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  1. #1
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    Regain Moonshade Earring: The Calculation Of Converted Store-TP

    (To Administrators, it is slightly mathy, but it's very simple math. If the posts get too mathy, you can send this to the Mathy Redux)

    There was a discussion at one point about the usefulness of the Moonshade Earring in various conditions. Based on my forum searching, there was a general consensus that the best ones were Refresh and TP+25. Although there is much data that supports this, I wanted revive this topic based on my interpretation of the meaning of Regain-- in terms of Store TP. I will make all my analysis based on an Amano SAM (5 hit build under hasted + hasso conditions) and I hope to demonstrate that a Regain Earring for a 5 hit build is equivalent to Store TP +6 in high reliability. I felt that this type of analysis was necessitated because numerous jobs have Store TP values and actively obtain x-hit builds. I'm hoping that this discussion will allow people to play around with gear to obtain said x-hit build while gaining more statistics in another slot. There is a conclusion at the bottom for people who do not want to read the entire post.

    Readme before posting: There are so many job and combinations and I realize that the advantages for +25TP for Empyrean WS and regain +1 is extremely large.

    This is not a post about which one is better.

    Generally, I am here to provide a simplified solution to represent what Regain +1 actually means-- in order for people to apply it to their Store TP calculations when they try to make an x-hit build.

    My goal is to represent this idea and to provide evidence--- ultimately as a tool for people to use when considering Regain as an earring of choice. I'm sorry I had to move this thread from FFXIAH, but I felt as this forum had more number cruncher to confirm my findings. So here I will continue:

    The reason why the Regain earring is usually annulled as reliable TP is because:
    (Taint on FFXIAH)
    "An item that sometimes you get one tic of regain and sometimes you'll get 4 is near impossible to effectively build an xhit around."

    This is almost true. However, there has to be an "average" amount of ticks that your WS will be ready for a WS. A tick in the game is 3seconds/tick. How long does it take for a situation where SAM only has a RDM as a support to achieve enough TP to WS? How much Store TP is 1 tick regain approximately related to in such a set?

    With haste in gear(maxed), hasso, and the spell Haste, the total delay of Amano is 220 which converts to roughly 3.6 seconds per rally. Without any double attacks or zanshin procs you should reach 100 TP in 18 seconds.

    This converts to 6 ticks of regain per WS, what does that convert over in terms of Store TP?

    The assumption is that in a 5 hit build, 1 Store TP = ~.1 TP. This is just for the ease of calculation and it certainly not linear but it's close enough for comparisons. Adding 1 Store TP in a 5 hit build will equate to .5 TP over 100% TP gain. With this assumption set, we can finally make some direct comparisons.

    The comparisions we'll make is in terms of seconds/double attack rallies and store TP.

    18 seconds = 5 Ticks Regain = +10 Store TP (No Double Attack)
    14.6 seconds = 4 Ticks Regain = +8 Store TP (1 Double Attack)
    10.98 seconds = 3 Ticks Regain = +6 Store TP (2 Double Attack)
    7.32 seconds = 2 Ticks Regain = +4 Store TP (3 Double Attack)

    To compare them, is to simply be comfortable about the statistics of how common it is to at least double attack once, twice, or three times to reach 100%. Ultimately, this will be based on a percentage that you are comfortable with losing.

    Personally, I would trust the regain to give me "at least":

    10.98 seconds = 3 Ticks Regain = +6 Store TP

    accounting for 2 Double attacks that may randomly occur on my trip to 100% TP. This allows you to replace +6 Store TP somewhere else in your set and still manage to obtain said 5 hit build.

    The faster you attack, the more negligible the earring will actually perform. Thus, in extremely high haste situations (Buffed Zerg), you can only trust this earring to give you 1-2 ticks which is only equated to 2-4 Store TP but it STILL gives you options to replace some gear elsewhere and still achieve your x-build.

