1. FFXIV Reset Timers
    Last daily reset was 12 hours, 19 minutes ago / Next daily reset is in 11 hours, 40 minutes
    Last weekly reset was 6 days, 5 hours, 19 minutes ago / Next weekly reset is in 4 hours, 40 minutes
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 28 1 2 3 11 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 548

Thread: Dark Knight Discussion     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #1
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    9,146
    BG Level
    8
    FFXI Server
    Quetzalcoatl

    Dark Knight Discussion

    What are your guys' thoughts so far?

    I'm enjoying the gameplay a lot but i just don't see how this job doesn't have severe TP deficiencies in raids and the like. I just helped out on an ezmode primal and ran out of TP before the astral flow went off at 50%.

    You can spam unmend a little bit to help but that seems like a mediocre alternative. I admit i'm not 60 yet, but looking at the ability list i don't really see any hope in sight. Feels a LOT like PLD with how fast you burn out. Wondering if anyone else has come up with anything.

    Also kind of getting the feeling they are steering it more toward the MT role with abilities like low blow/reprisal being worthwhile only if you're actually tanking things.

    Hopefully i can hit 60 sooner rather than later to get the complete feel before passing judgment. Hard not to feel worried atm, though. Anyone at 60 yet or close to it who can chime in?

  2. #2
    It's sooo veiny
    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    2,343
    BG Level
    7
    FFXIV Character
    Arch Dizzle
    FFXIV Server
    Excalibur

    So far only 46 but quick over view of my thoughts.

    Grabbing and holding hate on a group or single target is extremely strong
    MP management once I got dark arts has become more complex and interesting
    TP issues are real, i have run out a few times on slower dying dungeon bosses or boss fates

    Damage seems to be a little better then War at this level.

    Love the animations and playing the job

    I feel like we take hits about as well as warriors sometimes and other times I feel like we get hit harder. I think this just may be the difference between a good and bad healer in dungeons tho.

    I feel like we need reprisal to be initiated as an OT somehow, and having our own damage increasing ability would be nice as well.

    I think we will end up being the tank that can fill either role really well just under the other 2.

    Main tanking Pld > Drk > War
    OT/DD/ETC War > Drk > Pld

  3. #3
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    9,146
    BG Level
    8
    FFXI Server
    Quetzalcoatl

    yeah i've been telling people it seems like drk is a medium between the two. but that is just a projected guess. drk seems very good for the dungeon running experience though cause of near unlimited MP and aoes and such.

    for anyone who does pvp, i ran drk in FL a little bit. has the potential to be extremely beastly. with good healing i did quite well. there's a particular player on our DC i could see going 30-0 with it. it's just relentless.

  4. #4
    Yoshi P
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    5,495
    BG Level
    8
    FFXI Server
    Leviathan

    People are whining that DRK is squishy on reddit. It's mostly a case of being used to tanks that are >20 levels over the dungeons and now being ~= with the dungeons though, so it should get better.

  5. #5
    Running Hell
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,232
    BG Level
    6
    FFXIV Character
    Curly Brace
    FFXIV Server
    Hyperion

    I feel like it's going to struggle to find a place in a Raid party setting. Disregarding whatever mitigation tools it has, when it comes to utility it doesn't offer anything unique to warrant bringing it over one of the other tanks. Like you stated with Reprisal being tied to parry our only unique utility skill is limited to MT usage only and even then it isn't reliable nor can you keep it up full time.

    You have to consider that if you bring a DRK over a WAR for OT you lose out on Storm's Eye for your other tank and NIN and Storm's Path for consistent 100% 10% Raid damage reduction. With PLD it's a bit closer but you still lose the only STR down debuff in the game (barring Virus which isn't 100% uptime) and their new AoE Phalanx style shield. The heal is a nice bonus too for emergencies.

    If they had really wanted DRK to have a spot to make you want to pick it they should have removed the INT down from Dragon Kick entirely and made it DRK only. At least then it would have something unique that no other job could replace. They also really need to make Reprisal either a flat 30s oGCD with parries making it a chance to reset a la Low Blows trait or make it a 20s cooldown that requires a parry to activate so we have the potential to keep it up 100% of the time.

