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  1. #1
    Chram
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    leg/ligament cramps?

    Every now and then while sleeping the side of my knee starts hurting like hell when I try to move it. From what I can tell, it's the MCL based solely on where the pain is compared to knee anatomy charts online.

    Essentially I'll wake up in the middle of the night to a sharp pain in the knee with it bent. As long as I don't try to move, the pain recedes quickly. If I try to use the muscles in the leg to move it, the pain intensifies. If I slowly use my other leg to straighten the fucked-up one, it doesn't hurt anywhere near as much. And once it's fully stretched out, the pain goes almost completely away. The knee is very slightly sore for the day, and that's that.

    This has happened maybe a half-dozen times ever, so it's not very common. I'm not particularly overweight, and I practice martial arts regularly. And it's on my non-dominant side (standing leg on many kicks). While the obvious answer is "you do martial arts, you fucked your knee up", I'm hoping for a more something more specific. I haven't injured either knee before, though obviously doing lots of kicks puts some wear and tear on them. I understand that annoying shit like this will happen more frequently as people age (arggg fuck getting old!), but I'm wondering if I should see a doctor now or just wait until it's worse. It doesn't affect other activities, and doesn't appear to make the knee weaker after it happens.

    Any suggestions?

  2. #2
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    If it's been 1 week or more, go see a Doctor

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    I'd be wary of this being a side effect of an issue elsewhere, like in the hip. Strain there, while not felt, may result in tugging and pain elsewhere. If you're sitting a lot, I wouldn't be surprised if your hip flexors are jamming up, as that sometimes results in knee pain for me, too. Google some stretches or yoga poses if you think that may be it. Otherwise, yeah, look into a doc if it grows more persistent or worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatapa View Post
    If it's been 1 week or more, go see a Doctor
    Prior to last night, it last happened probably 6 months ago or more. So I'm not sure what you mean? It happens, I get it stretched out, I get a little soreness for just a day, then I forget it happened until the next one...

    Quote Originally Posted by arus2001 View Post
    I'd be wary of this being a side effect of an issue elsewhere, like in the hip. Strain there, while not felt, may result in tugging and pain elsewhere. If you're sitting a lot, I wouldn't be surprised if your hip flexors are jamming up, as that sometimes results in knee pain for me, too. Google some stretches or yoga poses if you think that may be it. Otherwise, yeah, look into a doc if it grows more persistent or worse.
    I'm also potentially worried that it could be a symptom of something else. But while I do sit a bit, I also try to stay active to break up long stints in my office. Even when I'm sitting, I shift around pretty often. And again, I stretch very regularly during classes.

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    As I learned very quickly into my marathon training, if you have joint or tendon pain, go see a doc asap. Not doing so cost me 6+ weeks of training last year and I had a well rounded talking to by a nurse and the doctor on why no joint pain should be ignored by a doctor, no matter how infrequent or minor.

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    you do martial arts, you fucked your knee up

    go see a doctor

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    It seems as if the majority of people on these forums automatically jump to the conclusion that you require a doctor to tell you that nothing's wrong. If it's that infrequent, you're fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palpatine View Post
    It seems as if the majority of people on these forums automatically jump to the conclusion that you require a doctor to tell you that nothing's wrong. If it's that infrequent, you're fine.
    I would rather pay for a doctor to tell me that nothing's wrong than have random person on web forum tell me that nothing's wrong and then I die/get much worse.

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    I knew somebody would immediately get upset at my opinion. I would rather save a large amount of money than hear what I already assumed.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palpatine View Post
    I knew somebody would immediately get upset at my opinion. I would rather save a large amount of money than hear what I already assumed.
    Until one day your assumption is wrong, and your "large sum of money" that you wanted to save (how much does it cost to go see a doctor in the states? 1-2 bills?) will turn into a REALLY REALLY LARGE sum of money.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anoat View Post
    I would rather pay for a doctor to tell me that nothing's wrong than have random person on web forum tell me that nothing's wrong and then I die/get much worse.
    Since there are actual doctors here, and I can't find many examples online, I figured I'd start here first. I paid $225 to be told I didn't have strep and to just drink lots of fluids back at christmas. I'd like to avoid paying another $225 to be told to take an advil and it'll be fine in 2 days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anoat View Post
    I would rather pay for a doctor to tell me that nothing's wrong than have random person on web forum tell me that nothing's wrong and then I die/get much worse.
    Cause BG doesn't happen to have a good chunk that are themselves/significant other/friend in (specialized)medical/law/IT/etc fields and could easily offer insight or to expedite, with more behind it than durhur goto doctor cheapass or ur gonna be a cripple er ded.

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    I practice martial arts as well, and when I hurt a part of my body, I go a little easier so my injury heals itself. You're just aggravating it more by kicking. If you're doing round-house kicks with your dominant leg, you're probably not doing it properly and twisting your standing leg's knee (or many kicks for that matter). It's pretty common sense, if you hurt something, stop doing what's hurting it, and if it doesn't heal, go see a doctor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firedemon View Post
    I practice martial arts as well, and when I hurt a part of my body, I go a little easier so my injury heals itself. You're just aggravating it more by kicking. If you're doing round-house kicks with your dominant leg, you're probably not doing it properly and twisting your standing leg's knee (or many kicks for that matter). It's pretty common sense, if you hurt something, stop doing what's hurting it, and if it doesn't heal, go see a doctor.
    I actually own and run the school and teach 3-5 days per week. When I'm injured (very rare), I just make everybody else work while I watch. I've done this for a very long time and pay pretty close attention to different aches and pains because I want to be able to do it a lot longer. While I have pulled muscles and jammed fingers in the past, I haven't done anything recently.

    edit: realized this sounds kindof asshole-ish. I do appreciate the replies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Senji View Post
    Cause BG doesn't happen to have a good chunk that are themselves/significant other/friend in (specialized)medical/law/IT/etc fields and could easily offer insight or to expedite, with more behind it than durhur goto doctor cheapass or ur gonna be a cripple er ded.
    Regardless of whether someone on BG is actually a medical professional or not, if you take the word of an anonymous doctor on a web forum over one you meet in person who can physically examine you and run tests if needed, then...well, thanks for helping thin out the gene pool.

