Dev Tracker

[arus2001]

It's also a pretty dramatic overstatement of reality. Most RDM/NIN battles were ~20 minutes, not 60. Including travel time, there were a more man-hours involved in "murdering in 2 minutes" with 3 friends than soloing it on RDM/NIN. There were many battles where having one more RDM (or BLM or something) would dramatically speed up the kill, but there were a lot of battles where it added more danger than it was worth.

While it would vary per mob, it was usually, "YOU CAN SOLO GODS, SO SHUT UP ABOUT WANTING NEW SHIT!" which all basically started with a 4 hour tickle fest of Genbu. I was an advocate of WHM healers even before /SCH and saw them handle TP burns just fine if they weren't morons. RDM may have been "EZ Mode" via Refresh/Convert, but I'd blame the target mobs more than the job. Things only got better for WHM over time and if Abyssea-style or even book burning didn't exist today, RDM would probably be neglected if WHM still got all the same love.

I've otherwise not been too keen on the man hours argument, at least when it comes to stuff you could do with 6 people or less. TH was something you wouldn't mind having. And farming god pops had a mix of possible competition and drop rates on top (Going hours for Ro'Maeve water or Diorite shouldn't surprise anyone). And while some people believe pinning a viable strategy, I wouldn't put it in quite the same category as kiting stuff via stuns/gravity/bind/+movement/taking advantage of mobs casting or TPing times. It's pretty much exploiting shitty pathing AI with the prior on top that made some otherwise unlikely solos (more) possible because all you had to do was step one way or the other to make a mob do a u-turn (Faust stands out as an example with most people fleeing to the port, but eventually someone did do him turtle style, but even stuff like that seems pointless post-DNC and such). But SE, in all their infinite wisdom, went on to pimp immunities/resist building while basically going on to leave RDM off gear and give them one of the more shallow growths of the cap increases after years upon years of stagnation.

Nevermind the presence of BLU as a reference to one side the job enthusiasts would like to be closer to, with SCH as the emphasis of the other. I honestly lean more toward being like BLU in RDM's own little ways, but suggesting such usually leads to bitch fits about the old days where "RDM had it good, so fuck you now!" or the SCH-types feeling as if they'd be totally alienated even more than they are now. Oh, and nobody would ever play anything other than RDM, nevermind 2-hander formula, weapon/WS/gear restictions, native JAs/traits, blah blah, basically not the end of the world scenarios other people chicken little from that end of the spectrum. Either way, the old days and all they bring are a rotting zombie carcass feasting upon the still-twitching corpse of today's RDM. Coincidentally, playing the role of a zombie was used by people who tried to solo Berith for their chapeaus, too. Go fig.

[Byrthnoth]

Okay, but things like ZNMs, farming Sky pops, Apollyon NW, etc. was all gunning for 100% drops and I can't think of any of those fights that took longer than ~30 minutes. I wouldn't personally have killed Genbu without TH, but I know a RDM that financed their Excalibur by soloing Zip, Faust, Despot, Ulli, etc. I built a lot of ZNM sets on RDM/NIN. The job has durability, mob-avoidance, and a moderate amount of magic damage. Those things aren't really needed anymore, though.

[scaevola]

...Except the overall damage done really isn't lower. At all. That's the point, someone said PUP's damage sucks compared to BST in dynamis, which is incredibly false, I'm simply correcting them. BST really has no tools to outdamage PUP on anything with their incredibly weak pets and mediocore axe DoT (ruinator isn't the answer, because it's not any better than weaponskills PUP can use and doesn't offer aftermath or anything special, and DoT inbetween ruinators will still fall behind)

I don't see how hard that is to understand

But then you either have to back that up with numbers you don't have on hand or rely on silly statements like "DoT between weaponskills" (because even if his Ruinators aren't always beating your Smites, his Ruinators plus Backheel almost certainly are) or the idea that 250-300 damage a hit from Falcorr on the EPs I assume we're talking about isn't closing the gap between his axes and your aftermath. It doesn't matter who's right, because nobody cares enough to produce numbers and more importantly both are more than capable of putting out more damage than either's proc ability can possibly keep up with.

My point is that assuming you aren't just trying to troll people, you could avoid all that murky shit by saying "passive WS proccing" and be done with it. I don't doubt for a second PUP's damage in Dynamis is competitive with BSTs for a variety of reasons, but that's not why it's a top-tier job in there.