  6. #6
    Chram
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,888
    BG Level
    7
    FFXIV Character
    Adrianne Lehmen
    FFXIV Server
    Balmung
    FFXI Server
    Lakshmi

    Quote Originally Posted by kisada View Post
    yeah i've been telling people it seems like drk is a medium between the two. but that is just a projected guess. drk seems very good for the dungeon running experience though cause of near unlimited MP and aoes and such.

    for anyone who does pvp, i ran drk in FL a little bit. has the potential to be extremely beastly. with good healing i did quite well. there's a particular player on our DC i could see going 30-0 with it. it's just relentless.
    just off pure theory this job I think this job is the nuts in FL. All its pvp skills is ridiculous and that c ounter-knockback move is absurd. I see pretty easy battle high/fevers coming off that ability alone because of all the people that rush into ramps to knock people off...on the flip side, pure anecdotal evidence says that you can smash drk's face in pretty easily, more so than any tank thus far, but I'll chalk that up to the fact that it's only been 4days since release for now.

  7. #7

    Dark Knight by no means is squishy, they're definitely close to on par with paladin at 50, post 50 I'm not too sure. I really don't get how people are getting such a negative stigma towards DRKs being squishy when they literally have the same stance as PLD and the same GCDS (with sentinel being SLIGHTLY weaker, nothing too noticeable though especially considering it puts DRKs at 50% mitigation)

  8. #8
    a p. sweet dude
    Pens win! Pens Win!!! PENS WIN!!!!!

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    22,187
    BG Level
    10

    People are stupid and think the lack of a Shield makes them wet paper bags.

  9. #9
    Running Hell
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,232
    BG Level
    6
    FFXIV Character
    Curly Brace
    FFXIV Server
    Hyperion

    To be fair lack of a shield is kind of a downside. If WAR/DRK weapons had a parry stat on it like shields have block rate it wouldn't be so bad but as it stands the only way to increase parry is to sacrifice secondary stats for damage. Though it is by no means a game breaker. Mitigation is not DRKs issue, it's consistent utility.

  10. #10
    We wear wine red on Wednesdays

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    2,241
    BG Level
    7
    FFXIV Character
    Marius Krieg
    FFXIV Server
    Balmung
    FFXI Server
    Fenrir

    Blitzed to 48. So far i like the play style, the combos are fun and the effects are more satisfying than pld or war. The mp management makes for an interesting style, and ive seen the tp burn in action, for sure. 50 today after i beat the login mini boss then im going to see about running some second and final coil to see what's what.

  11. #11
    Hyperion Cross
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    8,663
    BG Level
    8
    FFXIV Character
    Kai Bond
    FFXIV Server
    Gilgamesh

    Post/share any emo macros you've come across!

  12. #12
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    9,146
    BG Level
    8
    FFXI Server
    Quetzalcoatl

    Quote Originally Posted by Voyage1970 View Post
    I feel like it's going to struggle to find a place in a Raid party setting. Disregarding whatever mitigation tools it has, when it comes to utility it doesn't offer anything unique to warrant bringing it over one of the other tanks. Like you stated with Reprisal being tied to parry our only unique utility skill is limited to MT usage only and even then it isn't reliable nor can you keep it up full time.

    You have to consider that if you bring a DRK over a WAR for OT you lose out on Storm's Eye for your other tank and NIN and Storm's Path for consistent 100% 10% Raid damage reduction. With PLD it's a bit closer but you still lose the only STR down debuff in the game (barring Virus which isn't 100% uptime) and their new AoE Phalanx style shield. The heal is a nice bonus too for emergencies.

