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  1. #1201
    Relic Weapons
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    Quote Originally Posted by donnie View Post
    coming from a guy who doesn't know what he is talking about.

    I did not mention what Apathy did was wrong what so ever, and we did have 1 shot at him before apathy killed him way back, and have reached final form before he despawned. there is a video link in this thread somewhere go find it your self.

    anyway, Starr clearly was asking why isn't using blms is easier then melees. and no one from apathy have cleared how they approached bombs although i asked earlier in the thread too .

    In my own experience, 14 blm with 1 round of nukes have reached 2-4% on each of the lamps forms except one i dont remember which, but all below 10% with 14 blms. so Adding 4 more blms will defenatly going to kill lamps in 1 round.

    on the other hand,there were 2 blm alliance wipes in our first try, one at the first set of gears by which some were using thundaga III instead of blizzaga III. and the 2nd wipe was from bombs by which they self destructed on everyone.

    so for people that does want to use blm method just make sure of 3 things:
    1- cast the right spell for specific monsters ( puks , gears etc)
    2- do not reraise all at once if any wipe happens.
    3- lamps tend todo thier TP move immediately after nukes lands, ( well stating the obvious ), so make sure there is a sch/drk to stun-ga immediatly afterwards IN CASE they are not dead yet.

    finally, I would appreciate if there is any details of how you approached final form , still blu rotation? is there is any other way you think it might work say using smn,rngs with the right positioning and what not? thnx , what was the alliance set up on final form ? etc etc and thnx
    Damn I guess I'm not in Apathy too. Gotta join VS with the sign.

    Edit: Sorry only read your first line but grats on reaching the final form dude

  2. #1202
    Sea Torques
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makaveli View Post
    Damn I guess I'm not in Apathy too. Gotta join VS with the sign.

    Edit: Sorry only read your first line but grats on reaching the final form dude
    I wish I know your IQ or your age for both of you lol..You were saying that I was building theories thats why "you dont know what your talking about", since in fact we did kill the lamps with blms and its not a theory i am speculating. has nothing todo with you being in apathy or nor i care about it too.

    and I wasn't gloating that we have reached the final form , it was brought later on just to mention the fact that it was not a theory, I guess stupid people are just stupid lol

    anyway , there are 3 things that should be done now either:

    1- argue with both of you if I should have replied to Starr about our blm method or not.

    or

    2- leave it to readers to see how stupid you both made ur selfs.

    or

    3- the second option , plus I continue to share knowledge with others so I can contribute more (like any average IQ players would do), which eventually could improve strategies like what we did in einherjar, salvage and other events/NMs.

    guess I leave you both "THINKING" which option I would pick...

  3. #1203
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    Option 1 follow advice of someone who got to final form using just BLMs who had to die reraise many times wasting time, who then in turn did not have enough time to kill final form. BLM nukes do nothing after 2x weakened so saying that its not wasting time is stupid btw.

    Option 2 follow advice of someone who has killed multiple times using both BLM and Melees to plow thru first 9 forms with over an hour left to deal with final form. Some forms BLM and stronger for and other melees are, just like the various PW forms.

    Anyway for questions: Bombs and Dahaks we work together to kill quicker. Dahaks BLM have the luxury of nuking with their back to them, and Bombs go down fast with everyone attacking. Melees and Fire spells.

    PS donnie ur so cool wit ur high IQ dood plz kick moor knowledge for us 2 lern

  4. #1204
    Sea Torques
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythe_Seraph View Post
    Having 4 PT's worth of BLM with a SMN in each one, then another PT with a tank, and some sort of support, as well as sch/drk for stunga, may be a 'bit' too demanding on members for most linkshells. While it may be one of the easiest ways to handle adds, its not practical. His question was asking how to implement melee into the add handling. He was given an answer.
    your fellow mate agrees with you that blms are a waste of time

    P.S: from where you got that blms were rereasing and with double weakend the whole time? again you dont know what your talking about , read what I have mentioned 1 page ago

  5. #1205
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    Quote Originally Posted by donnie View Post
    your fellow mate agrees with you that blms are a waste of time

    P.S: from where you got that blms were rereasing and with double weakend the whole time? again you dont know what your talking about , read what I have mentioned 1 page ago
    We are not in the same ls lolololol but please do it how ever you want to, theres more than 1 way to kill anything

  6. #1206
    terraflarex
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    I'm really confused why everyone is baffled at melees being able to tank lamps. Anything with provoke can pull lamps and provided you throw Dark Knights (or BLUs) into the mix to stun TP moves, you shouldn't really have any major issues. That being said, you could probably kill lamps in others fashions, it's a matter of preference as far as I can tell. Not sure what other information you guys are looking for honestly...

