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Thread: Stats and how they work.     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #241
    Yoshi P
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    Good to know. Thanks for your patience!

  2. #242

    The edit at the end is, I'd say, a good evaluation of the long and short of it with the 1 caveat being that ATK may be prioritized over the "primary" stat that only effects AA damage (for ARC, DEX) because even if, point for point, DEX increased AA damage more than ATK*, the ATK will effect your WS damage as well.

    *I don't know of any measurements comparing DEX and ATK directly, this is just a hypothetical

    (I hope that didn't just make it more confusing again)

  3. #243
    Kaeko
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    The edit at the end is, I'd say, a good evaluation of the long and short of it with the 1 caveat being that ATK may be prioritized over the "primary" stat that only effects AA damage (for ARC, DEX) because even if, point for point, DEX increased AA damage more than ATK*, the ATK will effect your WS damage as well.

    *I don't know of any measurements comparing DEX and ATK directly, this is just a hypothetical

    (I hope that didn't just make it more confusing again)
    This is an interesting and extremely relevant question to what people want to know.

    Ideally the goal is to make a summary that looks like this:

    For X level mob,
    +1 --MOD1-- gives +X damage until cap of ___
    +1 --MOD2-- gives +Y damage until cap of ___
    +1 --ATK-- gives +Z damage until cap of ___
    +1 --STR-- gives +A damage until cap of ___

    Then you pick the highest gain and that's it with regards to gear comparisons.

    Then on top of that would need to know how base damage works, but I'd still venture to say base damage trumps all.

  4. #244

    Then there's the looming headache of how much of this is going to be changed in the future.

    I'd like to think after the previous, vast overhaul they're going to stick with it as the established model.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    Then there's the looming headache of how much of this is going to be changed in the future.

    I'd like to think after the previous, vast overhaul they're going to stick with it as the established model.
    Unless they decide that something is majorly broken, I'd be surprised if this goes through anything more than minor changes.

  6. #246

    For more exposure and criticism, here is testing I did for PGL regarding STR and ATK, based on Seiken's ARC findings:

    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post563256

    No fancy tables or charts, though.

  7. #247
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    Something keeps nagging me concerning stat caps and possible thresholds. Although there was only person on the OF to make a comment on it (and provided no real data besides "I tested it"), he did mention that reaching 340 in both applicable stats saw a jump in damage. Considering SE mentioned everything was balanced around single melded gear, could it be that they made a stat threshold extremely high where the only possible way to reach it was with multiple pieces of gear double/triple+ melded? It seems silly to have stats cap so low making multi melded gear of the same stat practically worthless. This is stats only of course and for melee damage.

    Of course, we don't have all the details yet either in regards to how a mob's stats factor in as well.

  8. #248
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    I know what player you've talking about and I challenged him on his remarks on his increasing return tier theory (because he says it applies to everything... attack formula, defense formula, magic attack formula) and the fact he never says anything beyond "I tested it". He has yet to respond back. I know for DEF/VIT, which is probably the most thoroughly tested of the formulas, we went up to 345 VIT and saw no change in return. It's hard to weed out relevant info from hearsay this early in the game, but I really dislike the way that person posts conclusions without backing stuff up because it's confusing.

    EDIT:
    my post here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post562015

  9. #249
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    People that say "I tested it" without any kind of data or proof are real winners. Seems to be a lot of them too. Worst is when the data does surface and their testing methods are questionable at best. Don't expect an answer from those people.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almalexia View Post
    For more exposure and criticism, here is testing I did for PGL regarding STR and ATK, based on Seiken's ARC findings:

    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post563256

    No fancy tables or charts, though.
    I think the test is well performed. Only thing I would add is it seems that the "280 cap" was a premature call. There seems to be other stats that modify the cap outside of player level (though we believe dlvl is not one of them). So the story gets complicated really fast.

  11. #251
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    Has there been any data on which stat is PGL's WS mod and whether or not Magic Attack and INT affect Fist of (Element) damage?

  12. #252

    INT affects elemental fists in the same way it affects regular fists. All of your damage stats (STR/INT/ATK) work like this.

    Elemental potency doesn't affect fists, so I doubt general attack magic potency would. I wonder if they forgot to turn the switch on for this, since it's confusing for potency to appear on PGL weapon of all places. I should add that I've only tested in amounts of +19 earth potency. Someone on Lodestone--can't find the post--says you need more potency to see significant improvements because punches don't hit as hard as spells. Sounds intuitive, I guess, but I can't be assed to probe further now that the patch is only a week away.

  13. #253
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    Hey Alma. Just wanted to point something out.













    CAN'T USE GLANZFAUST IN FF14.









    Just sayin.

