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Thread: The future of MMO's     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #161

    LOL i just said the same thing! lol, I kind of disagree in giving actual bonuses or skills to certain character types during creation as it will cause an imbalance and its a bit backward.

    What most people want right now is freedom to build their character and not be pushed to choose a particular race or class because this is the only way they will be accepted by the community as good or efficient. This is what will happen if we place any kind of pre made buff to any character type before creation.

    This works in a solo rpg environment, but when dealing with thousands of other players, it will def create limits on what people will be able to choose in order to be effective among others.

    Persona and role playing/storyline choices should never affect actual game play mechanics to the point of changing ones playstyles. What it should do is help build a character along side gameplay /battle system choices

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renzokuken View Post
    As far as a specific RP server, I have a hard time even understanding the need for one. Can't RPers do their RP anywhere? Why do they need a secluded place to punish anyone OOC? It has been my experience that hard core RPers will stay in character regardless of what the hell is going on around them. Perhaps someone can enlighten me.
    You can't properly RP in an environment where others aren't as well. It's like trying act out a play, aloud, in a bar. It just doesn't work and can be hazardous to your health. Proper RP entails playing off the surrounding scene and you can't do that with people doing whatever, talking about pwning nubcakes... It's also disingenuous to expect others to adhere to your own personal RP ties when the average player has no desire to put up with your bullshit (for example, FFXI is easily the worst MMO to ever attempt RP on. Your RP directly effects other peoples leveling and enjoyment). It's just easier to separate the two entities.

    I did RP on a couple servers on UO but never in another game. I don't think I'd even attempt it in another MMO. I felt UO was a good median for RP since it really is the most open-ended MMO in existence. No levels. No classes. No end goal. Just be what you want, do what you want, however you want. And none of this will ever negatively effect other players around you.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Jorildyn View Post
    Furthermore, text-based chat creates a far greater disconnect in communication than voip. For example, anonymity (distance) is more easily attainable via text chat. People are more likely to flame each other in text than voice for the same reasons. When you look at every aspects of text-based chat all you see is disconnect and a form a communication devoid of humanities such as emotion, intonation, and passion.
    So, you haven't been anywhere near voice chat on the xbox, I'm assuming?

  4. #164
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    I would have no problem with roleplaying in MMOs if the people who did it weren't all A) Completely and utterly awful at the game 99.9% of the time and B) Weren't just in it to have furry cyber sex with each other.

    I've never met a roleplayer in any MMO that didn't fit into at least one of those categories. Most of the time it was both, straight up. The biggest problem with roleplaying is the roleplaying community. I'm fine the the concept, but I don't dare practice it because of how positively creepy most RPers are and how awful the game experience tends to be. Fun can certainly be independent of winning and losing, but there's nothing wrong with winning from time to time.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lordender View Post
    You don't need voice chat to be successful in modern MMO's, the guild I joined back in Ulduar in WoW was a very good hardmode guild before ToC came out and vent was 100% optional for raiding. They had class channels, so warriors or etc needed to be in their proper channels etc while the class lead explained the things they need to be doing thru chat. Our guild blew peoples minds because they were the only guild on our server that cleared pre-nerf sunwell in TBC, all vanilla content without the single use of vent.

    Voice chat sure makes things easier but its not required.
    The game might not require voice chat but the playerbase will inevitably require it.
    Hell, we've already reached a point where someone can argue one is objectively superior to the other and not be called out on it.

    Text-based chat has many advantages over voice chat:
    - Arus (and other people in his situation or the more common situation of having to take care of kids) can hear his father.

    - You can understand me and I can understand you all. Not sure that'd be true with voice chat. Even among native english speakers, I bet you americans might've trouble understanding a welsh individual.

    - No making fun of people for their voice/accent.
    In case they remedy the point above with forced localised servers, this would be rampant.
    Fuck, if a frenchman hears a Belgian or Swiss accent, he immediatly goes into "superiority complex mode" and becomes unbearable.
    Same for any language (to a lesser degree, of course: no one is as full of himself as a frenchman*), large groups will always mock a small group's accent.
    Unusual voice? You're fucked.

    *Hence why I usually play on UK server when I have a choice of EU servers, not french-speaking ones.

    - Written speech allows for finer language than spoken speech. Some people don't care about that, but some of us do.

