Astrologian Discussion Thread: (Insert Yu-Gi-Oh! joke here)

[Snoctopus]

Did not see one of these threads yet, so figured I'd put this here for people to share their findings.

After early access weekend, my AST is currently sitting at level 51, with an iLvl of 116 from items that I had laying around from SCH.

Here's what I'm finding so far:

-Diurnal Stance seems to be more effective for dungeon running than Nocturnal Stance.

-Potency on AST cures seems pretty weak compared to WHM/SCH cures. I'm not an FFXIV math pro, some maybe someone can confirm this for certain. I feel like if I switch into clerics things will go south pretty quickly.

-Aspected Benefic being instant is pretty cool. Make it very easy to throw it up as soon as it drops.

-For some pulls I've felt like keeping the tank alive was a challenge in either stance, and have had to spam Benefic II. Essential Dignity (long cooldown, instant cast) is a lifesaver, but it feels like you need to go to it almost too often compared to SCH with lustrate where it was more of an "oh shit" button. The AST "oh shit" moments feel like they happen more often than other healers, and the class has a harder time recovering from them.

-It's difficult to set up good card combos. Two of the cards (Ewer, Spire) aren't very helpful for dungeons/leveling due to TP/MP regen in between pulls. This may change with endgame content when fights tend to be a bit more of a marathon. Because of the RNG, I'm only using spread to hold onto Bole for when I need it with tanks.

-The best time to set up Royal Road buffs seems to be in between pulls. Due to how long the recast is on draw, you likely won't get a second card after a pull until the mobs are weakened/some are dead. In trash combat, I'm dealing out any card I get as I get it to make the most of the cooldown. I'm doing this as well in boss fights, unless the card is Bole, which I'll spread to hold for bigger tank hits.

-In general, unless the card is Bole it seems best to just use cards as you get them.

-AST dps at 51 is low. This might change with Malefic II at 54 though. This could also be because of how much time AST spends having to spam Benefic II to prevent death.

Not sure which stats to prioritize so far, as I'm not great at the math. I don't believe nocturnal shields get the same crit bonus as adlo. Normally I'd assume that crit would be better than spellspeed due to Aspected Benefic being instant cast, but with the spellspeed changes to HoT potency and with Diurnal Stance seeming more powerful in general than Nocturnal, spellspeed may be the preferred stat.

That's what I've go so far. What is everyone else seeing? As we get more information I'll do my best to update the OP to be less of my personal early observations, and more of what the community is discovering about the job overall.

[Burningthought]

I just got my AST to 50 tonight and I had a lot of fun with it pre-50. Now that i'm in heavensward content I have to echo that the damage seems incredibly low on trash. Hopefully Malefic II makes up for it. I'm still playing around with the best timing for the cards and I found myself gravitating to setting up it before pulls too, but I didn't think about saving bole for big hits. I've only run one high roulette since I hit 50 an hour before maintenance started.

I didn't really touch Nocturnal Stance so I don't have anything to add there, but I also noticed that it was harder to keep up with heals. I wasn't sure if it was AST healing or DRK tanking that was making it difficult to stay caught up, but you have to put in a lot of work and pay attention versus SCH/WHM where you can kinda heal in your sleep.

I think I need to move my royal road hotkey to a different one because I keep royal roading instead of reading the cards, but growing pains aside i'm loving the lore and the naming conventions for AST. I've decided to make it my first job through MSQ/Heavensward content for now.

[bercus]

I am 60 AST now since yesterday. Only played few hours since I needed time to sleep again.

