GW2 Random Class Discussion: Shiyo Knows Best edition

[Kuishen]

I keep telling you because it keeps working (for now). Spam heartseeker, cloak and recover initiative, then heartseeker again.

I really don't want to be that guy and would actually like to learn how to play my class. @_@

[ClarkSammich]

heartseeker sucks
cloak and dagger is best thief damage skill
use hidden killer + patience + shadows embrace and cloak and dagger, never die, give no fucks about conditions
also spamming cluster bomb point blank might be better than both
etc, etc.

[Kuishen]

heartseeker sucks
cloak and dagger is best thief damage skill
use hidden killer + patience + shadows embrace and cloak and dagger, never die, give no fucks about conditions
also spamming cluster bomb point blank might be better than both
etc, etc.

Wow that shit is fucking FUN. Doesn't seem like I'm doing quite enough damage but you're right I am fucking hard to kill and annoying as fuck. Using Pistol/Dagger cause the bleed and ranged on pistol auto-attack is very nice and does a barrage of 5 shots when I come out of stealth. I was pretty much on equal grounds with a guardian that seemed to be pure defense, in a match early on with like no people we sat there running circles around each other for a good 5 minutes because she couldn't really hit me but I wasn't doing enough damage to kill her.

Thanks for that, will definitely need to practice this but that is exactly the kind of shit I wanted when I chose Thief as my main.

EDIT: What kind of utility skills are you running cause I'm running Shadow Trap, Infiltrator's Signet and Signet of Agility, and was using Thieves Guild as my Elite for extra damage and another way to make the enemy lose track of me (seemed to complement this build) but the recast on it is brutal so probably switching that out to Basilisk Venom.

[Rhyis.]

I tried DW sword w/ condition dmg stack, but found myself lacking proper utility and defense. After getting an upgraded Hammer, I messed around and made a new build. This is what I got:

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#...gRx0x0ackVoaqV

The goal is to spam CC and hold your adrenaline instead of spending it. With health regen signet, adrenaline level regen, and a regen potion, I rarely feel threatened. Couple the regen with the armor/toughness bonuses and the endure pain proc, and you'll feel very safe. Juggernaut + dmg reduc. signet are for pesky CC heavy enemies. Adrenaline is only spent on emergencies (interrupt important spell or to escape). Aoe Cripple and kite if you get low. I usually carry a rifle for secondary in case kiting becomes necessary. If you're a warrior, try this out. Any criticism is welcome.

Looks like a solid dungeon build. Weakness almost always up would definitely help with survival.

[LidenbokValour]

Any decent Engineer PvE and PvP builds floating around?

[Ohemgee]

Conditional damage vs Power from lv 60 and up.

I think I may be doing it wrong, or its just my style of playing (PVE / dungeons). [Note: I use staff almost exclusively]

I dinged 60 today, bought my manual, and dumped 30 points in to Earth IV VIII VII (III for dungeons) (10 fire - V, 10 air - VI). I tend to solo a lot and I've found that conditional damage (bleeds from earth magic, burns from the critical damage and gylphs/signets) really destroy groups of targets as I started to reach 50.

I was able to literally Power my way through 1-50 without swapping from Fire (lava, nuke, lava nuke), but this started to really become a detriment for higher level mobs and I had to swap attunements to finish off normal mobs for the lack of defensive abilities (it sounds obvious, but thats not the point).

I've completely switched from absolutely focusing on Power/Precision to have primary focuses on Earth/Conditional damage, precision and power (I still have more power than everything). At level 60 and with the gear that I have, my conditional damage is at 605, my traits increase the bleed duration by 20% + my gear adds an additional 20%, and my rune on my staff has a 45% chance on crit to bleed for 4s (+40% or is that not counted) + 5% damage done to bleeding enemies.

