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  1. #1

    THF equipment, etc questions~

    Hi guys, I recently returned to FFXI after not playing for years and have some questions about some things that have been discovered in the years I haven't been playing, as well as some other general questions.

    First of all, a couple equipment questions; first, let me post my TP set:

    P. Harpe / Ridill (S. Kukri, possibly buying Blau soon?)
    Bomb Core / Ziska's
    W. Turban
    Peacock
    Suppanomimi
    Brutal
    Scorp. Harness +1
    Homam hands
    COP melee ring
    Jaeger ring (working on ToaU so I can gimp it with the ToaU ring instead)
    Amemet +1
    Swift Belt
    Pal. Pants
    Homam boots

    Questions:

    From an EXP prospective, is Ridill useful? THF sword skill is really slow. I know it is really good in Dynamis and for anything EM or less it is definitely nice, but how about for EXPing? I have full sword and dagger merits (and suppa), but no sword or dagger torque. Basically, is it impossible to eat meat using ridill in EXP PTs?

    Equipment questions:

    Pal Pants vs. Bravo's subligar? Acc+4 vs. Haste+2. I've been reading haste has a cumulative build-up, so the more you stack, the better it gets. Obviously, Homam pants or those haste+3% pants from that ToaU ENM would be better, but I don't have either yet.

    Scorpion Harness+1 vs. Rap. Harness? Acc+12 vs. Haste+4. If ridill is do-able in EXP PT eating meat, I think I would definitely take the 12acc here, but if P. Harpe/Sirocco is the way to go, should I take the haste instead? Obviously Homam is better, but I don't have it.

    Also, I've read different opinions on SA and TA gear sets- some people say for using only SA or TA you should try to leave all your haste+ in and just change the other slots, so that you aren't delaying your next attack highly and losing more damage than you are making up in your gear-swap. Is there merit to this? Especially if I am using Ridill, when I SA in Hecatomb, it takes forever for the next attack to go off because I am swapping all of my haste gear for slow+ gear, potentially losing a lot of straight melee damage and TPing a bit slower.

    If I buy Blau and Ridill is plausible, I think Blau/Ridill would beat P. Harpe + Ridill. If Ridill isn't possible, P. Harpe + Blau seems like a pretty decent combination.

    Obviously, a lot of this stuff is situational, and testable by me, and I will be testing it myself over the coming weeks; I was just hoping to get some input from other people as well. Much appreciated.

  2. #2
    DEUS VULT
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    Re: THF equipment, etc questions~

    I have about fuckall for THF knowledge, but this thread had some good discussion about weapons, at least.

  3. #3
    Zoot
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    Re: THF equipment, etc questions~

    If you don't have 8 sword merits, I don't recommend the ridill at all (especially at bird camp). I recommend using sushi and getting a rapparee harness which is going to serve you overall better than using a SH+1 in merits with the haste you have. If you do get a rapp harness, I recommend using bravos in merit and pln. pants for WS, or for things that evade you abit more or something (you have enough cumulative haste to make that useful). Edit: I was thinking H. Harpe. Oh dear. P. Harpe is a good option, but mostly for /WAR imo. Sorry, lol. Pharpe/sirocco would be a good as well, but I do prefer blau/sirocco for the higher TP gain as /NIN.

    Scrap the Jaeger ring and get an actual sniper's or save for a sniper's +1 or toreader, while jeager is nice and cheap THF is one job where R/X "it's ok just not that good" doesn't cut it for top end.

    About SA and TA, absolutely, however if you have a good enough SA and TA set you can achieve a greater damage percentage than you would not switching out this gear. Hecatomb for Solo SA and TA is really not good though. The reason for this is that although a weapon skill is not counted as a normal hit, SA and TA hits are, so you're losing all of your haste and stacking slow onto that attack round. I recommend leaving on your haste and only filling in dex and agility in slots where you don't have haste until you have a good set for both.

    http://www.livejournal.com/users/releenaseraph has a nice explanation of the negative effect of losing haste in SA and TA setups.