    Accounting for all the other variables (Which I would need assistance and checks with other mathy people on this forum)

    Double Attack:
    What is the chance that you get at least 1 double attack in 4 hits assuming 20% double attack? It is 40% (x=1-.8^4). What is the chance that you somehow get two double attacks in 4 hits? 16%. What is the chance you get three double attacks in 4 hits? 6.4%! If you assume that the earring is only Store TP +6, you are accounting for 93.6% of all your rallies! But this doesn't just stop here! If you include all of the variables below, you actually increase the rate to ABOVE 95%!

    Not only that, the extra 1 TP you get from DAing a WS is usually unaccounted for which will also decrease the significance of the 1 lost tick of double attacking 3 times.

    Zanhasso:
    Same statement above with Double attack except you have to realize that DA and Zanhasso will overwrite each other if one happens to occur at the same event, thus reducing the rate slightly. I also don't know whether Zanhasso takes presedence over DA or not. All I know is that is even if you considered it synergistically with DA, is that the combined rate will be still be ~<10% and can be further be reduced by DA during a WS, or Save TP (as I will show).

    Save TP:
    No one gears a TP set for Save TP. In fact, if you consider save TP into the equation, you in turn eliminate the remaining few % remaining from a 3x Double attack/Zanhasso combination. (If you were only accounting for 90% of attack rallies and you have 20% Save TP, that 4% drops to 8% occurring rate). You can squeeze another 20% from DA.

    Meditate:
    The fact is that amano users will not have 20% TP during WS sets-- seals the deal for this one. You can think of this as the additional 4 hits "make up" for the ~3 TP that you have lost on your WS. Therefore, meditate will not affect anything that you didn't have before.

    The 5% chance that you somehow need to make an extra hit to WS over 100 WS will equate to 5 hits equating to 1 WS. In turn, a simple addition of 1 Double Attack in any other gear slot will instantly make up for the loss in damage and more. If it was a situation of uncapped haste, this value is even larger.

    Conclusion: Regain Moonshade earring under a 5 hit build under hasted/hasso conditions is roughly equivalent to a ~95% reliable Store TP+6 earring. If there are gear substitutions that give you even +1 Double attack or more due to the freeing of a Store TP slot elsewhere, gear advantages can be made despite the 5% unreliability of this earring.

  2. #2
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    You create a bubble in all your post.

    If I start from 0 TP, if I only have haste, if I'm not in Abyssea or doing VW, if I'm not taking any damage, if Zanhasso doesn't proc, if meditate is not active, if if if. I can make a swift belt seem like a great option if you let me make a thin enough bubble.

    Then after all the if'ing what gear swap would you make? With AM up you can already use atheling and mala. Would you lose AF3 body for Juogi+1, maybe if Hasso is down, but thats a whole other "if" senario for you. This has all been beaten to death, regain is too situational to justify.

  3. #3
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    No one calculates X-hit builds around "ifs". You were the one who wanted to account for them saying that if you "do account for them", regain is too random. What I state here is that regain ISN'T random enough to justify dispelling for "randomness". What I'm saying is that you basically have a Store TP +6 earring that is reliable. As far as I know, people gear their equipment based on the x-hit and Store TP. I demonstrated here that accouting for all your "randomness factors", this earring will still perform as a Store TP +6 earring. If you are somewhat uncomfortable about the ~5% chance that MAYBE it won't (thus losing 1 WS out of 100 WS's you do), then yes, this gear is too random. But for some people, being in that 95% is worth considering other gear options. As I stated before, even if you simply removed a rose strap for a pole strap, you will already see improvements.

    The only weakness that I provide for my theory is for high haste conditions where you are basically zerging with max Haste (which is the only bubble I will claim to). My post before "Accounting for the variables" is only made for your behalf and people who may have questions about it. Everything above that is all that I claim as information that I find would be useful for people to use.

    The only argument that you need to rebuttal is mathematically show that the randomness factors are so great that you can no longer make the assumption that Store TP = +6. I show here that it is consistent enough to be considered a piece of good gear. Afterall, how many Store TP +6 items do you see for ear slots? I'm sure someone will find this useful.

  4. #4

    only 19 posts, couldn't possibly be right

  5. #5
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    If the amount of time it takes to get to 100tp is random then the number of tics you get is random. It can take a maximum of 4 swings to reach 100tp and a minimum of 1 swing. You have a very well geared SAM, everytime med is up you can WS,WS,WS and sometimes get 4 WSs off before it wears. How does Sekk play into this? When it comes to getting 100tp SAM is one of the fastest most random jobs out there.

