Legion - info and strategies

**NynJa** · 2012-08-25 19:57

Pchan: dDEX is capped
Q: how much agi does ADL have?
Pchan: i dont know

50% of the time...all the time

**diasetsu** · 2012-08-25 20:59

Originally Posted by mdkuser

yeah 205 DEX and impetus up i was hardly reaching 35% critical hit rate .

Capped dDEX, 10% merit, 5% equip and impetus should be at least 45%.

Out of curiosity, what equipment and whatnot are you using that your DEX is so high?

**Helel** · 2012-08-25 21:31

Originally Posted by Byrthnoth

Were you out of alliance?

No, I was in the alliance at the time. Maybe he just decided to randomly attack me first and then happened to switch when RDM nuked.

**pchan** · 2012-08-26 02:15

Originally Posted by Martel

Well, I just finished combining 8 Xarc run parses(42 ADL fights).

I had 18.46% crit. 5%(base)+5%(merits)+8% gear(claymore+RancorMantle)=18%
Both DRKs had in the 23~24% crit range. 5%+5%+14%(99Ragnarok)=24%

My wyvern had 4.76%.

This is the most telling factor actually. If there was a direct crit- it'd definitely push him below 5%.

It looks to me like ADL either has HUGE AGI. Or a direct penalty to dDEX itself. Because everyone is matching up to what their rates should be with floored dDEX.(Note: No bloodrage or other crit modifying factors were present.)

Nah, any DD 99 with any gear is going to have a positive ddex on it. We are benefiting from ddex and it's obvious from comparing parses with or without ddex so it's proving that AGI is not high. We are also benefiting from impetus by comparing parses with and without it.

From various parses we did, and comparing the different monks' crit%, as they have different gear, we also saw that different monk had different crits, when maxing dex with stuff like boost dex. This is another proof that its agi is not high because some monk benefit from it, even though the gear crit rate stays the same. I think you need ~ 160-70 dex to cap ddex on it, so that makes it 110-120 AGI.

Originally Posted by diasetsu

Out of curiosity, what equipment and whatnot are you using that your DEX is so high?

Nothing special ? Mithra +25 from boost dex, double marches (+10), and specific dex gear like byakko, toci, ocelomeh+1

**mdkuser** · 2012-08-26 04:45

Originally Posted by diasetsu

Out of curiosity, what equipment and whatnot are you using that your DEX is so high?

mithra mnk/war + 12 merits is @ 111 base.
boost-dex (+25)
ocelomeh headpiece +1 (+13)
toci's harness (+13)
mustela gloves (+6)
demonry core (+4)
hollow earring (+2)
rajas (+5)
byakko's haidate (+15)
double marches (+10)

total 204.

**diasetsu** · 2012-08-26 14:48

So I assume this gear setup was just for testing purposes as I expect you'd use Tantra+2 otherwise during Impetus. How many ADLs did you parse as 35% crit? More importantly I don't recall atm, but does Kparser show how many times ADL or other mobs parry? Does enemy parry count as a miss in Kparser or is it not included in hits/misses? Parry would reset Impetus and hidden parries(your counters that are parried wouldn't show in log) would also reset Impetus. If you are in front of ADL, this would greatly reduce your expected crit from Impetus. Additionally we never did truly figure out the effects of multiple attacks per round on Impetus's bonus. The easiest way to look for crit- is to remove merits, floor dDex and wear no crit gear. If ADL does have some sort of crit-, then you'd probably end up floored at 1%.

**pchan** · 2012-08-26 18:08

Not sure why you think the issue is from impetus. Gimp monks have much less cirt% than the mnks trying for ddex, which shows that ddex is fully working. (Granted there is no way to get a large enough sample size nut still... that's 90 dex per adl per monk). If ddex is fully working which it seems it is then you are looking at ~30% baste critical hit rate (merit;ddex;5% base;rancor) which would make impetus only 5% .. doesn't make sense.

