Magic

[Yugl]

General

Blue Magic
Physical
Magic-Breath
Magic-Nuke
Magic-Enfeeble
Magic-Enhancing

Dark Magic
Absorb-Spells
Aspir and Drain
CDF's Blog, Magic Section
Bio
Other

Divine Magic
AoE (Aga)
Single Nuke (Banish and Holy)
Enfeebles
Enhancements

Elemental Magic
AoE (Aga)
AoE (Aja)
Ancient Magic
Single Nuke (TI-TV)
Blizz5 V value
Helix
Elemental Debuffs (Rasp and such)

Enfeebling Magic
Black Magic
White Magic

Enhancing magic
Black Magic
White Magic

Healing Magic
Cure and Raise
Ailment Removal

Ninjutsu
Nukes
Enfeeble
Enhancing

Song
String
Wind
Singing
General

Summoning Magic
Diabolos
Odin
Alexander
Carbuncle
Ramuh
Ifrit
Garuda
Leviathan
Shiva
Titan
Fenrir
Elemental Spirits

[Yugl]

Ya, just quote all of it (Minus the unimportant talk) into one post and delete the rest.

[Byrthnoth]

Can you check the perpetuation cost with and without the Magic Damage staff, to see if the penalty is as specific as the bonus?

[Yugl]

NVM! Forgot SMN was LV12ish still; I'll get someone else to run the test for me though.

[Cymmina]

Naked 90 SMN, Garuda costs -12 per tick. Add Vayu's +2 (Damage +5), still -12. Switch to Varuna's +2 (Damage +5), still -12.

Once you advance beyond the Affinity+1 stage, none of the Magian staves have the generic "Affinity" in their description anymore.

[Tachi]

I have not done much testing but Bio III has been buffed. 13 hp/tick now at 291 Dark Magic Skill (which still seems to be the maximum cap) no matter how many merits you put. Bio II did not changed though.

[Mougurijin]

Also, since i was wondering maybe AcridStream uses an fMND instead of an fINT, i made some Divine nukes on rabbits for following dmg values :
Spell DMGdealt
Banish 103
Banish2 308
Banish3 577
Banishga 203
Banishga2 462
Holy 373
with WHM90/blm45 INT94 MND110 MAB20%(trait)+18%(gears) ApolloStaff
Calculated DMG don't match if i follow wiki numbers...

WAR/war lvl1 MND rank=D yields MND=6 (if formulas stay the same at this low lvl)

All six results you got are spot on going by otherwiki, which I assume you were talking about as bgwiki doesn't seem to have divine nuke M and V values.
I personally put the correct M and V values for divine nukes on otherwiki, and all your results check out fine.

The reason you calculated incorrect results might be because /blm45 has MAB24% trait, not 20%.

Here are the results I tested last year, which I put on otherwiki.

Banish:      V=14  M=1.0 InflectionPoint=dMND+25  Cap D=64  (dMND+75)
Banish II:   V=85  M=1.0 InflectionPoint=dMND+113 Cap D=311 (dMND+339)
Banish III:  V=198 M=1.5 InflectionPoint=???      Cap D=???
Banishga:    V=50  M=1.0 InflectionPoint=dMND+46  Cap D=142 (dMND+138)
Banishga II: V=180 M=1.0 InflectionPoint=dMND+133 Cap D=446 (dMND+399)
Holy:        V=125 M=1.0 InflectionPoint=???      Cap D=???

At the time I don't think I could even reach the inflection points for Banish III or Holy.
Getting 139 MND to reach the Banishga II inflection point as a lv85 Tarutaru vs. a 6MND mob was hard enough! :P

[Mougurijin]

I've never seen anywhere which says the dINT inflection points and D caps for each spell.
If you're following a spell damage formula in trying to calculate how much damage your spell will do before you cast it, it's like you're meant to guess when your dINT might pass the "inflection point", with each +1 dINT after this point being worth half, +0.5.

This is all from what I tested around a year ago:
Inflection point = can be found where D reaches exactly half-way between the value of V and the capped value of D.
Cap D = can be found by multiplying the Inflection Point dINT value by 2, then multipy by M, then add the value of V.