    You didn't answer my other question, if you had a 6stp earring, what would you change?

  6. #6
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    If you read my posts above, it's NOT that random. With your information of "eyeing" it, you can't make any claims on how often you can possibly achieve those "super fast 100 TP" situations. I showed you that it's not random enough to claim that. And in the end, it's based on each individual player on how much they are willing to sacrifice. If you consider the randomness factor to be higher than I claim, you can always claim it to be Store TP +4. That's all this post is saying!

    Finally, the question is "what would I do"?

    I would do the following:
    Main: Amano
    Sub: Pole Grip
    Ranged: Hagenia Stone(3)
    Neck: Unkai Nodowa(3)
    Ear1: Brutal Earring(1)
    Ear2: Moonshade (6)
    Body: Juogi +1
    Head: Zelus Tiara
    Ring1: Rajas Ring (5)
    Ring2: Tyrants Ring (4)
    Back: M. Kappa (3)
    Legs: Unkai +2 Leg (7)
    Feet: Ace's Sabatons (5)

    20.9TP = Carbonara. Can also make the change in this set to the +2% Quad neck and then use a Rose Strap
    20.8TP = If you make the switch of Rose Strap instead of Pole Strap, you eat Red Curry.

    Advantages? You get to switch a Unkai Domaru +2 out for a Juogi +1 which has +5 DA and +4 Crit Rate. If you use carbonara during capped attack situations, you are running with +7 more double attack +4 Critical than the gear set that has has neither. You will have a true 25% haste. (not 24.6)

  7. #7
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    Oh, nevermind. SAM gets a stupid high amount of STP.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keichan View Post
    If you read my posts above, it's NOT that random. With your information of "eyeing" it, you can't make any claims on how often you can possibly achieve those "super fast 100 TP" situations. I showed you that it's not random enough to claim that. And in the end, it's based on each individual player on how much they are willing to sacrifice. If you consider the randomness factor to be higher than I claim, you can always claim it to be Store TP +4. That's all this post is saying!

    Finally, the question is "what would I do"?

    I would do the following:
    Main: Amano
    Sub: Pole Grip
    Ranged: Hagenia Stone(3)
    Neck: Unkai Nodowa(3)
    Ear1: Brutal Earring(1)
    Ear2: Moonshade (6)
    Body: Juogi +1
    Head: Zelus Tiara
    Ring1: Rajas Ring (5)
    Ring2: Tyrants Ring (4)
    Back: M. Kappa (3)
    Legs: Unkai +2 Leg (7)
    Feet: Ace's Sabatons (5)

    20.9TP = Carbonara. Can also make the change in this set to the +2% Quad neck and then use a Rose Strap
    20.8TP = If you make the switch of Rose Strap instead of Pole Strap, you eat Red Curry.

    Advantages? You get to switch a Unkai Domaru +2 out for a Juogi +1 which has +5 DA and +4 Crit Rate. If you use carbonara during capped attack situations, you are running with +7 more double attack +4 Critical than the gear set that has has neither. You will have a true 25% haste. (not 24.6)


    2.5% Zanhasso,23 att, 1acc,10stp vs 5 da 4 crit. Juogi+1 has been outdated for almost a year now.

    Should have sold your Juogi+1 when it was worth something like I did

    Instead keep Unkai, ditch the regain earring for Unkai or an attack earring, add atheling and mala and toss the carbonara. If the attack doesn't matter on the mob, none of this math does either because the mob is getting trashed. If the attack does matter you have a superior setup and don't need your regain moonshade.


    JORDAN

  9. #9
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    Unfortuantly, since you are a masa user, +25TP might just win, but if it by chance does not:

    http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/222265

    You can replace the Usukane Feet for Ace's to hit the 25% cap because you're at 24.6. Then, you can replace the rose strap with a Pole Grip for another +2% DA. Too bad it's a masamune set and the +25TP earring actually counts for something and I'm not sure if those upgrades are sufficient for Masa builds. Of course, that delves into "Which earring is better" which is clearly not the topic of discussion here.