    Fire bomblet is a relativley new item that serves THF abit better than bomb core. One could argue to use bomb core for SA and TA setups and WS situationally but I won't go that far. Also, Forager's in place of Amemet +1 (unless you have an affinity for RATT!)

  4. #4
    Salvage Bans
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    Re: THF equipment, etc questions~

    Even with sword merits I dont eat meat when offhanding a ridill. Admittedly I dont xp much on thf, im capped out, campaign to recap, and merit on nin war or drk. But this would be the set I use (using sushi). If I really want to use meat, ill go /war.
    If im on birds, doesnt really matter, im not gonna spam sushi, so I eat meat, maybe throw in potent belt instead of swift, maybe homam head instead of denali. Minimal loss of haste to add a little more acc.

    My setup for comparison - lots of acc, but still wouldnt mess with meat offhanding Ridill
    P. Harpe/Ridill
    Fire Bomblet
    Denali Bonnet
    P. Charm
    Suppa/Brutal
    Homam Corazza
    Dusk Gloves
    Woodsman/Ulathalms
    Cerb Mantle
    Swift Belt
    Homam Pants
    Homam Feet

    WS Setup
    Heca Cap
    P. Charm
    Pixie/Brutal
    Heca Body
    Heca Mitts
    Thunder/Rajas
    Cerb Mantle
    Warwolf Belt
    Denali Kecks
    Heca Feet

    I never really notice a long delay in swinging when swapping gear, but I think it would be negligable compared to the boost in damage you would get from gearswaps.

  5. #5

    Re: THF equipment, etc questions~

    Thanks for the replies and insight so far. As far was WS gear goes, I'm currently WSing in:

    Perseus/Ridill/Sirocco
    Bomb Core (Ziska's)
    Hecatomb Head
    Chiv. Neck (should get Sea neck?)
    Pixie Ear
    Elv RSE ear (dex2, agi1)
    Heca harness
    Heca mitts +1
    Rajas
    Dex+5 ring
    Amemet+1
    Warwolf
    Heca Subligar
    Heca boots

    I think I should change Amemet+1 to commander's cape (don't have AF2) for WS, but haven't bought it yet. Also, I should probably get the sea neck for Dancing Edge and Shark Bite. For DE and Sharkbite WS, is Dragon Harness the better way to go? I've been toying with the idea of trying to make a Dragon Harness+1 for myself, but I don't know (read: it isn't) if it is worth it.

    As far as SA+DE or TA+DE goes, should I WS in a DEX set for SA and a AGI set for TA, or is that negated by using the WS? If so, is my WS setup okay for either?

    Gonna build just-SA and just-TA sets soon.

    Also, I should probably be meriting on WAR, but I don't really have gear for it; I'm sure I could get better invites on a gimp war than a pimp thf though.

  6. #6
    New Merits
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    Re: THF equipment, etc questions~

    Keep in mind that, once your merits and Homam are complete, your offhand will multi-hit about ~17-18% of the time anyway so the Ridill effect isn't quite as huge as it may seem. Even if you cover the accuracy problem, the sword hits are landing at ~60 less Attack and get no piercing bonus. General verdict is: farming only.

    As for SA/TA swaps, you'll have to hash out the arithmetic yourself since it will vary a lot with your current Haste buffs etc. In my case, my SA macro basically converts Homam into Hecatomb and thus costs me about half an attack round and adds about ~150-200 damage assuming a low defense target so it's definitely worthwhile.

    Also, damage now >>> damage later is a pretty solid combat principle. The next round occurring sooner is no consolation if your SA could have just killed it in the first place.

    I think I should change Amemet+1 to commander's cape
    Don't. :]
    Commander's is only better if your Attack is already capped.

