Scion FR-S, Toyota GT 86, Subaru BRZ

[ringthree]

The Supra was a lot of horsepower with none of it going to the wheel

I think you may have read too many forums. The Supra was easily able to get the power down, it was just difficult to get below the 10's because of the trans (which was an amazing Getrag, just not designed for drag) and most owners (misguided) love of huge turbos. This kind of misnomer is just based on the late 90's notion that all that mattered was drag times. The Supra was never designed for that.

[Seanr]

I think you may have read too many forums. The Supra was easily able to get the power down, it was just difficult to get below the 10's because of the trans (which was an amazing Getrag, just not designed for drag) and most owners (misguided) love of huge turbos. This kind of misnomer is just based on the late 90's notion that all that mattered was drag times. The Supra was never designed for that.

Yup idiot street racers, combined with F&F ~_~

The Supra was a fine car

[Churchill]

I drive a circuit car, what the shit do I care about drag times

[Mansin]

It weighs next to nothing. Its 2.6k and change and it's designed to be a short course car that shines in handling using the Cayman as the benchmark. Considering the regulations requiring safety equipment making the cars heavier, this thing is going to open the door hopefully for more competitive entry level true sports cars. Its really exciting.

Sounds like a boring s2000 to me, if they want this thing to shine they need to cut the "jack of all trades" thing and make a car that means business. I admire their attempt, but I was really hoping to one day feel like buying a car that wasn't made in the 90s or early 2000s.

I understand the safety and emissions requirements are keeping cars heavier, but that doesn't mean they have to be slower too. Adding a small td04 to this car would make it much more attractive if the selling point of this car is supposed to be the performance.

[jmc]

Sounds like a boring s2000 to me, if they want this thing to shine they need to cut the "jack of all trades" thing and make a car that means business. I admire their attempt, but I was really hoping to one day feel like buying a car that wasn't made in the 90s or early 2000s.

I understand the safety and emissions requirements are keeping cars heavier, but that doesn't mean they have to be slower too. Adding a small td04 to this car would make it much more attractive if the selling point of this car is supposed to be the performance.

Not to mention the shit tune subaru puts on their sport models to pass emissions.

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[*Shinzon*]

Sounds like a boring s2000 to me, if they want this thing to shine they need to cut the "jack of all trades" thing and make a car that means business. I admire their attempt, but I was really hoping to one day feel like buying a car that wasn't made in the 90s or early 2000s.

I understand the safety and emissions requirements are keeping cars heavier, but that doesn't mean they have to be slower too. Adding a small td04 to this car would make it much more attractive if the selling point of this car is supposed to be the performance.

I'm confused. The car is not about anything but pure performance. Its a car designed to be cheap, and shine on a race track. The car can't support a bigger engine or even a turbo because it sits too far back and too low to optimize the center of gravity. There just isn't any space. The car is actually smaller than a Honda Civic. If this thing actually ends up being priced around 25k, its going to sell well and if it really does handle anything like a Cayman may become to track toy of choice for anyone who seriously goes. I just fail to see why people keep knocking and making it out to be something its not.

[Weederr33]

I'm confused. The car is not about anything but pure performance. Its a car designed to be cheap, and shine on a race track. The car can't support a bigger engine or even a turbo because it sits too far back and too low to optimize the center of gravity. There just isn't any space. The car is actually smaller than a Honda Civic. If this thing actually ends up being priced around 25k, its going to sell well and if it really does handle anything like a Cayman may become to track toy of choice for anyone who seriously goes. I just fail to see why people keep knocking and making it out to be something its not.

YES! Exactly! I don't get why everyone wants this to be the next Supra or WRX. I'd love to drive something that hugs corners without much understeer instead of race people from red light to red light.

[Amastacia]

Sounds like a boring s2000 to me, if they want this thing to shine they need to cut the "jack of all trades" thing and make a car that means business. I admire their attempt, but I was really hoping to one day feel like buying a car that wasn't made in the 90s or early 2000s.

I understand the safety and emissions requirements are keeping cars heavier, but that doesn't mean they have to be slower too. Adding a small td04 to this car would make it much more attractive if the selling point of this car is supposed to be the performance.

Adding a TD04 would make it faster, but it would also kill the throttle response. The car is less about going as fast as humanly possible, and more about having as much fun as humanly possible while going respectably fast. There are a lot of people to whom that is anathema, and the simple answer is that they are not the market for said car, and should please stick to their WRXs, Evos, Genesis Coupes, and whatnot.

I will give you that it's both heavier and slower than an S2000, but comparing ANYTHING to the S2000 is slightly unfair, as it's one of the singularly best examples of engineering excellence ever put onto the road in street legal form. It was Honda at its absolute best before the need to shift volume and appeal to the broadest audience neutered all the fun out of the brand. A combination of all the engineering expertise they have building some of the best engines ever put in any car, plus a hell of a little chassis to make the most of it.

Toyota and Subaru wanted to build a hardtop coupe with similar driving character to a Miata, and by all indications, they've largely succeeded. And I applaud them for it, given the ridiculous obsession with 0-60 and quarter mile times, rather than FPG (fun per gallon).

Then again, the cost of entry for a FR-S/BRZ is also over $10k lower (allowing for inflation) compared to when the S2000 first came out.

Not to mention the shit tune subaru puts on their sport models to pass emissions.

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No arguing that, but what you should say is "the shit tune Subaru puts on their turbo cars in an effort to pass US emissions with a 20 year old engine and lower-cost parts as compared to the JP spec".

The 2008-2009 model year had a habit of blowing itself up due to weak piston ringlands on the cast pistons, combined with a shitty tune that was more worried about being street legal than optimized for power/economy.

