GW2 thoughts after playing: The history of MMO failure's.. w/a sprinkle of WoW talk edition

[Imitarate]

There is some variety between lower and higher level play, it would seem. Up into the teens, you're likely working on unlocking weapons, getting your first couple of utility skills, defining the basics of how you want to play, learning what your class is capable of. Once you hit 20 and the last utility slot unlocks (and 30, when you get elite), I imagine it'll become a lot more based on learning how skills combine with your weapons in a given situation -- a degree of complication beyond merely what you're swinging at things.

[Rhyis.]

To be honest, the one thing I'm really looking forward to now is WvWvW. It's GW's expanded take on DAoC's RvR system. Granted, it promotes a lot of AOE heavy and zerg tactics, but I thought it captured the old spirit pretty damn well.

From what I've seen, GW2 hasn't really expanded on anything that Mythic hasn't already done in DAoC or WAR. They've just taken RvR and have their own classes battling over the objectives while using their own combat system. Which isn't a bad thing, RvR is awesome. It's just not new.

[Zzsark]

I wish I had gotten a SS of the character select screen where those banners track your progress across the world. Not only for completing all world event (Hearts/Points of Interest/Waypoint/etc.) but there were a few below that for completing additional quest lines for joining (3 I believe) various groups as well. Anyone have a picture of that? I feel like I'm forgetting something. Also, based on the rewards you can get for getting 100% in a zone I'm pretty excited to see what they give you at 100% world completion.

And I'd like to point out that not only will you be 'grinding' dungeons for the skins, you can also use your points to purchase sigils/runes for weps and armor enhancements which is really where the majority of your stat increases are going to come from (like everyone has said base stats are flat across a level pretty much). So far they haven't released a ton of info about all the ways you will be able to attain those so I won’t say they will only come from dungeons but that's one more thing to add to the list of things to do in game. Just like in GW1 I can see myself getting multiple gear sets for various encounters.

This just adds to the amount of things you can spend your time doing. For me endgame will not only be collecting skins/runes/sigils/jewels but seeking out the DEs that are massive chains leading up to very fun end results (that reward everyone) whether it be like the one in beta that opens up the open world underwater mini-dungeon (Font of Rhand) or leading to a Dragon event. These large chains can be quite time consuming to push in the direction you want to go.

I for one am happy that the reason I will be repeating dungeon content (applies to DEs as well) is not only to accumulate points for the ultimate rewards but to also explore all the paths they have rather than 1% drop rates on gear. I loved the mechanics of salvage but the original drop rates are just rage inducing. Did you guys see the prices on some of those lvl 80 items the Karma vendors have? Holy shit that is going to take some time to accumulate. Anyone remember seeing what the average karma reward was in some of the gameplay videos from Pax/GC demos where people got to play at higher lvls?

[Isiolia]

I wish I had gotten a SS of the character select screen where those banners track your progress across the world. Not only for completing all world event (Hearts/Points of Interest/Waypoint/etc.) but there were a few below that for completing additional quest lines for joining (3 I believe) various groups as well. Anyone have a picture of that? I feel like I'm forgetting something. Also, based on the rewards you can get for getting 100% in a zone I'm pretty excited to see what they give you at 100% world completion.

I'd posted one a few posts back. I think. Medals aren't labeled though.



If that's what you mean.

[Zzsark]

That is exactly what I was talking about. Saw that after I posted. Wish I could remember what the bottom 3 were for. There are lots of things to work toward completing that's for sure. Whether or not they all interest everyone is another thing, but you can definately keep yourself busy for a good long while. I guess my main concern would be how long IS it going to take me to complete all the things I listed, and after that point have they release more content that I can now start on. If they haven't PvE for me will kinda go to the way side unless I'm helping out friends with shit, but I was pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed PvP in this game. It's usually not something I'm drawn towards at all in RPGs but if through some terrible miracle I finish all the PvE content and Anet has not released anything new at least I'll always have PvP to challenge me. I think it's the most fun I've had in PvP oriented gameplay since CS Source (very different but same kind of I can get lost in it for hours sort of effect).

