July patch deployed! (07/23/2012)

[drwaffles]

Lots of people are stupid. Doesn't make the crafter any less of a douche though.

Why is he he a douche? He's probably spent a lot of time and gil to level his craft, so why shouldn't he charge a high price for crafting something that's in very high demand? Makes total sense to me, and 400k is a pittance in today's economy anyway.

[Priran]

Why is he he a douche? He's probably spent a lot of time and gil to level his craft, so why shouldn't he charge a high price for crafting something that's in very high demand? Makes total sense to me, and 400k is a pittance in today's economy anyway.

First off, synergy takes less time and money than any other craft, all you do is stock up on fewell and bust the same set of mats over and over.

Second, "demand" is meaningless without a comparison to "supply" and I'm pretty sure the supply of mouse clicks on a synergy furnace is pretty high too.

Admittedly it still ranks in as less douchey than when crafters would spring a super special magical mystery fee when your synth HQ'd and if you couldn't afford it they'd buy you a NQ and sell your HQ, but the guy is still a douche.

[Tarage]

Kinda shocked that I'm agreeing with Priran. Never thought that day would come.

[Kaisha]

I don't consider him a douche when people seem fine paying that price. It's the same story every update where something desirable comes out that's AHable, people willing to pay a premium to have something day 1.

[Taint]

Sounds like he made a good business decision and profited off of it.....nothing wrong with that what so ever. The buyers either didn't mind spending 400k or didn't have another option that fit their time frame for completion.

Fast,Quality,Cheap: pick 2. It is one of the fundamental rules of business. The Quality is fixed with synergy so your options are fast(now) and expensive (400k) or wait it out and get it cheaper.

[Yugl]

I synergized for free. Ec-c-c-c-c-onomy breaker!

[Michelob]

First off, synergy takes less time and money than any other craft, all you do is stock up on fewell and bust the same set of mats over and over.

Second, "demand" is meaningless without a comparison to "supply" and I'm pretty sure the supply of mouse clicks on a synergy furnace is pretty high too.

Admittedly it still ranks in as less douchey than when crafters would spring a super special magical mystery fee when your synth HQ'd and if you couldn't afford it they'd buy you a NQ and sell your HQ, but the guy is still a douche.

Step 1: Find a crafter.
Step 2: Work out a deal.
Step 3a: Accept deal and pay up or alternatively
Step 3b: Decline deal and start again from step 1.

The guy isn't a douche by any means. Don't like his price? Don't pay him and move on. How hard is this? It is no different from a real world economy besides the fact that anyone with 0 skills and half a brain can make good gil.

[Tarage]

You have no concept of what 'scalping' is do you?

Just because you CAN charge an arm and a leg for something doesn't mean you should.

[Michelob]

And you must not have a very good background in economics, do you? Scalpers technically fall into a different category seeing as they buy things that have a strictly limited supply and then over charge since there is no more supply coming. Staves are not in limited supply as the beads/ores/logs drop like candy in abyssea and voidwatch. If you can charge an arm and a leg for something in FFXI, that means that there must be a large enough demand for it in game that outweighs the current supply. If there was no demand for people getting there staves synergized for 400k then said synergist would be forced to lower their prices.

It's just like everything else in the history of the game: if you want it right away, be prepared to pay a bit extra for it. If 400k is too rich for your blood then wait a few weeks or months. No need to whine about people that make more money than you.

If you don't want to charge more for your goods then by all means cut yourself short, but you are in no position to tell others what they should and shouldn't do in their entrepreneurial dealings. Just accept it and move on.

[Taint]

You have no concept of what 'scalping' is do you?

Just because you CAN charge an arm and a leg for something doesn't mean you should.

The buyers have all the power not the sellers. Don't blame the people maximizing their profit/time. Its simple economics. If you think its too much don't buy it. The same can be said about each and every item in the game.

There is a margin in every transaction you make in the game or out. The smart people are getting a cut, the rest work for the smart guy getting a cut.

[Mojo]

Lol, so wrong. Whether the buyer or seller has more pricing power depends on supply and demand. The situation that's occurring now in which demand is so high that sellers are able to charge seemingly ridiculous prices for a service that comes with very little to not risk is the definition of a seller's market. In time when the supply vs demand ratio has settled down a bit, the buyer may have more pricing power, but for now much of it is in the hands of the sellers not buyers.

[Septimus]

Lol, so wrong. Whether the buyer or seller has more pricing power depends on supply and demand. The situation that's occurring now in which demand is so high that sellers are able to charge seemingly ridiculous prices for a service that comes with very little to not risk is the definition of a seller's market. In time when the supply vs demand ratio has settled down a bit, the buyer may have more pricing power, but for now much of it is in the hands of the sellers not buyers.

In this case, it is on the buyer in the end. People could just say "screw it" and wait a few days because paying that much is ridiculous. (We managed to live with 8 staves for several years now, an extra week wouldn't kill anyone.) Or find a friend with synergy skill to help. Or use that gil that they would have paid someone else to make it to level up their own Synergy.

[Mojo]

No. All you're essentially saying is that they can wait until the economy changes from a seller's market to a buyer's market or become a seller or take advantage of nepotism. That does not give them pricing power. If you're going to call out someone for not knowing simple economics, the least you can do is apply simple economic terms in the correct way.