  16. #16
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    The tendon is loose and rolling over the bone, which when you try to use your leg muscles to straighten it, it hurts, but not when you relax the leg and use your other leg to straighten it. Solution :
    Monday and thursday:
    1) 4 sets, 4-6 reps each -- front squats, rest as needed inbeteeen sets and use 72% of your 1RM
    2) 4 sets, 4-6 reps deadlifts
    3a) 3sets/8 reps per leg reverse dumbell lunges
    3B) 3 sets 1 leg yoga push ups 6/ side
    (thats a super set)
    4A) 3 sets 12 reps each leg, leg extensions
    4B) 3 sets 40yard farmers walk 52lbs or more.

    Wear a brace on your loosey goosey knee until youve built up your support muscle 6-8 weeks.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anoat View Post
    Regardless of whether someone on BG is actually a medical professional or not, if you take the word of an anonymous doctor on a web forum over one you meet in person who can physically examine you and run tests if needed, then...well, thanks for helping thin out the gene pool.
    yep. it's your body, so if you dont give a shit thats fine but dont be actin like everyone should follow you in not giving a shit.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coren View Post
    Every now and then while sleeping the side of my knee starts hurting like hell when I try to move it. From what I can tell, it's the MCL based solely on where the pain is compared to knee anatomy charts online.

    Essentially I'll wake up in the middle of the night to a sharp pain in the knee with it bent. As long as I don't try to move, the pain recedes quickly. If I try to use the muscles in the leg to move it, the pain intensifies. If I slowly use my other leg to straighten the fucked-up one, it doesn't hurt anywhere near as much. And once it's fully stretched out, the pain goes almost completely away. The knee is very slightly sore for the day, and that's that.

    This has happened maybe a half-dozen times ever, so it's not very common. I'm not particularly overweight, and I practice martial arts regularly. And it's on my non-dominant side (standing leg on many kicks). While the obvious answer is "you do martial arts, you fucked your knee up", I'm hoping for a more something more specific. I haven't injured either knee before, though obviously doing lots of kicks puts some wear and tear on them. I understand that annoying shit like this will happen more frequently as people age (arggg fuck getting old!), but I'm wondering if I should see a doctor now or just wait until it's worse. It doesn't affect other activities, and doesn't appear to make the knee weaker after it happens.

    Any suggestions?
    Can you make a diagram of where exactly it is? Need a little more information than what you're giving.

    And the answer is, always, if you have an issue with your joints, back, heart, breathing, or head, ALWAYS go see a doctor. NEVER wait.

    Questions I would ask you were I a doctor:

    1) How long has this persisted?
    2) Any swelling or redness?
    3) Can you rotate your knee?
    4) Does it only happen at night?
    5) Does it happen while lying down, if not only at night?
    6) What is your diet like?
    7) Any feverish symptoms, or swelling in your extremities (fingers/toes)?

    Because I can tell you right now, a doctor will want to know a lot more than you think if you want a diagnosis that helps. Shit, you might have Gout, Pseudogout, Granulomatosis, or a million other things.

    Personally, for me, I look at your story and you say the pain subsides after straightening the leg with significantly less pain if you do it with your other leg.

    So you either have a pulled muscle, ligament, or strained tendon, or you have crystal deposits in your joints that settle when you go to bed at night. You wouldn't notice it during the day if you're particularly active.

    To rule out gout/arthritis/calcium deposits a quick synovial lance/aspiration is all that is needed to make sure you don't need immediate joint attention.

    Joints are no joke. A muscle can be rehabilitated to a point, but once the meniscus in your knee gives out, you're pretty much fucked.

  19. #19
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    tl;dr: Saw the Dr: I'm not going to lose a leg tomorrow (or the day after), but I have to take it easy if this happens more often.

    I ended up seeing the doctor this afternoon. My initial guess of MCL appears to be correct. She basically said that I'm healthy and my knee is in general slightly inflamed, but nothing really wrong other than I may work too hard some days. Didn't even recommend anti-inflammatory meds. She said that likely the MCL gets stretched out due to the way I sit and/or sleep. Then when I bend it it relaxes in the wrong place (+1 to shepard for the correct diagnosis). Additionally, she said that she doesn't necessarily recommend additional workouts for the knee itself in my case since it's already inflamed. She did say I should do more teaching and less demonstrating, and to take up something like swimming that's not as impacting. She also didn't recommend an MRI yet.

    Kuro, thanks for the detailed reply. And to answer your questions, just in case you have a different prognosis:
    1. happened maybe 5-6 times over the last 5 years
    2. no swelling or redness
    3. i have full range of motion and full strength in both knees/legs, no instability
    4. only at night
    5. only when lying down (at night)
    6. er, not terrible? Meat, potatoes, some veg. I generally eat out at lunch and cook at nights
    7. no fever, no swelling, nothing else bad at all going on.

  20. #20
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