TP Bonus and Magian WS DMG Bonus

[Byrthnoth]

If people were looking for more proof that TP Bonus and WS Damage weapon +2s work the way they're rumored to, these Aeolian Edges were all done against Wild Rabbits on DNC/SAM with Meditate + 2FM Reverse Flourish (100 TP):

* Twashtar/WSDamage+10% Fusetto +1 : 408 Aeolian Edge
* Twashtar/Nothing : 408 Aeolian Edge
* Twashtar/TP Bonus +100 Fusetto +2 : 511 Aeolian Edge
:: CEILING((408-32)/2.75) = 137 base damage
:: FLOOR(137*3.5)+32 = 511 damage with 100 TP Bonus in offhand
* Martial/TP Bonus Fusetto +2 (with +15 DEX in gear) : 580 Aeolian Edge
:: 137*4 + 32 = 580 with 200 TP Bonus total

116 TP, Sekka->Aeolian Edge
* Twashtar/TP Bonus +100 Fusetto +2 : 408 damage
:: So it interacts with Sekka the same way Martial Knife's TP Bonus always has.

[Masamune]

* Twashtar/WSDamage+10% Fusetto +1 : 408 Aeolian Edge
* Twashtar/Nothing : 408 Aeolian Edge
* Twashtar/TP Bonus +100 Fusetto +2 : 511 Aeolian Edge
:: CEILING((408-32)/2.75) = 137 base damage
:: FLOOR(137*3.5)+32 = 511 damage with 100 TP Bonus in offhand
* Martial/TP Bonus Fusetto +2 (with +15 DEX in gear) : 580 Aeolian Edge
:: 137*4 + 32 = 580 with 200 TP Bonus total

116 TP, Sekka->Aeolian Edge
* Twashtar/TP Bonus +100 Fusetto +2 : 408 damage
:: So it interacts with Sekka the same way Martial Knife's TP Bonus always has.

Maybe i missed something, but those tests are kinda contradicting themselves:
1st one shows clearly WSdmg+10% in offhand don't add anything for eleWS.
But 2nd and 3rd tests shows TPbonus offhand adds dmg to the WS...

If the hypothesis "offhanding WSdmg or TPbonus magian weapons won't add anything to your WS" is what you were searching to prove, i would say to redo 1st test with a physical WS (since they accounts for offhand dmg while eleWS ignore offhand). IMHO, 2nd and 3rd tests are correct and prove the hypothesis wrong.

Plz tell me if i missed something?

[Byrthnoth]

Maybe i missed something, but those tests are kinda contradicting themselves:
1st one shows clearly WSdmg+10% in offhand don't add anything for eleWS.
But 2nd and 3rd tests shows TPbonus offhand adds dmg to the WS...

If the hypothesis "offhanding WSdmg or TPbonus magian weapons won't add anything to your WS" is what you were searching to prove, i would say to redo 1st test with a physical WS (since they accounts for offhand dmg while eleWS ignore offhand). IMHO, 2nd and 3rd tests are correct and prove the hypothesis wrong.

Plz tell me if i missed something?

The Hypothesis was:
WS Damage+10% doesn't work offhand, but TP Bonus +100 does. That's what it shows.

[Masamune]

Ok but then are we sure eleWS does NOT ignore dmg from offhand ? because then 1st test isnot conclusive.

Would make much more sense in terms of implementation to have "ALL offhand stats works" with only relics/mythics/empy as exceptions ?

I meant would there a way to confirm 1st test with a Phys WS ? (since Phys WSs accounts for offhand dmg/tp)

EDIT: if another test shows WSdmg offhand works for Phys WSs, might be a superb bug to report @ SE for eleWS and those magian weapons ?

[Byrthnoth]

We know that some stats are randomly weapon-specific (Critical Hit Rate, for instance), and it looks like WS damage is another one of them. I'm not going to make another dagger to show that's true, but you're welcomed to if you want to.

To clarify, WS Damage +10% turns into TP Bonus +100, so I can't easily go out and repeat the test without WSing several hundred times.

[Masamune]

Yep i remembered the crit katana Senjuinrikio, after posting, bit it still "works" offhanded in terms of added critrate for WS right ?

Sadly, i don't have rng or cor lvld to test with a ranged WS and WSdmg+10% offhand weapon

[Byrthnoth]

I don't think anyone ever or mathematically proved Senju doesn't give Jin a crit bonus when offhanded, but rumor was that it didn't. That's why people would go Senju/Fudo instead of Fudo/Senju.

It's kind of verified by Jupiter's Staff, which doesn't affect ranged attacks, or Martial Weapons, which don't work when offhanded. Also Ranged Martial weapons (like bow) won't affect melee WSs, and the reverse. There are just some things that only work if you're WSing with the actual weapon, and WS Damage +10%, Crit Rate, and Martial Weapon TP Bonus seem to be included.

[Masamune]

ok so safe to say "nothing (as stats) from offhanded weapon will work for WS, except TPbonus" ?

[Byrthnoth]

I don't know. I think things like Attack and STR affect both hands no matter what. Crit damage+% affects both hands and ranged attacks. The melee/ranged distinction is probably an easy way to test. If you put on a STR Dagger and your ranged damage goes up, then it affects everything and not just the hand it's in. You can tell Jupiter's Staff doesn't affect ranged attacks because it's impossible to force a 100% crit rate using it.

Related to that, wouldn't it be pretty easy to test Gandiva's Crit rate bonus? If Ranged Crit damage is almost deterministic, the fact that it's 3 hits would just mean you get an N of 3 per WS. Go to a Visions zone (like Konschtat saplings), level a monster population up to EM, TP stuff up to about 100 TP and WS an EM monster from the same distance every time. By looking at your TP return and the damage done, it should be easy to tell how many hits of Jishnu's crit.

[Masamune]

... You can tell Jupiter's Staff doesn't affect ranged attacks because it's impossible to force a 100% crit rate using it.

Where is the test? im curious.

[Byrthnoth]

If I remember right, a testimony to the effect of "Why are you guys all using Jupiter's with Gandiva? I couldn't force a 100% crit rate with it." showed up in the Post Your Gear thread. I can go repeat it tonight though on Dancer.

Jupiter's (15%), Base (25%), Razed Ruins (30%), Gnarled Horn (20%), Scorpion Queen (10%) would give me a 100% ranged attack crit rate if Jupiter's worked.

As a control, I can use Base (25%) + Razed Ruins (30%) + Rancor Collar (5%) + Gnarled Horn (20%) + Dark Depths (20%) = 100% ranged crit rate.

[dasva]

It's kind of verified by Jupiter's Staff, which doesn't affect ranged attacks, or Martial Weapons, which don't work when offhanded. Also Ranged Martial weapons (like bow) won't affect melee WSs, and the reverse. There are just some things that only work if you're WSing with the actual weapon, and WS Damage +10%, Crit Rate, and Martial Weapon TP Bonus seem to be included.

What about magian tp bonus ranged weapons working on melee ws or reverse?

[Byrthnoth]

What about magian tp bonus ranged weapons working on melee ws or reverse?

Both ways should work, though I can't test it out because there aren't throwing WSs.

[dasva]

You made dagger right? You could do thf/rng and test reflugent arrow. Probably one of the few ranged ws that would actually benefit from tp bonus that isn't rng/cor onry

[Byrthnoth]

THF 49 =p

[dasva]

Guess I'll just have to finish my bow and do some rng Aeolian edges lol

[Kirschy]

Just to add a note, Nayla of Fenrir has been doing some Ranged Crit Rate testing, and it seems as though ranged crit rate works differently than melee crit. She hasn't finished testing though~