The occupation of wallstreet

[notorious bum]

Frack, my chest and face hurts so bad now. Thanks.

[Olo401]

Hippie chicks that smoke trees and probably play vidya games

ftfy. The hippie movement ain't all unshaven lesbos & survivalist chicks. I know dis.

[AoE]

Yeah an ex-g/f of mine was pretty much a hippie. Aside from some questionable hygiene choices, she was still pretty hot and probably one of the smartest people I knew period. Compared to most of the girls I've been with sometimes regret letting her get away.

[Cantih]

...you can't be serious. Those kids don't even know why they're there.

Then educate them.

The reason why most of these protests are so insignificant in appearance is because 1)The media is controlled by wallstreet

Find someone with half a brain, a steady hand, and a decent resolution camera phone/camcorder. Film the truth, no funky edits, and upload to youtube every day.
Do your damnedest to get a link on boingboing, fark, or w/e you can that isn't a crackpot site.

Spoiler: show

2. Fuck her in the shower.

This is genius.

Go the whole distance, throw in those shower fuck handles Sath's mom got him for christmas.

[Gadritan]

Then educate them.

The fuck.

No. Just no.

I have 0 sympathy for people who lack initiative.

[Drex]

Why would they need a cause when they can just mill about chanting memes? And why would they get media attention for it when even their fellow 4channers want to pretend it's not happening? And why would anyone educate them when most of them probably flunked out of college playing World of Warcraft too much? Just let them have their meet and greet.

[Gadritan]

And why would anyone educate them when most of them probably flunked out of college playing World of Warcraft too much?

Well, not to mention that it's incredibly retarded to "educate them," about their cause after they've already started "protesting." That's something you kind of need to know before you start. It just speaks volumes about what kind of people they are..you know, the kind that (in Sol's words)"want to fight for some sort of injustice they've never lived, without doing the background reading to understand what they're fighting for. I'll bet you that almost all of them have parents with a 401k and have never wanted for anything in their lives because of the stability the financial markets bring."

[Senoska]

I think most of us agree that the current political system cannot continue in its current form. Republicans are moving farther right than ever before and have moved into the realm of Facism. The democrats, equally responsible, have done nothing to prevent that move. There are two directions we can go in the future. Either we protest and move to the left, or we do nothing and continue farther to the right.

With that being said, if the protest that moves us out of this slide to the right happens, we will be able to judge our culture and society by not only what we did, but what we did not do. What we did was protest, what we didn't do was cover it in the media. What we did was protest, and what we did not do was allow it to happen unencumbered by barricades and police. These things are not separate events. The protests about the tar sands and the amount of arrests made over it will be remembered, as will bart shutting off cell service, as will the total lack of the media's coverage given to these types of things so they can run another story about a Youtube video featuring a cute cat.

The alternative is that nothing is done and we slide farther into Facism. I think the majority of people are very angry with their political system. However, the worry of the next dollar or next meal is on the majority of our minds. I think once people can stop worrying about their job, they'll have time to care about their corrupt politics. If this isn't the case, I fear where we will end up

[Gadritan]

I don't even.

You should be out there Seno. Really. You'd fit right in.

[notorious bum]

You're either a leader or a follower in life. Holla.

[Drex]

I think most of us agree that the current political system cannot continue in its current form. Republicans are moving farther right than ever before and have moved into the realm of Facism. The democrats, equally responsible, have done nothing to prevent that move. There are two directions we can go in the future. Either we protest and move to the left, or we do nothing and continue farther to the right.

With that being said, if the protest that moves us out of this slide to the right happens, we will be able to judge our culture and society by not only what we did, but what we did not do. What we did was protest, what we didn't do was cover it in the media. What we did was protest, and what we did not do was allow it to happen unencumbered by barricades and police. These things are not separate events. The protests about the tar sands and the amount of arrests made over it will be remembered, as will bart shutting off cell service, as will the total lack of the media's coverage given to these types of things so they can run another story about a Youtube video featuring a cute cat.