    "Instead keep Unkai, ditch the regain earring for Unkai or an attack earring, add atheling and mala and toss the carbonara. If the attack doesn't matter on the mob, none of this math does either because the mob is getting trashed. If the attack does matter you have a superior setup and don't need your regain moonshade."

    (Actually, you can still eliminate the Unkai Nodawa for the +2% quad neck too in the above 5 hit build too, I forgot to include the TP gained from Store TP in WS set from my calculation)

    Now we are getting to a stage where now it's "situational" and that's just based on mob choice. (Now comparing non capped attack and capped attack). (But if the mob wasn't being trashed, maybe you should be on seigan and super tanking it and not sponging it with Hasso?). All situational from here on out. But for anyone who could use a +6 Store TP earring for a 5 hit build, Moonshade is it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    Oh, nevermind. SAM gets a stupid high amount of STP.
    lol, really?

    edit: Didn't refresh page ; ;

  11. #11
    Ridill
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    You do a lot of math to in the end just say

    "Personally, I would trust the regain to give me "at least":

    10.98 seconds = 3 Ticks Regain = +6 Store TP"

    With really nothing to back up your chosing that particular one. No figuring how often it will be each one etc. On top of completely not accounting for zanshin, triple attack, meditate and save tp using some sort of logic to rule them out as negligible effects when in fact they make a huge difference. Zanshin being nothing like double attack thanks to Ikishoten. Triple attack not even accounted for so I'll assume you mean never in abyssea. Meditate and save tp will both shave a hit off most the time giving you less time to regain.

    1 stp ~ .1 tp is in fact not close enough. That extra .011 can make a huge difference. And indeed comparing attack rounds to regain tics kinda fails. If you really wanted to do it right you'd calculate how much regain you got in that time period and then calculate how much store tp you could take out to still be at 100%. Then you'd take each instance of DA and factor that round in. And as you go along you'd find out that it is indeed fucking random

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    You do a lot of math to in the end just say

    "Personally, I would trust the regain to give me "at least":

    10.98 seconds = 3 Ticks Regain = +6 Store TP"

    With really nothing to back up your chosing that particular one. No figuring how often it will be each one etc. On top of completely not accounting for zanshin, triple attack, meditate and save tp using some sort of logic to rule them out as negligible effects when in fact they make a huge difference. Zanshin being nothing like double attack thanks to Ikishoten. Triple attack not even accounted for so I'll assume you mean never in abyssea. Meditate and save tp will both shave a hit off most the time giving you less time to regain.

    1 stp ~ .1 tp is in fact not close enough. That extra .011 can make a huge difference. And indeed comparing attack rounds to regain tics kinda fails. If you really wanted to do it right you'd calculate how much regain you got in that time period and then calculate how much store tp you could take out to still be at 100%. Then you'd take each instance of DA and factor that round in. And as you go along you'd find out that it is indeed fucking random
    The entire front part of the post explains that 3 ticks of regain is reasonable for most of the attack rallies that you will make. And the way I did it was exactly how you asked me to explained it (I'd calculated how much regain in a particular time frame including haste hasso and gear), and then, I took instance of DA and factored that. That is how I go to to conclusion that it is reasonable to consider 3 ticks of regain - which accounts for 2 DA attack rounds per rally maximum (which equates to about 6 Store TP). And that above shows that it is NOT random. (I'd like to politely point out that you pasted 10.98 seconds from my post and didn't read above about how I got to that number in the first place).

    I'm quite certain you didn't read the entire post because I did account for zanshin, save TP. Ikishoten does nothing for a 5 hit build but can help a 6 hit build because 15 Tp can make the difference for a 6 hit but not a 5 hit. The only way you can disprove that is to calculate the chance that you have a Store TP attack and an ikishoten attack round at the same exact set of rounds is signficant.