    - Text chat doesn't break immersion nearly as much as voice chat.
    Voice chat during a story-driven event (such as FFXI missions) would be highly detrimental.

    - If a girl wants to play a male char or the opposite, why shouldn't they be allowed to in complete anonymity?
    And why should we have to hear a female char bellow like Barry White (man, that'd be disturbing)?

    - How about a celeb? Surely they should be allowed to play a game without having to go through the whole "hey, you're X!", shouldn't they?

    - Some voices are damn irritating.


    About RP:
    Not my thing, but surely having RP-dedicated servers should be enough to separate the crowds, shouldn't it? Outside of a few troll outliers, it's simple enough to stay off the RP servers if you hate it and off the non-RP servers if people talking out of character drivers you up the wall.

  6. #166

    I'm not even sure what's up for debate here. It surely isn't anything about the "Future of MMO's" because VOIP being available is something a dev cannot control. If you don't like voice chat, don't use it. If people doing any endgame events require you to use VOIP services, well, you simply can't do it with those people. This is a community problem that is completely out of the developers hands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cantih View Post
    So, you haven't been anywhere near voice chat on the xbox, I'm assuming?
    In a thread discussing the future of MMOs, I don't think the XBOX's voice chat capability is even part of the equation.

    There are certain people that cannot be on the mic/headset all the time because of rl situations. That's totally understandable. However top-tier guilds will require it 99% of the time during events. Just makes things easier and if someone has a hard time understanding that... well, then nothing more than be said. You can bet a lot of anti-voip sentiment comes from the XI crowd because it was not a standardized practice due to community fragmentation between PC and console players.

    Everyone's got their preference about voip, but many of the anti-voip stuff being posted here is really outlandish, if not borderline childish in nature. Making fun of people's accents? Really? Cichy is polish, with the accent and all, and not a single person in my guild has ever or will ever make fun of him for that. How many celebrities does the average person meet in their mmo career exactly? Mature gamers can handle girls. Got plenty of girls in my gaming community and the guys respect them for their skill and talent. There isn't any room for anonymity is a tight-knit group looking to succeed in a gaming world together.

    Those are seriously some strawman arguments. However if you're 16 and giggle a lot, then that all makes perfect sense.

    But the previous post is right in that voip is a meta-game discussion and isn't related to the topic of the future of MMOs precisely. It is just something that comes along for the ride in a way as the majority of high-end gaming groups/communities utilize it on a mandatory level for raiding.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatguardian View Post
    I would have no problem with roleplaying in MMOs if the people who did it weren't all A) Completely and utterly awful at the game 99.9% of the time and B) Weren't just in it to have furry cyber sex with each other.

    I've never met a roleplayer in any MMO that didn't fit into at least one of those categories. Most of the time it was both, straight up. The biggest problem with roleplaying is the roleplaying community. I'm fine the the concept, but I don't dare practice it because of how positively creepy most RPers are and how awful the game experience tends to be. Fun can certainly be independent of winning and losing, but there's nothing wrong with winning from time to time.
    Allow me to explain one of the most enjoyable RP experiences I've been privileged to partake in, and maybe this will give people a small glimpse into the world.

    There was a server on UO where myself and 3 other guys had bandit characters that masqueraded as the four horsemen of the apocalypse. We had a special costume when we went as the horsemen, then normal clothes for when we were just men. The four of us had played the game for numerous years already so knew the ins and outs of the game, which helped us create pretty powerful combative characters quickly (RP servers on UO tended to be 50/50 on non-combative and combative players). I was also friends with the server admin, who RPed as the servers "King" at the time, so we were able to set up a proper lasting event for the server.

    The four of us (only together, never alone. Very important) would loot, pillage, maim, murdrer, etc every village in the continent from time to time (not constantly, but enough to be considered a nuisance) and say the end was nigh, and all that jazz, but in reality our characters were just men who wanted to take advantage of an old superstition by instilling fear into other men and then loot them dry. We had to train ourselves in a secret hideout, purchase wares in the less frequented towns, hunt monsters for loot that were too difficult to explore or too difficult to get to etc to keep our identities hidden. It was actually pretty difficult to pull it off secretly, but that was part of the RP. Anyway, after a couple months of hit and run kind of battles with the player base, we eventually got done in by the most unlikely of players. A wandering thief was out and about stealthed in a random town picking the pockets of the unwary traveler. I (Pestilence) happened to be buying nightshade for my poison, that I always had on my weapon, in the same town. He went to pickpocket my pack and happened to take my horsemen robe, which was unique specifically to me (created by the admin). Realizing who I was this thief then proceeded to follow me to our secret lair. The thief, as the good RPer he was, thought to himself what would be the most profitable way to get this valuable information out... And it hit him. He scheduled a meeting with the King (meetings with the King were done on the forum. The server admin would schedule a specific time with you, which you could then come online and talk with him if it was of grave importance to the empire) on the grounds that he had found out the identity of the horsemen, who had been destroying his kingdom, and also knew where their secret base was and wanted to be rewarded handsomely for it (and he was). After this we were then caught, thrown in jail, and then executed publicly.

