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Thread: Tera: Cash Shop!?     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #21
    Sandworm Swallows
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meresgi View Post
    Not to mention if they keep the reward point thing, from the sounds of it we get points each month for paying our sub...and can use those points toward vanity items anyways? Why would I not be ok with being rewarded even more for paying to play the game? Shit, if Blizzard did this I would be fine with the cash mounts/pets.
    I didn't play Aion much, but I remember something similar being in that game and thought it was a good idea to keep people playing. Definitely okay with them doing that.

  2. #22
    The Defense is ready, Your Honor
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverBreeze View Post
    The easiest way to get extra money out of me is to sell cute things like outfits and glasses and emotes. I think I spent almost 40$ one month in Aion for dances and outfits ._.

    Some pretty hardcore knee jerking on the forums though, not sure why people are so offended by vanity items or the idea of a cash shop.
    Because it still reeks of "Korean MMO nickel and diming you to death for a grind-centric game", even though much of the worldwide market has begun to embrace the cash shop idea. I can certainly see people's aversion to cash shops. I remember how Salty I was a few years back when myself and some college buddies played Trickster Online regularly and would get roflstomped by people who blew 70 bucks to max out a character in a day.

    I'd imagine that a company, no matter how "Korean" it is, would realize that offering items that directly benefit the strength of a character through cash shops would spell the doom of the game in many areas. Judging by what they're offering via cash shop, I'd say they understand this. I'll gladly play if it stays for non-combat purposes, but I'll be gone faster than most anyone else here if it ever crosses over into paying for gear or abilities.

  3. #23
    Formerly BGTemp // TERA Fan
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    Points for monthly subs that can be used on vanty items is sweet. My wife's castanic needs some sexy glases :D

  4. #24
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    Can file me under the "not really affected/no fucks given" category; no matter how this turns out (i.e. they start adding beneficial items to the cash shop), I will in all likelihood continue to play the game simply because I've been too excited for TERA for too long to let something like this make me stop.

  5. #25
    Sea Torques
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    dont give a fuck camp, ima buy them glasses all day nomsayin

  6. #26
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  7. #27
    Mithra Ero-Sensei
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senji View Post

    quote for truth O_o

    (although for most, an elin would be there instead of a castanic) Ψ(`∀´)Ψ

  8. #28

    ^ current desktop

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senji View Post
    lol... perfect

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverBreeze View Post
    That's funny because people like me don't mind cash shops, and actually like being able to buy random shit for my character that doesn't have any affect on gameplay. So it makes people like me happy even though I subscribe to the game. However, if it ever came to the point where they started selling pay 2 win items, I would cancel my subscription immediately that day.

    The whole "we're losing subs so we're offering items that'll definitely piss our playerbase off" line of thinking doesn't make sense to me.

    As long as it's random fluff that doesn't influence the game and all it does it make you look "cool" then I don't see why any of it really matters. If you want it, get it, if you don't, don't. I for one, never liked mounts and understood the whole craze behind them and I rode around on my vendor bought mounts in WoW for the several years I played it, and rode my yellow chocobo every day in FFXI instead of going through the crap to make a green/red/blue one whatever.
    I'm the same as you, but I really never cared for even cosmetics. I don't mind the items being offered in Korea, but what I meant with my comment was that TERA will not have the powerhouse subscription numbers that the bigger MMOs have, so it's likely that as the subs go down, the amount of items offered in cash shops go up. No matter how you slice it, you can only buy so many glasses and rainbow colored horses until you realize you don't give a shit anymore. That's when they'll start going to the different items. Items that will start aiding new subs, and attract new players, ETC.

    Right now I don't give a shit. I'm still playing, but like everyone else, if it gets too far, I'll cancel in a heartbeat.

  11. #31
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rulke View Post
    I don't understand the rage with "optional" purchases that in no way give game benefits. The people who want that stuff will spend money, those that don't may as well just pretend that option isn't there anyway.
    this x1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000

  12. #32
    Mithra Ero-Sensei
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    Don't care really either way... although I always do wish to be able to trade something ingame for the items ! like maybe 1mil gold for $10 item etc

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulkeeva View Post
    Don't care really either way... although I always do wish to be able to trade something ingame for the items ! like maybe 1mil gold for $10 item etc
    They should quickly steal GW2's system where you purchase "gems" and then sell them to players or buy cash shop items. Make the chronoscrolls 150 gems or w/e.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulkeeva View Post
    Don't care really either way... although I always do wish to be able to trade something ingame for the items ! like maybe 1mil gold for $10 item etc
    Would be a decent thing to work into the time-card trading system to further discourage RMT.

