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  1. #2381
    A. Body
    Join Date
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    Sir Taint
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    Gilgamesh
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    Cerberus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ophannus View Post
    How do you guys deal with Frog Leaders? We try to melee zerg it but around half way through it hit one of our DRKs for like a 2.3k Aero IV with Shell5 up. >_>

    Also the Dracula Boss seems to rape us alot when we hit an unlucky floor 80. While zerging it, he'll do that charm move and within 2 seconds before we can sleep the charmed DD< the charmed DD has already smacked either me(The SCH) or the BLU for like 480-600 damage like 2-3x(Fucking embrava/ODD). When we got it down to 12% or so it started spamming the aoe Drain move and really drag the fight on forcing us to use some temps.

    Does the Mamool Ja Stealthlord 20/40/60 boss have some kind of PDT? DRKs who normally do 2.3-2.6k+ Resolutions were doing like 300-400 damage WS. Ukko's Fury was doing like 400 damage, the only thing that did normal damage were multi hit blu spells.

    Can't say I've ever had issues with a frog NMs, but with BB and an MDT set no spell should one shot you.

    For floor 80 use Fanatics. If you don't have Fanatics (troll NM at 20,60,80) then have your DRK stun, bash, stun any TP moves under 50%.

  2. #2382
    Sea Torques
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    Titan

    1f about a month ago
    Spoiler: show

  3. #2383
    Black Belt
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    Arthars Menethil
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    Chocobo
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    Odin

    Thats why drk n blu stun spam is priceless in nyzul

    If they still can stun shit, tell them lvl sch lol

    they r fired

  4. #2384
    Melee Summoner
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    Dec 2010
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    47
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    1
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    Leviathan

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandum View Post
    1f about a month ago
    Heh, but even after my missed stun and 5 deaths in the first two mins, pretty sure we still managed to eke out a win that run, somehow.

  5. #2385
    Relic Weapons
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    Feb 2009
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    346
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    FFXI Server
    Leviathan

    I dunno about you guys, but I prefer to kite my Ukon WARs on SCH.

  6. #2386
    BG Content
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    Jun 2007
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    Slycer Ilerion
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    Excalibur
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    Fenrir

    Quote Originally Posted by Dotsudoku View Post
    I'd ordinarily feel worse about beating a dead horse, but since it's someone else mentioning unmodified runs again, that's one almost clear with poor subjobs, gradually more expensive purchased items, and additional temporary items out of how many failed clears? It takes an extraordinary amount of masochism to see that as a glimmer of anything related to hope.

    Edit: Semi-related, but I'm pretty sure most groups experience an influx of diminutive jumps 95-100. You're forgetting that it'll be fairly common for you to do things like 95-97, 97-98, etc.
    It's me every time because everyone else in this thread uses tools to get to 100. This is part of the reason I keep posting. Anyone who still plays this game is masochistic, and perhaps my level of masochism is beyond most others', but I know I'll be excited when I finally do clear F100 and that's enough for me. People who are getting 100 with any sort of consistency are surely fine resting on their laurels as far as making minor tweaks to improve their odds, making 99% of this thread utterly useless posts saying things like "4/5 F100" or "91 95 97 99 fml." I have no feelings of self-righteousness here and I'm fine with everyone who uses tools, but basically you're all playing a different event than I am. I'd love to see useful strategies here for people who do not use 3rd party tools and I can tell you that your immediate dismissal of /THF for six flees over the run's duration without needing to pre-equip Powder for jobs that already have attack power that's far beyond the point of diminished returns on EP and DC mobs is ill-informed as I'm pretty confident that Flee is invaluable on lamp and spec floors when you're looking at walls instead of wireframes. Note that we did not all /THF, just three of us (enough to get a jump on spec enemy or lamp floors). Considering about 40% of the floors in Nyzul are more about movement than killing (more if you include large map floors) we felt that it was worthwhile. Based on the (not particularly easy or hard) floor layouts we got, it wasn't a total coincidence that the first time we tried this modification we reached F99.

  7. #2387

    As far as this thread being a waste of time since "everyone" else uses tools, I really can't help but think that its pretty obvious what the differences are between tool users and normal users, and what needs to be changed accordingly. You can't see through walls, you can't flee, and you don't have .dats. Thus, you'll need to carry around a dozen powder boots, restrict your members to jobs that can wear powder boots, use other mechanisms of natural movement speed such as gear, and have your DD's /thf for additional flees between swapping boots. Bard and Cor movement don't outweight the loss of a DD on kill all/leader/spec fam/boss floors due to the lost damage and the fact that their movement buffs are removed upon being hit by enemies. Use the peripheral edges of the screen to look for the edge of the door frame that is perpendicular to where you enter a "maze room" to see which way leads through the maze, and which way leads straight around. I'd say this pretty much sums up any vanilla-mode specific discussion of Nyzul. Everything else, such as which main jobs clear enemies most quickly, doubling up on temps, double embrava, if popping fanatics/2 houring on lesser boss floors to speed up the trip to 100 are worth it, etc. are all the same regardless of whether you use tools or not. Anything that makes you faster, is better.

    I have said it before and I will say it again, if beating Nyzul completely free of tools is what makes you and all of your static members happy--then by all means please proceed to do so, and congrats on whenever the floors and objectives tip in your favor as SE intended. I just think that after the first couple dozen posts where no one was fall-out-of-their-chair impressed with people's progress with vanilla mode, the fact that people still don't really care or troll you shouldn't be coming as any big shock.