    While the whole experience was great fun for myself and the other three horsemen, it was also a big hit with the rest of the server (after the fact anyway, people hated us when it was actually going down lol). The story was generated almost entirely through player made means (the only thing we didn't do on our own was, anything the King did, and our special horsemen robes). This was essentially an impromptu player made event that had lasted a full 3 months or more.... You will never experience this kind of thing in a normal MMO. It's just not possible. And it's those kind of experiences that RPers yearn to have. There's a lot of effort involved, but after all is said and done you know you were a small part of something truly special.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arelian View Post
    I'm not even sure what's up for debate here. It surely isn't anything about the "Future of MMO's" because VOIP being available is something a dev cannot control. If you don't like voice chat, don't use it. If people doing any endgame events require you to use VOIP services, well, you simply can't do it with those people. This is a community problem that is completely out of the developers hands.
    I do believe that VOIP is something that will be truly integrated in MMO's soon enough. Not like crappy VOIP like in WoW, but real legitimate MMO-hosted VOIP. I understand the arguments against it, but in the end that is where, not only the genre, but all video games are moving.

    As for people that can't "communicate" by voice, have you ever tried to read the average American teenager/young adult trying to type? I would much rather listen to them than try to read that garbage. In FFXI, I have had French and Germany players in my LS and they were both on Vent. Their English was weak but completely understandable. I am not saying we need to ditch text, but VOIP is definitely the direct games are going.

    Honestly, most of the complaints that Ashmada has about VOIP apply to text just as much. They are really arguments about players being douchebags, not about VOIP.

    Text-based chat has many advantages over voice chat:
    - Arus (and other people in his situation or the more common situation of having to take care of kids) can hear his father.
    This might be your only legitimate argument as to why text is better than VOIP, but it falsely assumes everyone plays with headphones and not speakers and they are so loud that they can't hear anything else. You have to make accommodations for your environment. If you have to pay attention to a child, you play with speakers on low and a baby monitor. This is true of everything in your life when you have a baby.

    - You can understand me and I can understand you all. Not sure that'd be true with voice chat. Even among native english speakers, I bet you americans might've trouble understanding a welsh individual.
    As I said above, I have played with French and Germans, and as long as people try its really not hard to understand each other. There is the added benefit of people that are not native English speakers learning colloquialisms and getting more practice.

    - No making fun of people for their voice/accent.
    In case they remedy the point above with forced localised servers, this would be rampant.
    Fuck, if a frenchman hears a Belgian or Swiss accent, he immediatly goes into "superiority complex mode" and becomes unbearable.
    Same for any language (to a lesser degree, of course: no one is as full of himself as a frenchman*), large groups will always mock a small group's accent.
    Unusual voice? You're fucked.
    *Hence why I usually play on UK server when I have a choice of EU servers, not french-speaking ones.
    Again, you act like people are civil over text chat. I find that people tend to be more civil over VOIP than with the anonymity of text chat. Also if someone is a douche just because of a voice or accent, it is much easier for peer pressure or group leaders to deal with the issue when they can hear it. You are WAY exaggerating this problem and acting like general douchebaggery only happens over VOIP, when in fact, the situation is likely the opposite.


    - Written speech allows for finer language than spoken speech. Some people don't care about that, but some of us do.
    As I said above, most people speak with much more precision than they can type. I don't think the average MMO player is the Shakespeare you think they are.

    - Text chat doesn't break immersion nearly as much as voice chat.
    Voice chat during a story-driven event (such as FFXI missions) would be highly detrimental.
    Only if RP is your only consideration. I don't see how VOIP hurts story-driven events, again you are really exaggerating the situation. VOIP is also really beneficial to coordination for things like FFXI missions.


