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  1. #261
    Chram
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    Actually, there's one other possibility: 3.0 point without gorget is 1290 rather than 1293. 1290 * 1.05 = 1354, which is the max observed damage, so 1290 is within valid range.

    1290 would have a 1.0 of 430

    Increasing to 462 with 200/1024 fTP
    158.77 - 168.90
    base fTP: 2.56 - 2.70

    Increasing to 463 with 200/1024 fTP
    163.90 - 174.02
    base fTP: 2.48 - 2.62

    So an fTP in the 2.5 to 2.7 range, but requiring a higher Chr WSC mod.

    Picking one at random: Supposing 2.5 fTP, which would mean a base damage of 172. That requires 48 WSC, which is ~72% Chr mod.

    Supposing a 60% Chr mod: That's 40 WSC, total base damage of 164, and a 2.625 fTP (clean fTP value). Note: that generates 430 base damage for no gorget, and 462 base damage with gorget; both fit observed values.


    Doing more testing on the WSC first.

  2. #262
    Chram
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    Look up at Yugl's Namas math. I think that shows it is 0.85.

    870/1024 would have resulted in 678 base damage from WSC.
    Ok, then it's almost certainly an incorrect WSC.

  3. #263
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    Looking back at your data and Foldy's, my bet is on 2.625 with a 60% CHR mod.

    <table style="width: 672pt; border-collapse: collapse;" border="0" cellSpacing="0" cellPadding="0" width="896"> <colgroup><col style="width: 48pt;" span="14" width="64"> <tbody><tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; height: 15pt; background-color: transparent;" height="20" width="64"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" width="64">fTP</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" width="64">D</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" width="64">CHR</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" width="64">Total D</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" width="64">Total fTP</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" width="64"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" width="64">O. Min</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" width="64">O. Max</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" width="64">Coverage</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" width="64"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" width="64">P. Min</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" width="64">P. Mode</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" width="64">P. Max</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td style="border: 0px black; height: 15pt; background-color: transparent;" height="20">Foldy</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">0</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">52</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">75</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">90</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">2.625</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">712</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">735</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">0.337717</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">678</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">708</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">743</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td style="border: 0px black; height: 15pt; background-color: transparent;" height="20">Gorget</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">0.097656</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">52</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">75</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">90</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">2.722656</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">737</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">764</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">0.383002</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">704</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">735</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">771</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td style="border: 0px black; height: 15pt; background-color: transparent;" height="20">CHR Gear</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">0</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">52</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">112</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">108</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">2.625</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">859</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">864</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">0.060853</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">813</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">849</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">891</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td style="border: 0px black; height: 15pt; background-color: transparent;" height="20"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td style="border: 0px black; height: 15pt; background-color: transparent;" height="20">Motenten</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">0</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">124</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">80</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">164</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">2.625</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">1282</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">1345</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">0.513757</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">1236</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">1290</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">1354</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td style="border: 0px black; height: 15pt; background-color: transparent;" height="20">Gorget+Belt</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">0.195313</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">124</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">80</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">164</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">2.820313</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">1390</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">1455</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">0.488882</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;"></td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">1328</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">1386</td> <td style="border: 0px black; background-color: transparent;" align="right">1455</td> </tr></tbody></table>

  4. #264
    Chram
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    First, another bit of calculation on the fTP, based on the values for no gorget and gorget+belt:

    1290, 1386 >> 430, 462
    2.546 - 2.708

    1290, 1389 >> 430, 463
    2.471 - 2.629

    1293, 1386 >> 431, 462
    2.631 - 2.811

    1293, 1389 >> 431, 463
    2.552 - 2.720


    Possibilities:
    2.5000 - 1
    2.5625 - 3
    2.6250 - 3
    2.6875 - 3
    2.7500 - 1


    Unfortunately, not enough data to really rule any of them out.

    Expanding on the gorget+belt data points, as that seemed the most likely to eliminate one of the end points.

    1415, 1446, 1423, 1409, 1390, 1455, 1339, 1428, 1388!

    While technically possible for 1388 to be below 3.0, given the distributions, it seems extremely unlikely. So, 1389 eliminated, leaving us with:

    1290, 1386 >> 430, 462
    2.546 - 2.708

    1293, 1386 >> 431, 462
    2.631 - 2.811

    Given that the no-gorget data set already has a value below 1293 but not below 1290 (1291), and that the max value matches what it would reach if 1290 were 3.0, I'm going to have to pick the first of the above entries:

    1290, 1386 >> 430, 462
    2.546 - 2.708

    This rules out 2.75 and 2.5 as fTP points, leaving us with either 2.5625 or 2.625 as the most probable candidates. 2.5625 is the 100% value for Yuki/Gekko/Kasha, so seems fairly likely, though 2.625 is also reasonable.


