What's Better? The Gear Choice Thread

[Grey Jorildyn]

Since a lot of people ask questions about gear choices lately, and someone suggested this ought to be a thread, we probably need a sticky for it. Can a mod help us out with that?

This thread is to be used for asking questions related to what gear is better when, where, and why.

Off-topic posts are prohibited and will result in 30 lashings (or whatever the mods decide; I'm just a lowly poster).

Post up!

[Raldo]

I'll start!

I'm looking at Bard belts, given that I can't buy that Ul'dah sash! Which of these is better, or are they different enough that it doesn't matter?

Veteran's Field Belt (STR+2 Acc+5)
Explorer's Belt (Crit Rate+12)
Something Else?

[Niiro]

Unless you're having accuracy trouble (and on BRD you rarely will be), explorer's.

[thefathousecat]

Vet's because Crit. Rate sucks and BRD doesn't rely heavily on Crit. for DPS anyways. Scarlet Sash is a good alternative if you're having trouble with PIE cap.

[shepardG]

I like this thread, prepare for questions when I get home

[Hiroishime]

Which will perform better full enmity set (HDLs) or STR/MND equips on PLD? want to see if its worth it to invest on stuff like triple melds MND head or double STR/MND on skirmish sword.

[Grey Jorildyn]

"performs better" is tough to gauge. When you cannot deal damage to a mob, like chimera, i find HDL blows other options out of the water. When trying to zerg shit for <17m runs, I also find HDL outperforms DPS set. Honestly I haven't personally found any end game mobs where HDzl does not do better but that is the nature of how I must tank to keep aggro from my LS blms and mnks.

On the OFs some will argue for str/mnd set or hybrid sets. I don't have a comprehensive set for dps however anytime I've tried to downgrade my enmity for more def or hp than what HDL offers, suddenly I cannot hold hate. We're talking a point of dps riding the line with my full HDL set so lackig any enmity bonus just doesn't cut it. That said, on ifrit extreme I've found it easy to tank with just HDL hands since dps damage is very reduced.

This question is very hard to answer without knowing your party makeup, the target mob, and the situation. There is no one-fits-all PLD setup. You can use HDL in all situations but it isn't always optimal ie. you will generate too much enmity unnecessarily/could have been throwing more damage at it, stuff like that.

[Hiroishime]

I guess i might be talking in abit more general manner, lets see umm.. will flat blade/ws spam with 330str 310mnd on Missser outdo enm+200 setup?

[solracht]

Enmity talk at the bottom:

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s15/s...ba9d11a2516c77

He didn't list sources for the enmity section (or I'm blind) but I know I've seen half of the text from that section in some testing threads, so it should be right.

[Izodius]

Enmity talk at the bottom:

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s15/s...ba9d11a2516c77

He didn't list sources for the enmity section (or I'm blind) but I know I've seen half of the text from that section in some testing threads, so it should be right.

That was my thread from my linkshell's website - I certainly didn't mean for it to go much further than there, but I am decently confident in the math. Nice to see all credit other than the credit that I gave to others has been stripped from it (sorry for the snark, I fully realize you probably just evernoted it for your own personal use and it was the link you had handy). That thread was mostly a compilation thread for people new to endgame and really shouldn't be taken as any sort of law - I wrote the enmity section with limited maths and testing solely based on others testing. I'm fairly confident but I'd love some collaborators and I solicited feedback in the stats thread.

The enmity data is from Kaeko/Sieken's testing (as far as the value of enmity and regards to enmity by ability - I should have sourced those my apologies).

I probably jumped to an unfair conclusion on PLD since I completely forgot about the WS enmity boost (MND is going to be significantly more threat than VIT is for warrior). It was largely written for WAR, PLD math get's slightly more complicated due to the MND Enmity boost to weaponskills as well as their damage - although I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the numbers weren't far off. It's also assuming a snapshot - the Auto-attack and ability numbers weren't calculated as I was just trying to disprove the odd unfounded lodestone theory that "+enmity is worthless" at the time; that said, you cap AA damage from stats quickly (other than from Attack Power which doesn't cap) and abilities are static enmity gains, that are ONLY boosted by +enmity (and some pieces of AF which function as +enmity like WAR AF helm). So AA damage and abilities favor enmity (although straight AtkPwr could certainly be a contender, AP from STR almost assuredly isn't given the gains are so small).

