Player Stats Sheet: Help add to it!

[Byrthnoth]

How do we make ourselves subjobless on the test server?

I used to be able to do it on the real servers in Whitegate due to lag, but I haven't been able to do it since then anywhere.

[Masamune]

Weird looks like Mougu got no prob doing it :s
I can't try since i havenot access to test server ><

[Mougurijin]

I can remove my subjob fairly quickly just in my MH in Windurst.
I do a few random job changes in quick succession to sort of create lag I guess, then immediately after this I try to actually remove the subjob.

I could probably bring myself to do the remaining 19 jobs without subjob for Tarutaru.

I'll just do it how I did it last time --screenshot each level change, then afterwards just go back through the screenshots and type the numbers up.

The typing up of the numbers accurately and then double checking them is the part that takes a lot more time and effort.

Edit:
Oh yeah, I tested at what levels merits kick in again now we can use more merits:

LVL	MP+	INT+
10	+10	+1
20	+20	+2
30	+30	+3
40	+40	+4
50	+50	+5
55	+60	+6
60	+70	+7
65	+80	+8
70	+90	+9
75	+100	+10
80	+110	+11
80	+120	+12
80	+130
80	+140
80	+150

So all the rest of the merits kick in at lv80 too... even though there was enough room to have continued the earlier trend with lv85=12 merits, lv90=13 merits, lv95=14 merits, lv99=15 merits.

Edit:
Hmm, I thought there was a special trick to removing sub jobs... but it turns out all you need is to have an internet running as slow as mine is right now and you can just simply change to any other subjob, then select that as the main job too.
Then just wait to see the game slowly register your choices a few/several seconds later... and it works every time.
I guess you could slow your internet down on purpose by downloading a few big files to achieve the same effect?

Here's the way I usually use to remove my sub job:

I make sure I start with a main job directly above a sub job in the list. (eg. main=RDM, sub=WHM).
Then I go to the "Main Job" select screen and highlight the job above my current main job. (main=WAR)
Then really quickly do all the following:
- Press OK twice, so I've confirmed my new main job and I'm back on the "Main Job" select screen.
- Press DOWN once, to highlight my original main job.
- Watch to see the main job change from my original main job to the new one I chose.
- As soon as it changes and the original main job is white, press Cancel, to go back to the previous menu.
- Press DOWN once, to highlight "Support Job".
- Press OK twice, which selects my original main job as the new sub job. (sub=RDM)
- Press UP once, to highlight "Main Job".
- Press OK three times, which selects my original main job as the new main job also. (main=RDM)
And this also takes me back to the "Main Job" select screen, so that I can watch to see if the changes take place.

If all that doesn't work, I just change jobs a few times quickly and then do all the above immediately after.

I'll do the screenshots for the job level stats later, once my internet is working better.
At the moment it's taking a very long time to change levels with my rubbish slow internet.

[Byrthnoth]

The spreadsheet lags me out like whoa, but I did eventually get myself to become subjobless. It took quite a few tries, but once you're subjobless you will stay that way even if you change main jobs.

Anyway, every main job/itself gains 18 of every stat between 75 and 99. The slopes of every stat are the same (.75) for every job. Look at the RDM and DNC tables to figure out when the upgrades happen. Assuming they didn't change anything, you can tack " +floor((Level-75)*.75,1) " onto every level 75 stat equation and get the level 75-99 stats for the job.

[Masamune]

is it true for ANY race ?

[Byrthnoth]

Mougurijin and I are both taru, so we can't tell you. It would be pretty stupid to give a totally flat bonus of different amounts to different races, though.

[Motenten]

Had missed Mougu's earlier work. Very helpful.

MP:

Got 2 out of 7 grades for MP progression nailed down. Need the following to finish:

Taru Blm
Taru Whm
Taru Drk

Elvaan rdm
Galka rdm


Reworked the formulation for calculating stats with respect to flooring and rounding. Simpler and more stable, but not sure yet how it will interact with subjobs.

Adjusted some of the 60-75 range scaling to fix incorrect stat values. Fairly confident of all grades except B (Taru rdm has no B grades).

Current values for stats:

Grade   Base    Pre-60      61-75        76+
A          5      0.50   100/1024   400/1024
B          4      0.45   210/1024   400/1024
C          4      0.40   278/1024   400/1024
D          3      0.35   360/1024   400/1024
E          3      0.30   360/1024   400/1024
F          2      0.25   410/1024   400/1024
G          2      0.20   430/1024   400/1024

Note for Byrth: Overall average of 0.75 per level (and thus 0.375 per stat (378/1024), split between main and race) does not work due to rounding seen at various levels. It must be a minimum of 399/1024. I took 400/1024 as a nicer number.