The alternative is that nothing is done and we slide farther into Facism. I think the majority of people are very angry with their political system. However, the worry of the next dollar or next meal is on the majority of our minds. I think once people can stop worrying about their job, they'll have time to care about their corrupt politics. If this isn't the case, I fear where we will end up

For someone who hates modern politicians, you sure love talking like them.

[Senoska]

For someone who hates modern politicians, you sure love talking like them.

I'm not too sure how you disagree with what I said. I made three points in that post. I used a bit of romantic language in making those points, but I don't think that it makes them wrong.

Sorry I'll try to lay it out in a simpler manner, since going into any amount of detail makes you ignorant of a situation, or even worse, on the completely other side of the point you were making.

1. Current politics cant continue the way that they are going
2. Events that happen are part of our societies memory, are not separate or fragmented events, and will play a part in future movements.
3. Once people stop worrying about their job or their food, they might start to care more about their politics, and these events will eventually play a role in the future.

Is that any better?

[Greatguardian]

He's saying that you're making a lot of broad, sweeping accusations and generalizations grounded in concepts without a single ounce of productive thought or inclination towards real world changes. You have made assertions while providing absolutely no logical backing or evidence to support them. You write a lot and say absolutely nothing at all. You don't identify any specific problems with the current political system, nor do you offer specific solutions that can be implemented to remedy those problems. You avoid the absolute tense, and talk about how things might be, or how people might feel, rather than pursuing how you feel and what you are actually doing about anything.

Summary: You don't know what the fuck you're talking about and you use flowery language to cover it up while still attempting to sound like you aren't a total tool. Sounds pretty similar to standard political speech to me.

[Gadritan]

Is that any better?

No. lol.

[hey]

He's saying that you're making a lot of broad, sweeping accusations and generalizations grounded in concepts without a single ounce of productive thought or inclination towards real world changes. You have made assertions while providing absolutely no logical backing or evidence to support them. You write a lot and say absolutely nothing at all. You don't identify any specific problems with the current political system, nor do you offer specific solutions that can be implemented to remedy those problems. You avoid the absolute tense, and talk about how things might be, or how people might feel, rather than pursuing how you feel and what you are actually doing about anything.

Summary: You don't know what the fuck you're talking about and you use flowery language to cover it up while still attempting to sound like you aren't a total tool. Sounds pretty similar to standard political speech to me.

Another alternative is that he doesn't know what the perfect solution is. Which considering how complex of a problem it is, is hardly surprising.

[Senoska]

He's saying that you're making a lot of broad, sweeping accusations and generalizations grounded in concepts without a single ounce of productive thought or inclination towards real world changes. You have made assertions while providing absolutely no logical backing or evidence to support them. You write a lot and say absolutely nothing at all. You don't identify any specific problems with the current political system, nor do you offer specific solutions that can be implemented to remedy those problems. You avoid the absolute tense, and talk about how things might be, or how people might feel, rather than pursuing how you feel and what you are actually doing about anything.

Summary: You don't know what the fuck you're talking about and you use flowery language to cover it up while still attempting to sound like you aren't a total tool. Sounds pretty similar to standard political speech to me.

Well, I don't know that I agree with this entirely. I can break down my points one by one and that might better help address the point I was making.

I think most of us agree that the current political system cannot continue in its current form. Republicans are moving farther right than ever before and have moved into the realm of Facism. The democrats, equally responsible, have done nothing to prevent that move. There are two directions we can go in the future. Either we protest and move to the left, or we do nothing and continue farther to the right.

It is true that the right has continuously moved to the right. The tea party is a prime example of where the right stands right now, and if you watch republican debates, its clear who they're catering to. The tea party, in most regards, can be considered the party of fascism. They very adamantly purpose "free market" solutions to issues, seek to have government run by corporatist values, are overwhelmingly nationalistic, they are extremely intolerant in their views on abortion, religion, and immigration, and appose anything socialist or communist. Watching anything on fox news will reaffirm these things.

