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Thread: Comments from the Devs     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #201
    D. Ring
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    RMT are the minority. Designing your game to combat RMT is as stupid as declaring war on terrorism. Players in that thread saying if they took fatigue out the economy would fail or whatever are fucking stupid for two reasons:

    1. No other mmorpg has gathering fatigue like this game. It does not matter whether it is a class on its own or not. It's still a number on your scorecard.

    2. The economy is already is shambles WITH fatigue.

    I don't know what is more unappealing at this point; SE's stupidity about game design or the dumb players who presumably have their hands on the steering wheel now.

  2. #202
    Vuitton
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    They might say RMT but they're also thinking about bots, which there are quite a lot of. The gathering fatigue system prevents people from botting 24/7. Instead they can only do it 4-5 hours a day, if they're only after items (rank 50 gatherers). It prevents them from flooding the market place with certain items, and allows real players to meet them on even terms since both the real player and the bot are working with the same number of attempts.

  3. #203
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    There are many other ways to prevent RMT activities. Limiting legitimate players is not the way to do it. They seem to think that since it "worked" in XI, it will work here, but it didn't "work" there and this game is totally different than XI anyway.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Jorildyn View Post
    RMT are the minority.
    Yet their potential effects on the economy can be devastating. Terrorism is an annoying fly you can't keep from biting your skin, RMT can ruin a game's economy.

    That said, this is a remnant from the release and beta, not something new or shocking by any means. Back then it made more sense to have a way to combat RMT. Not anymore, no, they simply haven't put resources into removing the feature yet. Also other MMO's economy =/= this MMO's economy.

    It only worked in XI because they changed the economy into something much closer to other MMO's (and I don't see why you think it didn't work there- after a while the only annoying aspect of RMT was the random /tells at worst). Which is something they didn't want to resort to doing here, because of DoL and DoH.

  5. #205
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    lol that means i'm never coming back with a stupid fatigue system like that. Hire some fucking active GM's who, you know, do their fucking jobs by keeping tabs on people, check into the 1000's of reports of the same 5 people that are seen doing strange shit then permaban those people if enough evidence is found.

    Its simple, hire a group of people like the "Special Task Force" install some tools where it makes investigation's fast and thorough then when you have enough evidence of people botting permaban them, confiscate the accounts. To design an entire game on the purpose of "this will discourage rmt!" is bad bad design, this is why you have a fucking GM service, put those guys to work instead of trying to cut corners which is why this game is in the state it is in the first fucking place.


    The amount of stupidity this company has blows my mind, its no wonder SE was down 89% profits in 2010.

  6. #206
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    The amount of retards in that gathering thread is worrying. I sure hope SE don't listen to them or the game will never recover. The economy is in a mess as it is and these people want to make it ten times worse.

    It doesn't matter whether RMT exists or not, the minute you allow unlimited materials to flood into the game is the minute you lose the economy at the ground level. When mat prices are worthless, everything above that becomes worthless too. SE really fucked up with that dev post because RMT isn't the only reason gathering fatigue exists. Any player with an ounce of common sense and knowledge of economics can see that.

    I can't believe there's people seriously suggesting that it would be fine to allow a player to go out and fetch 500 iron ores or walnut logs into the economy in a single session. They'd be the first ones pissing and screaming about them being worthless when they have to sell them for little more than the NPC price. Even with fatigue in place the prices of many gathered materials are starting to become worthless. This would have happened a week after launch if you could gather unlimited amounts.

    Since people are bitching SE will probably listen to these retards. They'll get what they want; the removal of gathering fatigue, but they'll make gathering a pain in the arse for people who just want to go out and farm some mats. SE will limit all gathered items to a cap of 1 just like gems and gold mats currently are. The ones currently set at 1 will become rarer. You will get more trash and you will spend 2-3 times as long gathering for the amount of mats you get now, but hey you won't have fatigue to bitch about so it's all good for you right?! Because you want to sit and spend 10 hours a day gathering without penalty.

    Unfortunately the majority of people on those forums have no intention of playing the game, ever (I think there's some on here too). They're still butt hurt and bitter that they wasted money on a game that sucked at launch so they bitch and whine about everything. They'll bitch and whine about every change made too. They won't be happy with anything less than SE handing them a character with all jobs maxed out, unlimited anima, unlimited gil and items for free. Anything less isn't good enough. Until you can one shot a mob for a million SP they'll bitch about the rate of SP being too low. Until you can do one local leve and max a craft they'll whine about SP being too low. Until they can sit there flooding the economy until every item is worthless they'll whine about limitations on mats entering the market. The list goes on and it's clear all over the forums.

    SE are going from one extreme to the other. There's not listening to players at all and then there's listening to players too much. Both are bad. SE needs to find some balance somewhere in there.

  7. #207
    Vuitton
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
    The amount of retards in that gathering thread is worrying. I sure hope SE don't listen to them or the game will never recover. The economy is in a mess as it is and these people want to make it ten times worse.