[Septimus]

No. All you're essentially saying is that they can wait until the economy changes from a seller's market to a buyer's market or become a seller or take advantage of nepotism. That does not give them pricing power. If you're going to call out someone for not knowing simple economics, the least you can do is apply simple economic terms in the correct way.

It was only a seller's markets because the buyers were short-sighted. Could anyone get away with charging more than 100,000 for staff four days after the patch? No, you probably couldn't get away with charging that much.

This isn't economics, it is just how the world works. I may not understand economic terms, but I do understand people being gullible lemmings running out to buy the latest iPhone and paying gobs of extra money that it isn't worth when they could just wait for the price to come down and make due with something that is out already that does essentially the same thing with less doodads and glitz.

[Mojo]

Those are the reasons for the sellers market sure, and although you can't say with certainty what the market will be like tomorrow, I would agree with your prediction. When it comes to perceived value though, to each his own. There's a certain satisfaction of having the latest shiny thing that is worth more than 400k to some people (although I wouldn't rush out to buy the newest iPhone.) Knowing how to reap the benefits of those situations can lead to good profit either way. I wouldn't say any of the people who do it are douchebags, just clever and motivated. I knew a dude who prebought all of the Astral Rings he could when they said they were removing them from coffers in Castle Oztroja. He made 20M doing that, which was a lot at the time.

[Tarage]

Turns out I think Apple is wrong for doing what they do as well. Just because you CAN overcharge the shit out of things doesn't make it right. Supply and demand and capitalism doesn't suddenly take the moral aspect out of being a douche.

[drwaffles]

Turns out I think Apple is wrong for doing what they do as well. Just because you CAN overcharge the shit out of things doesn't make it right. Supply and demand and capitalism doesn't suddenly take the moral aspect out of being a douche.

It's unrealistic to expect sellers to always take full moral responsibility for the misguided actions of buyers in a free market, that's just not how it works. At some point the buyer has a responsibility to make the correct decisions. That's not to say that sellers should never be held accountable for their actions, far from it. But in this instance and in the case of Apple we're talking about luxury items bought by people who can afford them and are desperate to get in on the action. In my book that means it's up to the buyers to make smart choices. If we're talking about sellers taking advantage of people who don't have a lot of money and are purchasing important stuff (such as insurance or living essentials) then it's reasonable to hold sellers morally accountable if they're ripping people off.

If people are willing to throw their money away on non-essential goods that's their choice.

[Spira]

Turns out I think Apple is wrong for doing what they do as well. Just because you CAN overcharge the shit out of things doesn't make it right. Supply and demand and capitalism doesn't suddenly take the moral aspect out of being a douche.

but it kind does.
the whole premise of capitalism is providing goods/services for profit. thus, overcharging is not just desired, it is necessary for the system to work. If they're breaking even or making a loss, it simply won't even happen.

the capitalist model is essentially the only thing that drives mmorpg economy and FFXI's auction house is one of the best examples of this. it doesn't matter who is the price-taker, but typically its always the buyer because if the seller isn't making at least normal profit for doing it, he's not going to, unless he's just being stupid or doing a favor / charity work.
at the same time, it is always the buyer who makes the decision to buy. in the case of FFXI and gear, its a relatively free market and there is nothing that forces people to buy gear so they can always make the decision not to. they don't have to.

[arus2001]

My main beef with XI's economy was that it only takes a few irresponsible/impatient people to ruin it for everyone else. From the buyer perspective, it could mean overpaying on something and setting the price for some unforeseeable amount of time. From the crafter perspective, it could be you selling NQs at break even, only for some jackass who bulk synthed plummeting those into deep loss to the point that even unreliable HQs might not be a profit anymore. And rarely is that something that can be fixed in any appreciable time frame.

I remember the days where you'd need to farm thousands of beehive chips or other little shit to buy a haubergeon. That didn't make a fun game. In fact, rare is it that I'd say a free economy makes an MMO enjoyable, and FFXI lacks the "soulbound" element that at least prolongs item value in other games. True, some may enjoy playing the market, often getting lucky in the process if a patch happens to dump the next set of in-demand in their craft, but if such was something everyone could do, then obviously it wouldn't be profitable. That's why I tend to roll my eyes at people who say making money is easy in FFXI. Too often there's a caveat to it, like having multiple accounts or pooling resources with others in selling ADL drops or something. A vast majority of the items in this game are simply garbage right now, and not even everyone can cruor burn at the same rate of effectiveness and time to really justify some inflationary prices set by those who, well, can.

And while that lack of fairness may mirror reality, in more of a practical setting, identifying lacking fairness in a game has a bad habit of sucking the fun out of it for those not benefiting. And in the case of something like Neo-Nyzul, can lead people to further bending/breaking the rules if it means getting what they want/need.

[Cesaria]

Meh if the price is too high and I can't find a friendly crafter - I can wait. Things like this with a decent supply will sink to a sensible level as soon as the "oooh shiny" effect wears off a bit.

Actually no, we're going to staple our pet woodworker to a synergy furnace and not let him leave till he levels synergy enough to craft it.