On the other hand, the democrats have done nothing to prevent this move. We've seen this trend come to light with the recent debt ceiling debate and how the democrats wish to negotiate, while allowing the right to set the starting point and form that debate. This makes them equally as guilty as the right. My point was simple. We can allow this to continue, but to what ends and by what means? This isn't an assumption, as we're already seeing these things come about with the no tax increases on the rich, and suggestion of tax hikes on the middle class, and removing social safety nets and entitlement programs because they're "socialist" and impede on corporations abilities to dominate certain markets.

With that being said, if the protest that moves us out of this slide to the right happens, we will be able to judge our culture and society by not only what we did, but what we did not do. What we did was protest, what we didn't do was cover it in the media. What we did was protest, and what we did not do was allow it to happen unencumbered by barricades and police. These things are not separate events. The protests about the tar sands and the amount of arrests made over it will be remembered, as will bart shutting off cell service, as will the total lack of the media's coverage given to these types of things so they can run another story about a Youtube video featuring a cute cat.

This was a specific point to MacIntyre's idea of the fragmentation of knowledge. If we separate things into categories, we do not take into perspective the entire thing that we're talking about. For example, if you talk about Biology, Geology, and Chemistry independently as if they are unrelated, you wont get very far. Understanding the connection that exists between these things are what make them work. Likewise, saying "This protest was about tar sands" or "This protest was about wallstreet" is not what will be remembered, because its not the way humans work. There is a unifying force that exists within all the protests, and that is the unhappiness with current political or socioeconomic trends. Likewise, the lack of coverage and arrests that are made are also part of the same picture. You can say they chose not to cover a certain event, but looking at the big picture of things, you can fully understand the situation at hand.

The alternative is that nothing is done and we slide farther into Facism. I think the majority of people are very angry with their political system. However, the worry of the next dollar or next meal is on the majority of our minds. I think once people can stop worrying about their job, they'll have time to care about their corrupt politics. If this isn't the case, I fear where we will end up

I hope we've established where the right stands at this point. So, if we do nothing, and the ideas here are ignored, we will continue to slip farther to the right, since the "left" that exists lets the right set the bounds for debate, its enviable that current trends will continue. I also made the point that people are worried about their jobs more than their politics right now. Protests historically have happened when things start to get better. I do make the assumption here that this happens because people have more time to focus on their corrupt politicians, and realize more quickly when they're being fucked, but I think that is probably a semi accurate assumption.

Hopefully this cleared something up?

[Drex]

I'm not too sure how you disagree with what I said. I made three points in that post. I used a bit of romantic language in making those points, but I don't think that it makes them wrong.

Sorry I'll try to lay it out in a simpler manner, since going into any amount of detail makes you ignorant of a situation, or even worse, on the completely other side of the point you were making.

1. Current politics cant continue the way that they are going
2. Events that happen are part of our societies memory, are not separate or fragmented events, and will play a part in future movements.
3. Once people stop worrying about their job or their food, they might start to care more about their politics, and these events will eventually play a role in the future.

Is that any better?

Not really. Let me try a different angle:

Let's pretend the government, investors, etc. decide to take you seriously. You sit down before the White House, Congress, and everyone on "Wall Street", and they want to hear the protestors' plan for correcting society's ills. What do you think these people would say? What would you say to them? "We're becoming fascists and we need to stop, so stop guys!"? Surely you have something more material than that.

The Egyptian revolutions were successful in large part because they had a unified list of demands. "We want Mubarak's resignation and we want him arrested! We want an end to the Emergency! We want the Parliament dissolved!" and so on. You could find these demands on posters, signs, giant banners, etc. In most organized protests, everyone there knows the score. There may be some who disagree with one or two things on the list, or who want amendments and other details slightly different, but for the most part the people are on the same page. Compare that to American "protests", where 50 people with 75-cent posterboards from their nearest Walmart jot down catch phrases and talking points and wave them around like idiots. Forget demands and grievances, they'll leave that to somebody else (often the very people they're protesting against, nice). They just want to complain. And nothing happens because nobody present even knows what the hell they actually want.