    For Save TP and Meditate: unless Save TP lowers your hit by a full attack round by the first WS, a true 5 hit build will not be reduced by a hit. As for Meditate, my explanation is listed under "Accounting for other variables" which is bolded. Each tick of Meditate that you get in your normal Store TP set will have no apparent advantage of a regain form of TP. Why is this? It's because the WS set starts us off at 17 and the extra fractions of TP comes from out TP set (you do this by having slightly more than 20 TP each hit). Therefore, if you needed to wait for an extra tick to WS in your normal Store TP gear, you will likley need to wait the extra tick in your Store TP + Regain TP set.

    Dasva: Your vision of calculating is exactly what I did, please review it one more time. And if you think it wasn't, please demonstrate how this is so.

  13. #13
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    Curious, how would this apply to stick and board type setups? Paladin, blu...using a shield for some reason...,Bst.

    Rng and cor? could you fluidly calculate how many tics your going to be getting in a 4 hit? or 5? and go from there. Undurstandably RNG now has double shot, and they both have Snapshot, but that's definetly not zanhasso, double/triple attack, etc.

    I guess you'd have to "assume" that they're spaming the button to ensure they fire at the first avaliable oppurtunity...

  14. #14
    Ridill
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    Most isn't good enough. What I meant was account for each instance by percentage.

    A single zanshin may not effect your going from 5 to 4. However it may with your regain earring. Timing is crucial and important. And again there is combining save tp and meditate with it.

    Well that just needs 20 save tp then. Which iirc is how much that new job ability gives. Misers roll also can grant that or more and atmacite gives 20 as well. No true technically since your ws gets a little less you might need more like 21 or 23 if and only if you have no other source of increased tp gain other than normal from normal hits and your set didn't give you overflow. Which given all these save tp 20s there are and meditate and ikotensen not to mention gear values not being exactly what you might want them chances are you will have some overflow.

    My vision was actually calculations. Exactly how long in each of those circumstances it would take to get to 100%. With regain earring how much store tp you could take out and still take as long. Actually calculated out. For example you say 5 tics for 18 second ws round. So that's 5 less tp needed in those 4 rallys as you put it. Since I don't have how much you were getting in tp set before I'll have to kinda guess it was something along the lines of at least 20.8 since you mentioned 17 from ws. Which would mean you had 88 store tp in your tp set including traits/buffs/merits etc. With 5 regain tics you'd only need 19.5 per hit so 76 store tp. This means the earring in fact took the place of 12 store tp instead of the 10 you put.

    Now do that for all of them. And upon looking closer I see problems with the rest. How do you get 18 seconds for 4 attack rounds of 3.6 seconds each? Simple math puts that at 14.4 and I seriously doubt your ws dealy adds 3.6 seconds. On top of that the rounds. 1 DA basically takes it from 4 rounds to 100% to 3. 2 would take it from 4 to 2. So 2 double attack should be a little over half the time as no double attacks. Also 3 double attack rounds would in fact do nothing since the first 2 would get you to 100% so you'd never get ot the 3rd attack round so kinda moot point even factoring that in.

    Then theres the odds of each instance to find the sorta average amount of store tp it saves you. But here's the problem. The double attack is random so how much it is worth is random. So you'd have to make your Xhit build based on the most limiting one. Which then ends up making you over tp in the others which you could factor in for other stuff but it gets horrendously complicated

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keichan View Post
    The entire front part of the post explains that 3 ticks of regain is reasonable for most of the attack rallies that you will make. And the way I did it was exactly how you asked me to explained it (I'd calculated how much regain in a particular time frame including haste hasso and gear), and then, I took instance of DA and factored that. That is how I go to to conclusion that it is reasonable to consider 3 ticks of regain - which accounts for 2 DA attack rounds per rally maximum (which equates to about 6 Store TP). And that above shows that it is NOT random. (I'd like to politely point out that you pasted 10.98 seconds from my post and didn't read above about how I got to that number in the first place).

    I'm quite certain you didn't read the entire post because I did account for zanshin, save TP. Ikishoten does nothing for a 5 hit build but can help a 6 hit build because 15 Tp can make the difference for a 6 hit but not a 5 hit. The only way you can disprove that is to calculate the chance that you have a Store TP attack and an ikishoten attack round at the same exact set of rounds is signficant.