    Base damage for:

    fTP 2.5625:
    168 * 2.5625 = 430 (match)
    168 * 2.7578125 = 463 (no match)

    fTP 2.6250:
    164 * 2.625 = 430 (match)
    164 * 2.8203125 = 462 (match)


    So the calculations indicate that it's -not- possible to reach those values with 2.5625 fTP.

    105 + 19 + WSC = 164
    WSC = 40

    That's an exact match for a 60% Chr mod.



    Now, new gear set, 80+30 chr.

    60% Chr would be +56 WSC
    Total base damage: 105 + 19 + 56 = 180

    Without gorget:
    Base*fTP = 180 * 2.625 = 472
    Expected damage range: 1416 - 1486

    1449, 1469, 1465, 1481, 1427, 1478, 1424, 1431, 1441, 1485, 1470, 1481, 1429, 1451, 1420

    ~ 1420 indicates that base damage can't be any higher than 473
    ~ 1485 indicates that base damage can't be any lower than 472

    Close enough to an exact match for the time being.


    With gorget+belt
    Base*fTP = 180 * 2.8203125 = 507
    Expected damage range: 1521 - 1597

    1543, 1560, 1535, 1546, 1523, 1556, 1596

    ~ 1523 indicates that base damage can't be any higher than 507
    ~ 1596 indicates that base damage can't be any lower than 507

    Exact match with predicted base damage.



    So, Tachi: Ageha --
    2.625 fTP
    60% Chr mod

  5. #265
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    I made the Numbing Shot page using all the information I could find, but admittedly that was not much:
    https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Numbing_Shot

    I'd like some first-hand confirmation of those stats, but haven't skilled Marksmanship since 75. Can anyone confirm that the fTP, mod, dSTAT term, and skillchain properties are correct?

  6. #266
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    Okay, now the re-templating of the weapon skills should be complete. If you guys see a page that does not have the new template or has incorrect/incomplete information, feel free to contact me or fix it yourself.

  7. #267
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    Went out and verified Numbing Shot. It's a physical WS.

    Sniper Shot's skillchain properties are wrong at the moment, but it's not clear why. Split Shot -> Split Shot = Reverberation (Transfixion -> Reverberation) but Split Shot -> Sniper Shot = nothing. This means that the only properties it could have are Transfixion, Liquefaction, and Detonation. Transfixion is (for the most part) a given because it's a low level ranged WS. That means the other property is probably Liquefaction or Detonation.

    Changing it to Liquefaction right now in analogy with Dulling Arrow. I can't really imagine why anyone would make the animation department create two separate WS animation lines (Marksmanship and Archery, both originally used by one job) and then give them almost identical stats. Apart from the 30% AGI vs. 25% AGI/16% STR mod difference, Archery and Marksmanship WSs are identical in all ways.

  8. #268
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    Resolution's Attack penalty has been listed as 8% for a long time, but it bugged me because I've got a Ragnarok and I know just how attack-greedy the WS is.

    345 STR, Soil Gorget/Belt, Phorcys Korazin doing 300TP Resolutions vs. <4% HP EM Bluffalo
    938~941 Attack vs. 516 Defense

    30 WSs gave me a range from 615~1106, which corresponds to 1.58~1.47 Ratio. I have 1.82 Ratio on melee swings, or 1.733 without Phorcys' +5%. It is pretty safe to assume that the +5% Attack from Phorcys is combined additively with the WS Attack penalty, so I can treat 1.733 as my base ratio.

    1.58/1.733 = -13.9% Attack
    1.47/1.733 = -20.2% Attack

    This puts it approximately in the Drakesbane attack penalty tier, so I'm going to arbitrarily choose -18.75% just to make it the same as Drakesbane.

  9. #269
    Chram
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    Trying to determine baselines for your Resolution test:

    Using Ragnarok, presumably lvl 99. Base damage: 143
    Capped fStr: 23
    345 Str: 293 WSC

    Total base damage: 459

    Used at 300 TP, so fTP of 0.96875 + 200/1024 for gorget+belt = 1.1641

    Base working damage: 459 * 1.1641 = 534

    Observed damage range: 615~1106.

    Factoring out 5% spread, 615~1054.

    That's a pDif range of 1.1517 to 1.9738~2.0712

    1.1517 min pDif implies a Ratio of 1.6448
    1.9738~2.0712 max pDif implies a Ratio of 1.5988~1.6962

    So Ratio of roughly 1.60~1.65

    I have 1.82 Ratio on melee swings
    Were you wearing the Phorcys body during melee? Assuming yes.

    Ratio loss: 0.17 to 0.22, which is a fraction of the defense (516 for EM bluffalo), so 87~114 attack reduction.