• AST DPS is probably same as with WHM. Done some speed runs and works great.
• You get a similar spell called Gravity (equals WHM Holy!!!)
• Malefic II is probably similar damage as Stone III but I have not levelled WHM yet to compare those 2 jobs.
• I have also no problem keeping parties full health but it is a VERY TINY BIT harder then with WHM.
• It is imo however the most busy and challenging healing job (I was main WHM and SCH before) as I constantly use up to 28 abilities (card control itself are 4 and the 5 new ones are alone 9).
• Best part is when you connect yourself to one tank and extend that by 15 sec and again by 5 with the AoE ability.
• You can basically take care of 2 tanks a lone (i.e. Bismarck fight).
• There is a lot of flexibility in this job.
• Disable -10% next move and 10% shield connected with some Virus and Co. is also powerfull imo (thinking about Primal AoEs or bigger single attacks coming in new Content.
• Time Extensio works for all buffs given and I suggest putting it at big pulls on a buffed damage reduction Card on tank for better speed pulls.
• Lightcasting only on heals for now, since it takes away DPS from Gravity (and you are still limited on global cool down.
• Instant Cure**** rocks when you are in DPS mode and let tank drop to low health for big cure up (= can longer DPS).
• Both SCH and WHM are good healing Partners with AST.
• All Combos have their pro and con. Due to AST being able to buff People with Cards it is imo the better choice. In raids / endgame I can imagine not to DPS much and leave that to SCH or even WHM (depending on how well their new DPS attacks are) and Focus on Cards and healing.
• Went for Protect, Swiftcast, Stoneskin, Cleric Stance and (for FATES before I got Gravity > Blizzard 2) - which I will Change to Surecast.
• We did some Speedruns with AST BRD BLM and AST MCH BLM and it is just crazy sick <3.
• You definatly Need to do dungeons to get better at playing.
• Once you are safe with single Groups and able to throw out some DPS too, have your tank pull 2 Groups, then go up to 3 Groups. 6-7 enemies are about to be suggested Maximum though to Keep up with healing.

**** At work and can´t look up AST Spell names.

No time for more in the next days , but this is definatly for now (considering I am not interested in levelling another heal job in next 4 weeks) my new main job.

[r7v2]

-Diurnal Stance seems to be more effective for dungeon running than Nocturnal Stance.

Pretty much is. The 5% haste from the stance helps for when you want to do some light DPS too.

-Potency on AST cures seems pretty weak compared to WHM/SCH cures. I'm not an FFXIV math pro, some maybe someone can confirm this for certain. I feel like if I switch into clerics things will go south pretty quickly.

They are lower potency overall. It would be fine if we had more than one "Oh Shit" button. Supposedly the cards make up for it.

-Aspected Benefic being instant is pretty cool. Make it very easy to throw it up as soon as it drops.

Aspected benefic is pretty baller. Wish it were a bit more MP efficient in diurnal.

-For some pulls I've felt like keeping the tank alive was a challenge in either stance, and have had to spam Benefic II. Essential Dignity (long cooldown, instant cast) is a lifesaver, but it feels like you need to go to it almost too often compared to SCH with lustrate where it was more of an "oh shit" button. The AST "oh shit" moments feel like they happen more often than other healers, and the class has a harder time recovering from them.

We don't have the cooldowns other classes get to handle situations you need to pump out lots of green numbers fast + efficiently. So our only option is to spam benefic II and pray its over before our MP is gone.

-It's difficult to set up good card combos. Two of the cards (Ewer, Spire) aren't very helpful for dungeons/leveling due to TP/MP regen in between pulls. This may change with endgame content when fights tend to be a bit more of a marathon. Because of the RNG, I'm only using spread to hold onto Bole for when I need it with tanks.

Spire and Ewer generally see their best use in prolonged fights. And even then you have to hope that when you draw it and play it that these cards can see their potential used. Usually royal roading them is better.

Ewer is pretty nice to use on a BLM though, just make sure to apply it at the start of their fire phase.

-The best time to set up Royal Road buffs seems to be in between pulls. Due to how long the recast is on draw, you likely won't get a second card after a pull until the mobs are weakened/some are dead. In trash combat, I'm dealing out any card I get as I get it to make the most of the cooldown. I'm doing this as well in boss fights, unless the card is Bole, which I'll spread to hold for bigger tank hits.

I wish you could hold onto a royal road buff to apply whenever you wanted rather than force consume on the next card. Would make it easier to set up good combos. (Make it act like spread use-wise)

-In general, unless the card is Bole it seems best to just use cards as you get them.

Pretty much agree with this. Though I do like to burn the TP/MP reduction to double the next decent card duration. Usually works out better for standard pulls since they are situational in those.

-AST dps at 51 is low. This might change with Malefic II at 54 though. This could also be because of how much time AST spends having to spam Benefic II to prevent death.

Malefic II helps but its still pretty low. World mobs are pretty annoying. Their "damage" is supposed to be through buffing party members. It sounds great on paper but it makes it annoying to level solo.

Not sure which stats to prioritize so far, as I'm not great at the math. I don't believe nocturnal shields get the same crit bonus as adlo. Normally I'd assume that crit would be better than spellspeed due to Aspected Benefic being instant cast, but with the spellspeed changes to HoT potency and with Diurnal Stance seeming more powerful in general than Nocturnal, spellspeed may be the preferred stat.

