Stats and how they work.

[Stanislaw]

Great work Kaeko. Very interesting that you say INT>mattk for Thundara. (feel free to discuss why this is in more detail, very interested to hear)

Since Thundara is the main staple of THM/BLM damage, should INT be prioritized over m.attk?

Looking forward to your next post/blog-entry about this.

From what I understand, the modifier for the 'damage boost' you get from the Thundara combo is highly dependent on INT. Almost to a point where if you increase it high enough, it's (almost) more potent than a critical hit Thundaga in a combo.

However, given the increased importance of Fire/Fira/Firaga/Flare in the new raids, I wouldn't jump on the 'INT for Thundara' bandwagon just yet. Increasing M.Atk is clearly better damage wise for those spells. Well, that and Elemental Potency, which from what I understand is equal to M.Atk but exclusive to just one element. However, it's still something to consider because the materias for Elemental Potency give a higher stat increase compared to that of M.Atk. Still can't quite decide which materia to put on my Feet slot.

Then again, given the fact that INT and M.Atk boosts from materia don't overlap in armor slots, you don't really have to worry about prioritizing which one to increase over the other. The one you should be worrying over, actually, is M.Acc, because mobs actually resist spells quite often now.

[Niiro]

Considering 99% of BLM I see are just using full AF (and are on BLM when they shouldn't be) I don't find many ppl that actually care about playing the job effectively as much as they do about "that FF feeeeel".

Every piece of BLM AF can be replaced with situationally and/or universally better gear (not requiring multi-melds either).

When I ask BLMs to come THM to Ifrit because being BLM does virtually nothing for the fight they either cry foul ("but convert!" yea, no) or say they simply don't have gear for THM.

-_-

[Lokus]

I haven't posted the MATK info because I want to be thorough first. But I can tell you ahead of time:

Point for point, MATK > INT for every spell in the game except Thundara on Combo (for reasons I won't get into here)
Point for point, INT > MATK by FAR when using Thundara on Combo
MATK > INT still for higher tier spells, but the difference is not as big for upper tier spells like Thundaga
Thundara on Combo becomes more efficient the less damage spells deal (for whatever reason, whether it is dlvl or resistance). Examples of this are Ifrit and Chimera.
INT, MATK, elemental potency are the only 3 "player controlled" stats that affect your non-critical damage with the exception of Holy, which has an additional MND modifier.
There is a MATK cap. You will never hit it on anything you care about.

I haven't started writing up MATK stuff on the blog yet so it'll be awhile before anything formal is up. There are still aspects of the formula I'm having difficulties with. Currently working with Seiken to flesh out things, but if it takes too long I'll just go ahead and post what I have.

After messing around with lvl 65 cactuars/qiqirn/elementals and lvl 71 drakes, seems like the quirk of the Thundara combo is based on resistance and not dlvl. I can post up some numbers I got when I get home. Very annoying tests to do due to resists along with stubborn crits.

[Cooleko]

Considering 99% of BLM I see are just using full AF (and are on BLM when they shouldn't be) I don't find many ppl that actually care about playing the job effectively as much as they do about "that FF feeeeel".

Every piece of BLM AF can be replaced with situationally and/or universally better gear (not requiring multi-melds either).

When I ask BLMs to come THM to Ifrit because being BLM does virtually nothing for the fight they either cry foul ("but convert!" yea, no) or say they simply don't have gear for THM.

-_-

I picked up BLM recently (moslty GLA/MRD tank before the big job update) and I typically parse at the top of anything i do wearing the full AF. The few pieces I had (DH shirt/shoes, black/white pants, +10 crown) were substantially improved upon by switching to AF. I dont think there is a need currently to request a BLM to wear other gear or drop down to THM. Even on ifrit, BLM was great, Sanguine Rite kept me in the clear after hellfire and hate was minimal the entire fight. There are some instances I wish I had cure (coincutter wipe) but in those instances you just '/job off' and get on your way.