    It doesn't matter whether RMT exists or not, the minute you allow unlimited materials to flood into the game is the minute you lose the economy at the ground level. When mat prices are worthless, everything above that becomes worthless too. SE really fucked up with that dev post because RMT isn't the only reason gathering fatigue exists. Any player with an ounce of common sense and knowledge of economics can see that.

    I can't believe there's people seriously suggesting that it would be fine to allow a player to go out and fetch 500 iron ores or walnut logs into the economy in a single session. They'd be the first ones pissing and screaming about them being worthless when they have to sell them for little more than the NPC price. Even with fatigue in place the prices of many gathered materials are starting to become worthless. This would have happened a week after launch if you could gather unlimited amounts.

    Since people are bitching SE will probably listen to these retards. They'll get what they want; the removal of gathering fatigue, but they'll make gathering a pain in the arse for people who just want to go out and farm some mats. SE will limit all gathered items to a cap of 1 just like gems and gold mats currently are. The ones currently set at 1 will become rarer. You will get more trash and you will spend 2-3 times as long gathering for the amount of mats you get now, but hey you won't have fatigue to bitch about so it's all good for you right?! Because you want to sit and spend 10 hours a day gathering without penalty.

    Unfortunately the majority of people on those forums have no intention of playing the game, ever (I think there's some on here too). They're still butt hurt and bitter that they wasted money on a game that sucked at launch so they bitch and whine about everything. They'll bitch and whine about every change made too. They won't be happy with anything less than SE handing them a character with all jobs maxed out, unlimited anima, unlimited gil and items for free. Anything less isn't good enough. Until you can one shot a mob for a million SP they'll bitch about the rate of SP being too low. Until you can do one local leve and max a craft they'll whine about SP being too low. Until they can sit there flooding the economy until every item is worthless they'll whine about limitations on mats entering the market. The list goes on and it's clear all over the forums.

    SE are going from one extreme to the other. There's not listening to players at all and then there's listening to players too much. Both are bad. SE needs to find some balance somewhere in there.
    Some common sense, oh my god. In addition, I doubt anyone complaining about gathering fatigue is even gathering that much. They just see the word fatigue and think "their freedom" is being encroached upon, even when its not. SE's stated goal has been to make this game "casual friendly" or whatever, so of course this gathering fatigue fits into that goal, because it allows people with little time to walk away from gathering with something to show for it. Then you have the anti-fatigue people who probably aren't even gathering in the first place, let alone doing it at a speed to gather 250 times successfully before they run into a wall, that want to gather for longer than 4 hours straight within a 24 hour period? Sounds pretty boring to me, but whatever. It means you want to sell what you're gathering for a profit, and too bad if you could gather endlessly you'll make no profit because the market will be flooded. So this "anti-gathering fatigue" shit is basically illogical. The points brought up to argue against it result in more issues (bigger issues, ex: the economy) than it solves.

  8. #208
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    People have a point when they complain about crafter/battle fatigue but gathering fatigue is useful. The wards would be infinitely flooded with mats if people could run their bots 24/7.

  9. #209
    Falcom is better than SE. Change my mind.
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    The fails I don't mind much, but getting my XP halved due to it is another story.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vuitton View Post
    Some common sense, oh my god. In addition, I doubt anyone complaining about gathering fatigue is even gathering that much. They just see the word fatigue and think "their freedom" is being encroached upon, even when its not. SE's stated goal has been to make this game "casual friendly" or whatever, so of course this gathering fatigue fits into that goal, because it allows people with little time to walk away from gathering with something to show for it. Then you have the anti-fatigue people who probably aren't even gathering in the first place, let alone doing it at a speed to gather 250 times successfully before they run into a wall, that want to gather for longer than 4 hours straight within a 24 hour period? Sounds pretty boring to me, but whatever. It means you want to sell what you're gathering for a profit, and too bad if you could gather endlessly you'll make no profit because the market will be flooded. So this "anti-gathering fatigue" shit is basically illogical. The points brought up to argue against it result in more issues (bigger issues, ex: the economy) than it solves.
    I got nothing against item gathering fatigue that SE has made. It makes sense, it goes away fairly quickly and is completely gone the next day. What I do have an issue with is how the fatigue also hampers my ability to rank up on top of the Skill gain fatigue we have now. They need to find a solution where they can limit the flow of items into the market, while still allowing people to rank up without issue. Maybe make it where in the cases you could fish up/log/mine an item, the person loses the item but still gets full skill up points for the duty on a full gathering fatigue. Rank 45+ is already miserably slow for miners and botanists because we don't have any grade 6 nodes right now. To make it even harder in a grind session is just frustrating to say the least.

  11. #211
    Falcom is better than SE. Change my mind.
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    And on a minor note, NA team is trying to ask devs about more transportation methods: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ll=1#post76347

  12. #212
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    I liked one idea I read where there's a second kind of fail. You still get half SP for a genuine fail but if you hit the item correctly and failed because of fatigue then you get the full SP.

