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  1. #1
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    Meteor

    In my opinion, Meteor is one of the coolest concepts they've added to the game in a while. How useful it is in the end is going to depend heavily on how well players are able to utilize it in actual content. Yugl and I, along with Mischief, Prothescar, and Phaffi (with Kurohoshi as well), Maurauc, and a JP taru named Chere, did some testing over a pretty long period of time. It seems to work approximately like this:

    * Spell Base Damage = MAB/MDB*floor(Int + Elemental Magic Skill/6)*3.5 :: closer if you use (3+510/1024) instead of 3

    This equation can be up to 6 base damage off. We are very much unsure why, and get damage numbers that should literally be impossible for magic damage as we know it. For instance, Laev + BLM trait + Brew (1100 MAB) yields values ending in 2. Shouldn't be possible.

    * This Spell Cannot Resist. We cast it a lot. Not a single thing that could be called a Resist.

    * This spell really is non-elemental. Pluto's and the Dark Affinity damage+ Magian stave both did nothing for it.

    * Multiple casters contribute damage proportional to their position in the casting order (when their spell completes):
    First Caster ::
    Second Caster ::
    Third Caster ::
    Fourth Caster ::
    Fifth Caster ::
    Sixth Caster :: Leader

    Leader:
    * Leader, the last caster to complete their spell, gets their damage displayed in their log and has the largest impact on the damage of the spell. See below for more information.
    * All of the enmity from the spell's damage is assigned to the leader.
    * If the leader interrupts their casting before the spell resolves, it will not do any damage and everyone else will lose MP. It's unclear if this is a glitch or something they intend to fix.

    * Casting:
    * One person starts casting the spell, but the spell will not resolve until all people in the party have stopped casting it. This means there is no rush to cast and it is totally viable to use a Meteor Order to put your heavy-hitting BLMs at the back. You watch the guy in front of you to go in to the casting animation or show up in the log, and then you start casting.
    * Only one party of Black Mages in the alliance can cast this spell at any given time. Other parties attempting to cast it (regardless of the number of Black Mages contributing to the one in progress) will be reset.

    * AoE damage:
    BGwiki and FFXIclopedia have multiple targets damage adjustment going from 1 -> .85 -> .8 -> .75 -> .7 -> .65 -> etc.
    Meteor seems to go 1 -> .8 -> .75 -> .7 -> .65 -> .6 -> etc. It is unclear whether this is unique or an error in the lore.

    * Damage from multiple casters:
    This appears to scale based on the number of people taking part, the order they cast in, and the damage they would do to a single target (including MAB, Laev Bonus, etc.). There are two methods that I thought of to test this:
    1) Use a party of N players with variable damage and rotate through them. This gives us an NxN square matrix that we can solve for coefficients.
    2) Use a party of N players with equivalent damage to determine a total multiplier, then have one of them use a brew and cast in a different spot each time.
    The first option is obviously easier to coordinate, so that's the one we attempted.

    For two people, the results were:
    First caster - 1.25
    Second caster - 15/16
    This had two sets of data behind it with fairly tight fits. It is at the bottom if you want it.

    For five people, the results were:
    First Caster - 0.75
    Second Caster - 1
    Third Caster - 1.5
    Fourth Caster - 3
    Fifth Caster - 6.5 (Leader)
    Spoiler: show
    0.7174
    0.9250
    1.3876
    2.9648
    6.9304

    Both sets of numbers fit pretty well with the result, including the sixth case that wasn't included in the analysis. Obviously the fit model is more accurate to the data that I have, but I don't feel the precision of my data warrants a departure from pretty numbers.

    For six people, the results were:
    First Caster - 0.5
    Second Caster - 1
    Third Caster - 1.5
    Fourth Caster - 4
    Fifth Caster - 6
    Sixth Caster - 6.75 (Leader)
    Spoiler: show
    2.2279
    0.6485
    -0.4213
    3.9400
    5.9408
    6.7498

    These results don't look right at all. You can get an impression that some kind of similar decrease is occurring, but every low-weight value is quite suspect in my opinion. Also, it doesn't fit the excluded seventh trial very well.

    I don't know how reliable this method is with the sample difference that we used, but I suspect the answer may be "not very." Method 2 may be required, but SE may also adjust this spell 10 times in the next week.

    Here are the multiple caster data, if anyone wants to look at them. The rest of the data is in an excel sheet. Feel free to PM me if you want it.

    Random Testimonials:
    * With a group of good six BLMs, I would be unsurprised if you could nuke for over 50,000 damage on normal monsters outside Abyssea. We hit over 80k against a Marid in Abyssea with 5/6 Laevs but otherwise sub-optimal gear and with some of us lacking Atma.
    * I'll just point this out again. It can't resist, there's no dINT, and the damage is non-elemental. The only terms that affect it for monsters (that we know of) are MDB and MDT. If a normal monster would take 50k damage from your group, Botulus would take 40k damage. Every. Time.