**diasetsu** · 2012-08-26 18:37

It could very easily be from Impetus. We still do not know how more than 1 attack per round effects Impetus's additional crit. The reason I was asking if Parry shows on Kparser is because if ADL has say a 10% parry rate, and is facing you 1/2 the time, then 5% of your attacks would be parried. Thus hit rate would effectively be dropped to 90.25%. If always facing you, hit rate would be dropped to 85.5%. So does Kparser include parry and show hit rate at 90.25%, or does it disregard them and show hit rate at 95%? The reason I ask is because "attack is parried" doesn't read as hit or miss, so I have no idea how it is handled in a parse. @90.25% hit rate with base 30% crit, Impetus adds 8.59%, while @85.5% it adds just over 5%. Both those numbers aren't accounting for the 2+ hit/rnd possible factor if any.

It is much easier to prove/disprove a -crit trait for ADL by flooring dDEX and not using Impetus. Either you get 10% crit with merits(no special trait, would most likely mean overestimating Impetus crit), or less than 10% crit with merits(verifying there is indeed a trait).

**Martel** · 2012-08-26 19:53

Originally Posted by diasetsu

It could very easily be from Impetus. We still do not know how more than 1 attack per round effects Impetus's additional crit. The reason I was asking if Parry shows on Kparser is because if ADL has say a 10% parry rate, and is facing you 1/2 the time, then 5% of your attacks would be parried. Thus hit rate would effectively be dropped to 90.25%. If always facing you, hit rate would be dropped to 85.5%. So does Kparser include parry and show hit rate at 90.25%, or does it disregard them and show hit rate at 95%? The reason I ask is because "attack is parried" doesn't read as hit or miss, so I have no idea how it is handled in a parse. @90.25% hit rate with base 30% crit, Impetus adds 8.59%, while @85.5% it adds just over 5%. Both those numbers aren't accounting for the 2+ hit/rnd possible factor if any.

If you look in the melee data below, you'll see M.HR % and M.ACC %.

Code:

Player            Melee Dmg  Abs'd.Dmg   Net Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss    M.HR %   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi  M+0.Avg  M-0.Avg
Martel               423012          0    423012   20.31 %    1180/60   95.16 %   95.16 %     0/794   335.64   362.73

These stand for Melee Hit Rate, and Melee accuracy. M.ACC% is based entirely off hit/miss. Thus it's an effective measure of your actual accuracy. I think M.HR% is supposed to take into account things like parries, counters, and shadows. Thus showing how many hits you actually land, as opposed to just your acc.

But... after looking at my parse data, I'm not sure its tracking parries. In those 1k hits there, I was parried 13 times. Not much, but it's there. Yet my M.HR and M.ACC are identical, at 96.16%. Still, you can find how many times you were parried by checking the raw data, and doing a search.

That or we can ask motenten about the parry concern. Personally, I'd be a bit interested in being able to track certain mob defenses. Mob parry/counter rate, for example.

Originally Posted by diasetsu

It is much easier to prove/disprove a -crit trait for ADL by flooring dDEX and not using Impetus. Either you get 10% crit with merits(no special trait, would most likely mean overestimating Impetus crit), or less than 10% crit with merits(verifying there is indeed a trait).

I'd thought my wyvern's crit rate would have settled this already, but I guess not. I mean, 5% crit rate. Unless someone seriously thinks a wyvern is gonna have positive dDEX vs ADL, then there can't be a crit- trait present without the wyvern's crit rate being pushed well below the base 5%.

**diasetsu** · 2012-08-26 20:13

Interesting that you were only parried about 1% of the time, I would have imagined his parry rate would be higher. I thought also that hit rate and melee accuracy represented different things as well, but I always see them listed as the same. Was hoping someone could clarify, and I am sure Motenten will when he notices.

As far as your wyvern, I personally believe there is no crit- trait. I think impetus is much less than what pchan and mdk are estimating in this case. I was just suggesting that it would be very easy to concretely prove one way or the other using super low dex as we neither know what your wyvern's dex actually is, nor do we know ADL's actual AGI.

**Martel** · 2012-08-26 21:25

I probably would have been parried more, but ADL shifts from DD to DD so fast, I've no idea how much of the time he was actually facing me.

**InsaniacTHF** · 2012-08-26 22:40

Wouldn't the average potency of Impetus be much lower than 15% in a 45 second fight? How many punches do you even throw over the course of an ADL zerg?

**Warusha** · 2012-08-28 15:05

Back on the topic of legion; How've groups been dealing with Botulus Astral Flow? Last attempt it was going down fine until the 2 parties without PD were killed and the DDs no longer had support/healing. We tried stunning the avatars individually, but they were untargettable.