    - If a girl wants to play a male char or the opposite, why shouldn't they be allowed to in complete anonymity?
    And why should we have to hear a female char bellow like Barry White (man, that'd be disturbing)?
    Again, only if RP is your only consideration. Gameplay trumps RP, every time. Unless the game was SPECIFICALLY designed for RP. And no MMO on the market has ever done that. Also, there is the consideration that a lack of VOIP allows people to hide their identity which can have unintended consequences as well.

    - How about a celeb? Surely they should be allowed to play a game without having to go through the whole "hey, you're X!", shouldn't they?
    What is more likely? You listen to someone on VOIP and say "ZOMG, YOU SOUND LIKE JEREMY CLARKSON, THEREFORE, BY TRANSITIVE PROPERTY YOU MUST BE JEREMY CLARKSON!" or you say "Hey, you sound like Jeremy Clarkson! Can you say "...in the world?"

    - Some voices are damn irritating.
    And some people aren't damn irritating when they type?

    You are really grasping at straws at this point.

    How about real issues like deaf players? That is a much bigger concern than anything you have listed.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by ringthree
    As for people that can't "communicate" by voice, have you ever tried to read the average American teenager/young adult trying to type? I would much rather listen to them than try to read that garbage.
    Why pander to idiots? I know morons that can't distinguish "their" and "they're" are the main reason voice chat is preferred... I just don't agree that we should accomodate them.
    Tbh, that's an advantage of text-based chat, not a downside. Easily spotted halokids are easily ignored halokids.

    Quote Originally Posted by ringthree
    As I said above, most people speak with much more precision than they can type. I don't think the average MMO player is the Shakespeare you think they are.
    And pandering to the majority is such a great idea...

    It's not a matter of competence, it's a matter of effort. If you treat written speech like spoken speech, you're extremely lazy and inconsiderate.

    Quote Originally Posted by ringthree
    Only if RP is your only consideration. I don't see how VOIP hurts story-driven events, again you are really exaggerating the situation. VOIP is also really beneficial to coordination for things like FFXI missions.
    Caring about story!=RP. Just because you don't want InaneJoe sharing his epic tale of "popping down the shops buying new burritos lol" in the middle of a cutscene doesn't make you a RPer.
    Do you talk in cinemas and yell "fuck you RPer" when people manifest irritation?

    FFXI missions really didn't require voice chat. Most of them could be solo'd, ffs; who's grasping at straws?

    Quote Originally Posted by ringthree
    Again, only if RP is your only consideration. Gameplay trumps RP, every time. Unless the game was SPECIFICALLY designed for RP. And no MMO on the market has ever done that. Also, there is the consideration that a lack of VOIP allows people to hide their identity which can have unintended consequences as well.
    People play the chars they want, and it has nothing to do with RP.

    Quote Originally Posted by ringthree
    What is more likely? You listen to someone on VOIP and say "ZOMG, YOU SOUND LIKE JEREMY CLARKSON, THEREFORE, BY TRANSITIVE PROPERTY YOU MUST BE JEREMY CLARKSON!" or you say "Hey, you sound like Jeremy Clarkson! Can you say "...in the world?"
    Ok, this might be your only valid rebuttal. Voice chat would indeed be useful to remind Jeremy Clarkson he should be fighting econazis instead of playing videogames.
    We're losing the battle, the general can't afford to waste away precious time in a MMO.


    I never said the list was exhaustive, btw. There's also music, for instance. I like listening to music when playing, personally.

    And yes, I know we've lost. The new generation has come and they loathe typing their words when they could be shouting them. I know nothing will bring back text chat in MMOs... and it's a shame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmada View Post
    Why pander to idiots? I know morons that can't distinguish "their" and "they're" are the main reason voice chat is preferred... I just don't agree that we should accomodate them.
    Tbh, that's an advantage of text-based chat, not a downside. Easily spotted halokids are easily ignored halokids.

    And pandering to the majority is such a great idea...