I'd prefer spellspeed > crit even if the shields got doubled on crit (I don't know this either). Spellspeed feels like it would be the better way to increase our meh-ish healing output + more reliably power through big pulls.

That's what I've go so far. What is everyone else seeing? As we get more information I'll do my best to update the OP to be less of my personal early observations, and more of what the community is discovering about the job overall.

The number one thing I am begging for is at least one more "Oh-Shit" button. Right now recovery is difficult if you fall behind/eat all your MP. As it is now all we get is essential dignity. I love the skill but it alone isn't enough. I know about synystry (sp?) and it can work for a short time at the cost of too much MP spamming aoe heals on a party. What could be amazing is if essential dignity could store two charges with one restored every 40 seconds. Might help us power through heavy healing moments but that is just a crazy idea I had talking with a friend about this.

The potencies will probably get another pass by SE. We will see how they are adjusted.

Umbral stance could use a slightly higher potency bonus to offset how much you lose without regen (and lack of fairy). I don't bother with it unless I have a WHM in party. 4man content is far easier in diurnal.

Lightspeed needs a second look. The 25% penalty to healing magic potency makes it extremely situational it feels like.

The damage is just uuuuggghhh but I can live with it mostly. Feels like a slog going through content.

Kinda wish I could use spread out of combat though, I know why it works the way it does but its still a bummer.

Overall I still am finding it super fun to play. In 8 man content as long as your partner is on the ball your lower healing output is usually less of an issue than some would think. I feel like SE is being cautious on release with the power of the new jobs and will adjust them to be as effective as others given time.

[bercus]

It's difficult to set up good card combos. Two of the cards (Ewer, Spire) aren't very helpful for dungeons/leveling due to TP/MP regen in between pulls. This may change with endgame content when fights tend to be a bit more of a marathon. Because of the RNG, I'm only using spread to hold onto Bole for when I need it with tanks.

Give it (Ewer) to your DRK and he will love you (as mentioned before or BLM or WHM Partner in endgame)
Spire only good for Royal Road or when you know a Job is pumping out TP too much.

[bercus]

I wish you could hold onto a royal road buff to apply whenever you wanted rather than force consume on the next card. Would make it easier to set up good combos. (Make it act like spread use-wise)

You can Shuffle to get a new one, or use a stored one. Still some luck related but you can controll Cards once you have all 4 abilities pretty well.

[Tobi]

Regarding the time extension skill, I'm pretty sure it works for every AST buff you applied, and time dilation increases the duration of all skills, not just the last one added. Or maybe I misunderstood you when you said last action used.

I personally would like an ability to increase our cure potency or something, but I just assume the way it is now is because of the cards. I find the damage reduction cards to be more useful for bigger pulls, helps lighten the load on the heavy Benefic II spam. I suppose it could also depend on the pull. Once you get the hang of it, you can start to throw out a few gravity casts, though sometimes I have a habit of using a bit too many and leaving myself dry of mp for next pull I just love using this spell so much.

I would have liked being able to use time dilation on myself.

I still feel like the field skill is way too situational at the moment, maybe I'll see it as more useful later in 8man content.

I usually use spire card for a WAR due to overpower, outside of that, I haven't really used it.



Overall I've been enjoying AST alot, a lot more than I thought I would actually. Not being able to use exchange outside of battle still makes me qq. I also find it very painful when I get sync'd to 50 for roulettes and stuff, gravity has spoiled me for aoeing, and not having malefic II throws me off as well. I probably plan to try out AST in pvp sometime this week and see how it is, especially with the new pvp skill for them.

[bercus]

All benefits applied extended. Mistake in Writing from my side.

[LinktheDeme]

Does Time Dilation apply to all buffs or only ones AST applies?


Also what about their level 60?

[Falisa]

SPEAR AND SPIRE CARDS FOR DAYSSSSSS. Feels like they're the only cards I get. I can see them being useful in raids and such, but pretty useless for 4 man dungeons. I especially hate getting constant spear cards solo because I can't even royal road it into a useful buff.

I generally find it a lot harder to dps in dungeons on AST but I bet it will be easier with better gear for a stronger diurnal benefic and more HP/defense on the tank's end. No Eye for an Eye on large pulls, nor stun from Holy make Gravity spam a bit harder to weave in while keeping the tank up.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Does Time Dilation apply to all buffs or only ones AST applies?