[vrumpt]

If i had to guess, zones that are going to support level 70+ content are not going to be nearly as easy or pleasant as the areas we've seen this weekend. They can put anything they want in those areas, and its totally ok if its so dangerous that it makes dynamis look like sunshine and rainbows since nobody is forcing you to go into those more dangerous areas. I have no idea if they are going to be super dangerous, but i'd like to think they will be.

[Arelian]

I believe the bottom 3 are for joining the 3 main factions that are fighting the Dragons. The Vigil, Order of Whispers and Durmand Priory.

[Zzsark]

I believe the bottom 3 are for joining the 3 main factions that are fighting the Dragons. The Vigil, Order of Whispers and Durmand Priory.

What were the middle 3 for then?

[Arelian]

Possibly racial storylines? I honestly have no idea.

[Fairy-Killer]

If you move through it slowly, you can see what the medals are for.

[Pendas]

The Three in the center were for joining the three organizations (The Vigil, Order of Whispers and Durmand Priory) The bottom right was collecting all the treasure discoveries in the game, the bottom left was for killing every creature, and I'm not sure what the bottom middle one was for.

[Djohn]

The Three in the center were for joining the three organizations (The Vigil, Order of Whispers and Durmand Priory) The bottom right was collecting all the treasure discoveries in the game, the bottom left was for killing every creature, and I'm not sure what the bottom middle one was for.

Since it's kinda hard to see in the above video, I'll save everyone the trouble. This is what the bottom middle one says:

Realm Avenger
Kill enemy invaders in the World vs World battlefield.

[The Blackrose]

From what I've seen, GW2 hasn't really expanded on anything that Mythic hasn't already done in DAoC or WAR. They've just taken RvR and have their own classes battling over the objectives while using their own combat system. Which isn't a bad thing, RvR is awesome. It's just not new.

So where exactly did I say it was new?

The only new part, if anything, is the requirement of supply runs for doors/upgrades and the ability (or requirement in some cases) to starve out outposts/keeps before attempting to cap them.

That and we're not dealing with FOTM realm classes.

[ringthree]

Is there a cash shop? What can you buy in it? I assume it's not P2P (in fact, I know it is not), but if the game advancement is partially based on appearance "coolness" it would be a way to get around the P2P label (Pay for reward?).

Another "end-game" question: If your stats don't really matter, what sort of system is in place to increase your power to do harder stuff later on? I understand that you can do any dungeon at cap because of scaling, but once you have cleared all those, how do you get stronger? This might be one of those "you just don't get it" questions, but I like to kill progressively harder things, so that is where I am coming from.

Sorry, I keep asking questions but after yesterdays discussion, I am much more intrigued by the game not as an MMO, but as kind of a Final Fantasy-keep-playing-forever-to-max-out-everything kind of type.

[Qalbert]

Certain dungeons will just always be more challenging than others, if you want a hard one do a hard one. It's not really about getting stronger, you jsut get better and better at playing your class/weapon sets. The increase is not stats, but player skill.

Like there's not a label for "skill required to complete" as far as I am aware, but in theory there could be a level 50 dungeon that is as challenging as a level 80 one.

Cash shop, from what I saw in the beta, was stuff like extra character slots, a few inventory aids (which I am a bit annoyed about, but you can buy them with in game currency too, so it's not a big deal) and costumes like the chef outfit, and a very disappointing ringmasters hat, which did not look like a top hat, and thus did not make my Charr look dapper. Also transmutation or something stones to take the stats from one armor and put them on the skin of another.

[Rhyis.]

So where exactly did I say it was new?

The only new part, if anything, is the requirement of supply runs for doors/upgrades and the ability (or requirement in some cases) to starve out outposts/keeps before attempting to cap them.

That and we're not dealing with FOTM realm classes.

Well you said it was expanded upon, and all the things you listed there were in WAR.

[ringthree]

Certain dungeons will just always be more challenging than others, if you want a hard one do a hard one. It's not really about getting stronger, you jsut get better and better at playing your class/weapon sets. The increase is not stats, but player skill.