The spreadsheet just maths out for warrior which gives better gains (assumes under stat caps) by item slot for Weaponskills at various damage levels. It doesn't take into consideration the boost PLD gets on enmity via MND - nor AA or abilities (which again should almost always go to enmity, or AP, but would likely never go to primary stats since you cap AA damage pretty early via STR/VIT/MND - and abilities enmity is ONLY raised by +enmity, or abilities are a % gain to enmity which ends as kind of a net/net of dmg vs enmty probably favoring damage).

The take away should be balance. Enmity is stronger the higher your DPS is, and it scales incredibly well - whereas straight damage doesn't. That should be a logical assumption given it's a percentage gain. It's usually much easier to increase your enmity by 1% than it is your damage by 1% (once you have gear that's halfway decent; +1% dmg is easy when you're naked) - especially against high-end mobs - but that will vary from slot to slot item to item.

To answer his specific question above we need more data - how much physical damage is the combo doing to the mob in question? Then we calculate how much enmity is generated by the combo (which is harder for PLD since they have the MND modifier, but not impossible). Then you start taking away STR / MND and scaling it against Enmity.

Then it can be mathed out. My issue with the question is that it's all or nothing - which generally the answer is "no" to - neither would be optimal.

The question should be: "is x STR/ y MND / z Attk Power with weapon skills at this average damage better than a STR / b MND / c Atk Pwer and d Enmity with weaponskills at this average damage against this particular mob?" ; it ends up being pretty specific which kind of sucks for gear comparisons, but it's the only fair way to answer the question - otherwise it's just simply conjecture and guesstimates.

In the above question it's moreso does hitting the assumed STR/MND cap increase my overall damage by more than 20%? Since 200 enmity is 20% more enmity, and gives gains to AA and Abilities. I simply don't know the answer there - I don't have PLD to cap and haven't done any testing on it whatsoever. My gut is that the enmity will be stronger but I could easily be wrong - the right answer is there's a balance, and there is an intersect somewhere that could be mathed out with enough time and energy.

You'd also be talking about straight threat only. I realize PLD damage is far lower than WAR damage, but the quicker the mob dies the better, and tank damage isn't completely inconsequential (at least not nearly as inconsequential as it was in FF11) - it's still damage.

More testing certainly needs to be done.

[sackings]

Not really a gear related question but...

whats better for hate: fully buffed howling fist + collusion + quelling strike, or the same thing sans quelling strike? which is better for enmity?

I guess the real question is does Quelling Strike affect the amount of enmity transferred via collusion

[solracht]

(sorry for the snark, I fully realize you probably just evernoted it for your own personal use and it was the link you had handy).

Link came from here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post775619

I just bookmarked it since it had so much stuff in it.

[Churchill]

Save your quelling strike for Dragon Kick if you're collusioned.

[Raldo]

I guess the real question is does Quelling Strike affect the amount of enmity transferred via collusion

No testing has been done, to my knowledge, but I would assume they affect each other. Seems silly to ever use them together.

[Niiro]

Save your quelling strike for Dragon Kick if you're collusioned.

If you're collusioned why would you be using quelling strike at all....

Also, why would you use it in DK rather than HF, DK is usually less damage.

[Hiroishime]

Maybe he meant save qualling strike for Dragon kick if your HF is collusioned.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Quelling Strike just removes a flat amount of enmity so it doesn't matter if you use it with HF or DK. You will lose out on the TP gains doing it with DK I believe.

[Niiro]

Maybe he meant save qualling strike for Dragon kick if your HF is collusioned.

Ah.

[Niiro]

Maybe he meant save qualling strike for Dragon kick if your HF is collusioned.

Ah, that would make sense.

Quelling Strike just removes a flat amount of enmity so it doesn't matter if you use it with HF or DK. You will lose out on the TP gains doing it with DK I believe.

I can't say with any certainty off hand, but why would you not get TP using quelling with DK?

[Grey Jorildyn]

You will, but I think you will get less. Correct me if I am remembering wrong, but using QS with a melee attack generates more TP than in a multi-hit weapon skill. I seem to remember that it was better to use it with Light Shot than in Barrage and I think the same applied for other multi-hit attacks.