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Thread: Mythic de-mythification     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #61
    HABS SUCK!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by EjinCaitsith View Post
    Based on the mob stats, I'd guess this is for ADL farming, in which case SAM also gets a 17% damage boost from Warding circle for everything but DL/ADL, which lasts for 4min30sec on a 5min recast.
    The bonus is cut in half on NM's, or something like that.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by pchan View Post
    I am only doing melees. But anyway, considering the dps of koga 99 SAM, it's not beatable and it's also the only job where maintaining AM3 is possible.
    I assume you mean on paper rather than in practice? There's an exceptional SAM with Koga 99 in the LS and that doesn't tally with what I've seen. It is undoubtedly extremely good but not unbeatable (although it probably wins the majority)

  3. #63

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfyre View Post
    Do I really need to point out the contradiction in mathing weapons costing half a billion gil with "baseline" sets?
    I am sorry but the last SAM gear I listed is not as bad as you make it sound. The only thing it doesn't include is HQ legion shit basically..

  4. #64

    Quote Originally Posted by diasetsu View Post
    That is why I am curious, I think people forget that Meditate is not instant TP.
    I thought about it afterward. More justification for not including jumps in damage calculation. Still it's too precious for zergs and general use.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    I assume you mean on paper rather than in practice? There's an exceptional SAM with Koga 99 in the LS and that doesn't tally with what I've seen. It is undoubtedly extremely good but not unbeatable (although it probably wins the majority)
    Keep in mind that those simulation doesn't include a corsair (Fighter's roll favor non Mythic DD ) nor any form or regain (embrava ect) and it doesn't include some JA like blood rage/restraint(why not btw ?!?) and most likely won't include souleater.

    And it also seems to be aimed at weak farming mob, for any fight in current content that last 2-3min or less, War and Drk are heavyly favored by their JA.

  6. #66

    Most importantly, the damage count only start after the initial WS and doesn't include the DPS loss for keeping AM3 up which is likely putting all but 2 myhtic way behind. Also the war and mnk dps is counting AM3 even though AM1 is more realistic outside of zergs (though it's a minor loss of dps in case of monk).

  7. #67

    Liberator DRK with insurgency - first attempt.
    Using last resort
    Not using endark (enfire better anyway, always available on zergs)
    Not using soueater. Hasso on. Same buffs as in other comparisons.

    Input for better quality gear welcome especially WS (int mod..)

    Gear choice

    Spoiler: show

    //TP
    gearset[0]="liberator 99 am3";gearset[1]="white";
    gearset[2]="bale +2";gearset[3]="ganesha";gearset[4]="brutal";gearset[5]="bale";
    gearset[6]="adaman";gearset[7]="bale +2";gearset[8]="rajas";gearset[9]="tyrant";
    gearset[10]="atheling";gearset[11]="goading";gearset[12]="phorcys";gearset[13]="ace";
    // WS
    wstype="insurgency";
    wsset[0]="liberator 99 am3";wsset[1]="fracas";
    wsset[2]="mekira-oto";wsset[3]="gorget";wsset[4]="brutal";wsset[5]="bale";
    wsset[6]="phorcys";wsset[7]="heafoc";wsset[8]="pyrosoul";wsset[9]="pyrosoul";
    wsset[10]="atheling";wsset[11]="elemental";wsset[12]="bale +2";wsset[13]="bale +2";


    766 DPS (750 in motenten spreadsheet when insurgency bonus is fixed).

    Spoiler: show

    global dps : 766.067326
    accroissements relatifs : 1.000000
    acc average : 0.949989
    wsacc average : 0.949938
    critical rate -melee : 0.250131
    critical rate -ws : 0.000000
    critical rate -global : 0.124868
    melee ratio : 0.401195
    melee dmg p/s : 307.342627
    WSdmg p/s : 458.724699
    round per WS avg : 2.684814
    avg Ws dmg : 3085.049315
    avg Ws dmg sans pdif mais avec crit et critdmg : 1371.556349
    avg punch incl. KA and DA : 449.140535
    counter damage: 0.000000
    counter rate : 0.000000
    ws dmg impetus : 0.000000
    ws dmg nonimpetus : 3085.049314
    ws att avg : 1329.425000
    avg hits per round : 1.714100


    Comparatively, the relic with entropy seems the best and has 550 dps /sam, 586 dps /war (according to the spreadsheet) - those number don't come from my simulation.
    Comparatively, the relic GS with resolution seems the best and has 704 dps /war, 694 dps /sam (according to the spreadsheet) - those numbers don't come from my simulation ; my simulation gives 686 for /sam+ relic GS+resolution (5/5 desperate blows).