If someone asked me to change I would question the quality of BLM they have interacted with (which I recognize is very low depending on who you play with), but dont pick on a blm in full AF because you can (and most do) play a very good game with it!

tl;dr It seems like you have more of a problem with bad players than you do with BLM in AF

[Elcura]

His point is you could do better with real gear and be more useful on THM.

[Fievel]

Really no excuse to wear full AF on BLM, there are other cheap and easy to get options.

As said before, it's not like you need to double meld or anything, most of blm AF is horrible and easy to beat.

[solracht]

be more useful on THM.

I only take damage from hellfire, convert, and some eruptions pre-50% (which I just eat sometimes if skills are ready), and second wind+necrogenesis are more than enough to keep myself at full HP all the time. I don't see how I could be more useful as THM unless the group sucks (and I doubt we'd win consistently if we had people who needed all that extra support).

The only time I can see myself switching to THM for Ifrit is if I'm taking people who need to learn the fight (at that point it's not a real run anymore though).

Am I missing something? Serious question.

EDIT: Can take it to PMs if you'd like (or the Random question thread), I don't want to keep on derailing one of the few useful threads of this section.

[Elcura]

I only take damage from hellfire, convert, and some eruptions pre-50% (which I just eat sometimes if skills are ready), and second wind+necrogenesis are more than enough to keep myself at full HP all the time. I don't see how I could be more useful as THM unless the group sucks (and I doubt we'd win consistently if we had people who needed all that extra support).

The only time I can see myself switching to THM for Ifrit is if I'm taking people who need to learn the fight (at that point it's not a real run anymore though).

Am I missing something? Serious question.

EDIT: Can take it to PMs if you'd like (or the Random question thread), I don't want to keep on derailing one of the few useful threads of this section.

Cure, Stoneskin, Sacred Prism (+AOE Sanguine Rite), Raise and Sentinel are far useful than Flare, Freeze, Burst and Convert when it comes to supporting the party. It's pretty easy to see that THM is more useful to the party while BLM just makes you...what? A more focused damage dealer (which THM can easily keep up with). Nothing BLM does is particularly different than THM, while THM is able to support (itself as well as others) better than BLM.

It's not a question of whether you can use BLM effectively enough not to be a burden (which is what a good BLM is, not necessarily an asset in more than dealing damage) but just whether THM is more useful - and it is. You can deal as much damage while taking less and helping your party take less. Even if you're with experienced people, you can still make life easier.

[Kurokikaze]

Let's try to stay on topic folks...

[Kaeko]

After messing around with lvl 65 cactuars/qiqirn/elementals and lvl 71 drakes, seems like the quirk of the Thundara combo is based on resistance and not dlvl. I can post up some numbers I got when I get home. Very annoying tests to do due to resists along with stubborn crits.

So the easy explanation (which is actually the exact explanation) is that Thundara combo uses the exact same formula as thundara non-combo but adds +700 MATK.

The reason INT is better than MATK for Thundara (Combo) has to do with diminishing returns. INT and MATK essentially multiply each other in the formula so you want to "balance" the 2 out. In normal situations you need more MATK, but if the game gives you +700, then you need more INT. That's the easiest way I can phrase it without a math example.

This also explains why Thundara works so well on high level targets. The formula has a MATK-ELERESIST check, but there is no INT check. Your INT is your INT. So by adding +700 MATK, you are trying to overcome the increased stats on the opponent. This explains why the less damage you do on spells, the more effective that +700 MATK will become.

For now you'll have to take my word for it but when I get some down time I definitely will post all the methodology behind this.

[Lokus]

That makes alot of sense considering the results I got. Link to my Thunder data~. It's not complete in some parts due to me raging from getting resisted or having a failed crit when I needed it but the gist is there. I look forward to the rest of your results.