All this "times are hard", "Wall Street vs Main Street", "Big [industry]" rhetoric is just politics and talking points. A movement needs substance, not parroted media catchphrases. And the contempt for the market's ever-increasing volatility is just technophobia - prices of stocks shifted second by second long before high-speed internet access. Technology and institutional investing just gave more people the chance to participate (if, and this is important, they choose to).

[Senoska]

Not really. Let me try a different angle:

Let's pretend the government, investors, etc. decide to take you seriously. You sit down before the White House, Congress, and everyone on Wall Street, and they want to hear the protestors' plan for correcting society's ills. What do you think these people would say? What would you say to them? "We're becoming fascists and we need to stop, so stop guys!"? Surely you have something more material than that.

The Egyptian revolutions were successful in large part because they had a unified list of demands. "We want Mubarak's resignation and we want him arrested! We want an end to the Emergency! We want the Parliament dissolved!" and so on. You could find these demands on posters, signs, giant banners, etc. In most organized protests, everyone there knows the score. There may be some who disagree with one or two things on the list, or who want amendments and other details slightly different, but for the most part the people are on the same page. Compare that to American "protests", where 50 people with 75-cent posterboards from their nearest Walmart jot down catch phrases and talking points and wave them around like idiots. Forget demands and grievances, they'll leave that to somebody else (often the very people they're protesting against, nice). They just want to complain. And nothing happens because nobody present even knows what the hell they actually want.

All this "times are hard", "Wall Street vs Main Street", "Big [industry]" rhetoric is just politics and talking points. A movement needs substance, not parroted media catchphrases.

I never made the claim I had the solution to the problem. There are so many demands that have to be made, that in my personal opinion, the current situation is likely unfix-able. I could say the same thing you've heard a million times before, that money should be taken out of politics, but I don't think that'll even come close to solving the issues right now. You would have to roll back 50 years of politics to get to a system that would work. In my opinion, of course.

I didn't think I was repeating the "Wall street vs Main Street" catch phrases. I thought I had made a pretty clear point, which apparently slipped over your head. I was aiming for something that would have to have been read into beyond just the words on the screen, but even with a basic understanding of our politics, would have made sense. I apologize for that, since apparently coming to this debate I'm automatically assumed to be ignorant of the situation, and just say things that I'm told.

I could give you a list of the things I want, but would that solve the problems? No, it wouldn't. I'm not going to sit here and say I have the answers to really any of the problems, but hat doesn't mean I cant voice my opinion about what is wrong. A doctor could say you have cancer, but not explain to you the exact cure for your condition. Its not bitching, its just understanding your limits and not claiming to know more than you do, which is probably what got us in this situation to begin with.

[Greatguardian]

Another alternative is that he doesn't know what the perfect solution is. Which considering how complex of a problem it is, is hardly surprising.

That's just it. There is no simple solution. The problem is enormously complex, and cannot hope to be condensed to the point where a simple change or two would solve it.

It is fine to say "I am unhappy with the way my country is treating me", but it is not necessarily helpful without a clear understanding of what exactly the country is doing that makes one unhappy.

Is it because exceedingly right-wing politicians are in office, or the fact that people are voting these politicians in? If the latter, how are these people being elected and what can be done on the individual and community levels to prevent this?

Is it because the media under/over reports topics in a way that you find inappropriate? If so, what can you do to remedy this?

The biggest problem with the "movement" as it stands now, is that the people who are participating in it are not necessarily the people who are actually affected by the wrongs they are seeking to redress. They are a directionless, purposeless mass whose individual motivations crumble under the slightest of scrutiny. How many of these teenagers and 20-odds have lost their job, or their home to this economy? How many have suffered from civil or social oppression by the hands of these notorious tea party fiends? How many have had their personal and communal tragedies go unreported by the media, while FOX News covers Miley Cyrus' 18th birthday?

