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Thread: Stats and how they work.     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #21
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    From early tests, it looks like Healing Potency increases heals at a 1:1 ratio, while MND increases heals at a 2MND:1HP ratio.

    That would make a high-end Mind IV approximately equivalent to a low-end Healer's Hand III.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by miokomioko View Post
    I always thought it would be simplest if STR raised your maximum damage while attack raised your minimum damage (assuming the same mob with the same stats). Thus, pushing all STR would make you capable of dealing more damage at the cost of being less consistent, creating a natural need for a balance between the two outside of multipliers for other abilities.
    I wouldn't be opposed to a clear system where you don't have to run your stats through some ridiculous number cruncher to determine which piece of gear is better for you, but in this example both stats would have an identical effect on average damage (assuming they work on a 1:1 efficiency ratio), making it somewhat redundant to have two stats (though to be fair STR has some effect on other things as well).

  3. #23
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    Wait, so, MND =/=> M.Acc?

  4. #24
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    MND does add magic acc. But I think in most cases it is better to get raw magic acc materia if you are a THM who wants high magic acc for Ifrit.

    Or you could do a mix of MND for heals and both magic acc, and some pure magic acc materia.

  5. #25
    Vuitton
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    Not to mention m.acc rings. >_> +20 m.acc right there.

  6. #26
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    Posted by a dev 2 days ago, basically confirms what you found:


    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...350#post408350
    STR: Attack Power
    DEX: Physical Attack Accuracy/Block Rate/Parry Rate
    VIT: Defense/Enhancing Magic/Max HP
    INT: Attack Magic Potency
    MND: Healing Magic/Magic Accuracy
    PIE: Magic Evasion/Enfeebling Magic/Max MP

  7. #27
    Yoshi P
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    So in terms of healing/buffing, are we going to want to carry around some gear with VIT on it for enhancing boosts on Protes/Stoneskin/etc or just stick to MND/PIE/Cure Potency gear?

  8. #28
    Bard-turned-Miner
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    Curious that critical hit rate isn't mentioned for any stat.

  9. #29

    Or what effects damage reduced when blocking, though I suppose that's what the new "Blocking" stat on shields is and it's fixed.

  10. #30

    I want to know about crit rate too. I'm assuming DEX but i don't know

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    The example description you gave is essentially how it worked in XI really, not entirely unlikely they grandfathered the concept over.

    Where's Kaeko to do all the work answering these questions because we're lazy? Idk what we pay him for.
    he is working on it pretty heavily this week.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cursive View Post
    he is working on it pretty heavily this week.
    I already appreciate all the hard work he is doing. Thanks in advance Kaeko! :D

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naver View Post
    I already appreciate all the hard work he is doing. Thanks in advance Kaeko! :D
    i probably misspoke...i know he is testing a lot of things pretty heavily this week...not sure on the particulars.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cursive View Post
    i probably misspoke...i know he is testing a lot of things pretty heavily this week...not sure on the particulars.
    Knowing Kaeko, from these forums at least, he won't let me down regardless of his findings. They are always informative and detailed.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triairy
    bunch of japanese
    Physical and magical critical attack power aren't affected by stats, only gear?

    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post414562

  16. #36

    Allow me to translate:
    Quote Originally Posted by Triairy
    Yes, somethingsomethingsomethingsomething, something.

  17. #37
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    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post415358

    Quote Originally Posted by Triairy
    Yes, physical and magic critical hit rate will no longer be affected by attributes. They will only be affected by gear.

  18. #38
    the whitest knight u' know
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    Hmm, wow, Evasion gets no attribute anymore... :[

    Nice to also finally get concrete answers about Gathering/Output/Perception

  19. #39
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    I originally planned to make a dedicated blog post but the formulas would probably be figured out quicker with some group effort rather than 1 person running all the tests. Sorry these do not have the usual level of detail as my usual testing. I view these tests as more a groundwork more than anything definitive, especially with how often SE is changing XIV. Below is a quick summary of some of the tests I've run and my personal interpretation of them.