  15. #35
    Mithra Ero-Sensei
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    well you can already do something like that in many other games "if you trust the other guy" enough, but would be nice to do.. as mentioned what GW2 is doing so its more.. "legit" per say

  16. #36
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    I'm going to break up this post into 2: Long post is long X:

    Part I: The Official Responses (so far)

    The original thread got locked and a new one was made by Minea. So far here are the official responses:

    On page 19 in the original thread:

    Minea: We will make the decision based on the needs of our audience and market. You can be sure we will carefully evaluate any system or item before we introduce them to North America.

    Me: That translates to me as PR talk: BHS will "most likely" implement this in the future for the NA/EU market.

    On page 32 in the original thread:

    Knoxxer: Guys you are getting worked up over another publisher's choice or decision. Blue Hole provides every publisher with a bunch of cool features or items and it is up to the publisher to decide how to utilize them.

    Right now our focus is on launching TERA successfully and whether you believe it or not we have yet to make any decisions around most of these type of items. We have talked about some of the premium items we are working on such as name or appearance changes but beyond that nothing is final.

    Me: Blue Hole is going "make" (not give) us this premium cash shop feature as an added "service." We have talked about some of the premium items we are working on such as name or appearance changes but beyond that [the name or appearance] is not final. But we will be implementing a cash shop on top of our P2P model.

    On page 36 in the original thread:

    Minea closes this thread and gives an official response in a new thread made by her.

    On page 1 in the new official thread:

    Minea: Since my response has been buried... I am reposting it here and we are going to close out the other threads. Feel free to reply below.

    "Guys you are getting worked up over another publisher's choice or decision. Blue Hole provides every publisher with a bunch of cool features or items and it is up to the publisher to decide how to utilize them.

    Right now our focus is on launching TERA successfully and whether you believe it or not we have yet to make any decisions around most of these type of items. We have talked about some of the premium items we are working on such as name or appearance changes but beyond that nothing is final."

    On page 4 in the new official thread:

    Knoxxer: I am pretty sure we know where all you guys stand on pay to win. We love the feedback and it will weigh heavily in our future decisions - but right now we just aren't making those decisions.

    MMO's are an ongoing service that need to adapt to the community it creates. TERA's community won't be fully realized until we launch in May. You can never say never when developing an MMO that goes for anything.

    Me: More PR talk. Except for the part that says "we just aren't making those decisions." Cash shops introduced as a service is in almost every scenario a slippery slope. They always "evolve" to something else as times passes. There are very very few exceptions to this. BHS can eventually make it from cosmetics to boosts to P2W items. It is definitely not outside the realm of possibility.

    On page 7 in the new official thread:

    Knoxxer: This idea actually has been the more popular idea around the office. We just want to get it right so we haven't made any final decisions. We got bigger fish to fry right now besides selling items - like launching a stable TERA service.

    His response to a poster who said:

    I would be surprised if they removed t-cats. Keeping t-cats as some variation of veteran rewards while tying it into the cash shop is a very, very smart idea. It would be a bad idea to not start out with subscription-only t-cats.

    On page 10 in the new official thread:

    Batgirl: Hey guys, I just want to re-iterate Knoxxer's points.
    At this time we don't have plans around these shops.
    Yes there are conversations that are ongoing here in the office.
    Things that are on our radar and we're evaluating but, again, we have other pressing issues to attend to at this time (like launch!).

    Batman: /facedesk

    As of 6 a.m. EST the thread is on page 33 with no further official responses about the cash shop. Sleepy time.

    Part II: Quote from Foxer

    Long enough post as it is but I agree pretty much with what you said. Most likely that is part of the reason they are introducing the cash shop due to loss in subscriptions. I'm still going to play: Collector's Edition (probably take it on a month by month basis) but if it turns into P2W or there is a mass exodus after the first 3 months or so (similar to Aion) then I'm gone as well.