    It's not a matter of competence, it's a matter of effort. If you treat written speech like spoken speech, you're extremely lazy and inconsiderate.
    You are living in an imaginary world where the only people you play with have Ph.D.'s in English... If you do anything in any game that requires a group you accept a certain amount of improper typing. VOIP is just better in this regard. You really are living in a fantasy world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmada View Post
    Caring about story!=RP. Just because you don't want InaneJoe sharing his epic tale of "popping down the shops buying new burritos lol" in the middle of a cutscene doesn't make you a RPer.
    Do you talk in cinemas and yell "fuck you RPer" when people manifest irritation?
    How does VOIP interfere with this at all? You know there is a mute button on all VOIP programs right? As has already been noted, you are just making up strawmen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmada View Post
    FFXI missions really didn't require voice chat. Most of them could be solo'd, ffs; who's grasping at straws?
    Ah, I am beginning to understand now... you are just ignorant of end-game. You obviously never did Chains of Promathia when it was relevant content. This is pretty much exactly why game designers should not focus on RPers and casuals. They live in a little world unto themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmada View Post
    People play the chars they want, and it has nothing to do with RP.
    It has everything to do with RP and only RP. Gameplay trumps 100% of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmada View Post
    Ok, this might be your only valid rebuttal. Voice chat would indeed be useful to remind Jeremy Clarkson he should be fighting econazis instead of playing videogames.
    We're losing the battle, the general can't afford to waste away precious time in a MMO.

    But what's the point in trying to make a case when the opposition only brings ad hominem to the fore? Greg, you might be 16 and gigglish, but you should really try to argue your case, not attack the opponent.
    You have yet to make an argument. You are grasping at straws. I don't know if your "arguments" raise to a level that need more than ad hominen to rebut.

    You are literally arguing against VOIP altogether. That ship already sailed. VOIP can still be supplemented with text chat, all of the issues you have brought up are dealt with by this.

  12. #172
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    On a similar subject, what are your opinions on voice acting in MMO's? Do you think they should be implemented for most quests/dungeons/whatever or just for certain raids/dungeons like WoW does?

    My thoughts are that if voice acting done right, is amazing. the way Blizzard does it god awful, they pick the worst VA's or just make Metzen voice everything. Annoys the shit out of me. Well of Eternity is a fucking joke.

    The problem with full voice acting is it might take longer for them to churn out more content because of it but honestly I have no idea. Only assuming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by samalis View Post
    On a similar subject, what are your opinions on voice acting in MMO's? Do you think they should be implemented for most quests/dungeons/whatever or just for certain raids/dungeons like WoW does?

    My thoughts are that if voice acting done right, is amazing. the way Blizzard does it god awful, they pick the worst VA's or just make Metzen voice everything. Annoys the shit out of me. Well of Eternity is a fucking joke.

    The problem with full voice acting is it might take longer for them to churn out more content because of it but honestly I have no idea. Only assuming.
    It can be interesting if well done. I actually like it in WoW. In SWTOR it is way overdone and gets quite boring and repetitive when it's used in even side quests.

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    You lost what little credibility your arguments had when you mentioned FFXI did not require voice chat for missions. Again, future of MMOs. I'd like to point out that while it may not have been required, it still would have been more efficient.

    Furthermore it is widely known that a good number of main XI players (and many on these boards) have an anti-voip sentiment. All the presented arguments resemble the same points those players present every time this comes up. I accept those players are like that, in all their ignorance, and would some day like to see the same players develop just one logical, objective, and coherent reason why voip is specifically disadvantageous as compared to text-based chat. That or just admit their perspective on the matter is a product bred out of their own mmo, which does not and should not ever extend to other games.

  15. #175

    Quote Originally Posted by samalis View Post
    On a similar subject, what are your opinions on voice acting in MMO's? Do you think they should be implemented for most quests/dungeons/whatever or just for certain raids/dungeons like WoW does?

    My thoughts are that if voice acting done right, is amazing. the way Blizzard does it god awful, they pick the worst VA's or just make Metzen voice everything. Annoys the shit out of me. Well of Eternity is a fucking joke.

    The problem with full voice acting is it might take longer for them to churn out more content because of it but honestly I have no idea. Only assuming.
    I think it ought to be kept to a minimum if it's to be included at all. Getting a good performance is damned difficult to do and tying up dialogue with VAs just severely limits design flexibility should the devs need to go back and alter things later on. It has its place, but on the whole it seems like the risk isn't likely to be worth the reward.

    I'd rather see efforts put into making the dialogue terse and engaging, rather than the generic rambling we get in a lot of games. I want the dialogue to be worth reading, rather than something I can mindlessly skip over because it doesn't matter.

