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  1. #2401
    Old Merits
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    Sylph

    2007 called, they want their bullshit arguments back

  2. #2402
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyltia View Post
    Are you implying that there's any UW functions that don't give you an unfair advantage compared to those that don't use it? Cause that's retarded.
    No I was saying using completely vanilla windower. Ie pretty much exactly the same thing as SEs version.

  3. #2403
    Relic Weapons
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    The only thing that matters is that you're using a third-party program. It's non-negotiable, completely stark black and white. Anything else is just an attempt to justify your actions to yourself and/or others.

    Moral of the story: Don't be a bitch. Adults take responsibility for their actions.

  4. #2404
    I'm more gentle than I look.
    Mr. Feathers AKA Mr. Striations
    All hail Lord Yamcha

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  5. #2405
    HABS SUCK!!!!!
    Sepukku is my Hero
    Therrien's Cum Dumpster

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jornna View Post
    It strikes me as odd that people say they want challenging content from SE but when they give it to them, they say eff it and use tools to lessen the challenge.
    Luck isnt challenge.

    If it was 1-15 and every 3f was a boss you had to fight, and you couldnt skip floors...BAM challenge. 1-100 where you can skip anywhere from 2-9 floors every jump isnt a challenge.

  6. #2406

    I don't make the argument because I think you should burn in hell for seeing someones TP so you can skillchain or because your macros are triggered by one keystroke.

    You just simply can't say one thing is better or worse in the grand scheme of cheating. You say TP Party is super helpful and should be in the game, I say running 50% faster should be the default speed for everything.

    In terms of winning Nyzul, what is the single most powerful tool people use? And which of these tools did SE address first? Was it speed hacking? (Something they continually show they don't give a fuck about) Or was it Fillmode/.dat swaps?

    Why would the tool that doesn't help the most also be the 'worst' form of cheating?

  7. #2407

    Funny thing is, I didn't mention anything about Fillmode or Dat Swaps. I meant a lot of other things, and I wasn't even referencing Nyzul specifically. I meant basic game mechanics that are just annoying.


    As for your first sentence, I have no idea if /sarcasm or not. You run windower, you run plugins, so I am not sure why everyone else is evil but you're not.

  8. #2408

    You know it is possible to make an argument for the sake of the argument being right.

  9. #2409

    Fair enough, debate team go!

  10. #2410

    Quote Originally Posted by NynJa View Post
    Luck isnt challenge.

    If it was 1-15 and every 3f was a boss you had to fight, and you couldnt skip floors...BAM challenge. 1-100 where you can skip anywhere from 2-9 floors every jump isnt a challenge.
    Doesn't really counter his point because even if it was the situation you describe, history tells us the hardcore playerbase would still cheat.

    Though really, it's SE's fault for being a bunch of really lazy/few programmers/having bad PR. I can't think of any other big-name MMO where people would be discussing hacks and cheats on the big strategy/community sites and still have it not get patched in some way for months on end.

  11. #2411
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    I don't make the argument because I think you should burn in hell for seeing someones TP so you can skillchain or because your macros are triggered by one keystroke.

    You just simply can't say one thing is better or worse in the grand scheme of cheating. You say TP Party is super helpful and should be in the game, I say running 50% faster should be the default speed for everything.

    In terms of winning Nyzul, what is the single most powerful tool people use? And which of these tools did SE address first? Was it speed hacking? (Something they continually show they don't give a fuck about) Or was it Fillmode/.dat swaps?

    Why would the tool that doesn't help the most also be the 'worst' form of cheating?
    I say you can argue it. Is not the tool that lets you completely bypass ingame stops and features not more of an unfair advantage (though not necessarily more useful) then something that does nothing more than what people and/or in game hints already do and in the case of distance plugin a worse job at it?

    I say there is a large distinction between displaying things in a different format that you can already see and well seeing things you normally can't

    That being said your nyzle comment kinda brings it back to the point of "challenging" vs stupid. You can do almost anything in the game on console. The plugins most people use are more convience items but they can and have played just fine without them. Nyzle and dat swap + fillmode is not convience so much as a necessity. I mean for all his trying the one really masochistic group still hasn't won once. Most give up or move to using those tools by the first couple dozen losses that could only be prevented by cheating.