There's also an interesting pattern in the inflection point values too:

Stone:        V=10  M=1.0 InflectionPoint=dINT+16  Cap D=42   (dINT+48)
Water:        V=16  M=1.0 InflectionPoint=dINT+25  Cap D=66   (dINT+75)
Aero:         V=25  M=1.0 InflectionPoint=dINT+35  Cap D=95   (dINT+105)
Fire:         V=35  M=1.0 InflectionPoint=dINT+46  Cap D=127  (dINT+138)

From this point on, all caps were untested and assumed as: 2 * InflectionPoint * M + V

Blizzard:     V=46  M=1.0 InflectionPoint=dINT+60  Cap D=166  (dINT+180)
Thunder:      V=60  M=1.0 InflectionPoint=dINT+78  Cap D=216  (dINT+234)
Stone II:     V=78  M=1.0 InflectionPoint=dINT+95  Cap D=268  (dINT+285)
Water II:     V=95  M=1.0 InflectionPoint=dINT+113 Cap D=321  (dINT+339)
Aero II:      V=113 M=1.0 InflectionPoint=dINT+133 Cap D=379  (dINT+399)

From this point on, all inflection points are untested and assumed according to the obvious pattern above:

Fire II:      V=133 M=1.0 InflectionPoint=dINT+155 Cap D=443  (dINT+465)
Blizzard II:  V=155 M=1.0 InflectionPoint=dINT+178 Cap D=511  (dINT+534)
Thunder II:   V=178 M=1.0 InflectionPoint=dINT+210 Cap D=598  (dINT+630)

With the M value changing at this point, the assumptions might be less likely to be correct, but continuing:

Stone III:    V=210 M=1.5 InflectionPoint=dINT+236 Cap D=918  (dINT+708)
Water III:    V=236 M=1.5 InflectionPoint=dINT+265 Cap D=1031 (dINT+795)
Aero III:     V=265 M=1.5 InflectionPoint=dINT+295 Cap D=1150 (dINT+885)
Fire III:     V=295 M=1.5 InflectionPoint=dINT+320 Cap D=1255 (dINT+960)
Blizzard III: V=320 M=1.5 InflectionPoint=dINT+345 Cap D=1355 (dINT+1035)
Thunder III:  V=345 M=1.5 InflectionPoint=dINT+381 Cap D=1488 (dINT+1143)

Stone IV:     V=381 M=2.0 InflectionPoint=dINT+410 Cap D=2021 (dINT+1230)
Water IV:     V=410 M=2.0 InflectionPoint=dINT+440 Cap D=2170 (dINT+1320)
Aero IV:      V=440 M=2.0 InflectionPoint=dINT+470 Cap D=2320 (dINT+1410)
Fire IV:      V=470 M=2.0 InflectionPoint=dINT+506 Cap D=2494 (dINT+1518)
Blizzard IV:  V=506 M=2.0 InflectionPoint=dINT+541 Cap D=2670 (dINT+1623)
Thunder IV:   V=541 M=2.0 InflectionPoint=dINT+626 Cap D=3045 (dINT+1878)

At the time I was doing the testing, I could only test up to around dINT+150, on RDM.
I didn't try testing in abyssea back then, but I guess now at 90~95 with better atma, abyssite and brew, it should be easy enough to test whether the assumptions above are correct?

[dasva]

I don't know about the lower ones but several magical spells/ws have been tested to cap out at 1276 for the stat comparison section. Which since most have a 2 multiple means 638 more of that stat than the mob has int. However if some of that is half effect and some full it's hard to tell since it's hard to get that much stat without brew and that puts you decently above it.


Also what pattern did you use on the inflection points? I mean it looked like you were just adding 9 then 10 then 11. But then on the untested ones it changes.

[Mougurijin]

Also what pattern did you use on the inflection points? I mean it looked like you were just adding 9 then 10 then 11. But then on the untested ones it changes.

Look at the inflection point value, then look at the V value of the next spell on the list.

For Stone to Aero II, the ones I tested to find the inflection points and got the exact numbers, I didn't even notice the pattern until afterwards when I wrote them down in a list and was surprised.

Could it just be a very big coincidence that for all nine of those first spells, the inflection points just happened to be the exact same number as the V of the following spell? Seems intentional to me.


- Edit -

I don't know about the lower ones but several magical spells/ws have been tested to cap out at 1276 for the stat comparison section. Which since most have a 2 multiple means 638 more of that stat than the mob has int. However if some of that is half effect and some full it's hard to tell since it's hard to get that much stat without brew and that puts you decently above it.

I spent a while searching this forum and other places, trying to find tests showing spells capping at 1276 for the stat comparison section of the calculation.
Other than a couple of your posts on here, where you said you couldn't remember the JP website, I haven't found anything yet.

Do you remember what types of spells/ws were tested as that cap?

[Kirschy]

Fucked around /w brews a bit... Mostly gonna most data below, others can do the maths on it~ (If you can think of a few good tests, just post em, and I'll try to get em done this weekend if possible.)