  2. #2
    TSwiftie
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    Meteor sounds interesting. I know you said it can't resist... but is it possible the spell can resist for a particular player's input into the total damage?

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    Yugl was nuking worms for full damage with 0 skill every time. We tested for like 8 hours and never saw a half damage nuke. I think it just can't resist.

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    Thanks for the equation Byrth, trying to figure out gear sets for it atm. From what I'm seeing, things like:
    Anhur Robe beats Goetia Coat +2 for Meteor
    Goetia Mantle beats Searing Cape for Meteor

    Gear Sets for this are gonna look weird as shit

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    Yugl was nuking worms for full damage with 0 skill every time. We tested for like 8 hours and never saw a half damage nuke. I think it just can't resist.
    Wouldn't that just be the effects of elemental seal? (combined with the fact that it's non-elemental, so mobs that always half resist + certain elements can't do that to this)

    Edit: Or wait, never mind, you don't need ES on the test server.

    I wonder if it's just that no mob has a "non-elemental" resistance stat.

    I wonder if "magic evasion" is actually coded as a bonus to the 8 normal resistances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    * Spell Base Damage = MAB/MDB*floor(Int + Elemental Magic Skill/6)*3.5 :: closer if you use (3+510/1024) instead of 3

    This equation can be up to 6 base damage off. We are very much unsure why, and get damage numbers that should literally be impossible for magic damage as we know it. For instance, Laev + BLM trait + Brew (1100 MAB) yields values ending in 2. Shouldn't be possible.
    Is this how to read the above formula?
    1. n = INT + Elemental Skill / 6
    2. n = Floor n
    3. n = n * MAB / MDB
    4. n = Floor n
    5. n = n * 3.5
    6. answer = Floor n

    If so I don't see why there's any problem if the result value ends in a 2 with 1000 MAB?
    I'm guessing I'm not reading it correctly though?

    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    * AoE damage:
    BGwiki and FFXIclopedia have multiple targets damage adjustment going from 1 -> .85 -> .8 -> .75 -> .7 -> .65 -> etc.
    Meteor seems to go 1 -> .8 -> .75 -> .7 -> .65 -> .6 -> etc. It is unclear whether this is unique or an error in the lore.
    "1 -> .8 -> .75 -> .7 -> .65 -> .6 -> etc" is actually what both wiki say for calculating magic damage, it's just worded in a way that is easy to misread.
    Meteor AoE reduction isn't calculated differently to regular spells.

    Hpemde double magic damage taken affects Meteor damage.
    Shinryu's wings folded in stance affects Meteor damage too, but his SDT for Dark element has no effect, as expected.

    Update:
    BLM99, naked, with 0 Elemental Magic Skill, 114 INT, 40 MAB...
    Meteor hitting 1 target = 553 damage
    Meteor hitting 2 targets = 441 damage

    Working in reverse:
    553 / 3.5 = 158 ... 158 / 1.4 = 112.85
    441 / 3.5 = 126 ... 126 / 1.4 = 90 ... 90 / 0.8 = 112.5

    So if each 1 INT adds 1 to base damage, then Meteor is making use of 113 out of my 114 INT...
    113 * 1.4 = 158.2 ... 158 * 3.5 = 553 damage to 1 target
    113 * 0.8 = 90.4 ... 90 * 1.4 = 126 ... 126 * 3.5 = 441 damage to 2 targets

  7. #7
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    I have a lot of data in an xls that I can send you when I get home. Bottom line is that Yugl and I spent a lot of time nuking things and came up with an equation that was close all the time (brew or not), but seems to be like +/- 3 base damage off.

    Also, we're pretty sure the second multiple isn't exactly 3.5. it's like 3.485somethingsomething.

  8. #8
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    Meteor tests:
    INT:999
    MAB:1120 (Base + Brew + 40 Trait + 50 Ultimate + 30 Gear)
    Elemental Skill: 6 Skill

    Target: Clinoid
    Target MDB: 112

    Result: 26232 damage

    I don't have access to prior data, but the result is weird considering the current equation. Clinoid MDB determined via QD tests. Check the MDB thread and the link has a folder with Abyssea-La Theine NMs. The normal damage via QD is 459 damage (150 MAB; 306 base). The damage done, via QD, was 409 damage. This suggests 112 MDB. Thus, the test should use (1120/112 = 10 MAB/MDB).

    Theoretically, this gives the straight "multiplied" value since you end up with (10)*(999+1).

    Edit: Could be MDT, if ~25% MDT though. Need to find a monster with MDB, but no MDT; preferably 120MDB or less. Can BLM hit 300 MAB? Is there a way to receive every atma?

  9. #9
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    New tests for meteor.