[Mougurijin]

I'm doing screenshots of the equipment screen for every job from 1-99 without subjob or merits, on Tarutaru.
Each job takes around half an hour.

So far I've finished doing WAR, MNK, WHM, BLM, (RDM), THF, PLD, DRK, and SCH.

I can do the screenshoting process while watching videos and other stuff, so I don't really mind doing it.
It will be nice for me to have anyway, even if no-one really has a need for most or any of it.

If I manage to do the complete set of 1980 (20x99) screenshots, it will probably be around ~1.8 GB, and then I'll use an image software to try and batch process crop them all at once, down to just the equipment window.
If anyone wants them for raw data I could probably lower the quality, compress and zip it to some sensible size and try and upload it somewhere?

I don't know if I'll get around to typing up any of the data myself, as that requires concentration and focus.

[Motenten]

If I could get the whm/blm/drk sets I'd be happy. Cropped and saved as jpgs should be around 6 MB. Can upload it somewhere, or send to my gmail account (kinematics7 ät gmail.com), though you'll have to rename the zip to get past the filters.

[Mougurijin]

I uploaded nine jobs I have screenshoted so far in a zip file to Megaupload.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LDYX6C6G

The images are in .png format, and the original screenshots were 722 MB, but after I cropped, compressed and reduced to 256 colours, the zip file is only 15.5 MB.

[Masamune]

Mougu reminds me about that guy that hinted about the testing method on Hpemdes overnight afk (damn i forgot his name...)... anyways Great Job Mougu :D

Is it hard to do same on say... elvaan and/or mithra? (since we have quite some data already for a few subjobs)

[Yugl]

If you really need the pictures, it's easily done with a windower script assuming you can use that on the test server.

[Byrthnoth]

It was Deadgye, I think.

Mougurijin and I are both tarus.

[Mougurijin]

You can delete your character on the test server and create a new one, as a different race, but I don't want to loose all my gear, atma, and the other stuff at the moment.
If I find out beforehand what date the current test server period is going to end, then just before that I might do a couple of jobs on some different races.

I do have Windower working on the test server, but I didn't even think about being able to make a script to do it that way.

The only thing I use Windower for is: V-sync, a window mode that runs better for me, and on very rare occasions Japanese input.
I don't use anything else from it, and I don't want to use plugins or scripts, especially not afk, so I'll just carry on doing it my slow way and when I feel like watching videos.

I just change the Equipment key to somewhere closer to the Screenshot key, make sure my target defaults to the level changer moogle in MH, increase the chat log lines to maximum to see previous level changes, and have the screenshot folder next to my game with large thumbnails to check each screenshot worked and to check if the number of images matches my current level.
And I just watch videos displayed over the top of most the game window, over the areas which I don't need to be able to see.

[Motenten]

MP fixed for most ratings now, and should be good for anythings Taru/Hume/Mithra. Elvaan/Galka still incomplete for 76+.

Also found a few minor errors on stat scaling, and have fixed those.

HP is being problematic all over. Can't figure out progressions that works.

A particular troublesome one: Whm goes up 5 HP from 75 to 76 (after subtracting the constant 2 HP/level for all characters over lvl 10), then cycles +4, +5, +5, repeat. Since 75 is a cutoff point, anything that can generate 5 HP on the first level after that shouldn't be able to generate 4 HP on any subsequent levels. Any sort of combo that can floor to 4 on any level can't generate 5 on the first level. It can't be a carryover from pre-75 levels since HP is always whole values up til then. Need to think this one over more.

[Masamune]

There is something i always wondered Motenten: which method do you use to determine the coefs ?

Did you write yur own app parsing all stats from Mougu, until find a suitable combo of coefs matching all stats ?
Or are you just adjusting current formula with picking a few random lvls within Mougu data to verify if coefs are matching?
or another method ?

On my side i am currently retyping all Mougu data into the spreadsheet, and then once this done, i'll submit then to a lil app i wrote to see what kind of coefs it returns...

Also, given Mougu submitted only stats for taru, i am guessing you are assuming races coefs are the same old ones?

[Motenten]

I put all the stats for a given job in a worksheet, both the game stats from Mougu and my calculated stats, and set up conditional formatting to color in cells that differ between the two. Then I isolate sections of the formula and determine what the upper and lower bounds for valid values are, and choose a coefficient based on that.

As for non-Taru, races simply have different sets of grade values. As long as I have data for all the different possible grades, it doesn't matter that I have all the different races. Unfortunately that doesn't work for MP because there aren't any jobs with the same grades as Elvaan and Galka, so for now I'm just using placeholder values.

The main trick is the rounding; you only round up if both race and job end up with fractional values of 0.5 or higher. Because of that it's very difficult to rely on an automated mechanism to pick proper coefficients.

