GW2 thoughts after playing: The history of MMO failure's.. w/a sprinkle of WoW talk edition

[vrumpt]

Hmm, that's kind of weird. You (and a couple others) have had posts about "feelings" about this game, while I have tried to be a bit more analytical (maybe I have failed).

And we've all played the game for 30+ hours this past weekend and have been informed over the past year+ of Arenanets design philosophies and their goals. You have done neither. You are basing everything you say off of your own incorrect assumptions and misconceptions that spawn from the genre's actions over the past decade, and trends that GW2 intentionally sets out to break.

^ my last reply to R3. it just keeps him here. Yes the game is worth your money, trust us. Buy it, or when the time arrives, try the trial. You won't be let down, I promise.

[The Blackrose]

You people had to pay?

That being said, R3's skepticism is healthy. Time and time again, people have built up the next "big" thing as the second coming. But the truth of the matter is that all it does is build up expectations that ultimately will never be satisfied. It's been happening to every MMO since EverQuest - the next MMO comes along and says it will be the "mythical killer," when all it does is fire blanks. I'd actually go as far as saying that anybody that buys into that much fervent hype at this point of history is a fucking dumbass. The only people that stoop below that level are people that take review sites seriously.

If you cannot deal with your precious MMO taking a few hits because some people don't buy into it with the same passion that you do, then grab a fucking helmet - welcome to life. Also note that it's always the same individuals that get butthurt when their personal Jesus is getting crucified.

I agree with the notion that GW2 should eventually have one of their final weekends be a preview weekend. Not just because they did this for the original GW, but also because it gives a chance for the people still on the fence and not buying into the hype to get a feel for the game. I was one of those people on the fence, mostly because of the huge shift in class paradigm (I played high level PvP in the original up until before Nightfall. I will never forgive ANet nerfing Boon/Prot). But when they gave us the ability to take max level/skill characters for a whirl in the PvP matches, I could finally get a sense of what they were shooting for. Things like that go far to helping the fence ultimately invest.

BWE was a good initial showing of the game, but I want to see more of what their end goal is. I can play the start of the game any time I like. It's ultimately the tail end that will depend on whether or not you can retain people.

Just hope they stabilize the servers for the next round.

On a related note, as opposed to every other major mmo launch that I was a part of recently, I did not see any GW2 vs. MMO talk rage in chat at all at any point during the weekend. I could just be lucky with my server or oblivious to chat, but I did not see any kind of that talk at all. It was great. This is what happens when you make something that can't be compared to anything else.

I think part of it is the fact that it looks like there are no global channels. John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory was limited quite a bit by this.

Furthermore, survival in this game is not only dictated by your actions, but by the help of your peers. If you're a retarded shit or clueless halfwit... Well, I hope you like playing alone and waypointing home a lot.

[ringthree]

You said there were max level PvP characters, could you use these for max level end-game content? Or was that not available that time? Also, how is PvE progress handled at end-game? I have been told over and over that there will be end-game, but the best explanation I have heard so far is that you get essentially visual enhancements for running a few (though story-wise different) dungeons, over and over.

[The Blackrose]

Max level did not carry over to either the PvE or the WvWvW content. It was only for PvP matches and The Mists (which is the PvP lobby). They unlocked everything for match characters - all skills (including Elites) and trait allotments, with full customization available. They also gave some pretty good equipment. However, they didn't allow you to select your weapons of choice - I wanted to go shortbow over dual pistols, but I made due.

To be honest, the one thing I'm really looking forward to now is WvWvW. It's GW's expanded take on DAoC's RvR system. Granted, it promotes a lot of AOE heavy and zerg tactics, but I thought it captured the old spirit pretty damn well. Thief feels sort of eh in it though - wish Shadowstep or Steal could reach to the top of standard fortifications to change things up a bit.

[Eanae]

I played for free and haven't prepurchased yet. And pvp characters work the same as in gw1. Anything you have for pvp works only in pvp. I have judgement about the game because I've played it. And I was a lot less giddy about it than most. Even after the BWE I still haven't put the $60 down on the game.

[Takiwaki]

I remember specifically saying that there is no "end game" so cut that crap out. There is no race to anywhere you just play the game. There is high level content, that is has a much greater challenge, but you will be doing that stuff early on. Another way of looking at it is endgame starts at level 1.

[Eanae]

Guild wars PVE endgame will continue to be hall of monuments, except it's in the form of achievements now.

[ringthree]

And we've all played the game for 30+ hours this past weekend and have been informed over the past year+ of Arenanets design philosophies and their goals. You have done neither. You are basing everything you say off of your own incorrect assumptions and misconceptions that spawn from the genre's actions over the past decade, and trends that GW2 intentionally sets out to break.

^ my last reply to R3. it just keeps him here. Yes the game is worth your money, trust us. Buy it, or when the time arrives, try the trial. You won't be let down, I promise.

My last reply to you then in return. If you are so confident, after a beta test (your posting history seems to indicate you were just as confident before the beta, but that is neither here nor there) and that I should trust you, will you compensate me for the cost of the game if it fails to live up to the hype? You did promise that I would not be let down.

I wish someone had offered me that deal for SWTOR, that is for sure.