    What would you like me to "share" so I can be an "average IQ player" like you, donnie? (Serious question)

  7. #1207
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    Quote Originally Posted by terraflarex View Post
    I'm really confused why everyone is baffled at melees being able to tank lamps. Anything with provoke can pull lamps and provided you throw Dark Knights (or BLUs) into the mix to stun TP moves, you shouldn't really have any major issues. That being said, you could probably kill lamps in others fashions, it's a matter of preference as far as I can tell. Not sure what other information you guys are looking for honestly...

    What would you like me to "share" so I can be an "average IQ player" like you, donnie? (Serious question)
    you shouldn't get offended by my comment which was not towards you, if you have read carefully ( I am serious, please read it for amusement) you would understand what kind of stupid argument it was in the first place. I never said melees are not good to use, I just said the advantages/disadvantages of using blms.

    anyway I did have some questions that I asked earlier in the previous page and basically it was all about the last form.

    1- what was the alliance set up for last form?
    2- do you think you can manage to tank it even with his TP moves, curse-ga spam and AoE IIIs? how?
    3- by killing multiple times, do you think using SMNers+RNGs might just work? how?
    4- the kiter for lamps on last form , does he claim lamps > run and stay @ 39' from PW and hopes that they AF before he dies? is there is a back up plan?

    thanks

  8. #1208
    Pens win! Pens Win!!! PENS WIN!!!!!
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    Yes Donnie, I'm sure Apathy will be more than willing to answer your questions after insulting their member. Good one.

    Your superior IQ has served you well.

    p.s.: learn to fucking spell.

  9. #1209

    Do you have your pld just stand away and hold the lamps he pulls while pullers pull off? Or kite?

    We had a problem where our pld went past the "line" that the gaers wont cross, and after that it was like he didnt exist (shifted hate back to PW).

  10. #1210
    terraflarex
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    Quote Originally Posted by donnie View Post
    you shouldn't get offended by my comment which was not towards you, if you have read carefully ( I am serious, please read it for amusement) you would understand what kind of stupid argument it was in the first place. I never said melees are not good to use, I just said the advantages/disadvantages of using blms.

    anyway I did have some questions that I asked earlier in the previous page and basically it was all about the last form.

    1- what was the alliance set up for last form?
    2- do you think you can manage to tank it even with his TP moves, curse-ga spam and AoE IIIs? how?
    3- by killing multiple times, do you think using SMNers+RNGs might just work? how?
    4- the kiter for lamps on last form , does he claim lamps > run and stay @ 39' from PW and hopes that they AF before he dies? is there is a back up plan?

    thanks
    1- Tank PT for last form shouldn't be very different from what it is for previous forms. Couple of PLDs mages/bards/corsairs. Any logical tank PT will work (PLD PLD RDM WHM BRD). Can replace a bard with a corsair or second paladin with a corsair if you are fast enough to replace the PLD should he/she die. Other 2 pts should be focused on damaging PW

    2- You can tank PW with skilled mages and good paladins, IMO. PLDs and mages should all have proper medicines to erase ailments as quickly as possible (echos, holy waters, RR, remedies). Aegis PLDs shine on PW since it has built in instant-cast (no time to swap equip to an mdb setting). You can still get unlucky with curse>GAIII so having backup tanks on standby is essential. PW cannot be tanked while the lamps are alive however since they will assist PW and no tank can deal with all the lamps and PW. Therefore, your goal should be to eliminate the lamps and then drop PWs health as fast as possible.

    3 - Rangers and summoners are ideal DDs since they can avoid all of PWs TP and GA moves/spells. However, the rangers need to be smart about their hate and attack from places where they won't MPK your ally if they do pull hate. Other DDs can work as well as long as they time their attacks/WSs correctly. IE, weapon skill after it uses a big spell. People are going to die, it's unavoidable, but everyone should have RR so you don't waste your mage's MP.

    4 - As far as I know, you cannot kite PWs lamps because they have a very awkward shared hate system with PW that I still don't completely understand (VS might be able to explain it). The only thing you can do is move the people w/o any hate far far away and let the people with hate force it to AF, die, RR and get back to work. You could log some people off but then someone could get angry and make some journal posts and call GMs on other servers .