    For DE and Sharkbite WS, is Dragon Harness the better way to go? I've been toying with the idea of trying to make a Dragon Harness+1 for myself, but I don't know (read: it isn't) if it is worth it.
    Hecatomb for DE and Evis, Dragon for Shark Bite.
    Dragon+1 is impressive, but if it's going to cost millions of gil then just save it for Skadi Cuirie instead since it beats both.

    As far as SA+DE or TA+DE goes, should I WS in a DEX set for SA and a AGI set for TA, or is that negated by using the WS? If so, is my WS setup okay for either?
    Standard WS set (STR/DEX focus) is best for TA+WS, since the bulk of the damage is coming from the secondary and offhand hits. The amount contributed by your AGI is the same lump sum you get on a standard TA. Notable exception is the AF+1 hands since it's such a large amount, and comes with 3 DEX.

  7. #7
    Hydra
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    Re: THF equipment, etc questions~

    Honestly, I would never bother using Ridill on Thief for anything other than farming or first floors in Salvage. You're missing a lot of attack and accuracy to justify a weapon that isn't really going to accomplish as much as a good offhand dagger. If you just had to use Ridill offhand, you'd want to have Blau Dolch as your main, because you really need the accuracy and attack from it.

    On sets for Sneak Attack and Trick Attack, I say go all out with the caveat that I personally don't use Hecatomb gear for Sneak Attack because the gains in damage aren't usually great enough to justify the slow to me. If you milk these two abilities for all they're worth, you can function somewhat similarly to a Samurai with Soboro Sukehiro. You'll get your normal weapon skills (I think one every 45 seconds is pretty easy with any sort of haste buff), along with two abilities that do the damage of smaller weapon skills. It can take a while to figure out which piece you should use where, balancing attack with the stats, but they really do pay off. If you're stacking with weapon skills for whatever reason, Sneak Attack and Trick Attack sets should be basically identical, aside from Rogue's Armlets +1 for any and all Trick Attack uses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loren
    Hecatomb for DE and Evis, Dragon for Shark Bite.
    Dragon+1 is impressive, but if it's going to cost millions of gil then just save it for Skadi Cuirie instead since it beats both.
    Ehh, Dragon Harness +1 is still the better piece for Shark Bites and solo Sneak Attacks (Denali Jacket being better for solo Trick Attack of course). Were I to pick one or the other I'd rather have Skadi's Cuirie, of course, but it's not totally one-sided.

  8. #8
    Sassy Tyrant
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    Re: THF equipment, etc questions~

    I'm currently leveling THF, and I see that you guys suggest hecatomb for alot of WS gear choices. I currently don't do sky, and I don't think I will be for awhile so hecatomb equipment is a bit of stretch for me as I currently only have n feet abj sitting in my MH at the moment. What is the next best equipment choice for the rest of the slots where you would normally put in hecatomb?

  9. #9
    Sea Torques
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    Re: THF equipment, etc questions~

    In General I was a Ridill Thief. I still parsed higher than expected accuracy, and when considering that even if I missed 50% of the time on my Ridill Hand, I'd pretty much out damage any other choice, in most situations.(Shit is situational) However, i don't really merit on Thief, as I actually prefere war for that, even a gimped to shit war will get invited over a Pimped thief. And since/if you got a Ridill, you would be pretty well off to begin with comparatively.

    If you do get full Homam and decide to merit on thief, Ridill is still pretty viable in the offhand, even if you were to offhand a dagger and get the aformentioned ~18% multi-attack rate, it still won't beat a ridill's roughly 65% multi-hit of the Ridill. (Assuming the accepted 15/50/35 standard breakdown.) Back in the day, and probably still, I had absolutely no issue surpassing most, if not all non-ridill wars. I am not sure how things have changed since recent updates, but I am also wearing about 90% different gear since then too...

