NCsoft files lawsuit to thwart TERA launch

[Artemicon]

Here is the thread on this topic over at TERA Online. http://www.tera-online.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=25473

I read the two links in the second post but since I'm at work I can't really go much further. Someone else should read into this and post more, but from what I gathered from the posts its not much to worry about. Who knows I guess?

[FriskUni]

Here is the thread on this topic over at TERA Online. http://www.tera-online.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=25473

I read the two links in the second post but since I'm at work I can't really go much further. Someone else should read into this and post more, but from what I gathered from the posts its not much to worry about. Who knows I guess?

basically EME aren't saying shit, people mass panicing, NCsoft hate, PDF posted of lawsuit, that's bout it

[Rulke]

worst comes to worst, we'll be playing with frogster :3

any delay gonna hurt EME though, people already tired of waiting due to the push backs, more push backs would probably hurt it a lot, as BGT said, sick of waiting etc

Tbh this was my thought last night before I went to sleep. With the no IP blocking people who really want to play Tera in English can most likely just purchase the Frogster version and play on EU servers.

This being said, the delay- any delay imo for NA Tera will destroy any chance it has of becoming successful. The loyal fan base, being what it is, is mostly at the end of its rope on waiting for this game. We love it but come on, there is only so much effort that can be given to something unless one is a complete fanatic. And fanatics do not a player base make. With potential big games like GW2 and D3 around the corner any further delays in Tera are just disastrous.

Not going to fret about or try to guess outcomes of legal mumbo jumbo. Just going to sit here and do my ish until I see a post otherwise saying the game is delayed. Will rage then and move on I guess.

[Iku]

I read the PDF. Hate it or whatever but NCSoft has a strong case against Bluehole. Starting from page 16 if you are interested to read.

But then again, it is similar to Heroes of Newerth, Dota 2 and League of Legends shit. Bluehole may get away in US.

[madpersian]

I've worked on cases similar to this as a paralegal. So take this with a grain of salt. The suit was filed early January, the Defendants will have to respond with an Answer in a month or 45 days (the PDF I saw didn't include the suit cover which includes that). They'll also schedule a pre-trial hearing, typically within two months of the answer.

NCSoft will move for a preliminary injunction against TERA being released in the US. There'll be a hearing on that and if the judge determines that NCSoft has a reasonable chance of proving their trade secrets theft complaint, the judge will grant the injunction. NCSoft could ask for a expedited hearing on their preliminary injunction because TERA is so close to release.

The main issue for the defendants will be the trade secrets complaint because that will stop them from releasing the game. The other complaints will just lead to damages.

As always, there is a great chance that the case settles, as these suits are not payed with contingency. You are paying hourly and getting billed about $400-500/hour for associate work and $800-900 for partner work. Another AmLaw 100 firm will likely be hired by the defendants billing at about the same rate (but most likely paid by an insurance company). That complaint alone probably cost more than $50,000.

I've seen two cases like this to completion. On one of them, there were some damages, but the worst part was the defendant had to turn over their computers to a computer forensics firm who proceeded to delete everything the jury had determined was a trade secret.

Another case settled for all the partner profits of the firm defendant for the years since the trade secrets were stolen, but nothing else because within the 5 years the information was "generally known."

Edit: The worst part for the defendant is that the plaintiffs only have to convince the jury that it is more likely than not that their complaints are true. So the threshold to win is 51%.

[Rulke]

A co-worker and I were talking more about this just a bit ago. Wondering if indeed it will be settled for just damages. NC Soft might just want a big paycheck out of it all.

[avelle]

A co-worker and I were talking more about this just a bit ago. Wondering if indeed it will be settled for just damages. NC Soft might just want a big paycheck out of it all.

That makes sense, considering they can't make a decent game themselves!

Spoiler: show

[madpersian]

I am curious whether NCSoft is more like Microsoft, suing to extract a licensing fee, or more like Apple, suing to stop their "enemy" completely.

[Ambrosia]

I've worked on cases similar to this as a paralegal. So take this with a grain of salt. The suit was filed early January, the Defendants will have to respond with an Answer in a month or 45 days (the PDF I saw didn't include the suit cover which includes that). They'll also schedule a pre-trial hearing, typically within two months of the answer.

NCSoft will move for a preliminary injunction against TERA being released in the US. There'll be a hearing on that and if the judge determines that NCSoft has a reasonable chance of proving their trade secrets theft complaint, the judge will grant the injunction. NCSoft could ask for a expedited hearing on their preliminary injunction because TERA is so close to release.

The main issue for the defendants will be the trade secrets complaint because that will stop them from releasing the game. The other complaints will just lead to damages.

As always, there is a great chance that the case settles, as these suits are not payed with contingency. You are paying hourly and getting billed about $400-500/hour for associate work and $800-900 for partner work. Another AmLaw 100 firm will likely be hired by the defendants billing at about the same rate (but most likely paid by an insurance company). That complaint alone probably cost more than $50,000.

I've seen two cases like this to completion. On one of them, there were some damages, but the worst part was the defendant had to turn over their computers to a computer forensics firm who proceeded to delete everything the jury had determined was a trade secret.

Another case settled for all the partner profits of the firm defendant for the years since the trade secrets were stolen, but nothing else because within the 5 years the information was "generally known."

Edit: The worst part for the defendant is that the plaintiffs only have to convince the jury that it is more likely than not that their complaints are true. So the threshold to win is 51%.