  14. #254
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    I guess my last question regarding stats at this point is how important is it to cap your secondary AA/WS, and if not does the answer change if the secondary stat is the WS stat? Should we aim for the 280/290 range on both before dumping ATK/STR or is it best to just as close as you can and then go all into ATK/STR?

  15. #255

    Can't really give a solid answer to that without some idea of the relative increases of the AA-only stat vs ATK.

    I don't think there's enough conflict in gear slots for it to make a huge difference tho. Just cap the AA-WS stat, then look for ATK/STR-for-ATK, then fill in any blanks with the AA-only stat where possible.

    Really wish ATK gains from STR showed in the stat window, they give us much more info in XIV than they did in XI (acc, eva, matk, macc, etc.) and they show the relative increases in magic stats from raw stats, but not physical stats.

  16. #256
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    How would one test exactly the relations between them? MRD is my passion job and it's still under 50 so I can test it when it hits 50 before adding stats if that matters (assuming MRD still needs testing). Would it be something like this?

    Spoiler: show
    Base Test
    STR: X
    VIT: X
    ATK: X

    Strength Test
    STR: X+n
    VIT: X
    ATK: X

    Vitality Test
    STR: X
    VIT: X+n
    ATK: X

    Attack Test
    STR: X
    VIT: X
    ATK: X+n

    N would stay consistent through all 3 tests. Alma used 500 attack rounds for averages, so I would assume approx 500WS would be needed as well to determine which stat is the WS stat (assuming this isn't known, although I hope it is for ease of testing).

    Is a particular parser of the two available parsers better for this than the other?


    Rather noobish questions, I know. I apologize

  17. #257

    I'm not quite sure what it is you want to test.

    To test whether STR or VIT is the WS stat is fairly simple as it's just a matter of confirming or excluding VIT, which is easier than testing STR vs VIT as STR gives ATK that you'd have to account for.

    Just do a bunch of WS with no +VIT and a bunch with, if there's no difference in WS damage then it would be safe to assume STR is the WS stat (not an absolute confirmation but not overly presumptuous either).

    If you wanted to be thorough and also test STR you'd have to do as above, (test with no STR, test with a bunch) but you'd have to adjust for the ATK given by that STR.

    ie. If you have 240 STR in the naked test and 240+30 STR in the geared test, in order to make sure the increase in WS damage is solely from STR you'd need to reduce your ATK by 20 without reducing your STR (taking off ATK+ gear only). If the stat amounts added by your gear don't make this possible it obviously makes it more difficult.

    Basically it's easier to test VIT and use the results to either confirm that it is the WS modifier (if it increases WS damage) or as exclusion criteria to infer STR as the modifier (if it doesn't).

  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    I'm not quite sure what it is you want to test.

    To test whether STR or VIT is the WS stat is fairly simple as it's just a matter of confirming or excluding VIT, which is easier than testing STR vs VIT as STR gives ATK that you'd have to account for.

    Just do a bunch of WS with no +VIT and a bunch with, if there's no difference in WS damage then it would be safe to assume STR is the WS stat (not an absolute confirmation but not overly presumptuous either).

    If you wanted to be thorough and also test STR you'd have to do as above, (test with no STR, test with a bunch) but you'd have to adjust for the ATK given by that STR.

    ie. If you have 240 STR in the naked test and 240+30 STR in the geared test, in order to make sure the increase in WS damage is solely from STR you'd need to reduce your ATK by 20 without reducing your STR (taking off ATK+ gear only). If the stat amounts added by your gear don't make this possible it obviously makes it more difficult.

    Basically it's easier to test VIT and use the results to either confirm that it is the WS modifier (if it increases WS damage) or as exclusion criteria to infer STR as the modifier (if it doesn't).
    Good test, find the cap for STR. like seiken did with PIE on ARC though not as straitforward since you would need to incrementally increase STR till the linear increase changes (where you only get gains from the ATK 2:3 ratio part) this would be where the slope levels out.

    Although this is not really important since the best build is really easy to hit the 300 STR/VIT area and that is with a dedicated ATK glove and ifrit axe.

    Something meaningful would be to plot increases in parry and evasion using materia and find if there is a sweet spot to get featherfoot and foresight to proc each time you put them up. Or if you can make evasion/parry build viable.

  19. #259
    Kaeko
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    I can save you guys some trouble, though I cannot post the actual data yet. These are just some basic conclusions from Seiken's current tests that aren't out yet.

    * STR is the WS modifier for all melee classes other than ARC (which uses PIE).
    * The modifier caps can change and are not fixed at 280. This cap change is based on Base Damage in addition to other factors which we're stuck on (currently looking at)

  20. #260

    The plot thickens.

    Just trying to think about how that would work (being based on DMG) while remaining balanced makes my head hurt.

    Hope the testing isn't too arduous.