    On the SA & TA thing, To be honest, I never really thought about it. I Just made a high Agi build for TA that included Artifact Gloves +1, and dropped in Heca where convenient.(Space saving, not going to grab an additional 5 pieces of gear for 10 agi etc.) and pretty much full Heca for SA. I did in fact notice the slowdown after the hit, but never thought much about it. (To the posters that suggested alternative routes, I give you my thanks, going to screw around with that later.)

    Bird camp didn't exist when I was meriting on my thief, so I really dont' know what life there would be like w/out sushi while using a ridill...

    I'd Assume the challenge between the two would be between the reduced delay in the Blau or Sirrocco offhanded compaired to the multi-hit properties of the Ridill coupled with the accuracy. So maybe a rough 22% increase in attack speed, and X% increase in accuracy, coupled wiht the ability to use meat at your leasure could topple the Ridill, but it's really hard to say, and that math is old and gone from my head since war hit 75 and I didn't have to worry about it anymore.

    So rambling aside, in short, have fun on thief, because anything you'd need it on you'd either be subbing a non-nin sub like war for claiming, or Sam for TP, or you'd be goofing off with /nin on stuff where accuracy is of no matter anyways. So WORK and merit on a gimped war, save yourself the heartache of seeking, and go have FUN on thief.

    =]

  10. #10
    D. Ring
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    Re: THF equipment, etc questions~

    I actually need to start retooling my thf around as far as ws gear goes although i wouldn't mind an improvement or two on the tp gear. MY ws gear needs to get moved around since i've decided to finally swap to meat with the addition of 2 new toys for acc. Does anyone mind helping me figure out how much acc i really need for this so that i can balance the lack of sushi vs the damage loss from taking out str/dex?
    I'm also getting 98~99tp too often for my tastes. I dont know if it's a result of the decreased acc for DE since i've not upgraded a seperate meat build for thf WS yet or a result of me needing to sneak in more storetp so i'd love to hear any opinions of where i can add stp so that I sacrifice as little damage as possible while doing so. I have full dagger merits for future reference.

    my current ws gear is
    mighty knife/blau/misercorde+1(depending on day of course with thf knife for events where i'm stuck as th4 whore like salvage)
    bomblet
    Skadi mask
    chiv chain( dont own pcc yet and since im having stp issues i'm holding off until i can know for sure how to incorporate pcc in properly)
    minuet/brutal( i'm getting hollow as soon as i find time for AN)
    Dragon harness( going to change to hect soon for the acc since this change is quite obvious)
    hect gloves
    rajas/thunder ring
    amem+1
    warwolf belt( changing to potent probably)
    dusk trousers
    hect feet


    I'm hoping that by using my skadi trousers and losing 10 atk out of 500~600+(depending on buffs) I've made the necessary amount of stp to remove my nagging 99tp problem.
    Most of my solutions involve keeping skadi trousers on near fulltime since if i get love torque/pcc and use ecphoria ring i'm back where i started. Triple attack or DA during trick attack or sneak attack can add up to 4 hits without stp tacked on. I think this is the root of the problem so I'm proposing that i keep my skadi on during sneak attack and/or trick attack to prevent myself from "losing" tp upon a few lucky multi hit proc. The other option is to keep the trousers on during WS which might also be a good idea since i'm not using sushi anymore.

    I usually keep brutal on for the DA but it's occurred to me that if i have a cor in pt then my DA rate will be high enough for me to forsake the brutal during WS in favour of more dex/acc. is this feasible or should I just keep the thing on fulltime like usual?
    I dont get many chances to parse my thf in a pt that knows what they're doing so i'm sorry for having so many questions. If i tried to test each idea i had out instead of asking it would take months to get any real data.