@Omeed:


Thanks for giving some possible scenarios that may potentially happen. Wow, yeah for the most part it isn't looking good at the moment. I had a gut feeling that one of the very first things NCSoft may do is try to place a temporary injunction (while everything else is being processed) to hurt EME and Blue Hole. Seems they went with the big boys for this.


@Iku:


I skimmed over the .pdf file but I'll try to read it in its entirety today.


@BG Temp:


Yeah I know exactly how you feel. I wanted to sink my teeth into a fun fantasy MMORPG but it has not happened lately. SWTOR was fun for 2 months as a single player game, I don't think I will be re-subscribing. Blade & Soul and Archeage and Phantasy Star Online 2 probably won't be coming to U.S. shores till 4th quarter 2013 at the earliest. I will be playing Diablo 3 but most likely in spurts off and on. That just leaves Guild Wars 2.

*Looks over her shoulder and sees Version 2.0 over the horizon*

Yeah like I was saying the only thing left is Guild Wars 2. So there is quite a big gap. I mean correct me if I am wrong but as far as P2P AAA MMORPG and/or really hyped up P2P MMORPG (with a fantasy setting of course) I really don't see anything else releasing in 2012-2013?

Orz™

[Rulke]

^Most we can do is just wait and see. Stranger stuff has happened in courts before so I think its much too prematuer to count a loss/victory either way. Likewise we can always play Tera EU from NA anyway. We can all moan about ping together ^^;

[avelle]

I'm down for playing on EU servers temporarily, NCSoft can suck it.

[Kaylia]

Loli can be found here:


http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/555/elins.png

That picture alone doesn't mean much (every korean mmo have the same damn race), but it's still pretty clear from the document that they were "heavily influenced" by the concept they developped while working on Lineage 3.

How much did they leave with? Is it okay to reuse the concept or idea that you created for someone else? It's a grey area, but what they did is still a dick move.

[Elcura]

Loli's are serious business. Though seriously, there's a loli race in basically every asian MMO. There's commonalities, but I think generally it would be hard to prove because artists always "take" inspiration from other places.

[madpersian]

The suit at least an answers a question if you believe the complaint. I'd wondered how a random company could put out a game that looked so good and be able to make the servers work for an action mmo.

I do hope they get fucked if they did steal it. I've always wanted games that'd actually try to plant the character's feet on the ground at the right angle. Now I find out they may have just stollen that tech. Sad.

[FriskUni]

We can all moan about ping together ^^;

can't be worse than KR ping :3

thought lets say EME were forced to delete TERA, couldn't they just launch frogster's client?

[samalis]

frogster is using EME's version of TERA, wouldn't that mean EU wouldn't launch TERA either?

Also question, so they stole from NCsoft and made TERA with the stolen data and then NCsoft sued them and won in Korea? Also why did they still that shit?

[madpersian]

@samalis: They'd have to bring suit in the EU to get an injunction on that launch. Maybe we'll see it soon. I assume they stole it because using stolen code and graphics would save them an incredible amount of money. Also, showing some mostly finished code when you are looking for financing increases your ability to get that financing and on better terms. Since it's much less risky for the investor when a lot of the work is already done (assuming they don't know the code is stolen).

If they really did steal the code I imagine they were just very sure they wouldn't be caught. If the allegations are true it was a brazen theft of trade secrets. Maybe they never got any lessons in humility.

can't be worse than KR ping :3

thought lets say EME were forced to delete TERA, couldn't they just launch frogster's client?

No, not really, the different clients and server programs are just modifications of the same allegedly stolen code. If NCSoft gets an injunction and then they just release the frostier client in the US, and NCSoft complains to the court, there could be criminal implications for disobeying a court order.

[Destinye]

Yep, so all in all, it's going to be an interesting month.

[Ambrosia]

Yeah according to this:


http://www.tera-online.com/forums/sh...d.php?p=166246


"TERA in Europe will follow the same update schedule and contain the same content as the North American version of the game, with translations appropriate to each country and region."


So it seems besides language everything else will be almost identical. They may or may not go after Frogster in the near future, they may not have to if they win here in the United States (or at the very least the process with Frogster will be much quicker). Notice the 65 pages attached to the thread. Yeah a good portion of that is the outcry from the community with past experiences with Frogster. You can find a near infinite amount of information as to why this company is less than ideal but I think you get the idea. En Masse Entertainment and Bluehole Studios only has TERA Online under its belt if I am not mistaken. Bluehole may have chosen Frogster and En Masse because they were the lowest bidder or if not the lowest, then cheap enough to get the game out with some experience in the industry.


@Omeed:


Yeah you may have a point. One thing that always bothered me was the lack of advertisements, use of various media etc. To be honest I am not sure how much money both companies have and if they can afford the same caliber of lawyers like NCSoft obviously can and create their own "Dream Team." I don't know if En Masse or more specifically Bluehole Studios knew that they were going to get sued at some point and they hunkered down by not spending on any extra resources or areas they thought was "unnecessary." It may be a tin foil hat idea but even in the official forums as well as here on BG people have in the past year questioned from time to time why they never went all out telling folks about their game.

[bluefan]

I read about this at MMORPG. Because there is always a hilarious post on topics like these. One moron claimed NCSoft was moving forward with this because they want to make GW2s launch the only important MMO launch in that quarter....hahahahahaha, oh man.