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Thread: Stats and how they work.     submit to reddit submit to twitter submit to tumblr

  1. #41
    D. Ring
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaeko View Post
    Poison II / DoT Spells:

    I tested DoTs mostly using Poison II and with 2 different methods. The first mimicked the way I originally tested DoTs prior to 1.19 here; the other was using star marmots outside Ul'Dah, which have a low enough max HP for me to directly figure out by throwing rocks on a DoH class.

    Using the Lemur "Soil Smear" method by using a DoT then having the Lemur give the enfeeble back to me, I was able to determine that the amount of damage per tick. PIE did seem to affect the damage per tick. Briefly, I took 2 THMs, one with PIE of 235 and another with 271 vs. Lv42 Lemur. Using Poison II, the set with 235 PIE gave 28 Damage per Tick, whereas the build with 271 PIE gave 29. The damage also seems to vary greatly on elemental resist now. For instance, taking a R50 CON with THM trait on a Lv44 Lemur:

    Choke II: 16 | Burn II: 7 | Poison II: 23 | Bio II: 12

    This suggested to me that elemental resists may play a role in determining the damage per tick. I then tried to confirm this by giving myself Shell II, then having the Lemur use "Light Scratch" to steal my Shell II, then using the same Soil Smear technique. The result showed that for a THM with a 25 damage per tick Poison II (261 PIE vs. Lv42 Lemur), this value was reduced to 21 damage per tick whent he Lemur had stolen my Shell II, confirming that elemental resistances do factor into the damage determination formula.

    Moving on to Star Marmots in Ul'dah, which I found to have an HP of exactly 67 by throwing rocks at them on DoH. I would then extend the max HP bar on the UI to across the whole screen then use DoTs to see the HP drop off. I would then screenshot and very crudely count the # of pixels taken off the HP bar and relate it back as a % of the total HP bar to find the % of 67 HP taken off. Doing this with Poison II at both PIE = 220 and 301, I found that the Poison II damage per tick appeared to be exactly 30 HP/tick for BOTH builds, implying it caps.

    * Damage per tick affected by both user PIE/enfeebling and the mob's elemental resist
    * The damage per tick on spells appears to have a cap (30 for Poison II)


    Admittedly, these tests were done rather crudely. For instance, I did not even note my actual enfeebling magic skill during these tests, only the PIE change. Overall I was extremely disappointed with DoTs (especially at the very low Poison II cap...), which probably led to the lack-luster testing and lack of a formula determination. This would be an interesting set of tests to revisit when we are able to re-allocate stats, but for now, I think SE has killed a DoT build (which was admittedly overpowered prior to 1.19) for the time being with the very low caps. Of note I do not know what a Poison II would deal to Ifrit since this is a difficult topic to test on high level mobs without knowing their elemental resists; so I am unable to answer the question of "should I use DoTs on Ifrit?"
    Nice, and yes indeed it is some pathetic scaling. Recently had the same discussion and did the same tests, so I guess I'll throw out there that all other DoTs cap at 15 according to the pixel test outside Uldah. Bio/dia/con DoTs are all the same. I didn't do anything with Lemurs though, so the Shell data intrigues me.

    Regarding Ifrit and DoTs, also had this same discussion and it's near-impossible to come to any outright conclusions. Especially when considering his passive regen, and the fact that regen vs. DoTs on players is cumulative (50 damage poison and a 50/tick sac = your HP doesn't move). DoTs almost positively will have a set DPS, which at best is partially mitigated by regen (if not fully). Actual DPS =/= Effective DPS, and that doesn't even touch uptime and the fact that they take 3 seconds to tick after being re-applied.

  2. #42
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    Basically THM sucks. Got it (think we were onto this already though).

    Nice tests. It's a shame things are changing so rapidly. I think this is good enough for now and extensive testing would just be kind of a waste of time.

  3. #43
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    I recently pugged a DH, and DoTs melted away Ogre just the same as before.. so I'm not really sure how much they actually changed in 1.19. The problem here is that the content now has a passive regen, which causes DoTs to be attacking a different HP bar than everything else. It's pretty dumb, and while attacking regen can never be a bad thing.. actual damage will always be better.