[Kaeko]

"Block" Damage Reduction, Divine Veil, and Outmaneuver

Copy Pasting from Lodestone blog post
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...cicuid=1882333

Divine Veil and Divine Regen:
* Special regen buff with now unique name to allow stacking
* Lasts 30 seconds from start of cure cast on PLD.
* If cure is cast multiple times on PLD with buff, Divine Regen overwrites itself back to 30 sec duration.
* Buffs everyone around the PLD but does not buff the PLD himself
* HP cured does not affect Regen HP/tick. Nor did Cure vs. Cura.
* Consistent 85HP/tick normal; 113HP/tick with AF pants.
* HP/tick unaffected by Enhancing Skill (of both CNJ and PLD).
* Does indeed now stack with Regen.

Divine Veil and Blocking:
* Forces 20 seconds of 100% block rate from front as description says
* Not "special" type of block like say Aegis Boon, just ups the rate.
* No apparent added bonus on the blocking aspect from AF legs

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Blocking in General:
* Grants a % decrease in damage taken with a successful proc
* This % decrease is based on the "Block" stat and dLVL
* dLVL plays an overwhelming role in the formula relative to "Block"

Some quick testing on R52 Blotched Mongrels and R58 Sphene Doblyns using shields with "Block" of 28, 71, and 120. DEF and VIT were kept static within tests but altered to affect the base damage taken.

R52 Blotched Mongrels, DEF=771, VIT=326 (Damage Floor Reached)
(1a) "Block" = 28: 11-17 (35-42) [-63.6%]
(1b) "Block" = 71: 9-15 (35-42) [-68.8%]
(1c) "Block" = 120: 8-13 (35-42) [-72.7%]

R58 Sphene Doblyns, DEF=916, VIT=326
(2) "Block" = 28: 102-117 (130-142) [-19.5%]

R58 Sphene Doblyns, DEF=933, VIT=326
(3) "Block" = 120: 101-111 (120-130) [-15.2%]

The Sphene Doblyn tests have some admittedly bad min/max values that are probably off; however, the point of this quick test is to show how much dLVL affects the % damage cut on blocks. By the time you get to R58s (which is the standard used for most boss mobs), your blocks are only going to cut damage by at the very most -20%. An AF PLD with 3500 HP in full party can still get 1 shot by a 4500 base damage 100 Tonz on Coincounter even after blocking (4500x0.8 > 3500). Beyond this, without Divine Veil, your block rate is going to be relatively poor and definitely unreliable. It will, however, decrease your overall physical damage taken and is quite strong on lower level "trash" mobs where the dLVL ratio is very favorable. It is only on higher end targets that dLVL penalty becomes very harsh.

EDIT: is Coincounter R58 or R56? Veil is more favorable if it's R56 but I calculated as if it was R58.

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Divine Veil and Outmaneuver

Outmaneuver grants a 10% return of MP based on the damage taken after blocking. To compare, Sanguine Rite gives 30% back and works on all damage taken (no block required), but has an initial MP cost of 336. You can maximize your blocks (and therefore your TP/MP return) by coupling Outmaneuver and Divine Veil together.

However, this does not really solve PLD's MP issue (due to losing Sanguine Rite and Featherfoot). Let's use Coincounter as an example again. Say you time your abilities perfectly and you manage to block 2 100 Tonz in the 20 second window both abilities were active for 3,500 damage each (7k total). Your MP return after almost dying twice in 20 seconds is 700. That's enough for only 2.5 Holy Succors, and 7,000 damage in 20 seconds is a tremendous rate of damage taken. Basically the MP return on Outmaneuver is awful.

I think the new update makes PLD even better than it already was on dealing with hoards of "trash mobs" (enemies with lower end dLVL in "endgame content" usually around the R50-R53 range). Divine Veil's block favors anything with lower end dLVL due to better damage reduction %; however, the benefits quickly scale down as you increase in dLVL. By the time you reach boss levels, the block damage reduction % is pretty lacking. I think for boss fights, PLD certainly now has more to work with after 1.21a, but to proclaim it better than WAR for most boss situations now is ridiculous in my opinion.