What I'm trying to ask is, although I could nuke shitty quest mobs down easily, how important is conditional damage vs power for elementalists for dunegons and other PVE fights? I do swap attunements for longer fights (because I can use one Eruption that bleeds 5000 damage over 14s, swap to a different Attunement, and place those aoe skills on the ground and make it back in time to literally reapply the dot give or take 3s).

I respec in WvW and PvP because Power > Conditional damage (everyone uses a cleanse).

[ClarkSammich]

What kind of utility skills are you running cause I'm running Shadow Trap, Infiltrator's Signet and Signet of Agility, and was using Thieves Guild as my Elite for extra damage and another way to make the enemy lose track of me (seemed to complement this build) but the recast on it is brutal so probably switching that out to Basilisk Venom.

I use blinding powder, shadow refuge, and signet of shadows nearly 100% of the time. By no means are these the only options, you can do sompretty cool stuff with scorpion wire + caltrops combo, or ambush trap + triple venom, etc. Also, cloak and dagger should always be doing a heaving shit ton of damage if you position properly. The first hit is fairly hefty, and the second if landed from behind is enormous.

[Icarian]

Basically what I've been using, slot skills aside (30/30/0/0/10 for me). Just keep mobile and most things shouldn't be TOO dangerous outside of bosses.

What skill do you put in the third Strength slot? I can't see anything really useful other than Great Fortitude for sword/axe

Edit: Okay. I'm sure I'm doing something terribly wrong, perhaps because I'm doing the same I do with a GS, but sword/axe doesn't seem all that good for PvE, GS does way more damage, I can group 3-5 mobs and kill them with Hundred blades, whirliwind and 2 swings and I barely get hurt, with sword/axe I kill them way too slow, sitting there doing 1-2k swings with the occasional whirlwind axe when it's up instead of the 7-9k hundred blades and 4-5k whirlwinds, which have like 1/3 the CD. I end up getting killed a lot more because I take much more time to kill things :/

[Eanae]

Sword/Axe is probably really dungeon only. I'm working right now on trying to figure out a balanced dungeon set up gear wise that doesn't get me flattened in seconds. My talent layout at the moment is 20/30/20/0/0 with greatsword and rifle and I'm thinking of keeping the same basic build but switching to sword/mace for a little extra cc and going a decent mix of all stats instead of slamming on just one affix like I've been doing.

[niwaar]

Conditional damage vs Power from lv 60 and up.

I think I may be doing it wrong, or its just my style of playing (PVE / dungeons). [Note: I use staff almost exclusively]

I dinged 60 today, bought my manual, and dumped 30 points in to Earth IV VIII VII (III for dungeons) (10 fire - V, 10 air - VI). I tend to solo a lot and I've found that conditional damage (bleeds from earth magic, burns from the critical damage and gylphs/signets) really destroy groups of targets as I started to reach 50.

I was able to literally Power my way through 1-50 without swapping from Fire (lava, nuke, lava nuke), but this started to really become a detriment for higher level mobs and I had to swap attunements to finish off normal mobs for the lack of defensive abilities (it sounds obvious, but thats not the point).

I've completely switched from absolutely focusing on Power/Precision to have primary focuses on Earth/Conditional damage, precision and power (I still have more power than everything). At level 60 and with the gear that I have, my conditional damage is at 605, my traits increase the bleed duration by 20% + my gear adds an additional 20%, and my rune on my staff has a 45% chance on crit to bleed for 4s (+40% or is that not counted) + 5% damage done to bleeding enemies.

What I'm trying to ask is, although I could nuke shitty quest mobs down easily, how important is conditional damage vs power for elementalists for dunegons and other PVE fights? I do swap attunements for longer fights (because I can use one Eruption that bleeds 5000 damage over 14s, swap to a different Attunement, and place those aoe skills on the ground and make it back in time to literally reapply the dot give or take 3s).

I respec in WvW and PvP because Power > Conditional damage (everyone uses a cleanse).

