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  1. #21
    Nidhogg
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    Atonement is iffy, I did some random tests a while back and it's like weird hybrid damage. It may have a breath component to it(i.e 50% of its total damage) which is why it's capped at like 360ish damage on things that resist breath damage heavily. Ok so I guess this adds veracity to my claim that there's no such thing as 'spirit damage', they're simply non-elemental breaths.

    HP is usually the modifier for breaths but as you stated Chi Blast might be an exception. I think they just slapped a heavy BDT on new NMs since WoTG because they preemptively quelled any chances of the player community relying on weak yet extremely consistent and accurate attacks to wittle down NMs. Breaths are special in that they bypass MDT/MDB/INT and MND as well as level correction which gives them a unique advantage. Though the player base never really exploited them due to their rarity...unless you count 2003 Spirits Within spam. It's a shame they implemeneted a universal BDT on all new NMs because it would have given BLUs a unique niche for dealing decent damage against NMs in Legion or Voidwatch to be able to stock up on HP gear and deal highly consistant damage with the various breath spells they own,while also justifying all of the "Enhances Breath" armor they can use. Would also make Dragoon more worthwhile since the post-WS breaths that our Wyverns use would deal 200-350 instead of 20-30, which would technically count as enhances our WS# by 200-350 if you add it to the DRG's parse

  2. #22
    An exploitable mess of a card game
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    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fjx49zv3m...ge%20Reduction

    Did some crude tests of this with Siatdiat and Nucky and BDT seems to affect Atonement. What I can say is that atonement seems to cap at 609 damage when used with 300% TP. This was tested several times and seems consistent. We did one practice where, using no gear, we had to use Atonement and rebuild 300% TP for another atonement. The linked images show the initial 609 damage (no gear) and the subsequent damage (DH for 10% BDT).

    What is unclear is what affects the damage.Both attacking and abstaining from attacks resulted with zero damage Atonement. However, he did do damage when my only action was steal. We speculated cures reducing enmity and this wasn't proven false. Since there was a cure prior to using the WS, this could have influenced the damage, but only slightly in my opinion. His PLD was LV80, but a LV99 PLD would be ideal for this check to minimize the number of cures necessary.

  3. #23
    Yoshi P
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    Arthas

    I thought atonement capped at 750 at any tp%? Is breath damage reduced in pvp?

  4. #24
    An exploitable mess of a card game
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    Damage formulas for Ballista are different to avoid rampant one-hits during the event. For instance, 1k needles does 750 DMG. That's why the focus has been whether there is any difference with damage rather than the specific amount of damage.

  5. #25
    Nidhogg
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    Breaths in pvp are weird bro. Remember your Heat Breath tests how you were getting drastically different values even when accounting for BDT? Also Atonement is an enmity based WS, it was speculated that 50% of the damage is from VE and 50% of the damage is from CE. You could have 2 PLDs hitting a target and right before their atonements are used, Libra it up and see how much damage each of them do and their enmity levels relative to eachother. If you see something like PLD1 doing 609 damage with 102% hate and PLD2 doing 314 damage with 32% hate, it would give you a good guesstimate of relative hate:damage and you could go back and calculate how much enmity PLD1 and PLD2 had afterwards.

  6. #26
    BG Content
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    Lakshmi
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    Okay, so you did 609 damage with 0% BDT and 561 with -10% BDT. That only works out to -20/256 breath damage (-8%) when the OP shows -25/256 (-10%), which is assuming that it is applied in a separate term from whatever else is lowering the damage done.

    If we assume he would have done 750 with as much "Enmity" as he had, then there is a mysterious -18.75% to the whole thing, then stacking a further 10% in the same term would drop you down to 534.

    If we assume that Atonement is actually a hybrid WS where only half of it is "special damage," then you natively have -37.5% damage resistance to Atonement's special damage half. Splitting the WS like this is necessary, because stacking sources of -% damage taken only amplifies their effects (makes them appear larger), and we can see above that even if we assume no stacking at all the breath damage reduction is still smaller than expected when applied to the entire WS. If you assume the above and stack another 10% BDT then you drop down to 572. This is high.

    There are reasons to believe that Atonement is a hybrid WS (like how the first hit landing means the second hit will always land) and there are obviously reasons to believe it's Breath damage now. However, I can't seem to make this math work out in any reasonable way for the above data. Ballistaaaaaaaaa!

  7. #27
    An exploitable mess of a card game
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    Did another test with Apollyn and the 609 worked out again. Received the same 561 DMG with DH, so the previous results worked.

    Side notes (Ballista):
    - 623 DMG with Ogier Legs
    - 586 Mulesca (5% DT)
    - 750 1k needles (Seems to be the absolute DMG reduction)
    - Atonement DMG increased by attacking recipient of WS, but WSing an untouched individual should do no dmg
    - Atonement DMG remains the same even if the user cures himself/herself and if they take DMG; this explains why the previous sample was still "good" despite various factors

    Likely more than one DMG reduction.

  8. #28
    Chram
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    Fenrir

    If I'm reading this correctly:

    561 w/-10% BDT
    586 w/-5% DT
    609 base


    -5% DT was -23 damage
    -10% BDT was -48 damage compared to base, -25 damage compared to 5%

    possible rounding issue

    If we assume -10% is -48, that means base damage is 480

    For the initial 5%:
    480 * 50/1024 = 23.4375, floored to 23.
    480 * 51/1024 = 23.90625, floored to 23.

    If the units are in /1024, that means the 10% item has to be 103/1024, or it would round down to 47.

    609 is 0.8125 * 750 (known cap for Atonement). 0.8125 is 13/16, or -3/16. 3/16 would be 48/256.

    Suggested process:

    Atonement damage is 480 + 270. The 270 is not subject to DT adjustment.
    DT Adjustments:
    5% of 480 = -23 (due to flooring)
    10% of 480 = -48
    Ballista (I'm assuming) imposes another -3/16 penalty, which is applied before the DT adjustments, but applies to the entire weaponskill.
    750 * 13/16 = 609.375, floored to 609

    So final damage is:
    750 => 609
    609 - 23 = 586
    609 - 48 = 561

  9. #29
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    That works, but I wonder why the 270 DMG wouldn't be subject to Molusca's universal DT. Wouldn't that imply any mob fought will take at least 270 DMG from Atonement?

    Edit: The method works for Ogiers too though lol. 609+14 = 623 DMG.

    Did another check using Weapon Bash (DMG is subject to PDT):
    NQ: 27
    Ballista: 26
    Ballista Rancor: 28
    Ballista Twilight: 24