    * Summaries are in Red
    * Personal notes regarding application in game play in Blue


    **********

    Sentinel:

    Tested using Lv90+ Rainbow Basilisks at Camp Revenant's Toll. If you aggro one of these, they will always do 9999 damage. If you pop Sentinel before aggroing, you will always take 4000 damage exactly. This is true regardless of your DEF (tried at 20 DEF and 600 DEF). This implies one of 2 things: (1) the Sentinel reduction is a straight -60%, or (2) that pertaining to the attack formula, the Rainbow Basilisk's attack is so high that it may hit some ATK/DEF (or "pDIF") cap so DEF didn't matter. Of note, this reduction is probably calculated AFTER the damage has been capped at 9999, though I have no way of actually confirming this.

    * Provides -60% damage reduction (rounded up)
    * Reduction does not change with affinities/cross-class (only duration/recast does)
    * The most damage you can ever take with Sentinel active is 4000.


    One of the most overpowered skills in the game. Given how easily it is to level a job to 36 at this stage of the game, would highly recommend all players who take endgame seriously to get this skill. Reduction is not affected by trait, which is nice. Found it interesting that the "cap" on damage with Sentinel on appears to be 4000, which is an easily attainable max HP in 1.19.

    **********

    Stoneskin II:

    Again using Rainbow Basilisks near Revenant's Toll. The key to testing stoneskin is you have to have a set amount of damage. The most obvious way for testing this is 1000 needles with cactuars, but it's tedious to force the TP move. Because we know the Rainbow Basilisk will do 9999 damage (or 4000 damage with Sentinel), we can easily calculate how much damage is blocked from Stoneskin.

    Briefly, I started with a control of CON with 243 MND, 401 Healing, 382 Enhancing. The base stoneskin II was 488. I then increased MND to 264 (407 Healing) with no subsequent increase in Skin. Increasing my VIT stat to increase Enhancing magic to 385 (+3) increased Skin to 490 (+2). I then switched to MAR which had a Enhancing of 394 (due to higher base VIT); without trait was 396, with was 446. This is consistent with a 495 Stoneskin @ 394 Enhancing, with 80% w/o trait (396), and 90% rounded up with trait (446). Also of note, testing Stoneskin I briefly, there seems to be a cap of 75 HP absorbed regardless of stats at R50 (could be capped simply due to high Enhancing magic Skill).

    * Increasing MND did not increase Stoneskin II
    * Increasing VIT/Enhancing magic did increase Stoneskin II
    * Profundity I/II did not affect the amount of HP absorbed
    * Affinities do play a role with 80% HP absorbed w/o trait, 90% with trait
    * +1 Enhancing Magic Skill equates to roughly +0.5 HP absorbed
    * Most CON stoneskins will fall around 490-500 HP absorbed.
    * Stoneskin I appears capped around 75 HP absorbed (?)


    Disappointed with this spell in v1.19 simply because there doesn't seem to be a viable way to enhance this spell with any sort of build or gear selection right now. There's no direct way to enhance your Enhancing Magic Skill without stacking VIT, which is an odd stat for a mage to stack. Even if you tried to add say +100 VIT, it would only give you maybe ~15 HP absorbed. Nice to know the HP it absorbs, but not worth making a build for this right now in my opinion. Still one of the strongest spells in the game regardless.

    **********

    Poison II / DoT Spells:

    I tested DoTs mostly using Poison II and with 2 different methods. The first mimicked the way I originally tested DoTs prior to 1.19 here; the other was using star marmots outside Ul'Dah, which have a low enough max HP for me to directly figure out by throwing rocks on a DoH class.