[Rocl]

I spent a little more time doing Cure testing w/ and w/o WHM AF body. However I didn't do more than ~100 casts (about 45 of each), and again came to the conclusion of about 7% difference. It's an odd number, but eugh.

[Stanislaw]

I spent a little more time doing Cure testing w/ and w/o WHM AF body. However I didn't do more than ~100 casts (about 45 of each), and again came to the conclusion of about 7% difference. It's an odd number, but eugh.

Rather than a static % increase, perhaps it's a static number increase?

[Kaeko]

Curious, did Seiken do tests against a slightly higher level mob (say, R54, as his post mentions he did testing against a R52) and the stats cap held true there too? Because if that weren't the case and different caps exist for different dLvs, different setups for bosses can be considered. To make things easier, I guess one can do tests against a mob with a lower dLv (R50) and see if the stats cap at a lower level.

This discussion should probably go into the stats thread though, lol

Redirecting this post to the stat thread here.

In his initial set of tests done in 1.20, he tested on up to R59 drakes using the R50 Faction Leve. I would CNJ tank on 4 stars (+9LVL) while he did whatever he needed to collect data. Based on these tests, we felt dLVL did not play a role in the caps. If this was changed in 1.21 we would not have seen it though, since the updated testing for 1.21 was done on R52s only.

[Stanislaw]

Redirecting this post to the stat thread here.

In his initial set of tests done in 1.20, he tested on up to R59 drakes using the R50 Faction Leve. I would CNJ tank on 4 stars (+9LVL) while he did whatever he needed to collect data. Based on these tests, we felt dLVL did not play a role in the caps. If this was changed in 1.21 we would not have seen it though, since the updated testing for 1.21 was done on R52s only.

How interesting.

Thanks for the reply!

[TacoTaru]

I read his post, but forgive me ignorance if I missed this part, did ARC's recommend stats change as well? I know it used to be STR/ATK > PIE (until cap) > DEX. Knowing that Accuracy dropped a little, DEX is obviously a tad more valuable, but does DEX actually affect WS damage now as well, or is STR still going to be the better stat to aim for?

[Kaeko]

ARC 330PIE / 295-300DEX

I think there's a bit of discussion in the Carraway guide on official forums

[Buttons]

Added most of the results I found as links in the OP. Hope this makes it easier to navigate. I might sort them better in the future and add author names. For now all that is missing is a nice image, I'll go and make one. <(^_^)>/

Edit: Finished the banner and added it.

[Kaeko]

Nice Buttons. Some quick cover testing.

Cover Testing (1.21a)
- Lasts 15 seconds on a 60 second recast timer
- Requires you to be 8 or less yalms from target, but direction does not matter
- Range to use Cover itself is larger than 8 yalms, but less than max cast range (seems like range of voke)
- Forces shift in "hate list" when within 8 yalms so redirects all attacks, including magical attacks to you
- Works for more than 1 attack - always lasts the 15 sec duration (mis-translation on English client?)
- If multiple mobs are on the cover target, redirects ALL the mobs

AF Body Cover Enhancment
- AF Body "Enhances Cover" gives 25% damage taken to MP return
- Works on both physical damage and magic damage
- Works even if you cover a target without hate. Think of it like Sanguine Rite as long as you have someone close enough to use Cover on.
- The MP recovery does NOT show up in the log like Sanguine Rite does.

Overall, very strong AF body piece as it completely changes the use of the cover move from defensive to an MP recovery tool (and a fairly strong one at that). Sanguine Rite gets 30% conversion (5% more) and 5 more seconds on the duration, but Cover does not have the initial 336 MP cost. Cover requires you to have a target semi-close to you though. I can see the 'use' of this in say a dual tank situation where maybe 2 PLDs cure each other for max Holy Succor effect and use each other as cover targets? Probably not useful in any content for 1.21 but something to think about.