  8. #2388
    Relic Horn
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    Leviathan

    Quote Originally Posted by Wardeniii View Post
    I just think that after the first couple dozen posts where no one was fall-out-of-their-chair impressed with people's progress with vanilla mode, the fact that people still don't really care or troll you shouldn't be coming as any big shock.
    Pretty much. We all know it's possible. The numbers have been run several times now. Continuing to advertise your failed attempts at trioing Tiamat with level sync on just incites reactions of, "Cool- we already knew you could do that, but congratulations on wasting your time."

  9. #2389
    BG Content
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    Slycer Ilerion
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    Excalibur
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    Fenrir

    To reverse your analogy, continuing to advertise your successes in bot-claiming Fafnir will also eventually become tiresome (not you specifically, but a number of posters in this thread). We're reading this thread from two different perspectives and we're both entitled to our opinions.

    I know people can get to 100 on a regular basis using third party tools, I'm fine with it, I don't have anything against it, and I'm not asking for pity. The point of my post on the previous page (#2374) was to point out the significantly increased benefit of using /THF without fillmode/clipper (or obviously movement speed modifiers) active, potentially helping anyone who may not be using third party tools, a console player for example, not to incite any inflammatory response or advertise my failures like that's something I'd be proud to do. Not a theoretical benefit, but a demonstrated one based on a run I had just completed. As I stated in the post, I wasn't sure if anyone cared, I was merely providing the info for reference in case someone did.

  10. #2390
    Pens win! Pens Win!!! PENS WIN!!!!!
    Join Date
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    It strikes me as odd that people say they want challenging content from SE but when they give it to them, they say eff it and use tools to lessen the challenge.

  11. #2391
    Ridill
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    Bahamut

    Well I think it has to do with being hard to beat if you suck but if you are on your game good chance to win kind of challenging. Not you will definitely lose if you don't use tons of temps double embrava burn back to back powder boots or don't have really good jumps and floors. On top of the normal skill, cordination, gear etc

  12. #2392

    Quote Originally Posted by Jornna View Post
    It strikes me as odd that people say they want challenging content from SE but when they give it to them, they say eff it and use tools to lessen the challenge.

    There's a difference, and I'll elaborate.

    Flee tools, cheating.

    SpellCast? Not cheating. /ma "Cure III" <t> is some bullshit. /ma Cure3 I don't see as cheating.

    The same goes for:

    LightLuggae
    Yarnball
    Statustimer
    Recast
    ChatMon
    Silence
    Logger
    Infobar
    Timestamp
    Windower-type macros/SC xmls

    None of that is cheating and shit that could be easily implemented into the game for a better playing experience. There's a difference between challenging and just moronic. SE chooses the later. They should take a page from Blizzard and implement user created ideas like they do with add-ons.

    And I, for one, will admit, I am completely handicapped on some of those. If SpellCast isn't working, I tend to not even want to play. I type a shitton of stuff.

  13. #2393
    Flowery Twats
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    With dasva. Yes, we want challenging content, however when it's the point where you actually need 3rd PT tools to succeed at the event (and even the use of every tool under the sun can still not even guarantee you access to the to floors), the balance is still off.
    They just can't seem to get the balance right, I reckon thats what pisses people off.

  14. #2394

    I could easily make the argument that the natural movement speed should be 50% faster and therefor flee tools aren't cheating.

    Making an arbitrary list where you decide what can and can't be implemented in the game and therefor deciding what is and isn't cheating is silly. It's all cheating, the second you log into this game with unofficial windower you are a fucking cheater and you are no better in any way than someone who runs at 800% or someone who only uses TPParty so they can skillchain better. It's the same goddamn thing.

  15. #2395
    Ridill
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    How is windower with nothing on it the same as hacking the game? And not in the cause SE says so logic. Real logic using real definitions of cheating

  16. #2396
    Relic Weapons
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    Real logic using real definitions of cheating
    Real definition of cheating: Using anything against SE's terms of service.

    As Rearden said, anything above official windower makes you a cheater, debating the highly subjective shades of grey doesn't change that in the slightest.

  17. #2397
    New Odin
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    Sparthia Abysseant
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    Lakshmi

    Does using Ventrilo or parsing count as cheating? Inquiring minds want to know.

  18. #2398
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyltia View Post
    Real definition of cheating: Using anything against SE's terms of service.
    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    And not in the cause SE says so logic.
    Try again please. Maybe using an idk a dictionary. Almost all pertinent definitions either explicitly state or imply gaining some sort of unfair advantage

  19. #2399

    Ventrilo is not. It's a stand alone program that doesn't work with FFXI.

    As for Churchill raining on parades, yea I get that "legally anything is cheating" and we're all dirty lying cheaters, but realistically -- On the user's end -- these things are very helpful and we'd all like to see a company that can work with what we find useful and helpful that are within the realm of not breaking the game. I'm not sure if Church is hating on all cheaters, or just generalizing, but he's in the same boat, so I am kinda confused.

    And while I am saying I really wish those things were implemented so no one here is cheating, I'm really looking for a company that works like Blizzard, but with FF style games. Same with 14, there's add-ons for it as well, but SE will probably never care.

    Small Edit: Also, movement speed should be upped, I agree, good sir. Again, many other games have different movement speeds sets. Mounts more than anything else, but what do we get? Chocobos that are a pain to "get" and Items that last 30seconds-1minute and a few spells/rolls/etc. Nothing that any individual can use at any time. It's frustrating. They wonder why people cheat, then they ban for cheating, then players get aggravated. It's a circle for them that they aren't learning from. And yes, I get bitching on some random playerbase forum isn't going to help, but bitching on their forums won't either.

  20. #2400
    Relic Weapons
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    Almost all pertinent definitions either explicitly state or imply gaining some sort of unfair advantage
    Are you implying that there's any UW functions that don't give you an unfair advantage compared to those that don't use it? Cause that's retarded.

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