    Using the Lemur "Soil Smear" method by using a DoT then having the Lemur give the enfeeble back to me, I was able to determine that the amount of damage per tick. PIE did seem to affect the damage per tick. Briefly, I took 2 THMs, one with PIE of 235 and another with 271 vs. Lv42 Lemur. Using Poison II, the set with 235 PIE gave 28 Damage per Tick, whereas the build with 271 PIE gave 29. The damage also seems to vary greatly on elemental resist now. For instance, taking a R50 CON with THM trait on a Lv44 Lemur:

    Choke II: 16 | Burn II: 7 | Poison II: 23 | Bio II: 12

    This suggested to me that elemental resists may play a role in determining the damage per tick. I then tried to confirm this by giving myself Shell II, then having the Lemur use "Light Scratch" to steal my Shell II, then using the same Soil Smear technique. The result showed that for a THM with a 25 damage per tick Poison II (261 PIE vs. Lv42 Lemur), this value was reduced to 21 damage per tick whent he Lemur had stolen my Shell II, confirming that elemental resistances do factor into the damage determination formula.

    Moving on to Star Marmots in Ul'dah, which I found to have an HP of exactly 67 by throwing rocks at them on DoH. I would then extend the max HP bar on the UI to across the whole screen then use DoTs to see the HP drop off. I would then screenshot and very crudely count the # of pixels taken off the HP bar and relate it back as a % of the total HP bar to find the % of 67 HP taken off. Doing this with Poison II at both PIE = 220 and 301, I found that the Poison II damage per tick appeared to be exactly 30 HP/tick for BOTH builds, implying it caps.

    * Damage per tick affected by both user PIE/enfeebling and the mob's elemental resist
    * The damage per tick on spells appears to have a cap (30 for Poison II)


    Admittedly, these tests were done rather crudely. For instance, I did not even note my actual enfeebling magic skill during these tests, only the PIE change. Overall I was extremely disappointed with DoTs (especially at the very low Poison II cap...), which probably led to the lack-luster testing and lack of a formula determination. This would be an interesting set of tests to revisit when we are able to re-allocate stats, but for now, I think SE has killed a DoT build (which was admittedly overpowered prior to 1.19) for the time being with the very low caps. Of note I do not know what a Poison II would deal to Ifrit since this is a difficult topic to test on high level mobs without knowing their elemental resists; so I am unable to answer the question of "should I use DoTs on Ifrit?"

    **********

    Slow:

    Very quick test done here where I would use Slow on a mob while with FRAPS running, then check to see how many frames it took for the mob to get off 3 attacks with and without slow. I would then repeat this with varying degrees of PIE/Enfeebling Magic skill.

    * Slow grants roughly 65-80% increase in auto-attack delay time

    The test was fairly crude so the only information I feel safe in calling is that Slow with a normal THM w/o any gear on gives anywhere between a 65-80% increase in auto-attack delay. Whether or not PIE/enfeebling magic affects this or not I do not feel safe in calling, though I would assume it does. Either way, incredibly powerful spell on something like Ifrit when each normal attack does 600-800 damage.

    **********

    Cure III:

    Here we start to get into testing with large amounts of raw data. Briefly describing my testing methodology, I started with a control build of a CON using only Cure III w/o Prime Conditioning on with base stats of 234 MND and 399 Healing Magic Skill. I would then adjust these stats carefully with equipment and traits so that one remained the same while increasing the other. Trials were conducted by just self-healing myself. Since in 1.19 you cure for max amount even if you're already at max HP, it made this less painful to test. Results as follows:

    Control: 234 MND, 399 Healing Magic Skill
    n = 324, criticals = 28 (8.64%)
    mean = 854.1, median = 854, minimum = 829, maximum = 880
    c.mean = 1042, c.median = 1040, c.min = 1010, c.max = 1069

    Healing(+) Build: 234 MND, 411 Healing Magic Skill (+12 skill from control)
    n = 177, criticals = 16 (9.04%)
    mean = 872.0, median = 871, minimum = 845, maximum = 898
    c.mean = 1062.7, c.median = 1062, c.min = 1039, c.max = 1090