[Takiwaki]

I wish I had that deal for TERA lol

[Eanae]

Tera is a Korean game, all it took was common sense to avoid it. After the aion fiasco, I can never trust a Korean mmo again. :

[ringthree]

I remember specifically saying that there is no "end game" so cut that crap out. There is no race to anywhere you just play the game. There is high level content, that is has a much greater challenge, but you will be doing that stuff early on. Another way of looking at it is endgame starts at level 1.

I am sure you probably don't understand this, but your statement is pretty much completely vacuous to me. I don't know what "crap" to cut out. I assume you are referencing a previous post you have made about the subject, but I have not seen your post, so I don't really know what you are talking about. I really don't know what PvE end-game is about, outside of people suggesting that there was in fact a proper end-game. Now, you have essentially suggested the opposite. What I have heard is different from different people. Would you care to go into the structure of the events and progression?

End-game starts at level 1, doesn't really mean a whole lot. That is what I am trying to say, I guess. The notion that the game play is a compelling story all the way through is great. It is something I would absolutely love. The problem is there IS a level cap, and you need to do something at that level cap. And I got burned on SWTOR with that one.

Guild wars PVE endgame will continue to be hall of monuments, except it's in the form of achievements now.

I assume this is in reference to the original GW, which I did not play. Could you contextualize this for me?

[vrumpt]

I am sure you probably don't understand this, but your statement is pretty much completely vacuous. I don't know what "crap" to cut out. I assume you are referencing a previous post you have made about the subject, but I have not seen your post, so I don't really know what you are talking about. I really don't know what PvE end-game is about, outside of people suggesting that there was in fact a proper end-game. Now, you have essentially suggested the opposite. What I have heard is different from different people. Would you care to go into the structure of the events and progression?

I assume this is in reference to the original GW, which I did not play. Could you contextualize this for me?

here ya go

[Eanae]

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hall_of_Monuments

Tldr it adds a point value to all your achievements, points requiring more and more effort to unlock closer to 50.

[ringthree]

here ya go

I know you are trying to be clever, but I have spent quite a bit of time looking at reviews, statements from Arenanet, forums and blogs on the subject, and I am surprised at the various opinions on the subject. I guess I am looking for more explanation. Especially, from those that are willing to have the patience to explain their understanding. Just on this page alone, there have been several different explanations of GW2 end-game. Maybe GW2 has exploded the notion of end-game altogether?

So... about compensation?

[Eanae]

I know you are trying to be clever, but I have spent quite a bit of time looking at reviews, statements from Arenanet, forums and blogs on the subject, and I am surprised at the various opinions on the subject. I guess I am looking for more explanation. Especially, from those that are willing to have the patience to explain their understanding. Just on this page alone, there have been several different explanations of GW2 end-game. Maybe GW2 has exploded the notion of end-game altogether?

So... about compensation?

Thats the point. There is no single notion of endgame. GW players will without a doubt concentrate on achievements ala HoM as that's what they're used to. Pvpers will pvp and maybe do some esports. Who knows what the general gamer will do. Some level 80 dungeons and some pvp and be done with it? Only time will tell.

[Takiwaki]

I am sure you probably don't understand this, but your statement is pretty much completely vacuous to me. I don't know what "crap" to cut out. . . .

The problem is there IS a level cap, and you need to do something at that level cap.

Right there, see this mentality set by every other mmo? This is the crap that needs to be cut out my friend , why do you need something different at level cap? why not have great content across the board, that you can experience at every level?

Also to note content never gets out-leveled, with the level cap system they are using througout the entire game. So even if you are 80 you can go run a level 30 dungeon or help a friend through a low level storyline and still get your ass handed to you.

This way old content is always viable and because its fun you will go back to it. Not forget it and move on like in other games.

Also there is loot, lots of it to show for you efforts, but compensation starts at level 1.

[Ambrosia]

So... about compensation?

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/1423/angrylyn.gif


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http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6632/abuse.gif


Eventually there should be an open beta so everyone can try it out, but that won't happen till very close to release which isn't at least for a couple of months. And please don't bring SWTOR to the Guild Wars 2 forums.

It isn't...

you know...

*starts to breathe heavily*

It...

isn't very...

*breathes heavier*

Spoiler: show

Heroic™

[ringthree]

Right there, see this mentality set by every other mmo? This is the crap that needs to be cut out my friend , why do you need something different at level cap? why not have great content across the board, that you can experience at every level?

I don't know why not. That's my point, if it is so radically different, could you spend some time explaining the difference, rather than telling me that I am stupid for not understanding the difference? If it is a paradigm shift from all other MMO's, I don't think it's too much to ask for an explanation. If there is no single notion of endgame, could you perhaps give me an example of a "day in the life of a PvE GW2 player"?

I don't find PvP that compelling (in general). It's not something I would log in for. That is why I have kind of avoided that discussion.

As an example, I used to look forward to Salvage, that was the reason I enjoyed playing on days that I did Salvage. I am trying to understand the context for why I would want to log in after 80. What would I look forward to? Would I want to run a dungeon to get that last achievement? Would I log into to do a group event? Dailies? Do stories continue after 80? What don't we know about level 80 content? Etc?

[Eanae]

If you don't enjoy pvp or achievement whoring I honestly wouldn't bother.

[vrumpt]

None of that stuff. Those are all carrot on a stick motivations that don't really exist in gw2. You play to have fun, not to make your numbers bigger. Start thinking outside the box with reasons to keep playing if you are max level.