  4. #44
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    The biggest questions I have about stats in this game you guys can probably answer easily.

    Dexterity vs Accuracy & Strength vs Attack - what's the difference, what is more beneficial?

    My other questions are about the crafting and gathering stats. I just really don't understand what any of them do.

    If there is some basic resource to look this shit up with that I am unaware of I'd be happy to peruse a link anyone could provide. Most of the sites I find for ff14 info seem to be terribly outdated, or lacking even basic information.

  5. #45
    the whitest knight u' know
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    Quote Originally Posted by djzombie View Post
    The biggest questions I have about stats in this game you guys can probably answer easily.

    Dexterity vs Accuracy & Strength vs Attack - what's the difference, what is more beneficial?

    My other questions are about the crafting and gathering stats. I just really don't understand what any of them do.

    If there is some basic resource to look this shit up with that I am unaware of I'd be happy to peruse a link anyone could provide. Most of the sites I find for ff14 info seem to be terribly outdated, or lacking even basic information.
    Dexterity vs Accuracy: I don't know, but most people tend to ignore both of these stats since a) DEX no longer increases evasion, b) DEX no longer affects critical hit rates, and c) player accuracy has been boosted to the point of ridiculousness.

    Strength vs Attack: Again, I'm not positive what they individually affect, but the word on the street is that Attack appears to have a much more significant and obvious effect on physical damage dealt.



    Crafting/Gathering stats... I'm not sure which you're talking about, but some were just cleared up:

    Gathering: decreases the rate at which your "remainder" gauge depletes, essentially making it easier to gather whatever you're gathering
    Output: increases the amount of attempts you are allowed at each gathering point before you have to move on.
    Perception: increases the chances of gathering high-quality items

    DEX/VIT/STR (depending on class): makes it easier to determine the proper force/angle/movement to get certain items.
    PIE/MND/INT (depending on class): increases odds of gathering multiple items at once.



    As for crafting...

    Craftsmanship vs Magic Craftsmanship: I think each recipe either utilizes one or the other, but not both... and the relevant stat will increase your chances of successful actions instead of failing. I have yet to come across a solid testing of which recipes use what. Currently I think the assumption is on solid items made of physical materials (craftsmanship) vs making magical or enhanced things like potions or crystals (magic craftsmanship).

    Control: decreases your chances of getting elemental instabilities and aetherial sparking (sparks make your losses bigger).

    Also, each craft has two stats, one for their main tool, and one for their off-hand tool. The stat that matches the current tool being used will increase the amount of quality you gain from successful actions.



    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post415358

  6. #46
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    Testing individual actions seems like a waste of time considering what's in the pipes for 1.20..

  7. #47
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    Do you mean recipes?

  8. #48
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    No, skills spells etc. When they say "full redistribution and rehaul blahblah" I wouldn't count on anything staying the way it is now.. except of course the basic stat algorithms.

    But, we'll know more about that next week.

  9. #49
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    Ah, I see.

    I wonder when and how they plan on re-implementing the attribute-reallocation system.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by miokomioko View Post
    Ah, I see.

    I wonder when and how they plan on re-implementing the attribute-reallocation system.
    Wasn't it originally planned for 1.19, but got pushed back a patch or two?

    I'm personally hoping for a system where you can select your primary/secondary/tertiary stats, and they'll get the bulk of the points while the other stats just sort of stay below or around average, and you can select those stats specific to the class/job you're playing. Have an NPC in town that will let you reselect those stats for a fee if you need to change things around, the amount needed being based on level so money continues to exit the player economy.

  11. #51
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    I still think point allocation is dumb and should be limited to the stat conversion traits we have now.

    Add more tiers and/or make them work in %s rather than individual numbers.

    ie. -5/10/15% INT -> +5/10/15% STR

    The issue I have with stat allocation is having to reallocate all those stats for different situations potentially constantly, invite a THM to help heal "sorry I'm spec'd for enfeeb/nuke, gimme a few to reallocate everything."