[Plow]

why would you backheel when you can proc 5 mobs at once with choke breath

seriously who cares about damage in dynamis?

ruinator, smite, (insert random blu spell), who cares, they're all going to 1shot as soon as you proc

[Slycer]

I'll ask again if we can officially change the name of this thread to just "Dev Tracker" without the date. I don't know why the date is still on there but it looks kind of ridiculous.

Other than that, here are some actually interesting pieces of info from the JP side. Sounds like neo-Salvage testing starts tomorrow.


1) Regarding the Determination of Random Deal

If an ability is divided via a selection hierarchy into multiple types, such as Phantom Roll, the Random Deal restoration determination is made by counting all of the abilities within the hierarchy, rather than just one ability.

Therefore, because of the number of different rolls, Phantom Roll is significantly more likely to be chosen when it is waiting on recast, and this really is unreasonable from a probability point of view. We will make the change in a future version update so that all of the rolls are viewed as one ability from the point of view of Random Deal. In addition to Phantom Roll, we will make these changes to other grouped abilities such as Sambas, Jumps, Waltzes, etc.

This will not make it in time for the September version update, but it is one of the goals of the following update. We will continue working on it, so please wait for it.


2) Plans for Introducing Salvage to the Test Server

Here is some information regarding plans for the test server on the higher tier Salvage expansion.

In this week's test server update, we will first add the new Zhayolm Remnants. The entrance will be the same Gilded Gateway as the old Zhayolm Remnants.

In this update, the probability of pathos release, the monster strength, and drop items have not yet been fully adjusted, so all of these elements are subject to change. In addition, the notorious monsters that only appear under certain conditions will not yet appear on the test server.

We would appreciate your feedback because this will be a significant change from the first salvage, and we are especially looking at the mechanism of pathos removal.

In addition, for the test server, the following settings have been adjusted:
*You may enter with only one person.
*You can participate with or without a salvage permit as you will automatically receive one upon examining the Gilded Gateway.
*You do not need to wait for re-entry.

After you try everything out, please provide some feedback!

[NynJa]

Testing the mechanics of random pathos unlock with only one person seems like a bug will go unnoticed.

[Slycer]

I would imagine one person would find it difficult to progress at all if the difficulty was adjusted upwards for level 99 to match what old Salvage was at level 75. They probably did it more for the sake of a duo (dd+healer) but just left it open in case people wanted to try solo also. If nothing else, you could at least see how the starting unlocks work.

[Kaisha]

Could always get a BG group together to do a run or two. Not doing anything here tomorrow so I'm game for seeing what new NM spawn bullshit is introduced.

[Slycer]

Could always get a BG group together to do a run or two. Not doing anything here tomorrow so I'm game for seeing what new NM spawn bullshit is introduced.

Not yet... (unless I really botched the translation).

In this update, the probability of pathos release, the monster strength, and drop items have not yet been fully adjusted, so all of these elements are subject to change. In addition, the notorious monsters that only appear under certain conditions will not yet appear on the test server.

But yeah, would still be fun to mess around I guess.

[Cesaria]

In this update, the probability of pathos release, the monster strength, and drop items have not yet been fully adjusted, so all of these elements are subject to change. In addition, the notorious monsters that only appear under certain conditions will not yet appear on the test server.

That's nothing new - they don't appear on the flipping normal server half the time either (yes ramparts I'm looking at YOU).

[Deadgye]

As soon as people got past the dependency on Refresh, the entire house of cards collapsed and people realized that Red Mage was really just a one-trick pony. But maybe I am bitter from so many years of casting Refresh over and over and over again for 3.5 hours twice a week. >_>

At 75 even without refresh rdm was definitely more than a one-trick pony. That solo-ability was really nice; if you spent some time at some smart farming locations you were able to rack in a lot of gil. And rdm/nin(?) was actually a decent tank for endgame mobs lol. Although you were probably talking about after the level cap raise in which half(all?) that shit stopped mattering because older content became ez-mode.

At the very least, they didn't take away your pimp hat!

edit: Also, am I the only one who keeps thinking I have malware on my computer every time I come here because of the auto- wiki links? lol

[Septimus]

At 75 even without refresh rdm was definitely more than a one-trick pony. That solo-ability was really nice; if you spent some time at some smart farming locations you were able to rack in a lot of gil. And rdm/nin(?) was actually a decent tank for endgame mobs lol. Although you were probably talking about after the level cap raise in which half(all?) that shit stopped mattering because older content became ez-mode.