    I did notice a lot of people whining about gathering fatigue either hadn't levelled a DoL past 20. You get a lot more mats as your rank increases as you hit higher item caps. For example I couldn't get more than 3 logs per gather until I hit 3, now I can get 5. Maybe these players just don't feel they're getting many mats at the low ranks and want to gather for longer, I don't know. But you have to play a gathering class for longer than that to understand how your gathering is affecting the economy. Or use a bit common sense to see that flooding a market with any item is going to crash the price, it's not just specific to gathering. The laws of supply and demand.

    SE's explanation of fatigue should have been about limitations on item flow to help the economy, not RMT. Even if RMT is one of the reasons it's not the goal behind it. It does stop RMT gathering but that's a side effect to me. It takes months to rank up a gathering class to 50 and a ban on any RMT gatherer is a lot of time wasted. If they could gather items 24/7 then it's a whole other situation and would be way more viable to RMTs.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
    I'm in full support of gathering fatigue. I posted why on the forums but in case you don't go there...

    "As a 40 MIN and 31 BTN I know how fast you can gather items. It would destroy the economy on mats if a player could go gather items all day. I am in full support of this fatigue.

    However, I don't believe a failed gather should give half SP. There should always be the option for a DoL player to rank up their class at a reasonable rate and a system designed to harm RMT should not penalise players who want to do this."

    "If they got rid of gathering fatigue they would have to significantly reduce the amount of items obtained per gather. So how would you feel getting one log per gather, or one iron ore per gather maximum? How would you feel having to mine or log for eight hours to get what currently takes three?

    You simply can't have it both ways. No matter which method SE uses, there HAS to be a limit on the amount of items a single gatherer can bring into the economy each day."
    It doesn't help that you need tons of items for every single craft so the class remains crucial and thus subject to additional restrictions....

  14. #214
    Justin Bieber
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    materials are already flooded in market even with the current fatigue and they are not going away fast enough (in my server at least).

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toth View Post
    It doesn't help that you need tons of items for every single craft so the class remains crucial and thus subject to additional restrictions....
    This was it for me. To have to carry around 3,000 exact material types (this type of dye for this type of cloth, to make this type of dyed cloth, to mix with this type of dyed strap, to mix with this type of thread, to make this color item, instead of simply MAKING THE ITEM, THEN DYING IT AFTERWARDS) kind of necessitates a constant stream of goods coming into the game.

    Crafting was simply too tedious for me to continue with. I actually liked the minigame, but having to sort through 3,000 kinds of minuscule items, regardless of how easy it may be now, back then, just burned me out of really ever wanting to try to poke my head back into doing it again. Shit was bad, yo.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
    This was it for me. To have to carry around 3,000 exact material types (this type of dye for this type of cloth, to make this type of dyed cloth, to mix with this type of dyed strap, to mix with this type of thread, to make this color item, instead of simply MAKING THE ITEM, THEN DYING IT AFTERWARDS) kind of necessitates a constant stream of goods coming into the game.

    Crafting was simply too tedious for me to continue with. I actually liked the minigame, but having to sort through 3,000 kinds of minuscule items, regardless of how easy it may be now, back then, just burned me out of really ever wanting to try to poke my head back into doing it again. Shit was bad, yo.
    Well said. I liked trying it out at first but the amount of items for just a simple hempen cloak (5 items?) really turned me off quite quickly. Why does a fantasy game have to be so realistic lol

  17. #217
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    I wonder how they're setting up DoL & DoH for the company thing. I think they'll start testing the patch any day now.

  18. #218
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    Man....I had hoped that I might have been able to casually play this game when i got back from Afghanistan, but it seems I'm going to be let down. I'm not trolling when I say this but this struggling game has been on going now for 7? months. When can they just take the graphics engine (which, for the most part has been the single thing they did right), and port it into an entirely different MMO?

    I jump on here after 2 months of being out of the loop and find that nothing has really changed. It's disheartening (a practical fan boy am I) to see this game be given up on, but if anything the blemish on the series has potential to make the rest, and the next, shine that much more.
    Compared to a car wreck, this game seems like it's been "totaled" and yet they still want to repair and straighten every dent and busted hose, instead of taking the loss and getting a new vehicle.

    I understand they've lost a ton of money, but seeing the conversations about the dev team going back and forth on game play aspects, based on the publics out cry isn't going net them the player base they need to create a fun and profitable experience. I say let it be relegated to an experience of things not to do, and completely move on to the next big thing (I.E. an MMO that fit's into the same proven mold with certain aspects that set it apart from the rest, i mean shit they almost can do that with just chocobo's and red mages)

  19. #219
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    I jump on here after 2 months of being out of the loop and find that nothing has really changed.
    Changing the management and restarting the development was a risky move, but this tells us nothing about their commitment to the game. It tells us that they changed the management and restarted the development.

    Shit, if they completely mess up the April & May patches then there is not much they can do. But I don't see why they shouldn't try. At this point, it's not away from us.

  20. #220
    Falcom is better than SE. Change my mind.
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    Loot system might get reworked in the future: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...6990#post76990

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