It's easy for the political and professional community of this country to ignore what they see as nothing more than a mass of whiny, angsty teenagers who want nothing more than a few days out of school, some hippie sex, and the feeling that they stood up to the man.

If these people want to actually make a difference, they need to pick a single grievance, present a feasible, equitable solution, and focus on it. Doing this, they're far more likely to get people with a vested interest in being there rather than the \b\ "Dude, NYC is only like, a $50 bus ride away, we should totally go troll some wall street dudes" crowd.

[Senoska]

That's just it. There is no simple solution. The problem is enormously complex, and cannot hope to be condensed to the point where a simple change or two would solve it.

It is fine to say "I am unhappy with the way my country is treating me", but it is not necessarily helpful without a clear understanding of what exactly the country is doing that makes one unhappy.

Is it because exceedingly right-wing politicians are in office, or the fact that people are voting these politicians in? If the latter, how are these people being elected and what can be done on the individual and community levels to prevent this?

For me, the list of things that are wrong are massive, and hence why the solutions would be complex. Just to begin with, I dont agree with the three wars in five countries, I don't agree with corporations being people, I don't agree with the move towards Fascism, I don't agree with the war on drugs, I don't agree with the capitalist over all system, I don't agree with the lack of care for the fellow man, I dont agree with the media, etc. There are thousands of things to simply dislike and consider wrongs in this society. But I digress.

Is it because the media under/over reports topics in a way that you find inappropriate? If so, what can you do to remedy this?

Again, I have no idea. The media is geared towards laziness and sensationalism. Its hard to solve. Its what brings in ratings, but makes for awful news coverage. I don't even know where to begin with a solution of this problem.

The biggest problem with the "movement" as it stands now, is that the people who are participating in it are not necessarily the people who are actually affected by the wrongs they are seeking to redress. They are a directionless, purposeless mass whose individual motivations crumble under the slightest of scrutiny. How many of these teenagers and 20-odds have lost their job, or their home to this economy? How many have suffered from civil or social oppression by the hands of these notorious tea party fiends? How many have had their personal and communal tragedies go unreported by the media, while FOX News covers Miley Cyrus' 18th birthday?

I would say a lot of 20-odds have been affected by this. How many 20 year olds that come fresh out of college are without a job? How many of those same people are drowning under a mountain of debt because their parents lost their job and are unable to help with college costs? How many of those families have lost their home? I can tell you that I fit into every single category I just listed, and I know several people who are in the same situation. Even beyond that, we will get older one day, and the choices that are made now directly affect our future and how our lives will be in the next 10-20 years.

It's easy for the political and professional community of this country to ignore what they see as nothing more than a mass of whiny, angsty teenagers who want nothing more than a few days out of school, some hippie sex, and the feeling that they stood up to the man.

I'm sure it is easy for them to ignore right now. The old phrase goes: First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. They can ignore this all they want, and on some fronts, they've already begun to fight the movements, but as I mentioned earlier, these things engrave themselves in us. Eventually people start to wonder why things are being ignored. Then they wonder why we're laughing at them (Esp. if they're right!) People eventually wonder why we're fighting these ideas, and eventually, these ideas win out. Give some credit to the general populace. Not everyone is some fat hillbilly from the south who has no rationality or understanding of what goes on around them. The fact we're having this conversation proves that point.

If these people want to actually make a difference, they need to pick a single grievance, present a feasible, equitable solution, and focus on it. Doing this, they're far more likely to get people with a vested interest in being there rather than the \b\ "Dude, NYC is only like, a $50 bus ride away, we should totally go troll some wall street dudes" crowd.

Its easy for you to ignore them and make fun of them as well, but they are not just there to hang out and 'troll some wall street dudes.' I'm willing to bet that the majority of these people have legitimate grievances. You're the one saying that because they're a younger crowd, or not exactly versed enough to give a solution to a massive problem, that they shouldn't be taken seriously.