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  1. #321
    Relic Horn
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    Like any old game, it worked because it took so freaking long to level that players were reluctant to move on to something else so they endured any system no matter how terrible. Now I'm not saying L2 or any old games were terrible, far from it, but the reality is those games worked due to the time they came out in relation to each other.

  2. #322
    Let's go Red Sox!
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    L2's PvP broke down like this:

    - Open factionless PvP. Fight anyone anytime for any reason. Shortly after launch they came out with systems where if you kill someone that doesn't want to fight you, your name turns red and you basically become a free target. As previously mentioned, they did a great job designing bosses and leveling grounds that couldn't support the total number of people, and therefore promoted great spontaneous PvP.

    - Castle Sieges. These were run on a schedule every other weekend. In order to participate, clans had to sign up ahead of time, and pick whether you wanted to assist the defense of the castle, or be an attacker. Owning castles gave big benefits, primarily additional revenue streams that were only available to castle owners. Because the benefits were so great, these sieges were often absurd in scale (200 vs 200 wasn't uncommon), and the wheels of clan and alliance politics were always turning. I know I say this a lot, but when a game forces no factions on the players, they will make their own more fluid factions.

    - Olympiad. Olympiad was a 1-on-1 arena for characters that had leveled two classes to 76, and completed a lengthy quest. At the end of every month, the player with the most points based on win/loss record for each class become a Hero for the next month. Hero characters got access to special buffs, their own hero chat channel, etc. Olympiad was a little broken, because there ended up being a lot of point trading when people in the same clan or ally got matched up.

    - Race track arena. This was just an open, anything goes area. There were no exp penalties for losing, and no benefits to winning. It was just a big practice area.

    - Fortresses. These were like mini-castle sieges that took place once a day or something like that. These came out around the time I stopped played, so I don't know a ton about them. I just know that, at least when they were introduced, people didn't really care about them.

    tl;dr - L2 has an open, factionless system that allowed for player politics and was designed around funneling players into areas where PvP would blow up spontaneously.

    As Alderaan mentioned, a lot of the reason it worked was because leveling was such a horrifically long process. For most of my playing time, there weren't max level characters. The game didn't have a ton of PvE content, and what it had wasn't on par with the PvE experiences available in other games. Essentially, the game only worked because of how good the PvP was, and the motivation to be better at PvP made the grind bearable at the time. Would that game work if it was released today? Absolutely not. Would a lot of what it did well work if plugged into a more modern style game? Absolutely, in my opinion.

  3. #323

    While not a general (involuntary) PvP fan, I will say I'm sick of seeing factions. I also don't really agree with starving PvE resources to facilitate PvP. The castle concept sounds all well and good, except for maybe the 2 week/sign up thing. One thing I hated about Aion was forts only being vulnerable during specific windows. I can understand the idea behind hoping to get as many people together at certain points instead of more frequent back-and-forth of guerilla style, but my inner RPer is like, "Why?!?!" Timered or not, zergs still seem to happen, if only because targeting systems in MMOs make it difficult to counter lots of targets.

  4. #324
    TIME OUT MOTHERFUCKER

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    Ultima Online was probably the best MMO in history of MMOs.

    It had something for everybody.

    There was plenty of PvP. Plenty of Dungeoneering, crafting, exploring and RPing. Hell, RPers had their own towns!

    EvE came close. . .but no other game that I've played could recapture the same sandboxish appeal.

    I still don't understand why no other MMO has tried the sandbox approach.

  5. #325
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    It'd be a programmers nightmare nowadays with the expectations people have of MMOs nowadays as opposed to when it was in its infancy with Ultima Online.

  6. #326
    TIME OUT MOTHERFUCKER

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleverness View Post
    It'd be a programmers nightmare nowadays with the expectations people have of MMOs nowadays as opposed to when it was in its infancy with Ultima Online.
    The game was incredibly simple in design. It was just very freeform which gave players incentive to create their own game within Ultima's universe. For example, there was no auction house but there were player created trade hubs.

    edit:

    Mortal Online, by the way, did an awesome job emulating Ultima Online in every aspect but with 3D graphics and fun combat.

    edit edit:

    Come to think of it, Mortal Online pretty much is spot on for what OP wanted. I mean, spot on.

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