  17. #37
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    Part II: New translation given about an hour ago


    http://translate.google.com/translat...dd.nhn&act=url


    Here are the 2 main reasons (explained in part III and Part IV) as to why I think they are adding the cash shop (vanity items for now: high chance of evolving this service to introduce other options) on top of their P2P model.


    Part III. Population issues


    Server Merge:

    BHS Korea: 37 -> 35 -> 15 -> 13 -> 6 (6 being theoretical)

    There are currently 13 servers in South Korea. From the folks I have asked mainly from BG (others outside of BG)who have played K-TERA up to level 58 (some with multiple 58's) I have been told that for the most part the majority (at least 2/3) of the servers are always or almost always green (translates to light population) while only roughly 1/3 of the population being labeled in yellow (translates to normal population). I think they also have the red icon signifying heavy or full population, but from the few charts I was able to gather from Inven, it would seem that is has been a long time since they have hit that high. A couple of folks have told me that some servers are so light that they can easily do another merge and cut it down to half (hence why I placed 6 as theoretical).


    NHN Japan: 10 -> 3 -> 2 (2 being actual)

    Japan only has had one server merge compared to BHS, but this one was rather major. The servers are able to handle I think upwards to close to 3000 players per server. They decided to reduce it to 3 to keep the player base at optimum levels for this reason. Unfortunately this has not helped. Even though the population stabilized at around 7500 after the merge, there has still been a considerable amount of decline from the last couple of months. Considering that the Japanese players do keep a statistical website that takes in Hourly... yes Hourly roll calls, I can safely say that they can drop the servers down to 2. 2 servers are clocking in at around 1550 players, while the 3rd is hovering around 950. For the first time in NHN TERA history, the Japanese population dipped below 4500 this week, during evening prime time playing hours.


    That leaves the remaining 2: Frogster and EME

    Frogster: /Facepalm

    Horrible company all around going from customer service to censorship/banning in the forums to all the way to the top. This will probably have a negative impact on the game in the long run if they don't change their business practices. When Scapes wrote in the old forums that Frogster was going to handle the EU side of things, 65 pages of rage ensued. So much was the backlash that Daniel Ulrich (Director of Product Management) extended an olive branch to quell the masses. We will see how it goes but I have no faith in them to be honest. Nothing more needs to be said here.


    EME: Good so far

    Half of EME is made up of former NCWest, while the other half come from numerous backgrounds. I may give them the benefit of the doubt since NCWest pretty much had their hands tied behind their backs, but NCWest didn't do anything to really improve their image as well. So far they have been doing a good job. We will have to see how the relationship between BHS and EME unfolds and also see how EME handles the game as well as complaints and constructive criticism from the player base.

    As you can see things are looking very grim for NHN. For BHS I would say they are borderline: from doing just O.K. and below average. If the new update does not considerably regain some of those lost subscriptions, chances are they will continue to add more options/items to the premium cash shop and be aggressive overall with the premium service.


    Part IV-A: P2P versus F2P versus Cash Shop (Vanity and Play to Win)


    I will try my best to simplify this, since my posts are very long and going into detail here would make it ginormous. The P2P model comes in 2 formats (generalizing here) and both have been in decline since 2005. A. $4.99-$10.99 P2P model: for all intent and purposes, this model is practically dead. Of the 40 or so that used this model, I only know of 4 that have released a game in the past 3 years. B. $12.99-$15.00 P2P model. This model has also been in serious decline. There have been around 60 or more MMORPG games that "used" to be in this range (Note: not all at the same time period).

    The majority however have fallen into the following categories A. Some have closed down. B. Some use a hybrid model that have premium monthly subscriptions but also a F2P model for those that don't want to pay a monthly fee. C. Have completely transferred over to the F2P model because the company cannot sustain their initial P2P venture. Roughly 75% of those that have followed the "strictly P2P" model have become extinct (or drastically changed their model). There are less than 30 MMORPG games that follow this model and more and more are transitioning to the F2P model.

    This model is becoming so unpopular that the only games operating under the strictly P2P model that have been released from 2010 until now are the following: Rift, SWTOR, Xyson, FFXIV (although everything is riding on Version 2.0 and Yioshida has said he is open to the F2P model in a recent interview) and I am sure I am missing one other game. So there are 5 in total. Besides combat (which I thoroughly enjoy) I really don't see a reason [besides money] why you would add a cash shop on top of a P2P model (which is rapidly becoming unpopular).