    For Save TP and Meditate: unless Save TP lowers your hit by a full attack round by the first WS, a true 5 hit build will not be reduced by a hit. As for Meditate, my explanation is listed under "Accounting for other variables" which is bolded. Each tick of Meditate that you get in your normal Store TP set will have no apparent advantage of a regain form of TP. Why is this? It's because the WS set starts us off at 17 and the extra fractions of TP comes from out TP set (you do this by having slightly more than 20 TP each hit). Therefore, if you needed to wait for an extra tick to WS in your normal Store TP gear, you will likley need to wait the extra tick in your Store TP + Regain TP set.

    Dasva: Your vision of calculating is exactly what I did, please review it one more time. And if you think it wasn't, please demonstrate how this is so.
    Ikishoten is not +15TP its +15TP*sTP which with additional hit is far more than 40TP needed to lower 5hit to 3hit*.
    DA has priority over Hassozanshin (just pure fact since you wrote you dont know this)

    *3hit as 2rounds after WS. One normal + one with hassozanshin proc for 3 total hits and ikishoten bonus.

  16. #16
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    I guess you'd have to "assume" that they're spaming the button to ensure they fire at the first avaliable oppurtunity...
    I was under the assumption that spamming netted the "You must wait longer to perform this action." Which actually delays you a second further? A person would have to time every shot to be shooting as fast as possible?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atoreis View Post
    Ikishoten is not +15TP its +15TP*sTP which with additional hit is far more than 40TP needed to lower 5hit to 3hit*.
    DA has priority over Hassozanshin (just pure fact since you wrote you dont know this)

    *3hit as 2rounds after WS. One normal + one with hassozanshin proc for 3 total hits and ikishoten bonus.

    ^ This.

    Keishan is questioning our math and doesn't understand how one of the fundamental SAM traits works.


    A single Zanhasso proc nets me 69.8 tp in one round.

    His entire post is to justify using a Juogi+1 but the only time its better then Unkai+1 is on mobs where Att,Acc don't matter and Hasso isn't being used. If att/acc don't matter on a mob you can safely full time Hasso so his entire post has no value.

    Edit: For an Amano user 4/5 iki merits would make more sense. Which would result in 64.1tp per Zanhasso round.

  18. #18
    Ridill
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    Well his post also kinda assumes not in abyssea or voidwatch and no cor... and who really cares about a build that much outside of those areas? What for when you are doing trials or something?

  19. #19
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    Keep calm and use Centaurus earring.

  20. #20
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    If based on a %, it is not so random.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taint View Post
    ^ This.

    Keishan is questioning our math and doesn't understand how one of the fundamental SAM traits works.


    A single Zanhasso proc nets me 69.8 tp in one round.

    His entire post is to justify using a Juogi+1 but the only time its better then Unkai+1 is on mobs where Att,Acc don't matter and Hasso isn't being used. If att/acc don't matter on a mob you can safely full time Hasso so his entire post has no value.

    Edit: For an Amano user 4/5 iki merits would make more sense. Which would result in 64.1tp per Zanhasso round.
    First off, I believe I am quite polite about this discussion. And I will continue being so because I want to find answers. We all want answers and the only way that we will find them is if we can discuss these factors. Some of your advice on how to better calculate this is insightful and I will continue to work calculation because it will be better used to categorize "Regain". Maybe not more as just as a moonshade earring type question, but more as a Regain trait in general. To describe what I'm exactly trying to explain is this:

    Is it possible for someone to perform a Weaponskill within 3 seconds? (It is possible with Sekkanoki, but generally these are factors don't even need Store TP. Even if you consider Mala on the first hit, there has to be a delay from your WS animation and the time for you to swing. Also, this is accounting for 2% of all your total attacks. But even in these instances, in the most basic of forms, you will at least get 1 TP from this.

    As time increases however, two things happen. First, is attack rallies occur in a discontinuous factor. Second, is that the time in which these attack rallies occur, regain ticks also in a discontinuous way. I agree that there must be more math to be done with this (my calculations have flaws and I agree), and I don't mind doing it, but the approach has to be correct, which is why this needs to be discussed.