  12. #2412
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyltia View Post
    The only thing that matters is that you're using a third-party program. It's non-negotiable, completely stark black and white. Anything else is just an attempt to justify your actions to yourself and/or others.

    Moral of the story: Don't be a bitch. Adults take responsibility for their actions.
    That's your opinion based on 0 logic. Might as well say breaking any rule in anything is cheating. Actually you know what just by being on this forum assuming you use the information here you are most likely violating the the user agreement.

    Justify lol I use so much more so I don't know where you are coming from other than your high horse

  13. #2413
    HABS SUCK!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kincard View Post
    Doesn't really counter his point because even if it was the situation you describe, history tells us the hardcore playerbase would still cheat.

    Though really, it's SE's fault for being a bunch of really lazy/few programmers/having bad PR. I can't think of any other big-name MMO where people would be discussing hacks and cheats on the big strategy/community sites and still have it not get patched in some way for months on end.
    It would remove a good portion of the "luck" involved atleast, and that way mr "I play 100% vanilla on ps2 and cleared f100 once because we got 10 9 floor jumps in a row, so anyone can do it, stop cheating fags" wont have his stupid argument. There will obviously still be luck involved based on mob TP moves, floors incured etc etc, but you're not going to get fucked over because the random number generator felt like giving you shitty jumps the entire way through

  14. #2414
    Relic Weapons
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    Might as well say breaking any rule in anything is cheating.
    Breaking rules is cheating, end of story.

    Justify lol I use so much more so I don't know where you are coming from other than your high horse
    I think you misunderstand me; I use Windower, radar, the whole deal.. the difference is that I can acknowledge to myself that yes, I'm a cheater; I have no illusions about what I do in-game, and I certainly don't try to justify it by arguing that the rules are stupid, or that some rules are okay to break while others aren't. The simple fact of the matter is that you're playing SE's game, and SE makes the rules. It doesn't matter if you break those rules by a little or a lot (which is entirely subjective anyway.. one man's clipper is another man's tparty), you're still breaking them, which makes you a cheater whether you like it or not.

    There will be no need to debate this further.

  15. #2415
    Hydra
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limlight View Post
    2007 called, they want their bullshit arguments back
    Cowards are always scared.

  16. #2416
    HABS SUCK!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyltia View Post
    I think you misunderstand me; I use Windower, radar, the whole deal.. the difference is that I can acknowledge to myself that yes, I'm a cheater; I have no illusions about what I do in-game, and I certainly don't try to justify it by arguing that the rules are stupid, or that some rules are okay to break while others aren't. The simple fact of the matter is that you're playing SE's game, and SE makes the rules. It doesn't matter if you break those rules by a little or a lot (which is entirely subjective anyway.. one man's clipper is another man's tparty), you're still breaking them, which makes you a cheater whether you like it or not.

    There will be no need to debate this further.
    Once upon a time, SE said that PC versions werent allowed to be windowed...and then SE came out with their own windower

  17. #2417
    Nidhogg
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    Diabolos

    Just stick some rare gold chests that occasionally drop from mobs or NMs with 1-3 min time extensions in it. Problem solved.

  18. #2418
    Relic Horn
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    Leviathan

    Utilize the virtually undetectable tools available to windower users, problem solved.

  19. #2419
    Ridill
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    This thread is getting to be a worthless mess of trolling. I am beyond tired of seeing the same stupid arguments get thrown back and forth. This is not the topic to debate whether or not something is cheating and something else is not, this thread is for facts and strategies. Some of those strategies may contain third-party tool, but some of them will not. Not everyone is willing or able to use them, it is entirely possible for 6 people on PS2/360 to want to clear this content, it is not your place to judge them for it.

    Get back on topic, this is the last warning.

    -The Management.

  20. #2420
    Sea Torques
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    How do you deal with Groaty Custard? Absorb melee hits is just annoying.

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