Also what about their level 60?

Only buffs applied by the AST. So basically just regen and cards.

[Silenka]

I too have been finding that cards tend to fall prey to XIV's infamous RNG where "random" tends to mean "one streak of something forever". Spear and Spire definitely feel like they come up most often for me. Interested in seeing if someone eventually crunches numbers on this to see if some cards are somehow weighted to show up more than others, but I imagine it would take an absolutely massive sample size across many players to prove.

[Snoctopus]

I too have been finding that cards tend to fall prey to XIV's infamous RNG where "random" tends to mean "one streak of something forever". Spear and Spire definitely feel like they come up most often for me. Interested in seeing if someone eventually crunches numbers on this to see if some cards are somehow weighted to show up more than others, but I imagine it would take an absolutely massive sample size across many players to prove.

I'm feeling this way too.

I guess a silver lining is that the spear cooldown reduction counts towards your next draw if you use it on yourself.

Regarding card "priority", here's what I've come up with so far:

Bole: Main Tank for tank busters; If Expanded RR is up I'll use this for massive AoE attacks (Astral Flow, etc)

Ewer: WHM > AST > DRK > BLM > Everyone else (SMN and SCH can recover their own MP so I don't worry as much about them)

Spire: WAR = DRK > Everyone else; or just convert to Extended RR or reshuffle

Arrow: BLM > Whichever DPS has the most buffs currently active

Spear: Tanks; or convert to Extended RR. Also a good reshuffle candidate.

Energy: Whichever DPS is doing the most... DPS.

Also, regarding the cooldown on Draw, if you have a RR buff that you want to keep for something in particular (Expanded is the one that comes to mind) and pull a garbage card like spire, you can click off the temporary card buff you get to start the recast sooner. It's not always helpful, but if there's a certain combo you're going for manually cancelling the card draw will save you 15 seconds of cooldown.

[Burningthought]

I'm feeling this way too.

I guess a silver lining is that the spear cooldown reduction counts towards your next draw if you use it on yourself.

Regarding card "priority", here's what I've come up with so far:

Bole: Main Tank for tank busters; If Expanded RR is up I'll use this for massive AoE attacks (Astral Flow, etc)

Ewer: WHM > AST > DRK > BLM > Everyone else (SMN and SCH can recover their own MP so I don't worry as much about them)

Spire: WAR = DRK > Everyone else; or just convert to Extended RR or reshuffle

Arrow: BLM > Whichever DPS has the most buffs currently active

Spear: Tanks; or convert to Extended RR. Also a good reshuffle candidate.

Energy: Whichever DPS is doing the most... DPS.

Also, regarding the cooldown on Draw, if you have a RR buff that you want to keep for something in particular (Expanded is the one that comes to mind) and pull a garbage card like spire, you can click off the temporary card buff you get to start the recast sooner. It's not always helpful, but if there's a certain combo you're going for manually cancelling the card draw will save you 15 seconds of cooldown.

God damnit I wish I figured that out sooner.

So I hit 55 tonight and just finished Aery and here's a few impressions:

- It can be really hard to catch up if you get behind, you have to pay attention a lot more than SCH/WHM unless tanks just seem to take more damage regardless.
- I wish Spread could be used out of battle.
- Synergy, I can't tell if it works with AoE cures or if its just single target cures on other players. Also does the HoT also work with synergy on aspected spells?
- I can't tell what situations lightspeed should be useful. I get its pushing out cures essentially without casting time with a 25% decrease in potency. I never really played whm, I only played SCH so I guess its almost the same as presence of mind. Thinking about it more as I type this out, you can pump out 2 cures in the time that it takes you to cast 1 essentially so if the tank is getting hit hard you can spam instead of relying on potency.
- I'm starting to get better rolls and its nice keeping Bole held and popping it at a better time.
- I haven't had a chance to try out the LB3, is it worth using?
- Even though I mained SCH Nocturnal Stance is kinda rough getting used to, I think it has to do with having two of each type of heal and my hot keys being different.

[Kari]

- I wish Spread could be used out of battle.

No idea why you can't. It wouldn't be that broken and it becomes really clunky in some situations.

- I can't tell what situations lightspeed should be useful.