    With 938~941 Attack (just using 940), 87~114 is 9.26% to 12.13%. However percentage only applies to base attack, not including things like Berserk or Last Resort. You didn't specify all sources of attack, so not sure of the actual value to use here.

  10. #270
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    Using Flaming Arrow to generalize:
    1. Hybrid WS additional effect uses the Damage Type term of the weapon (Confirmed by Byrthnoth previously)
    2. Hybrid WS additional effect use the RE/SDT term of the WS element
    3. Hybrid WS additional effect damage uses MDT term

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fjx49zv3m.../PLayer/Hybrid

    1. Damage Type Term (Type Check folder)

    1530 is NQ DMG with brew
    1912 is with a 1.25 bonus multiplier (Bonus granted from attacking birds with piercing)
    1912*10 = 19120 (Brew gives 900 MAB and the mob has no MDB, so 10x increase)
    19120 + 1912 = 21032 DMG

    2. Resist Element Term (Element Resist folder)

    Fire Elemental: 1973 DMG at 300% TP
    Earth Elemental: 3565 DMG
    Manticore: 1530 DMG, 9180 DMG

    Notice that 1530 will be the NQ DMG for any mob unless they possess PDT or Piercing resistance when brewing (If you have the attack needed to hit that)

    1530*0.25 = 382.5 (Apply piercing resistance elementals have)
    Floor(382.5) = 382 DMG

    Normally, you would multiply by 10, but these elementals seem to have 120 MDB (Or 20 MDB if looking at traits)
    382*(1000/120) = 3183.33333 (Multiply by MAB/MDB)
    Floor(3183.33333) = 3183
    3183 + 382 = 3565 DMG (Seen with Earth Elemental)

    Fire Elementals have fire RE/SDT, so you need to reduce the damage by half before applying MAB/MDB
    382/2 = 191
    191*(1000/120) = 1591.66666
    Floor(1591.66666) = 1591
    1591 + 382 = 1973 DMG (Seen with Fire Elemental)

    Manticore have fire RE/SDT too, but they don't have the Damage Type resistance
    1530/2 = 765 (Apply fire RE/SDT)
    765*10 = 7650 (No MDB, so just 10x DMG)
    7650 + 1530 = 9180 DMG (Seen with Manticore)

    3. MDT Term (MDT Check folder)
    Magic Pots (They have 50% MDT): 1530 DMG, 8360 DMG
    1530 DMG (Physical portion)

    They have unknown MDB, but we can figure that out via backtrack.

    8360-1530 = 6830 DMG
    We know we need to do (Some DMG)*(MAB/MDB) to get this value (i.e. (Some DMG)*(MAB/MDB) = 6830 DMG)

    If we did 1530 as "Some DMG", we would need MAB/MDB to be ~4.464 as per (6830/1530). Very unlikely since that would suggest ~228 MDB (1000/4.464).

    If we do 765 instead (1530/2), 1) we immediately show the MDT in effect and 2) we would need MAB/MDB to be ~8.928 instead (6830/765). That would be roughly 112 MAB (or 12 MAB from traits). Much more believable than 228 MDB.

    1530*(1000/112) = 13660.714 (Apply MAB/MDB)
    Floor(13660.714) = 13660
    13660/2 = 6830 DMG (Apply 50% MDT)
    6830 + 1530 = 8360 DMG (Seen DMG within the image)

  11. #271
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    I wasn't using any other sources of Attack. The only JA I used was Hasso, which I activated at the start of every Bluffalo. I was DRK/SAM with Ragnarok. I froze my gear and just TPed in STR gear because I don't really trust Spellcast to gearswap for these tests.

    My gear was:
    Ragnarok (99)/Claymore/_____/Iron Gobbet
    Phorcys/Soil/TP Bonus/Merman's
    Phorcys/Phorcys?/Pyrosoul/Rajas
    Atheling/Soil/Avant +1/Dilaram

    Atmas: Stout Arm / Harvester / Voracious Violet

    I have uncapped GS Skill on DRK (started at 404, WAR's cap I think) which slowly leveled up (hence the range). I don't think either of my extremes were actually performed at 438 or 441, so you could just pick 939 or 940 if you want. Also, you need to remove the 7% WS damage I think?

    I did it like this:
    Ceiling(615/1.07) = 575
    Ceiling(575/(.93875+50/256)) = 494 ( This step is not technically correct because the order is fTP -> pDIF -> WS damage, but better than not ceiling-ing it I think? )
    494/459 = 1.07625 pDIF
    1.07625 pDIF = 1.58 wRatio
    1 - 1.58 wRatio / 1.733 expected wRatio = 13.9% difference

  12. #272
    Chram
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    Also, you need to remove the 7% WS damage I think?
    Ah, right.