    The design of the final form of PW is pretty terrible, IMO, but we have to deal with it for now [so are the drops, mostly ]. The fight is a race more or less, you need to rip through the first forms as fast as you possibly can so that you have lots of time in the final form. Ideally, you'll want an hour left to kill the last form from what I have seen thus far. Hope this helped you ~

  11. #1211

    Now the thread has meaning, also summary in OP please?

  12. #1212
    terraflarex
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neosutra View Post
    Do you have your pld just stand away and hold the lamps he pulls while pullers pull off? Or kite?

    We had a problem where our pld went past the "line" that the gaers wont cross, and after that it was like he didnt exist (shifted hate back to PW).
    To be honest Neo, we've never tried kiting the lamps, so I'm not sure of the line the gears won't cross. I suspect it's the entrances to the tunnels since I have never seen final form lamps go past there either. Typically, we just pull lamps off the Paladin that holds them a little away from PW (but not terribly far away, mind you) one by one and kill it as fast as we can. Usually they die so fast that we have to alternate provokes on the lamps due to recast~

  13. #1213
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    Quote Originally Posted by terraflarex View Post
    1- Tank PT for last form shouldn't be very different from what it is for previous forms. Couple of PLDs mages/bards/corsairs. Any logical tank PT will work (PLD PLD RDM WHM BRD). Can replace a bard with a corsair or second paladin with a corsair if you are fast enough to replace the PLD should he/she die. Other 2 pts should be focused on damaging PW

    2- You can tank PW with skilled mages and good paladins, IMO. PLDs and mages should all have proper medicines to erase ailments as quickly as possible (echos, holy waters, RR, remedies). Aegis PLDs shine on PW since it has built in instant-cast (no time to swap equip to an mdb setting). You can still get unlucky with curse>GAIII so having backup tanks on standby is essential. PW cannot be tanked while the lamps are alive however since they will assist PW and no tank can deal with all the lamps and PW. Therefore, your goal should be to eliminate the lamps and then drop PWs health as fast as possible.

    3 - Rangers and summoners are ideal DDs since they can avoid all of PWs TP and GA moves/spells. However, the rangers need to be smart about their hate and attack from places where they won't MPK your ally if they do pull hate. Other DDs can work as well as long as they time their attacks/WSs correctly. IE, weapon skill after it uses a big spell. People are going to die, it's unavoidable, but everyone should have RR so you don't waste your mage's MP.

    4 - As far as I know, you cannot kite PWs lamps because they have a very awkward shared hate system with PW that I still don't completely understand (VS might be able to explain it). The only thing you can do is move the people w/o any hate far far away and let the people with hate force it to AF, die, RR and get back to work. You could log some people off but then someone could get angry and make some journal posts and call GMs on other servers .

    The design of the final form of PW is pretty terrible, IMO, but we have to deal with it for now [so are the drops, mostly ]. The fight is a race more or less, you need to rip through the first forms as fast as you possibly can so that you have lots of time in the final form. Ideally, you'll want an hour left to kill the last form from what I have seen thus far. Hope this helped you ~

    That was very helpful thank you :D , I can swear that I have read somewhere where you can send a kiter that doesnt cross 40' distance and just get AFed there , where the lamps will depop causing only 1 person to die.

    on another note, does that mean you split teams on final form? 1 tank PT + 1 DD PT > get AF then they die > other tank PT + 1 DD PT comes in until 50% die> first tank PT goes in etc?

  14. #1214

    Thanx for the answers.

  15. #1215
    E. Body
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    I don't get the Apathy bitching. Way early in this thread they've already given some advice, and they've continued to. No, they haven't given you a timestamped event-for-event log of the whole fight yet but why would they (besides the fact it'd take a large handful of posts to do so)? They've given enough hints, it's like the SE AV video except actually helpful. Now others are up.

  16. #1216
    terraflarex
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    Quote Originally Posted by donnie View Post
    That was very helpful thank you :D , I can swear that I have read somewhere where you can send a kiter that doesnt cross 40' distance and just get AFed there , where the lamps will depop causing only 1 person to die.

    on another note, does that mean you split teams on final form? 1 tank PT + 1 DD PT > get AF then they die > other tank PT + 1 DD PT comes in until 50% die> first tank PT goes in etc?
    Anyone with hate is going to be killed after AF because even if you could kite them away, everyone else will still be on the hate list after he kills the target of his AF. Then you have the problem of having to tank PW and his lamps simultaneously, which is not really possible as far as I can see due to their shared hate. You could be onto something here though, you could try this out just to see if it's viable. We have never tried it to my knowledge though, so I'm afraid I can't really help you out here.