The only time I've ever found Lightspeed useful is if I need to run around, or I'm fighting things where I can kill them in one or two spells even with the reduced damage. (Some of the story quest monsters had like 1.5k HP or something, Gravity.)
When tanks are doing big pulls you can follow them with Lightspeed on and toss out cures without stopping to cast, which is okay. Unless they remove the potency debuff from attacks or heals, I think it'll remain super situational like...another 2 or 3 of our spells.

- I haven't had a chance to try out the LB3, is it worth using?

They didn't really change LBs. All Healer LB3s are the same, just new animations per job. The only new LB is for BRD/MCH because we didn't have a ranged physical job LB before.

- Even though I mained SCH Nocturnal Stance is kinda rough getting used to, I think it has to do with having two of each type of heal and my hot keys being different.

Nocturnal Sect gives 5% healing potency and Enhanced Benefic has a 250 potency cure. SCH's Adlo is 300 potency with double crit shields.
Assuming our crit shields don't double (the tooltip doesn't mention it), you're looking at the spell probably being worse in every case, I think?
Either way it's probably not so much the playstyle as much as it is the new content. We're used to playing above the gear level of content, and now we're below/at the gear level intended and it's also designed differently. *shrug*

[Snoctopus]

- Synergy, I can't tell if it works with AoE cures or if its just single target cures on other players. Also does the HoT also work with synergy on aspected spells?

This should be easy enough to test with a few friends, I would think. Get a few friends together, toss synergy on one of them, throw out Helios and see how much Synergy heals them for in the combat log. I can test this tonight when I got home, but I just barely got to work so it'll be a few hours before I get the chance. If anyone else wants to jump on this, that'd be helpful.

- I can't tell what situations lightspeed should be useful. I get its pushing out cures essentially without casting time with a 25% decrease in potency. I never really played whm, I only played SCH so I guess its almost the same as presence of mind. Thinking about it more as I type this out, you can pump out 2 cures in the time that it takes you to cast 1 essentially so if the tank is getting hit hard you can spam instead of relying on potency.

Lady Tisi from my LS said she likes to use it to rapidly apply stoneskin. I am trying to train myself to use it when I need to quickly cure up a whole party with Helios, but don't always remember to cast it. Room-wide unavoidable damage seems to be where I start having trouble keeping up with the healing, and I think recovering from those situations is where you'd want to do a lightspeed+helios spam.

- I'm starting to get better rolls and its nice keeping Bole held and popping it at a better time.

I sincerely believe that Bole is our most important card, period. Anything that can reduce the amount we need to heal for.

- Even though I mained SCH Nocturnal Stance is kinda rough getting used to, I think it has to do with having two of each type of heal and my hot keys being different.

The shields from Nocturnal are simply too weak to have the general practicality of SCH adlo. Kari mentioned in their post that it's a 250 potency cure (AB) vs 300 potency (adlo), which is accurate, but also leaves out that SCH will still have Eos or Selene likely macroed to cast embrace with adlo. Once you take that into consideration you're looking at a shield with 50 more potency that doubles on crit (NS shields do not to the best of my knowledge at this time) in addition to a 300 potency fairy heal. Depending on how you're looking at it, NS is at best half as effective as a scholar doing the same work, if we're comparing to crits it drops to 33% as effective.

[fliprock]

I don't know if it's just me but I can't macro Ascend, is this happening to anyone else?

[octopus]

I don't know if it's just me but I can't macro Ascend, is this happening to anyone else?

It's broken for everyone. I don't know why it's still not fixed yet.

[Kaisha]

Anyone found a mouse-over friendly version of using cards? So far I have card drawing in one hotkey, and then made a macro for the same skill but with <mo> to apply it.

Could do one line with <mo>, and a second one with <me> so the card draw would work, but then you risk applying the buff to yourself if the <mo> line buggers up for whatever reason.

[lilfoo]

Anyone found a mouse-over friendly version of using cards? So far I have card drawing in one hotkey, and then made a macro for the same skill but with <mo> to apply it.

Could do one line with <mo>, and a second one with <me> so the card draw would work, but then you risk applying the buff to yourself if the <mo> line buggers up for whatever reason.

mine:

Spoiler: show

/micon Draw
/autofacetarget off
/ac "Draw" <mo>
/ac "Draw" <t>
/ac "Draw" <me>
/autofacetarget on

For some odd reason my charicter sheet opens randomly with this macro