TPP - yet more internet shackling IP legislation.

[ronin sparthos]

oh my bad, I forgot about all the huge copyright law issues we had before napster

I had almost completely forgotten about that guy that got arrested with thousands of recorded tv shows on videotapes he wasn't selling or trading or anything.

Technology evolves. Instead of adapting to changing media the sponsors of such bills/agreements want to constrain the entire industry to fit their exceedingly narrow view of how things should work to maintain maximum profit. Good for them but bad for everyone else and more so for those with additional costs heaped upon them when they have to go combing for a potential copyright violation.

What you seem to fail grasp is that regardless of how much pirating going on, the powers that be will do anything to prevent themselves from adapting to the current situation. We've had this conversation before when SOPA was all the rage and the very same arguments are going to arise here: Trying to constrain piracy is going to do more harm that it will good especially when viable business models have been developed in spite of piracy.

You could go further and say that the very organizations that are crying foul about piracy have seen gains due to the trend. Don't assume that only the end users are getting benefits out of easily accessible, free media.

[hey]

But it wouldn't be nearly this insanely overbearing and ridiculous if people weren't stealing billions of dollars of IP every single day.

Yes it would be. And it hardly matters how much is being "stolen", if it cannot even be proven that that aren't better off as a result.

And, it's retarded as hell for people to sit around complaining about copyright laws knowing full well that they're going to steal as much as they can as long as it's possible.

You do understand that copyright goes beyond just wanting free stuff, right? Like how it stifles innovation, results in books being banned, etc?

you realize you just tried to imply I was dumb for arguing that stand your ground laws were a really really bad thing a few days *BEFORE* the trayvon martin shit, right?

and that every single person that argued against me there has looked stupid as fuck ever since...

No, you're still really dumb for saying you'd just stand there and let someone kill you, before you'd fight back.

[Plow]

Technology evolves. Instead of adapting to changing media the sponsors of such bills/agreements want to constrain the entire industry to fit their exceedingly narrow view of how things should work to maintain maximum profit. Good for them but bad for everyone else and more so for those with additional costs heaped upon them when they have to go combing for a potential copyright violation.

What you seem to fail grasp is that regardless of how much pirating going on, the powers that be will do anything to prevent themselves from adapting to the current situation. We've had this conversation before when SOPA was all the rage and the very same arguments are going to arise here: Trying to constrain piracy is going to do more harm that it will good especially when viable business models have been developed in spite of piracy.

You could go further and say that the very organizations that are crying foul about piracy have seen gains due to the trend. Don't assume that only the end users are getting benefits out of easily accessible, free media.

just like they did everything they could to prevent VHS and audio cassettes...

and then completely stopped giving a fuck when it turned out people weren't going to start stealing and trading them on a massive level

No, you're still really dumb for saying you'd just stand there and let someone kill you, before you'd fight back.

Yeah, not only is that exactly what I said

Personally, I'd rather die than have to live with having gone all mortal kombat on some 16 year old kid.

But turn the other cheek is also apparently a "really dumb" philosophy.

Especially when you're attempting to exaggerate getting in a fight into kill or be killed.


And no, I don't give a fuck what excuses you've given yourself to attempt to not feel bad about being a thief.

[hey]

And no, I don't give a fuck what excuses you've given yourself to attempt to not feel bad about being a thief.

By no definition of the word, am i thief.

[Churchill]

Turn the other cheek is fine.

Being a fucking pussy isn't.

[Jer]

Being alive trumps being dead any day.

If I happen to find something I like, I buy it. If I don't, delete it and move on. People who put out shit that nobody in their right mind would buy if they had fore-knowledge of the product should be the ones who feel bad.

[Cantih]

Copyright law will never stop being extended as long as Disney is an entity and Mickey Mouse is a character.

Gentlemen, we now have a mission.

LET'S KILL MICKEY MOUSE!

[MaachaQ]

Yes it would be. And it hardly matters how much is being "stolen", if it cannot even be proven that that aren't better off as a result.

The Anime industry in the US largely would not exist without the fans who used to import Laserdiscs from Japan back in the "old days" and create a market for shows by creating English translations and providing copies FOR FREE to other fans. Not pictured in my extensive DVD collection is the massive collection of VHS/SVHS tapes I accumulated and used to copy and distribute. Back in the old days people would provide me with a video tape (or money to buy said video tape) and I would copy whatever they wanted for no cost, only with a request that they no longer copy the video for others once there was a US version produced and if they liked the show to please buy the US version on its release. A law like the one proposed could quite possibly criminalize Cosplay and Fanart, two of the staples of Anime fandom that are basically free advertising for the company that may release a US version. Many US companies even now wait to license shows until they see how popular the fansubbed videos become, with torrents being much easier to judge popularity than VHS tapes being traded through the mail used to be. Yes, the Anime industry in the US is struggling, but so is just about every industry. It is arguable that Anime is doing better than many other forms of entertainment, due to the popularity of "goods" that can be sold online and at conventions to fans.

note: a large number of the DVDs I own are of shows which I had previously owned as VHS fansubs and probably never would have heard of had someone not traded me the show for another show.

[Uzor]

RIAA, music movie industry etc. are a bunch of old moneygobbling fucktards.

It's like evolution. If you can't learn to adapt you die out. They need to adapt and evolve their business plan, not hold everyone else back just because "they like the old times". Look at Spotify, Netflix or, in a way, Steam. The population wants easy access to what they want. By illegally downloading something you can get it at the push of a button.