    As you increase time, the "likeliness" of WS starts out flat line (0 chance for it to happen) for the first few seconds. This is because it is just impossible to WS due to WS animation as well as the time it takes for you to swing your weapon for the first time. This is the first tick and will always happen when Store TP occurs. (Sekkanoki doesn't count because you don't need Store TP right away)

    1 Hit round to WS round. This flat line starts to increase slightly. This accounts for a Quad attack on the rally immediatly after the WS. The likliness of this occuring is 2%. However, by the time you finish your 2nd WS round, how many ticks of regain will you have made? In my above crude calculations, this is about 2 but this value can vary based on information that any of you have about WS delay.

    2 Hit Round to WS. Then this is the part where we all agree that the math gets tricky. Now we need to account for Zanhasso and Double attack rates to determine this and I did do a calculation above about the likelihoods of attacking at least twice in 4 hits, which turns out incorrect because it ACTUALLY the likelihood of Double attacking once, and then double attacking the second time right away. It will look something like this:
    Double Attack - Double Attack
    Zanhasso - Single Attack (Or Vice Versa)
    By this time, you would have traversed 1 WS animation, and 2 attack rounds to get to 100 TP. How much time is this? Above, I stated that it was 10.x seconds because I don't have a clear WS time to be accurate. However, you can note that this still takes at least 2 rallies to perform including WS time which is sufficent to say is at least 2 ticks of regain and maybe 3.

    3 Rounds to WS
    At this point, the "liklehood" of WS in increasing dramatically. This is at the point where you will be able to WS after just 1 Double Attack anywhere in the first 3 hits.

    4 Rounds to WS
    When you reach 4 rounds of WS, your chance of reaching 100% TP reaches 100%.

    (And of course, if you miss at any time for any of these rallies, it bumps it up higher a tier)

    However, as you increase time, the amount of TP you gain from Regain increases as well in the opposite ends of the spectrum.

    What I'm trying to say is that where you "calculate" the amount of Store TP you have is based on where on this spectrum you want to be in.

    Spectrums
    All Encompassing Spectrum
    1. Taint has expressed his concerns about Quad attack affecting his Store TP build, and if he was really concerned about the 2% (which might be lower than 2%-- Does DA override Quad?). On top of the fact that to hit all 4 hits in order at 95% accuracy is (is it .95^4 = 81%) (It seems a bit low, someone please check)?
    If you were 2-4 Store TP from a good build (not talking about only SAM here) is it worth it to consider this as "Store TP +2-4" at least?

    2. Now continuing on, you'll notice that as time increases, more options appear to get you to arrive at 100% TP. Zanhasso and two double attack rallies in a row will get you here. What percentage is this? Is it reasonable to include? That's your decision (and the calculation I will have to do), if it is, based on delay, it is equivalent to Store TP +4-6 at least.

    3. When you arrive towards at 3 rallies, you are fast approaching 100% chance of reaching a WS. At this point though, you would have gained enough Regain to be equivalent to Store TP 6-8.

    4. When you arrive towards 4 rallies, your chance of hitting 100% TP is pretty much guaranteed unless you missed a hit. This is equivalent to Store TP 8-10. It is not wise to consider it as Store TP this high because chances of at least one of the three situations is a quite high figure.

    Where you want to be on this spectrum is the amount of Store TP you will consider when calculating your x-hit build. If you're Taint, this would be 2 Store TP because if you wanted to include quad attacks to make sure you don't miss the WS after this event. If you want to account for at least 1 Double attack and Zanshin round (or two double), you will consider this to be 2-4 TP and so on.
    ----
    So onwards with this discussion. 64.1TP per Zanhasso round will still leave you with Delay of WS + 1 Hit + Zanhasso round which would still be sufficient for at least 2 ticks of regain to calculate it as a total as "Store TP+4". This means, with your overflow of TP anyway from this round, your choice of Regain Earring wouldn't have been affected anyway.

    The goal of this thread is to categorize Regain as some sort of equivalent Store TP that is reliable and although Full gear comparisons may be the underlying goal, is not the target of this thread. Once again, I'm sure that someone will find it useful even if it accounts for 2-4 Store TP somewhere else in someone's set.

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