    Part IV-B: Theme park versus sandbox versus East and West versus the Code Word: TREND


    Long title. As we all know TERA is strictly a theme park MMORPG. The thing is that at the moment, there are over 550 MMORPG games and the vast majority fall under the fantasy role playing sub genre. For this game to stay P2P for a long time, it will need a good player base that sticks with the game. We all know that you don't need 12 million or 6 million or 3 million players to keep a business afloat. However, with that said, you do need a stable population that will not have a mass exodus after the first 3 months (something that plagues fantasy theme park MMORPG in recent years). The last time a P2P Korean game was "embraced" by the NA/EU market was "probably" Lineage II, and that game came out in 2004.

    I am not sure if there will be enough NA/EU players to stay for the long haul. We already know the die-hard fans will... but what about everyone else? There is nothing wrong with a niche game, but if it becomes too niche, it can and will become a problem from a business standpoint. MMORPG trends have shown that games nowadays become F2P at a much rapid rate. Compare games that came out in 1996-2004 versus 2004-2009 versus 2009-present. It used to take games a decade (or more to go F2P) then it went down to 5 years, then 4, then 3 and now some taking under 3 years to go F2P such as Aion (again talking strictly about the NA/EU market).

    On top of that recent upcoming fantasy based theme park games (some being very popular in Asia and/or NA/EU) have gone the F2P route or might. Phantasy Star Online 2 just announced this week from a media conference that it will be using the F2P model with a cash shop. In a recent interview Massively had with NCSoft they asked what payment model they were going to use [regarding Blade & Soul] (since Lineage II and Aion are F2P in North America). So far they have not finalized what business model they will follow which leaves it up in the air. Recent trends have shown that many companies cannot sustain a P2P model in the long term and are forced to become F2P or a hybrid model with a cash shop (usually starts with vanity items but has a high risk of eventually evolving into a P2W later down the road).


    Part V: My "member" is emotionally invested in this game and the flavor of the month issue.


    Tits. Yes we know. They make the World go round and round. The graphics are nice, but let's not kid ourselves here, a good portion of the guys here are in it for the tail. There is nothing wrong with a 1 track mind (I guess). Will there be a mass exodus of people after the 3 or 6 month mark, will combat be enough, or will the feeling of been-there-done-that surface? I really wanted to enjoy the storyline (the way it was told as well as how the lore was unfolded) and the voice acting. Unfortunately they have been subpar. They are not horrible, but they could of been done much better in greater detail. I was not expecting it to be at the level ala Shawshank Redemption, but I was expecting a little bit more than mediocre.

    The die-hard fans may come with the knee-jerk reaction of: who cares about the story anyway, EME never really advertised the game based on the story but (for the most part) based on the combat. Sure that is fine and dandy, but it would of been nice if the voiceovers and lore and quests were done better: it would of definitely of not hurt. Part of the problem I see in the official forum (White Knights) is that some folks are emotionally invested in the game: mainly because they want to catch the tail or because they have waited over 2 or 3 years for TERA and they absolutely abhor anyone that tries to rain in on their parade.


    *By the way, don't you guys just love how fast news/information travels exponentially faster in 2012 compared to let's say, 2002? Companies need to be extra careful (and quadruple check) what they say because if you don't... well then you get bloopers like the quote I have in my sig.*

  18. #38

    Yeah I have no issue with buying the CE, even if the game implodes in 3 months. For the price of a regular console game I know i'll get at least 2-3 months game play time, as opposed to 5-6hrs from another game for roughly the same price.

  19. #39
    Chram
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    with less tits.







    With being aware of players thoughts on P2W, I really cant imagine EME/Knoxxer rolling it through. More on this as a whole is riding on Tera than just Tera itself; a Korean game being westernized, Knoxxers/EME future career/projects, etc. They are really getting the benefit of the doubt here because of the massive abrupt scission from NCSoft/west. If they "force" players to drop this, that's it. Fool me once...



    Spoiler: show
    Cash shops are the future though.

  20. #40
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    You know regardless of everything that's been said in both these pages, your quote unfortunately holds more truth than anyone wants to believe.