Also, they need to learn how to make quality stuff. If a game is bad, it's bad. It shouldn't be overpriced, then people will just download it. They also need to learn to release stuff for cinema simultaneously across the world. If the movie is out on Blu-Ray in America before it even hits the big screen in Europe, people aren't going to pay $20 for a cinema ticket to watch it, they'll just download it.

[Meresgi]

Where are the hard facts that billions are being "stolen" from IPs from people? I'm sure they are "losing" a lot of money, but for most people who pirate things like games/movies they wouldn't go see them or buy them anyways. These people see it as a loss of a sale, which is true in some cases..but it's not in a lot of others. Just because guy A pirated a copy of Call of Duty to play the single player, doesn't mean there's 1 less copy now at Gamestop when Guy B goes there to purchase a legit copy.

If you don't consider EVERY pirated copy as a lost sale, because it's not, then you have a much smaller number. Also what about the people who might pirate a game or movie a few times because they deleted it, then downloaded it again a year later and so on?

What about the people who own the movie on DVD but want it on their computer and just download it instead of dealing with the "digital copy" shit on dvds/blue-rays nowadays, or maybe they own a VHS version of an old movie like Lion King or something and want a dvd copy for their kids to watch since they don't have a VCR anymore, I guess they should pay double because??????

As far as music goes, some music you can't even purchase such as theatrical soundtracks or crazy foreign bands no one has ever heard of. Most musicians though seem to be going the route of selling their songs per song, online and are making good money because people don't want to buy an entire album if they only like 2-3 songs by that artist.

There are far easier and better ways to stem piracy because you'll never prevent it. Steam does a great job just by offering large bundle discounts, indie games and sales. If I don't have to drop $60 on a game i'm not 100% sure on and instead only need to drop $30, I really don't mind that at all. Especially since it's a digital copy and I know it can't get scratched or broken. Then you have fuckers like EA who think they should sell digital goods at the same price as physical goods because OMG MONIES, which drives customers away and makes a lot of pirates out of them. Same shit for movies, when people see a fun summer movie, pay $12 for a ticket to go see it and it is utter pandering garbage, the next time they see a trailer for a similar movie they are just going to pirate it, because you cant trust critic reviews and you still have that experience of the shit moving looming over you.


Obviously the fucking industry isn't hurting THAT BADLY or they couldnt afford their army of lobbyists and 2nd and 3rd vacation homes in areas most of us will never even visit. Reminds me of that South Park where the kids learn that some rapper can't buy a gold swimming pool for his kid or some shit.

[hey]

I'm sure they are "losing" a lot of money

You can't possibly be sure of that. There is no conclusive evidence that piracy isn't hugely profitable for these companies.

[Meresgi]

You can't possibly be sure of that. There is no conclusive evidence that piracy isn't hugely profitable for these companies.

Why can't I be sure? Why would these companies and lobbyists lie to us?

[hey]

Why can't I be sure? Why would these companies and lobbyists lie to us?

Because they don't know either, and telling your boss "well, we may actually be selling more, due to word of mouth advertising from all of the pirates..." is often not such a great idea.

[archibaldcrane]

w....oosh?

[Plow]

There are far easier and better ways to stem piracy because you'll never prevent it. Steam does a great job just by offering large bundle discounts, indie games and sales. If I don't have to drop $60 on a game i'm not 100% sure on and instead only need to drop $30, I really don't mind that at all. Especially since it's a digital copy and I know it can't get scratched or broken. Then you have fuckers like EA who think they should sell digital goods at the same price as physical goods because OMG MONIES, which drives customers away and makes a lot of pirates out of them. Same shit for movies, when people see a fun summer movie, pay $12 for a ticket to go see it and it is utter pandering garbage, the next time they see a trailer for a similar movie they are just going to pirate it, because you cant trust critic reviews and you still have that experience of the shit moving looming over you.

or you could rent it from redbox for a dollar, or netflix it...

but sure, aside from those your only options are clearly restricted to $12 at a theater or steal it

[Cream Soda]

http://www.aaideas.com/wp-content/up...tNotTheft3.jpg

[hey]

or you could rent it from redbox for a dollar, or netflix it...

but sure, aside from those your only options are clearly restricted to $12 at a theater or steal it

Redbox is insanely inconvenient, and Netflix doesn't have much of a selection for streaming.

[zoobernut]

http://www.aaideas.com/wp-content/up...tNotTheft3.jpg

I don't think that people call piracy theft or stealing because they are stealing an object but rather stealing potential revenue away from the person who created the original content. In the end calling something theft or stealing is a lot more complicated than just how the words apply to physical objects. We are talking about intellectual property that doesn't necessarily live in a physical form.

[archibaldcrane]

They call it theft or stealing to make piracy seem worse than it is.

[hey]

hey are stealing an object but rather stealing potential revenue

Well now we're just getting even further from the truth.

Stealing potential would involve stealing potential from one person, so you have the potential for yourself. Such as by selling a (unauthorized) copy of something. Surely, this involves piracy, but it's very different than what happens 99.99% of the time.

Piracy does not involve stealing of potential. You could certainly argue that it destroys it, but stealing it? No. And i'm sorry, but destroying something that doesn't even exist does not even register on my care-o-meter.