy set.

The long story short is that both the 'old' and 'new' BiS sets are practically equal in a more realistic scenario. One of the flaws of my original work was that the weight used for SS was taken from some old Sim results performed at chocobro.com. After another forum poster pointed out a flaw in the findings, I went back to re-analyze the impact of SS on overall damage. I realized before long that I need a simulator to really hash out the reality of the situation, so I coded one myself.

In a scenario where you do a 'normal' SMN rotation, keep dots up, Fester, etc., both the old and new sets deliver almost the same damage. While this doesn't devalue the old CRT heavy BiS set, it does bring another set to light as a viable alternative.

In terms of stat weights... INT > ACC (to cap) > DTR > INT > SS

I'm working on improving my sim to incorporate every spell and pet damage in, and allow for some 'random' cast breaks (to simulate mechanics such as Titan landslides/plumes, Ifrit eruptions, etc.) to see how it impacts overall results. But, there are basically 3 SMN BiS sets now that are for all intents and purposes, identical in damage output:

CRT Heavy:
Allagan Grimoire of Casting
Summoner's Horn
Summoner's Doublet
Summoner's Ringbands
Allagan Rope Belt of Casting
Vanya Breeches of Casting
Allagan Boots of Casting
Hero's Necklace of Casting
Tremor Earring of Casting
Hero's Bracelet of Casting
Allagan Ring of Casting
Vortex Ring of Casting

DTR Heavy 1:
Allagan Grimoire of Casting
Allagan Circlet of Casting
Summoner's Doublet
Allagan Gloves of Casting
Allagan Rope Belt of Casting
Summoner's Trousers
Allagan Boots of Casting
Hero's Necklace of Casting
Tremor Earring of Casting
Hero's Bracelet of Casting
Allagan Ring of Casting
Vortex Ring of Casting

DTR Heavy 2:
Allagan Grimoire of Casting
Allagan Circlet of Casting
Summoner's Doublet
Allagan Gloves of Casting
Hero's Belt of Casting
Summoner's Trousers
Allagan Boots of Casting
Hero's Necklace of Casting
Tremor Earring of Casting
Hero's Bracelet of Casting
Hero's Ring of Casting
Vortex Ring of Casting

All 3 have 448 ACC (need to practically cap Garuda accuracy in T5) and practically identical simulatable damage output.