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    No... When you mentioned FFXI you specifically stated they did not require voice chat and "they could be solo'd ffs". That statement is a commentary on the lack of utility for voip in a single mmo (XI) and the simple gameplay of missions in said mmo. Doesn't seem like that refers to story-driven content.

    I used the word ignorant because I have seen all these argument before and anyone with any real experience in a guild that utilizes voip knows everything you said is a grave exaggeration of the truth on this matter. Hence ignorance (lack of knowledge/experience in this situation), not stupidity, because you clearly have no grasp on the reality of the situation.

    I've made plenty of arguments but you have clearly ignored them lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by ringthree View Post
    As I said above, I have played with French and Germans, and as long as people try its really not hard to understand each other. There is the added benefit of people that are not native English speakers learning colloquialisms and getting more practice.
    Just to toss in an anecdote, when I was playing EVE I specifically joined a Korean corp (guild) that used VOIP heavily. It was a great way for me to get more practice speaking, listening, and learning slang or regional dialects that I wouldn't have been exposed to at school. Not once did I run into anyone making comments about my accent, or some of the broken grammar I used sometimes. On the contrary, I had a Mumble channel full of people to help me correct my mistakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viq View Post
    Just to toss in an anecdote, when I was playing EVE I specifically joined a Korean corp (guild) that used VOIP heavily. It was a great way for me to get more practice speaking, listening, and learning slang or regional dialects that I wouldn't have been exposed to at school. Not once did I run into anyone making comments about my accent, or some of the broken grammar I used sometimes. On the contrary, I had a Mumble channel full of people to help me correct my mistakes.
    There definitely is a cultural difference too. You could do that with Koreans, but it would be much harder to do that with Japanese. Also, my German friend had no problem at all on Vent, while my French friend was much more timid. I would guess that is because the French are more sensitive about their own language. As they became more comfortable, it wasn't an issue at all. Most Americans that aren't intentionally trying to be racist, don't really care about foreign accents, and I don't think most foreign speakers realize this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmada View Post
    Seriously, Greg, learn to read. I understand now why not only you prefer voice chat but would like to enforce it on everyone: you suck at reading.
    Here's the simpleton (paraphrased for brevity, not malicious intent) version:
    My conversation was with you, not with what you were discussing with ringthree. Those aren't my arguments to support (although I agree with much of what he said to you about it). I'd also like to point out that your points were somewhat hard to follow because many lacked any sense.

    I prefer voice chat but I am not pushing it on anyone. If that's what you think, you are suffering from the same reading comprehension problems you are attributing to me. My argument is that it is better 100% of the time and to argue otherwise is folly. If you don't want to use voice chat, fine with me, just don't use strawman arguments to support your reasoning, while stating them as some objective fact they are not.

  20. #180

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmada View Post
    Seriously, Greg, learn to read. I understand now why not only you prefer voice chat but would like to enforce it on everyone: you suck at reading.
    Here's the simpleton (paraphrased for brevity, not malicious intent) version:

    - My point: voice interrupts story (example: FFXI missions).
    This is pretty factual, if you want to verify it trying having a phone convo while watching a movie. You won't be able to concentrate on both.
    - His rebuttal: you need voice chat to coordinate those missions. Also, you're one of those dirty RPers, so there!
    - My re-rebuttal: no, you don't. Most of them are so easy you can solo them. Also, am not!
    - His return: You didn't play CoP when it was hard! Also, are so!
    - Mine: I did, succeeded using text only, thus proving voice chat isn't necessary.

    But don't worry, that was hard to follow. Oh so hard.

    FFXI is used as an example solely because it's assumed that, on a FFXI board, most people are familiar with it.
    Actually, one of his rebuttals was you can mute VOIP programs.

    Also, FFXI is a pisspoor example of a game where VOIP is useful. It had it's time, sure, but it try doing any kind of "hardcore" raiding in WoW/Rift without being able to effectively communicate tank swaps within 2-3 seconds of each other. I can't think of a single person who can manage to continue building threat/running from something terrible/etc... against a difficult boss while still typing at any effective speed. You only have so many hands.

    Another edit: I still don't see why this is an argument. If you don't want to use it, don't. It's that simple. If that means you can't do cutting-edge raiding, that's your own choice. The fact remains that VOIP is 100% superior to text when it comes to communicating quickly and efficiently. You can say things faster than you can type them, and that is why it's preferred for things that require twitch reflexes.

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