At the very least, they didn't take away your pimp hat!

edit: Also, am I the only one who keeps thinking I have malware on my computer every time I come here because of the auto- wiki links? lol

Solo ability didn't matter in end-game and RDM tanking was nerfed long before the announcement that they were going to raise the level cap, plus was never as good as people claimed it was. It took forever for a RDM to gain up enough hate to tank properly and would die in a few hits if shadows went down (looking at you, Absolute Terror), whereas a PLD could get hate incredibly quickly and could take a beating when shadows went down. (Two Horrid Roars and groups using RDM tanks had complete chaos- in the time between two Horrid Roars the PLD that received the first roar was close to capped hate again.)

[Deadgye]

Hmm, was pld/rdm surprisingly good at tanking in endgame? If it was then I probably mixed shit up. Solo ability definitely mattered at end-game though. A lot of the best gear was still craftable/buyable/etc so being able to make money was nice.

[Guitarman]

Yeah soloing serket for the V. claw was a very profitable venture for a long, long time.

[Tarage]

Also, am I the only one who keeps thinking I have malware on my computer every time I come here because of the auto- wiki links? lol

You can turn it off.

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/112...I-Link-Parsing

Really, it needs to be stickied. Sept, can you pin it?

[ryskar]

why would you backheel when you can proc 5 mobs at once with choke breath

seriously who cares about damage in dynamis?

ruinator, smite, (insert random blu spell), who cares, they're all going to 1shot as soon as you proc

Good luck trying to hold five mobs at once. Three is the limit of my patience for beastmasters, and I'm not the only one that feels this way.

[pchan]

And rdm/nin(?) was actually a decent tank for endgame mobs lol.

Wrong, it's mostly because 99% of the DD of fafnir camper sucked balls, and their PLD sucked even more. There is no way a rdm could get hate from ANY DD unless they were purposely holding damage or TA isng, or some dumb shit. In summary, mnk/nin or bust. All the RDM tanking thing is a giant wet dream coming from avesta wannabe, mostly from this site, and the whole rdm/nin soling sky NMs has basically zero utility : THF/NIN + RDM/WHM is a lot better. The best money maker of those days were THF/NIN+RDM/WHM selling shellbusters from castle zwhal to npc, it was maybe 100k an hour and didn't rely on selling anything at the AH.

[Taint]

Wrong, it's mostly because 99% of the DD of fafnir camper sucked balls, and their PLD sucked even more. There is no way a rdm could get hate from ANY DD unless they were purposely holding damage or TA isng, or some dumb shit. In summary, mnk/nin or bust. All the RDM tanking thing is a giant wet dream coming from avesta wannabe, mostly from this site, and the whole rdm/nin soling sky NMs has basically zero utility : THF/NIN + RDM/WHM is a lot better. The best money maker of those days were THF/NIN+RDM/WHM selling shellbusters from castle zwhal to npc, it was maybe 100k an hour and didn't rely on selling anything at the AH.

Wat? RDM/NIN was a good tank at 75 before the nerf. They could cap hate faster then any other job. They could also hold mobs solo which was a big deal back then since mobs weren't popped but camped, claimed and then ran to.

MNK was rarely used on any HNM when RDM was considered a tank.

[pchan]

Wat? RDM/NIN was a good tank at 75 before the nerf. They could cap hate faster then any other job. .

Nope a DD was capping hate faster. The ratio damage > hate conversion is very fast so unless you only used thf as DD, nope. What you say only happened to mobs that you don't DD like oryou,jol and such.

[Nightfyre]

Solo ability didn't matter in end-game and RDM tanking was nerfed long before the announcement that they were going to raise the level cap, plus was never as good as people claimed it was. It took forever for a RDM to gain up enough hate to tank properly and would die in a few hits if shadows went down (looking at you, Absolute Terror), whereas a PLD could get hate incredibly quickly and could take a beating when shadows went down. (Two Horrid Roars and groups using RDM tanks had complete chaos- in the time between two Horrid Roars the PLD that received the first roar was close to capped hate again.)

wat

Also seriously, we get it, you (you specifically) were a refresh bitch at 75 cap. You can stop bringing it up every time somebody utters the words "Red Mage", we got the point years ago.