Question, what is your sitting at? If you have anything less than around 40% your staff's rune and your crit=burn traits are both really being wasted the vast majority of the time. You have 2 abilities to stack bleed and it sounds like you are not taking full advantage of Eruption as it is if you are cycling through. Staff also has 2 skills that can burn. However Burning Retreat means your foe is right up on top of you.

In short, condition damage builds are awesome, however if your crit is as low as I may guess it is, you are not gaining full use of your +condition damage and modifiers on your bleeds. Condition damage is all about stacking your bleeds and keeping burn on your target as much as possible. With low crit and cycling through attunements for 13s before coming back to drop another 6 stacks of bleed on your enemy you are not maximizing your damage. Sure they are large bleed stacks but the more the better and Eruption has a 6second CD.

I may be talking out of my ass, but without the needed crit to make your build viable you should be looking at changing your weapon choice. Scepter seems to be a much better choice for a condition heavy build. With multiple easy to drop burns as well as a quick stacking bleeder (even if its base damage is less it stacks higher and much faster).

Not to say you can not have a condition heavy build with staff, I just do not see it highly viable at 60 where gear and other traits do not synergize with its requirements.

[dabis]

I use blinding powder, shadow refuge, and signet of shadows nearly 100% of the time. By no means are these the only options, you can do sompretty cool stuff with scorpion wire + caltrops combo, or ambush trap + triple venom, etc. Also, cloak and dagger should always be doing a heaving shit ton of damage if you position properly. The first hit is fairly hefty, and the second if landed from behind is enormous.

What stats are you focusing on gear for that set? Do you build some toughness/vitality into the build for when you get hit between stealth, or do you just focus on the damage stats for larger damage cloak combos?

[Kuishen]

What stats are you focusing on gear for that set? Do you build some toughness/vitality into the build for when you get hit between stealth, or do you just focus on the damage stats for larger damage cloak combos?

Gear for me is mainly power and crit damage and it works just fine, I almost broke 4k with a critical yesterday. The traitline you use to get the build he suggested gives you plenty of Toughness, but there's always room for more since if somebody is indeed going glass cannon and they manage to get the jump you it will hurt.

[Imitarate]

I've been iffy with sword/axe lately; it's really dependent on condition damage, and I don't have enough room to stock up in Strength for my build yet at 40 [e] to increase bleed durations, obviously. I'm considering, honestly, going to sword/sword for the ranged bleed on 4 (with a fun secondary move!) and block on 5 (with another bleed), but I'm mostly using /axe to help build up a lot of Adrenaline quickly for another round of sword Burst. Rifle has been amazing with this setup though, especially keeping might and fury up so much with rifle 2, FGJ, bolas, and rage signet.

[e] of course, going /sword limits my aoe damage to basically autoattack and burst, so I doubt I'll stick with that.

[Ohemgee]

Question, what is your sitting at? If you have anything less than around 40% your staff's rune and your crit=burn traits are both really being wasted the vast majority of the time. You have 2 abilities to stack bleed and it sounds like you are not taking full advantage of Eruption as it is if you are cycling through. Staff also has 2 skills that can burn. However Burning Retreat means your foe is right up on top of you.

In short, condition damage builds are awesome, however if your crit is as low as I may guess it is, you are not gaining full use of your +condition damage and modifiers on your bleeds. Condition damage is all about stacking your bleeds and keeping burn on your target as much as possible. With low crit and cycling through attunements for 13s before coming back to drop another 6 stacks of bleed on your enemy you are not maximizing your damage. Sure they are large bleed stacks but the more the better and Eruption has a 6second CD.

I may be talking out of my ass, but without the needed crit to make your build viable you should be looking at changing your weapon choice. Scepter seems to be a much better choice for a condition heavy build. With multiple easy to drop burns as well as a quick stacking bleeder (even if its base damage is less it stacks higher and much faster).

Not to say you can not have a condition heavy build with staff, I just do not see it highly viable at 60 where gear and other traits do not synergize with its requirements.