    If they had really wanted DRK to have a spot to make you want to pick it they should have removed the INT down from Dragon Kick entirely and made it DRK only. At least then it would have something unique that no other job could replace. They also really need to make Reprisal either a flat 30s oGCD with parries making it a chance to reset a la Low Blows trait or make it a 20s cooldown that requires a parry to activate so we have the potential to keep it up 100% of the time.
    This is kind of what i've been thinking. I'm sure they didn't want it to outright replace one job in the totem pole. Add that to the fact that most new jobs that come out are super OP and then nerfed to match appropriately. I think they were afraid to make drk too op and outright replace pld, so they made it with less to show for it than other jobs (halone debuff, storm's eye/path etc).

    If they made reprisal the way you're suggesting then i think drk gets that perfect little boost it needs where you can be happy with it or any of the other tank jobs without feeling like you're losing out. Right now if i had to build for a raid i'd go war and pld and wouldn't even consider drk.

  13. #13

    Well in a heavy mage set up dark knight does help slightly because of the magic vuln move, although I wish it lasted longer or the CD was shorter. I think it's meant for party comps in which monks aren't present mostly.

  14. #14
    RIDE ARMOR
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    20
    BG Level
    1

    Quote Originally Posted by kisada View Post
    This is kind of what i've been thinking. I'm sure they didn't want it to outright replace one job in the totem pole. Add that to the fact that most new jobs that come out are super OP and then nerfed to match appropriately. I think they were afraid to make drk too op and outright replace pld, so they made it with less to show for it than other jobs (halone debuff, storm's eye/path etc).

    If they made reprisal the way you're suggesting then i think drk gets that perfect little boost it needs where you can be happy with it or any of the other tank jobs without feeling like you're losing out. Right now if i had to build for a raid i'd go war and pld and wouldn't even consider drk.
    I've been focusing almost exclusively on PLD over DRK, but this is roughly the impression I've had with DRK so far.

    However, I'd say that DRK seems to have slightly better magic mitigation, whereas PLD will excel with physical fights. Perhaps they really compliment one another well on a single character? On a more magic fight, say, go DRK, whereas PLD might excel more on a physical-heavy fight.

    That said, I do like their ability to handle both AE and ST threat pretty well. I feel like DRK may end up being better for certain single-tank instances than PLD, and likely better for light party stuff.

  15. #15
    Bagel
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,277
    BG Level
    6
    FFXI Server
    Carbuncle

    Quote Originally Posted by Therin View Post
    People are whining that DRK is squishy on reddit. It's mostly a case of being used to tanks that are >20 levels over the dungeons and now being ~= with the dungeons though, so it should get better.
    Quote Originally Posted by LinktheDeme View Post
    Dark Knight by no means is squishy, they're definitely close to on par with paladin at 50, post 50 I'm not too sure. I really don't get how people are getting such a negative stigma towards DRKs being squishy when they literally have the same stance as PLD and the same GCDS (with sentinel being SLIGHTLY weaker, nothing too noticeable though especially considering it puts DRKs at 50% mitigation)
    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    People are stupid and think the lack of a Shield makes them wet paper bags.

    Quoting the 3 of you because what you say is the most relevant to my experience, I am DRK55 right now and everything said above is the kind of attitude I encountered.

    People seems to believe that DRK isn't worthy of PLD & WAR, many PLD also get butthurt & love to belittle DRK's abilities which is foolish in my opinion. I personaly can't wait to be Lv60 and start making a mix/match of VIT STR (Semi DD build for dungeon) with a more orientated tanking gearset for the rest.

    The DPS potential is very high too, but it is true that the MP & TP management is rough making it hard to play in some situation.

    Overall, what do you guys thinks about the gearsets? I am quite curious here, which is why I came to this thread.