  12. #52

    Quote Originally Posted by miokomioko View Post
    Dexterity vs Accuracy: I don't know, but most people tend to ignore both of these stats since a) DEX no longer increases evasion, b) DEX no longer affects critical hit rates, and c) player accuracy has been boosted to the point of ridiculousness.
    Strength in Numbers is ridiculous. It's basically 2 Heaven's Eye IV materia out of thin air.

    I have +16ACC in gear, but even that is enough to hit Ifrit with literally 100% accuracy. The same equipment, solo, against lv.52 leve mobs has pride-shattering results. So either Ifrit has the EVA of a baby, or ACC is more valuable than you give it credit for.

  13. #53
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    And in addition to the extra tier for current stat converters, add in three tiers of new ones that effect complimentary stats with less bonus/more penalty.

    ie. Power Overwhelming - converts 6/9/12 dexterity into 3/6/9 strength.
    Stroke of Genius - converts 6/9/12 mind into 3/6/9 intelligence.

    Etc. for bad trait names.

  14. #54
    Kaeko
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeras View Post
    I recently pugged a DH, and DoTs melted away Ogre just the same as before.. so I'm not really sure how much they actually changed in 1.19. The problem here is that the content now has a passive regen, which causes DoTs to be attacking a different HP bar than everything else. It's pretty dumb, and while attacking regen can never be a bad thing.. actual damage will always be better.
    How many DoTs were you able to stack onto the Ogre? For hypothetical purposes, say you landed every debuff possible at max cap for 30 + 15x8 = 150 damage a tick. That's 3000 damage a minute. If they lowered the max HP of the Ogre from the original ~32000 to something significantly smaller I could see it still making a big difference damage-wise with an 'eyeball' test. The alternative is that the DoTs are doing more than the 30/15 caps, in which case would be interesting to take a look at. I think figuring out the rough max HP of the ogre would be a good start.

  15. #55
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    Just THM DoTs, don't even think I had Choke on the bar at that point. And it was only a one run eyeball test, cos who the fk wants to do multiple DH pugs.

    I honestly don't think there's too much of a difference between DoT damage on Ogre and DoT damage on Ifrit, but that the regen makes all the difference for reasons I previously stated. But obviously that is impossible to prove, test, or even come up with reasonable evidence outside of a theory to support. It would be just as easy to say 'less damage' based on observations, but I hate jumping to conclusions without supporting evidence and hate other people doing so.

    And if they lowered Ogres HP I didnt notice it. It died noticeably slower than I'm used to due to the fact that it was a pug.

  16. #56

    I've been doing some tests with critical hit rate gear and my results are ... well I don't know if I'm stupid or if the thing is broken but the results are BS

    I tested as mrd on a group of 47-49 hogs so I could aoe and get more samples in a short amount of time.
    I parsed with lrParser.

    After one hour with demilune bhuj (crit +12), I got a 11% crit rate.
    After one more hour with demilune bhuj (crit +12) and sipahi gloves (crit +15) for a total of crit +27, I got the same 11% crit rate.
    In despair, I tried one more our with DEX rings (+20 in total) even though the devs said it doesn't affect crit rate and I got the same old 11% crit rate

    I spent countless hours getting a good crit gear for my pgl (verdant hora and sipahi gloves) and my testings depress me.
    I haven't tested extenssively en pgl, but so far it seems I crit even less on pgl with +32 crit.

    Anyways ... Anyone has tested crit rate too?
    What are your observations?

  17. #57
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    Feels broken personally crit is so hard to nail down, pre 1.19 I could ramp my dex up and see the difference but now its a crapshoot

  18. #58
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    DEX does not affect crit rate. The only things that affect crit rate are level / level correction and +crit rate from gear.

    I did some very brief, inconclusive testing with Sipahi Gloves and saw a ~0.1% increase that could have resulted just from variance, since my sample size was only ~100 attacks.

  19. #59
    the whitest knight u' know
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    One thing that really sucks about experimenting with individual attacks is eliminating the directional variable (front/rear/left/right)... since we know so little about it.

  20. #60
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    [dev1144] The damage bonus uniformly granted to attacks dealt from the back and side of an enemy has been abolished.
    Only certain monsters will exhibit vulnerability to attacks from specific directions and will take additional damage in such instances. This change does not affect the accuracy bonus currently in place for attacks dealt under the same conditions.