  11. #11
    Zoot
    Guest

    Re: THF equipment, etc questions~

    Quote Originally Posted by Falisa
    I'm currently leveling THF, and I see that you guys suggest hecatomb for alot of WS gear choices. I currently don't do sky, and I don't think I will be for awhile so hecatomb equipment is a bit of stretch for me as I currently only have n feet abj sitting in my MH at the moment. What is the next best equipment choice for the rest of the slots where you would normally put in hecatomb?
    The reason why I chose Heca for DE was mostly because the I wasn't hitting fSTR cap with my set and this piece really helps with that. Also, it's a 5hit WS so the 10 acc helps alot. Basically, though, you'll be using the gear that you would have for an SA and TA set even with heca with minor differences to add in STR instead of maximum dexterity or agility.

    good equipment options to heca imo are like:

    Head: Assassin's Bonnet or Voyager's Sallet, with Voyager's being abit better

    Body: Dragon Harness, SH+1 (very valuable when you first get DE and your accuracy isn't that hot), Blue Cotehardie +1

    Hands: For humes I really prefer RSE gloves...and that's what I use right now for SAWS. For TA, AF+1 is very good (+15% damage from total agility to first hit + 3dex on modifier through all hits)

    Legs: Dragon or Denali Kecks for SAWS, Dusk/Dusk+1 (or Denali, which is comparative) for TAWS

    btw, to the OP, for neck I really recommend leaving in your Peackock for DE and using something like Spike Necklace +1 or Breeze Gorget (best imo) for Shark bite instead of Chiv chain. That extra acc is probably going to help you more than 5 STR on more evasive mobs. Also, I strongly do not recommend adding any Agility for TAWS unless it is the benefit of some other high dex or str item. Sadly, even Iota ring is trumped by Thunder Ring....which actually makes me kind of sad lol. (3%vs.2.5% acc with higher critical rate and more damage from the DEX mod, 3 agi and 3 acc just mean nothing /sigh). There are a few items I change from SAWS and TAWS, such as hands and pants - Dragon for SA and Dusk for TA.

    A major thing I tweaked is my Solo WS, which I will use on occasion when I get 100% TP and have just blown SA or TA. This set uses O.Hat and A sniper+1 in place of a thunder ring.

    Edit: In relevance to the statement made in the post above mine, I also keep Brutal on fulltime. Typically when I party with a cor we'll be getting SAM and DRK rolls anyways. Those two rolls are very, very good even without a DRK or SAM in the party. As a COR and THF myself, I prefer them to Rogue's or Fighter's.

  12. #12
    E. Body
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    Re: THF equipment, etc questions~

    was i the only one who thought

    "bought account" when i read OP?

  13. #13

    Re: THF equipment, etc questions~

    Quote Originally Posted by altwight
    was i the only one who thought

    "bought account" when i read OP?
    I said I hadn't played the game in a couple years. God forbid I have some questions about acc gear versus haste gear, because it is so clear cut, right? Fuck you.

    And to everyone else, thanks, the replies have been awesome so far.

  14. #14

    Re: THF equipment, etc questions~

    1.) Don't ever EXP in Ridill; save it for farming and goofing around.
    2.) Get Blau/Sirocco
    3.) Almost always eat meat
    4.) Bravo's Subligar, and since you're gonna' want to use meat, stick with SH+1
    5.) P. Harpe/Blau is acceptable but I'd encourage you to aim for Sirocco
    6.) SA and TA in full haste gear and fill in DEX and AGI in slots that don't influence your attack speed
    7.) Snag a Fire Bomblet and ToAU ring (as you mentioned)
    8.) Have fun!

  15. #15
    Zoot
    Guest

    Re: THF equipment, etc questions~

    Honestly, I really have to disagree with the meat comment. With his gear as it is now, meat even with a SH+1 is not going to hit at 85% hit rate on mamools without a miracle (known as madrigal).

    Right now he has around +12% in accuracy, which is a pretty big yikes for THF. And that's without knowing if he has dagger merits, which also makes a significant arguement in whether or not to use sushi. However, by using Rapparee harness, bravos, and sushi with what homam he does have, he's likely to see better returns (going from 17% haste to 21% haste is a major leap in damage). THF gear is just so relative to the situation that the food really has to be the same.