  16. #16
    CustomTitle
    Banned for Duping
    HOT LITTLE SNATCH

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    7,994
    BG Level
    8
    FFXIV Character
    Jam Valesti
    FFXIV Server
    Leviathan

    I've been playing with all attributes in STR and STR accessories (well, 2 crafted i110 with VIT melds) and don't really feel squishy at all. Did some level 50 roulette and did all the big speedrun pulls perfectly fine and the 50~ content so far has been easier than that. Only complaint I have so far is going quickly through dungeons fucks your MP up (since you don't regen much at all between pulls thanks to Darkside), can make initial pulls of fights a bit of a pain if you wind up pulling without enough MP to AoE. I think DRK has by far the hardest mitigation to utilize properly, which might cause first timer tanks picking up DRK to leave a bad impression on people, it's especially bad if you're trying to optimize your damage too. Mana management is really tight when you're trying to utilize all your mitigation tools (Dark Arts on Dark Dance, Dark Passenger and Dark Mind can really fuck with your MP output) and if you're trying to optimize your damage (Dark Arts on Souleater as well as the occasional Power Slash to give you more GCDs to Souleater instead).

    For reference I've also been tanking absolutely everything without using Grit unless it was a huge pull (in which case I turn off Grit once I'm down to like, 4~ mobs). Even tanked the majority of the first 8 man trial fight without Grit on without any problems, turned it on when he was doing his heavy hitters if I didn't have another cooldown for them, otherwise kept it off for most of the fight.

  17. #17

    Tanks in general are going to be squishy 50-60 because every time you level up you're going to take more damage from the same mobs until your armor catches up as well.

    It's retarded that it works like that, but it does.

    I assume people are just pinning it on DRK cause it's a new job and thus the squishyness is attributed to that.

  18. #18

    Also, it is a new job, and a beloved FF job (probably second only to DRG), which means lots and lots of people* playing it.

    *bads

  19. #19
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    9,146
    BG Level
    8
    FFXI Server
    Quetzalcoatl

    what's gonna be annoying is changing people's perceptions that drk is much better off as MT than anything else. i think most people assumed it would be a really good DPS OT, and i'm sure they still do.

  20. #20
    Bagel
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,277
    BG Level
    6
    FFXI Server
    Carbuncle

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiarax View Post
    I've been playing with all attributes in STR and STR accessories (well, 2 crafted i110 with VIT melds) and don't really feel squishy at all. Did some level 50 roulette and did all the big speedrun pulls perfectly fine and the 50~ content so far has been easier than that.
    This does answer some of my questions, thanks ^^ The remaining are, since Dark Passenger/Unmend & Unleash are magical, they take their damage sources in INT?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiarax View Post
    Only complaint I have so far is going quickly through dungeons fucks your MP up (since you don't regen much at all between pulls thanks to Darkside), can make initial pulls of fights a bit of a pain if you wind up pulling without enough MP to AoE.
    Use Blood price, the CD's recast is very low (40 secs), you use it once you're done running as Unleash is a circular AoE, and get 57-70MPs back every time you take a hit, that during 15 secs, basically letting you Unleash for free as you've got 5+ mobs going nuts on you (5x 67-70 = 320MPs+ recovered, Unleash is 304MPs) this + the DMG mitigation CDs.

    I think DRK has by far the hardest mitigation to utilize properly, which might cause first timer tanks picking up DRK to leave a bad impression on people, it's especially bad if you're trying to optimize your damage too. Mana management is really tight when you're trying to utilize all your mitigation tools (Dark Arts on Dark Dance, Dark Passenger and Dark Mind can really fuck with your MP output) and if you're trying to optimize your damage (Dark Arts on Souleater as well as the occasional Power Slash to give you more GCDs to Souleater instead).
    Not so much, some MTG are quite easy to use (methink.)

    For reference I've also been tanking absolutely everything without using Grit unless it was a huge pull (in which case I turn off Grit once I'm down to like, 4~ mobs). Even tanked the majority of the first 8 man trial fight without Grit on without any problems, turned it on when he was doing his heavy hitters if I didn't have another cooldown for them, otherwise kept it off for most of the fight.
    Same here, you can sustain a very good enmity without it unless the DPS are very good at their job or outgearing you badly, I had a BLM with a iLv180 weapon in my PT early, the guy was doing triple flare & I struggled even with Grit on. lol.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 28 1 2 3 11 ... LastLast