Lv95 COR - Brew - Naked except Bedlam+2 and Oberon's Bullet. (Target mobs were the Lizards in Abyssea-Dem... I waited til they repopped as their weakest level. Was Windsday)
12x 46090
1x 23040 (Resist)

Brew is a 10.0 MAB modifier (100MAB) [Known]
4609 * 10.0 = 46090
floor(4609/2) = 2304 * 10.0 = 23040 [Matches perfectly]

Let's assume @ is still .85 at 95... We should be able to calculate out the ftp * (Lv + 2 + WSC)
999 AGI * .6 = 599
599 * .85 = 509
95 + 2 + 509 = 606 * 5.5 = 3,333

4609 - 3333 = 1276
That means 1276 is coming from the [2*(INT-AGI)] part.
1276/2 = 638... and Lizards don't have 361 AGI, so yea it seems like it caps. Weird cap.

Anyway, also fucked around /w some magic:
Stone - 436
Aero - 998
Water - 686
Fire - 1320
Blizzard - 1743
Fire - 1320
Blizzard - 1743
Thunder - 2268
Stone II - 2787
Aero II - 3941
Water II - 3338
Comet - 27470
Fire - 1320
Blizzard II - 5365
Fire II 4607
Fire III - 9838

Have SS if any are needed for proof purposes~

[dasva]

Ah I see. Didn't notice that.

Personally I did wildfire like kirschy as well as sanguine blade. I also went a step further and Sound blasted the mobs keeping the same dmg. Unfortunately I can't find the screenshots.

I once saw a link to studio gobli but for life of me can't find it now. Then again it's hard for me to really navigate and understand half the stuff there lol. Iirc they did some high lvl blm nukes sanguine blade and some blu nukes.

Idk could test higher nukes (since by your math the lower ones would cap before that anyways) I guess next time I brew something just make sure to deal less than 99999 dmg and hit some fodder mobs along with the nms lol

[Foldypaws]

The Fire III value doesn't agree with your projected caps based on Kirschy's tests. The Tier IIs look like they do, roughly, though they don't seem to have exactly 1000 MAB. What job/subjob and gear were they done with?

[Kirschy]

The Fire III value doesn't agree with your projected caps based on Kirschy's tests. The Tier IIs look like they do, roughly, though they don't seem to have exactly 1000 MAB. What job/subjob and gear were they done with?

Naked, BLM/SCH, but I wasn't using any abilities. BLM didn't seem to get anymore MAB at 95. It was Windsday. I prob didn't hit the dINT cap /w Fire III. I have 5mil+ in free brews on test server so I don't mind wasting a few to get some testing in~

[dasva]

Your cap for fire 3 is lower than the 1276 anyways. It's quite likely that it follows your pattern until it reaches the 1276 and then that becomes the hard cap. That being said there wasn't any testing on higher than tier 1 anyways.

Edit: Wait what's this about free brewing?

[Foldypaws]

Your cap for fire 3 is lower than the 1276 anyways. It's quite likely that it follows your pattern until it reaches the 1276 and then that becomes the hard cap. That being said there wasn't any testing on higher than tier 1 anyways.

Edit: Wait what's this about free brewing?

Test server will give you 5m cruor whenever you want.

[Foldypaws]

Naked, BLM/SCH, but I wasn't using any abilities. BLM didn't seem to get anymore MAB at 95. It was Windsday. I prob didn't hit the dINT cap /w Fire III. I have 5mil+ in free brews on test server so I don't mind wasting a few to get some testing in~

I'm pretty sure you did, and the cap was just lower. If the cap for Fire III followed the expected pattern you should have hit over 12k, rather than the 10k or so you did.

Even being 60 int under the cap would have only lowered your damage by ~450.

[dasva]

Damn now I wanna go thru the lameness it takes to get on there.

[nivlakian]

Naked, BLM/SCH, but I wasn't using any abilities. BLM didn't seem to get anymore MAB at 95. It was Windsday. I prob didn't hit the dINT cap /w Fire III. I have 5mil+ in free brews on test server so I don't mind wasting a few to get some testing in~

It seems to me that BLM does get an MAB trait by 95 because of your stone I test. It did 436 damage. The cap on stone I is 42 then with brew is 420 without additional MAB. To get 436 requires an MAB of at least 10.39 w/ brew and more likely was 10.4 based on BLM trait patterns. 42 * 10.4 = 436.8

[dasva]

Not just that so do all of them except blizz, thunder, blizz 2 and aero 1 which assuming those D caps are right would all be 10.5 so fully merited which is only kinda weird because of the aero. However That could also just be a transcription error since 988 instead of 998 works out perfect for 10.4

Well and fire 3. Fire 3 idk what hell is going on. Assuming 1040 mab to work assuming the inflection point is right the mob would need around 554 int to make that value work