I'm 71 now

But I'm assuming the missing stat you were asking for was critical. My critical is at around 47% - Condition damage 810ish - Bleed duration 20 (trait) + 15 (rune). And I think thats exactly what I've started to do (for non-trash mobs) with my staff:

Start out with Eruption (6500 bleed per cast is sick) -> Button 5 (immobilize + bleed) -> Fire, -> Button 3 -> Burning retreat -> Lava pit directly in front of my path -> Nuke and switch back to earth and repeat.

Trash mobs for crafting mats I go full fire + power gear, there's no reason to fuck with bleeds if they die quickly.

As far as Scepter vs Staff, i'll have to look in to that now and get gear for 70+. I thought it wasn't a lot of conditional damage at first, but i'll see how it goes.

[ClarkSammich]

What stats are you focusing on gear for that set? Do you build some toughness/vitality into the build for when you get hit between stealth, or do you just focus on the damage stats for larger damage cloak combos?

I use power/precision/toughness. What little vitality I get is gained from the practiced tolerance trait. Also I use this in PVE and WvW, not sPVP.

Also, I'm now under the impression that the hidden killer trait is a bit of a crutch and heartseeker/death blossom will surpass cloak and dagger in damage once certain gear requirements are met.
The value of 100% crit from stealth is depreciated as you add more precision, probably to the point where +20% damage to enemies under 50% hp will be better. At which point, spamming heartseeker like every other derp you see probably is the best option. Death blossom is also pretty enticing because of its pretty dope scaling with condition damage, as well as the hard evade you get. The main problem with death blossom is bleed capping at 25 stacks, so it loses usefulness in dynamic events, and potentially dungeons if you have someone focusing on condition damage.

I dunno, I'll probably post once I get geared a bit better and figure some shit out, been busy leveling engineer and necromancer lately.

[Kuishen]

I use power/precision/toughness. What little vitality I get is gained from the practiced tolerance trait. Also I use this in PVE and WvW, not sPVP.

Also, I'm now under the impression that the hidden killer trait is a bit of a crutch and heartseeker/death blossom will surpass cloak and dagger in damage once certain gear requirements are met.
The value of 100% crit from stealth is depreciated as you add more precision, probably to the point where +20% damage to enemies under 50% hp will be better. At which point, spamming heartseeker like every other derp you see probably is the best option. Death blossom is also pretty enticing because of its pretty dope scaling with condition damage, as well as the hard evade you get. The main problem with death blossom is bleed capping at 25 stacks, so it loses usefulness in dynamic events, and potentially dungeons if you have someone focusing on condition damage.

I dunno, I'll probably post once I get geared a bit better and figure some shit out, been busy leveling engineer and necromancer lately.

It works really well in sPvP too then, as long as your team isn't being fuckwits. Definitely needs some support. When I have a good team that is willing to work with me I'm always top player, when the team is terrible and moving as one solid pack and not capturing points like I generally do then I'm the worst player on the team.

[ClarkSammich]

It works really well in sPvP too then, as long as your team isn't being fuckwits. Definitely needs some support. When I have a good team that is willing to work with me I'm always top player, when the team is terrible and moving as one solid pack and not capturing points like I generally do then I'm the worst player on the team.

I've pretty much stopped playing sPVP because of those fuckwits. I don't have a headset, or people to even use voice chat with during it, so it's agony. Getting stomped every tournament round simply due to better communication from the other team is no fun.

[Rhyis.]

Teamwork stems directly from communication. Just saying.

[Alderaan]

Thieves that stack precision and power and + crit annoy the fuck out of me. It's all the gear they buy from our guilds crafters and we just shake our heads. They die so fucking fast it's ridiculous. I see them out in WvW with these specs from other servers as well while our rangers that stack defensive and myself can 2v10 these idiots.

[ClarkSammich]

people who don't build defenses die quickly
that' some profound shit right there