[Mougurijin]

I completed the full set of Tarutaru equipment window screenshots.
All 20 jobs, levels 1 to 99, no sub job, no merits, also no blue magic spells set either -- to make sure there wouldn't be any MP bonus traits, or anything similar, from set blue magic combos.

Towards the end I finished entire jobs without really noticing I was doing the screenshots, and I was pressing all the keys and typing in levels subconsciously.
I even redid all 99 levels on RDM again, just to have the screenshots in the same format as the rest, lol...

Somehow, it didn't feel tedious or an effort at all doing screenshots for all 1,980 levels...
It just felt the same as doing a constant refresh/haste cycle on RDM, which you can do in your sleep after playing RDM enough, at least if you don't use silly stuff like plugins and scripts.

I don't think this is of any more use to anyone, but here's the complete .zip file anyway:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=US4L8PLO (34.55 MB)

[Masamune]

Great job Mougu!

As for non-Taru, races simply have different sets of grade values. As long as I have data for all the different possible grades, it doesn't matter that I have all the different races. Unfortunately that doesn't work for MP because there aren't any jobs with the same grades as Elvaan and Galka, so for now I'm just using placeholder values.

The main trick is the rounding; you only round up if both race and job end up with fractional values of 0.5 or higher. Because of that it's very difficult to rely on an automated mechanism to pick proper coefficients.

Ok...

I saw the "additional function" you added on top of regular formulas to do the rounding trick you explained above...
Honestly main question im wondering is: "Would SE devs be anal enough to implement so complicated formula just for stats ? Really?"
In my personal opinion, i think the answer is "no" (and as a consequence, parameters chosen are pobably wrong ones).

Also, this method is clearly assuming Race parameters havenot been changed... (That's why i want another race than taru to cross-check with Mougu's data, and restraint even more the possible parameters combos)

But on other side of things, those parameters you found (+ the "rounding trick formula") looks like matching 100% stats ?(except HP)

Can stay with those while i try with the method you guesssed:

an automated mechanism to pick proper coefficients

With current data without Mougu's, my lil app is finding about 400ish possible combos for 4 coefs per formula... also calculations took about 4hrs lol :s



EDIT: o wait... after rereading this sentence:

you only round up if both race and job end up with fractional values of 0.5 or higher

... sound like you may have a proof that formula format is NOT:
STAT = f(RaceCoefs, Level) + g(JobCoefs, Level)
with f=Floor(a*Level+b), g=Floor(c*Level+d)
...but more like :
STAT= Floor(a*Level+b + c*Level+d)

so for example, if f=5.6 and g=4.8, STAT=10 (and not 9 with 1st format) ?

In other words, format would be something much simpler like:
STAT=Floor[ (aRace+aJob)*Level + (bRace+bJob) ]
...to compare with the line equation from Mougu data.

EDIT2: other reason i was hoping SE devs actually changed only Race coefs and kept old Job coefs, is for Monster Stats... if Job coefs have been changed... might have to recheck all monster stats and formulas we have...

[Motenten]

But on other side of things, those parameters you found (+ the "rounding trick formula") looks like matching 100% stats ?(except HP)

Yes. At present, I have 100% match on everything except HP (and HP is only broken for levels 76+) for rdm, whm, drk, blm and thf. I haven't entered data from the other jobs to compare yet.

... sound like you may have a proof that formula format is NOT:
STAT = f(RaceCoefs, Level) + g(JobCoefs, Level)
with f=Floor(a*Level+b), g=Floor(c*Level+d)
...but more like :
STAT= Floor(a*Level+b + c*Level+d)

so for example, if f=5.6 and g=4.8, STAT=10 (and not 9 with 1st format) ?

In other words, format would be something much simpler like:
STAT=Floor[ (aRace+aJob)*Level + (bRace+bJob) ]
...to compare with the line equation from Mougu data.

Yes, it's not that first formula, but no, it's not the second formula either, though it would be easier if it was.

Suppose race is f() and job is g()

if f() = 4.4 and g()=4.4, total is 8 (as expected, if simply flooring)
if f() = 4.5 and g()=4.5, total is 9 (one might think that this means you sum first and then floor)
if f() = 4.4 and g()=4.9, total is 8 (but nope, this sort of thing breaks the above assumption)


Edit:

Also, this method is clearly assuming Race parameters havenot been changed... (That's why i want another race than taru to cross-check with Mougu's data, and restraint even more the possible parameters combos)

Just as a note: combinations of race and job where the grades for each swap places (eg: Taru whm Int is A/E, while Mnd is E/A) have identical stat progressions. Therefore I have no reason to believe that the grades for race are treated differently from grades for jobs. Whether any particular race or job stat is different than we expect it to be is something that should be readily apparent once the grade progressions are determined.