    Mind(+) Build: 280 MND, 411 Healing Magic Skill (+46 MND from healing build)
    n = 107, criticals = 12 (11.21%)
    mean = 881.5, median = 881, minimum = 856, maximum = 909
    c.mean = 1062.7, c.median = 1063, c.min = 1043, c.max = 1083


    These tests had a total n of 608, which is fairly limited, but I felt comfortable because at the conclusion of each test, the mean, median, and average of min and max values were extremely close to one another. Unfortunately, it is difficult a formula with this data. If we were to make the huge assumption that the formula works similarly to XI, then you could get this:

    Cure III = [ 196 ] + { [Healing Magic] x 1.5 } + { [ MND ] x 0.25 }

    However, there is no indication other than speculation that both Healing Magic and/or MND follow a direct modifier increase (as opposed to say multiplicative), so I would take the above formula with a grain of salt. I would also take the critical hit data with a grain of salt as well due to limited trials, other than the fact that when you critical hit, there seems to be a rough +20-25% HP cured increase - that much I'm confident in.

    Lastly, with regards to the distribution of cure values on the control (n=324), I found that the distribution did not follow any sort of "normal distribution", and felt it was random more than anything. Below is a graph which plots the frequency of each value between the min and max seen in the control test. Had there been some kind of normal or bimodal distribution, I think I would have seem something by 327 trials.

    http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/4076/asdfec.th.png

    * Healing Magic +1 improves Cure III more than MND +1
    * I'm unwilling to go any further than that regarding an accurate formula
    * When critical hit occurs, the HP cured increases by roughly 20-25%
    * Cures appear to be a random value between a set min and max value (not normal)
    * No testing was done on Second Wind I/II, Cure I/II or the Sacrifice Spells

    The above testing falls far short of being able to find a definitive formula for Cure III; however, I think it does tell us a couple of important things. First off, that the randomness in cure values does not seem to follow a normal distribution, but a random one (where all values between min and max have an equal chance of occuring). Secondly, it at least gives us the general idea that 1 or 1, healing magic is better than MND. I gave a sample formula, which is likely horribly flawed, but you're free to follow up on it if you'd like. In that sample, I imply that every Healing magic skill increases Cure III by roughly 1.5 HP while every MND increases it by 0.25 HP. Finally, Crits seem to add 20-25% HP cured, though I have not tested anything regarding Crit gear. Overall, I'd say a Healing Magic build on Head/Weapon may be worthwhile for a dedicated healer, but givent he expense of Healer's Hand IV, I probably wouldn't invest in any double socketing at this point. Max MP builds (or MND since it adds MP as well) are probably a more realistic goal for a dedicated healer in 1.19. Again, something well worth revisiting in 1.20 with stat allocation.

    **********

    I've actually spent most of my time testing the effects of MATK and INT on nuke damage in addition to trying to find the level correction factors that seem to play such a huge role in the game right now. I'll try posting those findings here later this weekend but thought I'd start with the easy stuff first in this post. If you have any questions on testing methodology or follow-up feel free to post back here or PM me and I'll try answering with what I can.

    Overall, my take on this patch and stats testing is to not be too impatient regarding finding exact formulas. The game is still changing greatly every patch and I think spending the enormous amount of time to finding exact formulas may be a waste of time in the long run (or even short term with how fast things change). At this point, I'm personally content with just being able to tell someone if something's worth making a build for or not and which stat is better for X purpose.

    Lastly, I unforunately feel a bit overwhelmed by some of the formulas in the patch as you'll see later when I start talking about MATK/INT on nukes, as they seem to follow more closely to the melee formula of XI rather than the magic damage formula of XI. Unfortunately, melee formulas were not my strongpoint in XI. If someone like Kirschy or Suiram were testing this they'd probably have a formula out already.

    Kaeko

  20. #40
    True skill only comes from macro switching all your e-peen gear thru 10 pages
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    Ugh I miss Suiram. Where'd he go? I'd love it every time he'd post anything BLM related back in the day. Good stuff Kaeko~