  16. #16

    Re: THF equipment, etc questions~

    I've got full dagger merits, as mentioned in the first post. Also, I've already got a Sirocco- so Blau/Sirocco is better than Perseus/Blau?

    Also, how much +acc am I looking for to use meat on merit mobs?

  17. #17
    Zoot
    Guest

    Re: THF equipment, etc questions~

    Missed it! Even so, 7 accuracy isn't going to bring that up to the level where you'd want to use meat until a few accuracy upgrades in gear.

    And yea, because of the lower delay and gaining 100% tp much faster with blau/sirocc or x's/blau with 10% critical and near the same damage as P. Harpe. You get knocked up into the next weapon rating but it's not going to matter as much as that delay.

    By the way, I'm not saying the sushi thing because I'm all pro sushi or whatever. I use meat and I love it. But before I got all my accuracy upgrades, I did alot of parsing with meat and what accuracy I did have and it just didn't stack up to sushi. In fact, the best TP setups on THF hardly do. I went to mamool today, took off my bomblet to lolpull and parsed 85% acc...borderline "maybe I should use sushi" accuracy.

    So that's what I suggest. Get a rapp harness and fool around with the results yourself. Always best to have options, anwyays, as a rapp harness is useful for other things too. It's not as simple as black and white for this job because THF is very dependent on gear, and what works for one set won't always work for what another person has.

    You want to pull 85% on a parse to equal the amount you'd lose from the +attack, so I'd say gearwise around +50 or so accuracy, or + 25% accuracy, but that's a ballpark figure and mob dependent (i.e. you need less on puks and more on lurkers). The easiest way to test this is to parse your own accuracy in the gear set you do have and add from there. Every +2 acc is 1% accuracy or so. And wow, I fail at math. You have more than +12%, but sadly probably still not enough.

  18. #18
    STR-1 DEX-1
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    Re: THF equipment, etc questions~

    Uh, I'm not so great with all the math but I can give my gear set for tp with thf and you can get a relatively decent idea of what you really should have to use meat.

    8/8 Dagger Merits
    Blau
    Sirocco
    Bomblet
    Turban
    Love Torque
    Brutal/Suppa
    Homam Body
    Homam Hands
    Toreador Ringx2
    Forager's
    Swift
    Homam Legs
    Homam Feet

    I parse 90-92% on Nyzul Mamools with Feint on every Lurker and 1 Madrigal using Sis Kebabi. Other than a couple of small upgrades I don't think it gets a lot better than this for TP. If you're looking at using meat and missing some of this I'd suggest hedgehog pie if not at birds. I really should use it but never can find a party on thf that lasts 3 hours so I normally don't bother.

  19. #19
    Hydra
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    Re: THF equipment, etc questions~

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoot
    By the way, I'm not saying the sushi thing because I'm all pro sushi or whatever. I use meat and I love it. But before I got all my accuracy upgrades, I did alot of parsing with meat and what accuracy I did have and it just didn't stack up to sushi. In fact, the best TP setups on THF hardly do. I went to mamool today, took off my bomblet to lolpull and parsed 85% acc...borderline "maybe I should use sushi" accuracy.
    Why would you take off your Fire Bomblet to pull? Darts are your friend.

  20. #20
    Zoot
    Guest

    Re: THF equipment, etc questions~

    omg, that is the best idea ever....I honestly have just never thought of that lol. It's probably because I'm just so stuck up that I always assume a party is going to have a bard when they invite me! Shameful, yes.

    Sad thing is, there's a stack of darts in my Safe for pulling on RDM in sky anyways!

    Also, my setup is the same cookie cutter you posted secksi except with sniper +1 instead of toreador. All look same! At least until skadi legs decide to exist. And for that party I was using hedge pie, because it was leftover from the party I just left, but then we were doing alot of puks. So my acc was probably just abit better.

    Later last night I went to birds and parsed 83% with sis kebabi's on birds without madrigal. Which is still kinda meh.

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