But hey, even my Mazda has a needlessly conservative tune, and it's because carmakers have to assume their buyers are pants-on-head retards who are going to put absolute garbage gas into their cars, barely maintain them, and beat the living piss out of them.

Luckily, there are numerous options from open source tuning via Tactrix cable to Cobb's AccessPort, to aftermarket ECUs or piggybacks to solve the problem, assuming of course you're not a moron and are willing to take care of your car.

Jus' sayin'....

I'm confused. The car is not about anything but pure performance. Its a car designed to be cheap, and shine on a race track. The car can't support a bigger engine or even a turbo because it sits too far back and too low to optimize the center of gravity. There just isn't any space. The car is actually smaller than a Honda Civic. If this thing actually ends up being priced around 25k, its going to sell well and if it really does handle anything like a Cayman may become to track toy of choice for anyone who seriously goes. I just fail to see why people keep knocking and making it out to be something its not.

It could, and eventually will support a turbo, just not in the usual EJ25 configuration. Legacy-style mounting of the turbo (adjacent to the exhaust manifold) and a FMIC would work fine. They might not rush to do so, both in the effort to preserve the mission/goal of the car, and because air-to-air FMICs tend to be tricky to mount without compromising crash safety.

But you're right, the car was built for a purpose, and a lot of people are asking it to be something it was never meant to be. My understanding is that Scion and Subaru each have a sales target of under 5,000 units a year, which means they understand the car has a niche, and is not going to be a massive volume seller. But it will inject some interest and spark into both brands, and there are people out there who will "get it" and have the time of their life driving a car that may not have the lowest 0-60 or trap times, but be predisposed to plastering shiteating grins on drivers' faces.

[Therin]

Not impressed by that video. The driver is good, of course, but he can probably make any car drift like that in the rain and by abusing the e-brake.

This car had potential but it's pretty disappointing.

[Seanr]

I reeeaaally hope They DO have a driving event so people can stop Armchair Racing... but people will find a reason to bitch and moan

[Amastacia]

http://www.insideline.com/scion/fr-s...dont-know.html

Some of the stuff in that article in particular is very reassuring.

It's not going to be the right car for everyone, but if I was in the market for a 2nd car right now, it would be the shortlist.

[Dantrag]

I'm confused. The car is not about anything but pure performance. Its a car designed to be cheap, and shine on a race track. The car can't support a bigger engine or even a turbo because it sits too far back and too low to optimize the center of gravity. There just isn't any space. The car is actually smaller than a Honda Civic. If this thing actually ends up being priced around 25k, its going to sell well and if it really does handle anything like a Cayman may become to track toy of choice for anyone who seriously goes. I just fail to see why people keep knocking and making it out to be something its not.

Pretty good reference for size of this thing. It's fucking tiny and I love it.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...2&d=1313689955

Not impressed by that video. The driver is good, of course, but he can probably make any car drift like that in the rain and by abusing the e-brake.

This car had potential but it's pretty disappointing.

Man it's been awhile, but as in most things, flat out fail. Thing is a light weight track star. It's not about power it's about handling and spirited driving. It's not about 500hp or anything like that. Think of it more as a Lotus Elice than a Mustang GT.

[Lucavi]

And the Elice is badass (especially in person), so thumbs up to this car.

[Dantrag]

Oh, and it's affordable. Oh and weights something like 2650-2700lbs.

[Omniyoji]

...Elice...

Made me think of electronic lice. It's Elise.

Also didn't know the car was that tiny. Very intriguing. Pretty cool they're not going the "big car" route. What is it with people's fascination to big cars ?_?

[Dantrag]

Made me think of electronic lice. It's Elise.

Also didn't know the car was that tiny. Very intriguing. Pretty cool they're not going the "big car" route. What is it with people's fascination to big cars ?_?

Damn, I knew I spelled it wrong but didn't feel like looking it up lol. Dunno, but the thing is tiny. And that's part of the charm.

[Seanr]

I didn't know it was thaaaat tiny... I still want to look into though, would be nice if they put a tc in there for comparison as well... (yea yea i know)

[Dantrag]

tC:

Length 174.0 in (4,420 mm)
Width 70.7 in (1,796 mm)
Height 55.7 in (1,415 mm)

Mustang GT:

Length 187.6 in (4,770 mm)
Width 74 in (1,900 mm)
Height 54.5 in (1,380 mm)

So the TC is 1.2inchest taller than the Mustang.

I'm having trouble finding the specs for the size of the FR-S at this time Dx

[Diamicles]

I think the BRZ will be a smash over here, especially since from what I've heard that it will be produced in low numbers similar to the Impreza STi. Would love to drive one of these since I've always valued superior handling in the twisties over flat out speed. I think it's a very stylish car as well without being too gaudy. Very much a head turner.

[*Shinzon*]

There's Solid Evidence a Turbo Is Coming
Tada-san tells us the FR-S's Aisin-built six-speed manual has headroom to handle more torque, but he won't reveal how much. Still, his conspicuous laugh tells us there's enough to accommodate turbocharging.

Also, for a car with a flat engine the FR-S's hood line is awfully high. Forward visibility isn't as good as we imagined it would be in a car with this layout. But this might be a worthwhile compromise.

A quick look under the hood reveals several inches between the top of the intake manifold and the underside of the hood — probably enough to package an intercooler. It looks to us like there's enough real estate for a WRX-style intercooler mount with the intake manifold feeding from the rear instead of from the front as it does in normally aspirated trim.

Apparently I'm wrong, but not entirely. InsideLine's report goes against what other journalists have been saying about the layout. Many feel the engine bay wouldn't support the WRX setup for the intercooler, but insideline says it would. At any rate the turbo engine most likely wont be revealed until the WRX development process is complete. There are rumors that the BRZ may actually become the rally car rather than the WRX. They are developing a new turbo engine for compliance with WRC. So we'll see.