**Radec** · 2012-08-28 15:50

Haven't seen it mentioned, likely since most groups ignore them, but all elementals have specific temp item drops.

Earth - Mana Powder
Water - Cleric's Drink
Wind - Lucid Wings I
Fire - Healing Powder
Ice - Fool's Powder
Thunder - Fanatic's Powder
Dark - Mana Mist
Light - Healing Mist

Combo-elementals drop both items matching, ie a Baelfyr(Fire/Light) gives both Healing Powder and Healing Mist.

Also, if you've been using an elemental as an aspir battery, be sure to kill it before waves change - other mobs will link with the elemental.

**Prothescar** · 2012-08-28 16:22

definitely something with the Wave 2 harpy. 2/5 runs we've had it start in the PDT stance with low evasion, a few seconds in it blew the 2hr cloud and switched to no PDT high evasion. 1/5 it was the reverse of that. The last 2/5 were normal.

**Tarage** · 2012-08-29 07:20

I corrected misinformation on the BG Wiki. Trophies only drop from the FIRST wave on T1s, not every wave.

On a side note, my linkshell beat Mul today. We weren't able to kill the Botulus, but it was a great accomplishment considering we started as a PUG a month ago.

**Septimus** · 2012-08-29 17:38

Originally Posted by Radec

Haven't seen it mentioned, likely since most groups ignore them, but all elementals have specific temp item drops.

Earth - Mana Powder
Water - Cleric's Drink
Wind - Lucid Wings I
Fire - Healing Powder
Ice - Fool's Powder
Thunder - Fanatic's Powder
Dark - Mana Mist
Light - Healing Mist

Combo-elementals drop both items matching, ie a Baelfyr(Fire/Light) gives both Healing Powder and Healing Mist.

Also, if you've been using an elemental as an aspir battery, be sure to kill it before waves change - other mobs will link with the elemental.

The fact that the temp items are specific is very useful information.

**Prothescar** · 2012-08-30 05:12

Compiled a strategy for Mul based on Byrth and Ejiin's information over on FFXIAH and here, but mostly just the few posts in Upheaval thread. Seem about right?

Spoiler: show

Exempted Shock Squall since 9/10 times the SMNs in my LS resist the fuck out of it and it gets in the way of the SCH's stuns. Would also have the RDM using Dia III over the COR's Dia II if the RDM is there over a third SCH.

**Mafai** · 2012-08-30 08:40

Originally Posted by Prothescar

Compiled a strategy for Mul based on Byrth and Ejiin's information over on FFXIAH and here, but mostly just the few posts in Upheaval thread. Seem about right?

Spoiler: show

Exempted Shock Squall since 9/10 times the SMNs in my LS resist the fuck out of it and it gets in the way of the SCH's stuns. Would also have the RDM using Dia III over the COR's Dia II if the RDM is there over a third SCH.

Many groups are doing it with less SMN and more SCHs and stun locking hard.

**EjinCaitsith** · 2012-08-30 09:19

Originally Posted by Prothescar

Compiled a strategy for Mul based on Byrth and Ejiin's information over on FFXIAH and here, but mostly just the few posts in Upheaval thread. Seem about right?

Spoiler: show

Exempted Shock Squall since 9/10 times the SMNs in my LS resist the fuck out of it and it gets in the way of the SCH's stuns. Would also have the RDM using Dia III over the COR's Dia II if the RDM is there over a third SCH.

Looks good. Just a few minor details:

*Should invite the 3rd SCH or RDM to heal during mobs you aren't PDing for easier cures.
*Can invite PLD for Wave1 Naraka for Holy Circle.
*Save at least 1 WAR's MS for Rex if you plan on doing it. (We use our other MS on wave2 Ironclad)

Originally Posted by Mafai

Many groups are doing it with less SMN and more SCHs and stun locking hard.

Which mobs would you drop PD on?

I know it's "possible" to kill all of these mobs w/o PD(we've even killed Gallu a few times w/o it), but in an event where every second counts, I think having PD up on the NMs listed, so DDs don't have to worry about PDT sets and mages cures, is a giant advantage when compared to a none/less PD method.

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