    Test 1:

    INT=100
    No elemental magic
    MAB = 140 (Base)

    Target MDB=140

    DMG: 348
    Spoiler: show



    Test 2:

    INT=999
    Elemental Magic = 6
    MAB = 1120 (Base)

    Target MDB=112

    DMG: 34976

    Spoiler: show

  10. #10
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    New tests for meteor.

    INT=100
    No elemental magic
    MAB = 140 (Base)

    Target MDB=140

    DMG: 348
    Spoiler: show



    The rest of these tests use the same INT/MAB and MDB

    INT=999
    No elemental magic
    MAB = 1120

    Target MDB=112

    Spoiler: show



    Elemental Magic = 6

    Spoiler: show


    Elemental Magic = 11

    Spoiler: show


    Elemental Magic = 15

    Spoiler: show

  11. #11
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    New and more focused tests
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/79tvj5mpx19qp4m/1rBmEIpzKk

    I continued the method above using

    INT=999
    MAB = 1120

    Target MDB=112 (Coastal Colibri)

    The benefit of this is that the (MAB/MDB) modifier becomes a straight 10.

    Findings
    - There are "tiers" for Elemental Magic's Effect when using Brew (Inconsistent tiers)
    ** Tiers found thus far: 4, 8, 14, 20, 26, 30, 36, 44, 46, and 53 Elemental Magic Skill
    - Each tier increases the damage by 32 from the previous skill tier
    ** Increase in damage is consistent at least until 424 (The damage from no elemental magic to 424 elemental magic is a multiple of 32)
    - To notice the 32DMG increase, you need to use brew (Otherwise, the 32 DMG becomes floored decimal value)
    - The 32 DMG increase is the same regardless of MAB; this suggest that MAB does not multiply over the Elemental Magic section
    - MAB's effect isn't consistent since doubling the MAB increase damage from 992 to 1987 damage
    ** Note that the image says 240 MAB, but the correct value is 280

  12. #12
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    New and more focused tests
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/79tvj5mpx19qp4m/1rBmEIpzKk

    I continued the method above using

    INT=999
    MAB = 1120

    Target MDB=112 (Coastal Colibri)

    The benefit of this is that the (MAB/MDB) modifier becomes a straight 10.

    Findings
    - There are "tiers" for Elemental Magic's Effect when using Brew (Inconsistent tiers)
    ** Tiers found thus far: 4, 8, 14, 20, 26, 30, 36, 43, 46, and 52 Elemental Magic Skill
    - Each tier increases the damage by 32 from the previous skill tier
    ** Increase in damage is consistent at least until 424 (The damage from no elemental magic to 424 elemental magic is a multiple of 32)
    - To notice the 32DMG increase, you need to use brew (Otherwise, the 32 DMG becomes floored decimal value)
    - The 32 DMG increase is the same regardless of MAB
    - MAB's effect isn't consistent since doubling the MAB increase damage from 992 to 1987 damage
    ** Note that the image says 240 MAB, but the correct value is 280

    Edit: If someone could test double recovery status (No MAB) damage, that would help.

  13. #13
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    It seems weird that they would have changed the formula, but that's SE for ya!

    Okay, so the 32 damage increase is not a function of MAB but it is somehow enhances by a Brew. The other option is that it's a function of INT? That's about the only other thing enhanced by a brew that might make a difference, eh?

  14. #14
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    I don't think the brew enhances the 32 damage; just that you can only see the 32 via brew.

    ex: 342.32 v 34232 DMG; the former wouldn't show the damage.

    Unless that's what you meant; I'm tired lol.

    Edit: An example of the 32DMG tiers

    If going from 4 to 8 skill

    4 Skill DMG: X
    8 Skill DMG: X+32

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    Yes, but if the 32 damage is separate from MAB then why does it only show up when you brew?

    Ignore truncation for a second and lets say you cast Fire V on SCH/WHM with no MAB gear and it should do 3082.2 damage, but it only does 3082 damage because of flooring. Then you Brew and it should do 30822 damage (from +900 MAB, effectively x10 damage). You can see one more decimal place because the entire term was multiplied by MAB. If this +32 damage isn't affected by MAB, then why can we see it when we brew?

    Also, Brew is only damage x10. How could it unmask a 32 damage change?

  16. #16
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    I see what you mean. Good point.

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    I'd propose something like Divine Emblem:
    https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Divine_Emblem

    Except maybe something like:
    (D + floor(Skill*K)/100)*MAB

  18. #18
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    Brew only gives 900 to attributes if not using cruor buffs, right? I could try that and see if the INT is affecting the damage (Hurray for Elvaan!). Maybe not now though because testing takes forever and tired as hell.

  19. #19
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    Well, unless they have really changed it then INT will still affect the damage. I'd do it with 0 skill again.

  20. #20
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    I meant to check whether the INT is making the 32 INT appear. That's the only constant throughout these the tests where we see the 32 appear.

    Edit: Actually, that Divine Emblem link is clicking lol. That's quite possibly what is going on though the obscure tiers is SE's way of torturing players.