    Ok:

    Base working damage: 459 * 1.1641 = 534

    Factoring out 5% spread and 7% WSDmg, 575~986[1034].

    pDif range: 1.0768 - 1.8464~1.9363

    1.0768 min pDif implies a Ratio of at most 1.5796
    1.8464~1.9363 max pDif implies a Ratio of at least 1.4714~1.5613

    So there's the 1.47-1.58 range you got. Looking at the range of values, I'd put a bet on Ratio being pretty close to 1.55. Below 1.5 is unlikely, as you'd start generating a 1.0 peak then.

    1.55 would be a 0.27 Ratio offset from melee. Factored relative to the mob's 516 defense, that's a drop of about 139 attack

    ~940 attack includes the 5% boost from the Phorcys body, which means 895 without it.

    139 attack out of 895 is 15.5%.

    Percent reductions at actual ratios:

    -14% @ 1.58
    -15% @ 1.56
    -16% @ 1.54

    15% and 16% are the most likely. I'd put it as -15% at 300 TP, as it seems a nice number for max TP.

  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motenten View Post
    I'd put it as -15% at 300 TP, as it seems a nice number for max TP.
    Doesn't it vary fTP with TP, meaning the attack penalty is likely static?

  14. #274
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    Ah, right. Well, there's still a range of possibilities then (would probably want another 30 samples to push the edge limits), though -15% still seems like a convenient value.

  15. #275
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    I didn't see anything on it, so mentioning it here.
    Just unlocked Exudiation WS using trust ayami.
    Tachi: Kasha > Exudation made Light.
    secondary property of Fragmentation. yes? adding to wiki.

  16. #276
    Hydra
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    My personal experience is making me scratch my head a lot about the magic weaponskill Cataclysm.
    STR: 93
    INT: 103
    MND: 104
    Job: SCH99/WHM49
    Magic Atk. Bonus: 5 from gifts
    Equipment: Terra's Staff, Anrin Obi (happened to do tests on darksday so to eleminate the random)
    Targets: Lv.0 Tiny Mandragoras & Bumblebees
    Cataclysm:
    1000TP = 423
    2000TP = 908
    Day change Firesday
    3000TP = 1433

    I did a cataclysm against a Pinetorum in Yahse Hunting Grounds.
    3000TP cataclysm 1433, watersday, nekid w/ only terra's staff.
    1000TP cata, 385, windsday, same other conditions. 423/1.1=384.5
    2000TP cata, 826, 908/1.1=825.45
    Looks like cata has no dStat as mentioned in Studio Gobli.

    I am brand new at trying to understand the formulas, lemme know if I am totally off base somewhere.
    fLVL=152, cata WSD=49

    My guesses at fTP:
    385/1.05/201=1.82~
    826/1.05/201=3.91~
    1433/1.05/201=6.79~
    I don't know what it should be rounded to.

  17. #277
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    fLVL = 101 (Terra's Staff isn't an iLevel weapon)
    WSD = 58 (no Alpha anymore)

    ((101+58)*fTP + 32)*1.05*(1.1 or 1) = 541

    Here is some older testing that never made it to the wiki:
    http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/121...=1#post6157040

  18. #278
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    23,736
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut

    They didn't just bump ilvl weapons Byrth when I did my testing with a lvl 99 weapon it was 152. Which is why was so annoying to test magic ws right after the update until I figured that out. I believe someone might have tested it scaling down at a lower levels too. Unless they changed it back right away it should still be 152 for non ilvl weapon at 99

    As far as cata goes I don't think ftps were ever update... .

    As far as the dstat we'd have to look at the pinetorums int to make sure since fint caps really low. That said it's highly unlikely you are capping it with 103 int against pinetorums. A quick test with the nuke formula should find it

    Looking back thru the thread seems I did test it. Without a dstat which it looks like it doesn't have it was
    2000 tp- 768 - 3.75 ftp
    3000 tp - 1332 - 6.5 ftp


    With the numbers coming out almost exactly... I never did retesting 1000 because they didn't say they were adjusting it. On the other hand they also said "TP bonus increased when the bearer has 2,000 or more TP" and 2000 tp actually went down. Based on your numbers I'd say 1000 tp is 1.75 which is a huge ninja nerf

    Several other staff ws (read all magical ones) were screwed up that update and I did make a bug report but seems they only fixed like 2-3 of them

  19. #279
    Hydra
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    100
    BG Level
    3
    FFXI Server
    Ragnarok

    Really, no alpha anymore for the WSC?

    EDIT: This level correction factor used to also affect Weapon Skills, but was removed in the June, 2014 update.
    missed that bit. -_-

  20. #280
    Relic Horn
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    3,131
    BG Level
    7
    FFXI Server
    Sylph

    Does anyone know if there's a way to simulate the Fotia Belt/Gorget's 1% chance of preserving TP upon Weaponskill in Motenten's spreadsheets?