Wildfire enmity testing

[dasva]

Still kinda a work in progress since my help is limited but here it goes.

Since it seems it hasn't been mathed out and someone suggested I do it I decide to start testing wildfire emnity.

Right now using rng/sam to get 100% tp exactly and whm as benchmark for emnity values and an rdm to pull sleep grav etc. No one used emnity gear or merits. Making sure to let VE decay and see who it runs after then having rdm resleep. Kinda crappy but don't have great pdt sets on them nor does he have /sch to skin me so I'm making do lol.

Hypothesis 1. Emnity gained is based on dmg dealt and not static like I hear.

For this portion made sure to pull mobs that were exactly the same lvl (since lvl effects the multiple if it is based on dmg) using my 77 whm to check them as EM. Target was Qiqirn Goldsmith. (Note since thfs get resist gravity this turned out to be a crappy choice but was the first mob that had a lvl 77 easy to get to that I could think of)

First one geared up did 1462 dmg. Expected CE 2206

Casted 4 cure Vs (400 CE each) and 1 flash (180 CE) for a total of 1780 CE and rng still had hate. After 20 cure 1s for 0 (1 CE) each whm had hate. This put's it between 1781-1800.

2nd rat took most gear off and only did 781 dmg. Expected CE 1178.

Did 2 Cure V and 1 flash for 980 CE rng still had hate. So Wildfire did at least 981 CE.
Flash again for another 180 to put it to 1160. Whm gained hate.
rng/sam did meditate for 320 CE of course regained hate
whm did another flash for 180 CE putting it to 1340 CE whm regained hate.
If you take out the 320 from the meditate that means the wildfire was still did less than 1020.

At this point rdm couldn't grav miscommunicated and it hit me. So sorry for not getting more percise value but between 981-1020.

I admit there is a bit of fudge factor given my method and running around so I'd throw out the exact values and such. But the difference is rather clear. Alot more dmg was alot more emnity. And from the math it seemed to be around 80-90% of expected. Trying to find a lower lvl mob with constant lvl to help test (that will actually survive the ws ). If anyone knows one it would be extremely helpful since could just sit there phalanxed.

Things I wish to further test. Wether lvl plays a factor outside of the obvious normal emnity to dmg dealth formula and dealing different amounts of dmg. Exact amount of CE gained for an amount of dmg. VE gains and 200 and 300% of course.

Overall though so far this looks like it's going to be somewhat dissapointing in terms of emnity reduction

If anyone has input or wishes to help please do.

[Radec]

Trying to find a lower lvl mob with constant lvl to help test (that will actually survive the ws ). If anyone knows one it would be extremely helpful since could just sit there phalanxed.

Water or fire elementals should take severely reduced wildfire damage, enough that mid-20's could live.

[dasva]

Well just got pointed out Tranquil Heart /sigh FU SE. If anyone knows when whm get's Tranquil Heart III that would be nice so I could redo the numbers. Since most of the emnity was from cures the orginal hypothesis should still be correct but the amounts might differ and would be awesome for future testing

[Byrthnoth]

So, I PMed you about that. The first test makes it look like approximately 75% Enmity. The second test looks like 77-80%, but it also looks like a much more complicated test.

Other questions to answer:
* What is the 200 TP Enmity reduction?
* What is the 300 TP Enmity reduction?
* How does it work with Stealth Shot?
* How does it work with Enmity gear?

[dasva]

Yeah gunna try lower lvl mobs to get a more exact amount for it since I can just stand there and take hits for 0. Just hard getting exact same lvl on them doing that.

And yeah planned on doing 200 and 300%... hmmm guess I could merit stealth shot and do the gear too. So hard finding good help sometimes though lol. Maybe I should just start lvling my alts rdm

[Byrthnoth]

If you can find a RDM friend, EM mandies in Tahrongi should hit you for 0 with Phalanx II, Twilight Torque, Earth Staff, and maybe some Dark Rings (and armor). 77 RDM (5/5 Phalanx II) let me get hit for 0 even without Earth Staff on BLM.

[dasva]

Even on crits?

[Byrthnoth]

Yeah, crits for 0. If your friend goes RDM/SCH or SCH/RDM, he can give you Stoneskin too though. Alternatively, you can use no Regen Atma and Ducal Guard.

[Weeks]

LSmate claims chance of 0 hate, more chance with higher TP (Very often at 300% TP). Not sure how extensive his testing has been, because neither of us has been on much, but it's worth considering since this info seems to imply that the enmity effect is more useless than I would expect from an empyrean.

[dasva]

Yeah, crits for 0. If your friend goes RDM/SCH or SCH/RDM, he can give you Stoneskin too though. Alternatively, you can use no Regen Atma and Ducal Guard.