    The answer to this is very manpower dependant. If you have lots of people at your disposal, you should use 1 tank party and 2 dd parties. If not, you'll have to go 1 and 1. Honestly though, unless you are exceptionally efficient / have tons of people, those parties will be off weakness by the time you kill all the lamps again. I'd say your best bet is to use as many DDs as you can in the ally once his lamps have been disposed of so that you can force it to AF again. If you have the manpower, you can dedicate a set ally to his lamps only and just cfh them so that your pw ally members can help kill them when they're off weakness. However, most LSs (my own included) don't have those kind of numbers.

    And I don't believe I can modify the OP of this thread, sorry Starr.

  17. #1217

    Shinryuu should, he likes writing things.

  18. #1218

    Quote Originally Posted by terraflarex View Post
    Anyone with hate is going to be killed after AF because even if you could kite them away, everyone else will still be on the hate list after he kills the target of his AF. Then you have the problem of having to tank PW and his lamps simultaneously, which is not really possible as far as I can see due to their shared hate. You could be onto something here though, you could try this out just to see if it's viable. We have never tried it to my knowledge though, so I'm afraid I can't really help you out here.

    The answer to this is very manpower dependant. If you have lots of people at your disposal, you should use 1 tank party and 2 dd parties. If not, you'll have to go 1 and 1. Honestly though, unless you are exceptionally efficient / have tons of people, those parties will be off weakness by the time you kill all the lamps again. I'd say your best bet is to use as many DDs as you can in the ally once his lamps have been disposed of so that you can force it to AF again. If you have the manpower, you can dedicate a set ally to his lamps only and just cfh them so that your pw ally members can help kill them when they're off weakness. However, most LSs (my own included) don't have those kind of numbers.

    And I don't believe I can modify the OP of this thread, sorry Starr.

    So there is no secret to handling the Astral flow repopped lamps? You just eat it, die, RR, and continue weakened?
    I do not believe anything in the game has to be "sac pulled", so if this is the case with this monster design, then I believe its a badly designed monster too.

    Just imagine if it didn't have the repopped astral flow lamps. alot of people would attempt the monster, and the different forms is a really good concept and seems like a very fun monster for people to enjoy.
    Its too bad that maybe 5% of a server will only attempt this fun monster because of its broken final form.
    I would honestly fix the final form and just lower the treasure drops rates and higher the tier IV trigger drop rates if they(SE) are so concerned about everyone owning hachiryu bodies and shenlongs and breaking the game.

  19. #1219
    terraflarex
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gtype954 View Post
    So there is no secret to handling the Astral flow repopped lamps? You just eat it, die, RR, and continue weakened?
    I do not believe anything in the game has to be "sac pulled", so if this is the case with this monster design, then I believe its a badly designed monster too.

    Just imagine if it didn't have the repopped astral flow lamps. alot of people would attempt the monster, and the different forms is a really good concept and seems like a very fun monster for people to enjoy.
    Its too bad that maybe 5% of a server will only attempt this fun monster because of its broken final form.
    I would honestly fix the final form and just lower the treasure drops rates and higher the tier IV trigger drop rates if they(SE) are so concerned about everyone owning hachiryu bodies and shenlongs and breaking the game.
    I have not seen any possible way to avoid AF yet. There does not seem to be a way to prevent it from using it and I cannot conceive of any way to survive simultaneous astral flows from every avatar in the game. This is not to say that we've learned everything possible about this mob, I'm sure there's some kind of absurd trick or condition that you can fulfill to avoid his AF. However, we all know how forthcoming SE is with that sort of thing ( hi AV).

    Is this how SE intended us to kill PW? I sincerely doubt it, but it can work for the time being. Are there better ways to approach final form? Probably.

    And yes the final form was designed horribly, while the rest of it is very fun, IMO.

  20. #1220
    Salvage Bans
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    Umm.. I dunno if you weren't there when it happened Terra, but VS managed to make an Astral Flow go off on only himself on one of our attempts by doing diaga on the lamps after they popped and before Astral Flow was used. Granted we just eat it at this point, but it is avoidable.

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