Like there's not a label for "skill required to complete" as far as I am aware, but in theory there could be a level 50 dungeon that is as challenging as a level 80 one.

Cash shop, from what I saw in the beta, was stuff like extra character slots, a few inventory aids (which I am a bit annoyed about, but you can buy them with in game currency too, so it's not a big deal) and costumes like the chef outfit, and a very disappointing ringmasters hat, which did not look like a top hat, and thus did not make my Charr look dapper. Also transmutation or something stones to take the stats from one armor and put them on the skin of another.

That is what I figured out of the cash shop. As long as I don't need to use it for anything, I am fine with it.

I am really, really hesitant when they say it's not about stats but about "player skill". Since time immemorial (Atari 2600) games essentially have two inputs, directional and button mashing. That's not skill. If it's learning an encounter that's cool, but it's not skill so much as practice. So what does "player skill" mean in this situation? Does it mean that most of the encounters will be twitch based (what a lot of people interpret to be "skill")? I play with "casuals" but I tend to be more hardcore in my approach to gaming. Will I want to beat a small child to death with a baby because their "skill" isn't up to par (meaning they can know an encounter, do everything right, and still fail because of reaction time or not walking a tight rope properly)?

[Qalbert]

Knowing the dungeon/mobs/boss is certainly a large factor. Dodging is a component, to the extent that it's a whole mechanic, but not necessarily a super twitchy one, it seems fairly forgiving. I didn't get particularly far in the beta, tried a little bit of everything rather than focusing on progression of one character, so I can't say anything for certain, but to me skill in GW2 is a combination of knowledge of the scenario etc, and the rhythm of weapon swapping, dodging, attunement swapping or kit swapping if you're on an applicable class, using the appropriate skills/status effects, and so on. Just autoattacking, or mashing skills, won't do the job, at least not in harder ones. There may be some that can be run fairly mindlessly, I don't know.

[Kuishen]

a few inventory aids (which I am a bit annoyed about, but you can buy them with in game currency too, so it's not a big deal)

If you're talking about the bags, spend like 10 minutes in Tailoring and you can craft I believe... 8 slot bags? You can make them with your starting recipes and literally takes the cheapest ingredient. Bought a Fine Salvage kit and from a couple events worth of loot was able to salvage the materials to make 2 of them. 20 + (8x5) = Plenty of inventory space. I believe 5 extra bag slots were what you started off with anyways.

The only thing I noticed was the Bank Tabs, but it wouldn't take long to amass the gold to trade for the gems necessary for that.

[Zzsark]

Another "end-game" question: If your stats don't really matter, what sort of system is in place to increase your power to do harder stuff later on? I understand that you can do any dungeon at cap because of scaling, but once you have cleared all those, how do you get stronger? This might be one of those "you just don't get it" questions, but I like to kill progressively harder things, so that is where I am coming from.

Sorry, I keep asking questions but after yesterdays discussion, I am much more intrigued by the game not as an MMO, but as kind of a Final Fantasy-keep-playing-forever-to-max-out-everything kind of type.

I really hate that people keep saying stats don't matter (not talking about you because you're asking the question) because they do. Yes, base line stats on all lvl X gear are going to be the same but if you don't take the time to get the runes/sigils/jewels to outfit that base gear you're going to be at a disadvantage over someone who has. I'd imagine if you try to run a lvl 80 dungeon with lvl 20 gear on you're going to have a bad time. And those max stat runes/sigils/jewels don't just fall from the sky they are going to take some time to get, or at least be quite expensive to purchase. Not saying player skill isn't important (I think it's also a huge factor the way this game plays) but you have to give people credit for making their gear good over some who just half-assidly put together some w/e set they got from regular mob drops (i.e a bunch of non coordinated blues, or even whites).

Edit: Don't know if you've already scoured the wiki for all it's worth but if not these may help regarding this subject.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Runes
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jewel
You find a skin you like and then you make the gear that fits the build you're going for, soo you aren't doing X encounter because Y piece of gear drops from there that has +10 to awesome for your super duper killer build.