Lol yeah that's the problem. He doesn't have /sch let alone sch main. Ducal gaurd is great idea though since my alt is kinda bleh geared so far.

[dasva]

LSmate claims chance of 0 hate, more chance with higher TP (Very often at 300% TP). Not sure how extensive his testing has been, because neither of us has been on much, but it's worth considering since this info seems to imply that the enmity effect is more useless than I would expect from an empyrean.

I haven't really tested for that... however I have done alot of 300% in pt situations and I pulled hate most the time with it lol. But I suppose testing 0 hate would be pretty easy to do rq

[dasva]

Kinda sucks the only real help I have is the guy who is helping me farm stuff for empyrean weapons /sigh

[dasva]

So now that I have 3 accounts and don't have to rely on others I've been wanting to redo testing as was fairly shakey before. And given enmity is going to get all jacked up soon this seemed like the perfect time lol.

So new procedure is as follows. Find EM bluffalo pull on whm. Use wf (sekkanoki for 100% tests) run like a mad man and repose on whm. Then use my lol blm/brd to attempt to get hate with threnodies (100 CE) and self only paeon (20 CE) reposing inbetween so nobody gets hit. No emnity gear, atma or merits on anyone.

For the 100% I was dealing 4602 dmg and using the emnity calc base emnity 5495 CE. 13 threnodies and 6 paeons later rng still has hate. 1 more paeon brd has and keeps hate. So that means the wf was 1361-1380. Since I was /sam that was as close as I felt like getting and that puts it at - 74.89-75.26 emnity. So -75% emnity

For 300% I changed to /pld for cures. Did 4610 dmg which should be base 5505 CE. 4 threnodies got my blm/brd hate. 18 cure 1s for 0 got it back on my rng/pld. Putting WF at 382 CE. Which is -93.06-93.08% emnity. So about -93%

Going to test gear and stealth shot and camoflage shortly but timed out on my mule doing last set so might as well put this up now. Though it does look like I might have to test camo first. Can't find much of any solid testing on it.

Edit: Forgot to add I also did a rough test at 100% at higher dmg (5846) which would be base 6980 and didn't have hate after 15 threnodies and a lower dmg one of 3556 (4311) and got hate after 11 threnodies so it's not static

Edit 2: If anyone looked at my other numbers and thought something looked funny it was because I was being a tard and rounding 61.38 to 60 and using 80/66 instead of 80/67 for the CE mod lol. Correcting it has made the numbers alot nicer

[Prothescar]

I have a theory and am relatively certain that all magic damage weaponskills determine enmity by base damage only, i.e. before magic attack bonus and all that. It explains why Flash Nova seems to give more enmity than most other magic weaponskills, and why Wildfire gives less than it really should.

[dasva]

hmmm i suppose I can try again without to prove it I was mostly doing bigger to get better resolution. That said the 75% is such a nice fit though

[dasva]

Well it seems you are on to something. Guess it was too good to be true to have -93% emnity lol.

Anyways tried again with no staff no + element att and no +mab I just did 1692 WF base enmity 2021 hate and actual was between 1381 and 1400 for 100% tp. Or -30.7-31.7% which is a lame number but oh well.

Back calculating out my MAB/element att/ staff bonus from my previous 100% test my dmg without all that should've been 1665 which would be 1989 base enmity actual was 1361-1380 which comes out to - 30.6-31.6... so yep looks like staff mab and affinity are all factored out.

Now if I back calculate everything out of the 300% test I'd get 1667 dmg (yay 1 more agi /pld then /sam lol) which would be 1991 base enmity. Actual was 382 so -80.81-80.86%.

So still rather nice amounts of -emnity AND a pseudo form of minus emnity in the form of other dmg terms not counting for it's dmg Ok time for the rest. I wonder if things like +crit dmg or +ws dmg are factored out of physical ones.... or thinks like +/-dt mdb sdt etc. We always assumed dmg resistant mobs built less hate because of less dmg but maybe not... another thing to test before the update I suppose.

Thanks for the heads up proth

[Byrthnoth]

That's an incredible finding. Hats off dudes!

[dasva]

I agree. I never would of thought of it myself probably. Well maybe eventually my -enmity gear test I had started was producing numbers that made absolutely no sense. Wonder how it works with brew lol. I mean unless brew gives +emnity you could theoretically fire off a 50k ws and only get credit emnity wise for 2k of it lol.

[Byrthnoth]

The massive stat boost you get during Brew would make it more like a 5k Wildfire, yeah? You'd probably almost cap hate anyway.

[dasva]

4631. So at 300% tp about 1100ish CE lol. Assuming my back calc is right