    Gear for GS setup
    Spoiler: show

    TP:Ragnarok (99)
    Duplus Grip
    Hagneia
    Bale +2
    Ganesha's Mala
    Brutal
    Bale
    Adaman Haub.
    Bale +2
    Rajas
    Tyrant
    Atheling
    Goading
    Bale +2
    Ace's Leggings
    WS:
    Ragnarok (99)
    Duplus Grip
    Fracas Grenade
    Mekira-oto
    Gorget
    Brutal
    Moonshade TP
    Phorcys
    Phorcys
    Rajas
    Pyrosoul
    Atheling
    Ele.Belt
    Bale +2
    Bale +2


  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by pchan View Post
    Liberator DRK with insurgency - first attempt.
    Using last resort
    Not using endark (enfire better anyway, always available on zergs)
    Not using soueater. Hasso on. Same buffs as in other comparisons.

    Input for better quality gear welcome especially WS (int mod..)

    Gear choice

    Spoiler: show

    //TP
    gearset[0]="liberator 99 am3";gearset[1]="white";
    gearset[2]="bale +2";gearset[3]="ganesha";gearset[4]="brutal";gearset[5]="bale";
    gearset[6]="adaman";gearset[7]="bale +2";gearset[8]="rajas";gearset[9]="tyrant";
    gearset[10]="atheling";gearset[11]="goading";gearset[12]="phorcys";gearset[13]="ace";
    // WS
    wstype="insurgency";
    wsset[0]="liberator 99 am3";wsset[1]="fracas";
    wsset[2]="mekira-oto";wsset[3]="gorget";wsset[4]="brutal";wsset[5]="bale";
    wsset[6]="phorcys";wsset[7]="heafoc";wsset[8]="pyrosoul";wsset[9]="pyrosoul";
    wsset[10]="atheling";wsset[11]="elemental";wsset[12]="bale +2";wsset[13]="bale +2";


    766 DPS (750 in motenten spreadsheet when insurgency bonus is fixed).

    Spoiler: show

    global dps : 766.067326
    accroissements relatifs : 1.000000
    acc average : 0.949989
    wsacc average : 0.949938
    critical rate -melee : 0.250131
    critical rate -ws : 0.000000
    critical rate -global : 0.124868
    melee ratio : 0.401195
    melee dmg p/s : 307.342627
    WSdmg p/s : 458.724699
    round per WS avg : 2.684814
    avg Ws dmg : 3085.049315
    avg Ws dmg sans pdif mais avec crit et critdmg : 1371.556349
    avg punch incl. KA and DA : 449.140535
    counter damage: 0.000000
    counter rate : 0.000000
    ws dmg impetus : 0.000000
    ws dmg nonimpetus : 3085.049314
    ws att avg : 1329.425000
    avg hits per round : 1.714100


    Comparatively, the relic with entropy seems the best and has 550 dps /sam, 586 dps /war (according to the spreadsheet) - those number don't come from my simulation.
    Comparatively, the relic GS with resolution seems the best and has 704 dps /war, 694 dps /sam (according to the spreadsheet) - those numbers don't come from my simulation ; my simulation gives 686 for /sam+ relic GS+resolution (5/5 desperate blows).

    Gear for GS setup
    Spoiler: show

    TP:Ragnarok (99)
    Duplus Grip
    Hagneia
    Bale +2
    Ganesha's Mala
    Brutal
    Bale
    Adaman Haub.
    Bale +2
    Rajas
    Tyrant
    Atheling
    Goading
    Bale +2
    Ace's Leggings
    WS:
    Ragnarok (99)
    Duplus Grip
    Fracas Grenade
    Mekira-oto
    Gorget
    Brutal
    Moonshade TP
    Phorcys
    Phorcys
    Rajas
    Pyrosoul
    Atheling
    Ele.Belt
    Bale +2
    Bale +2

    I only glanced over the WS set a bit, but for input off the top of my head I'd consider using: "Twilight Helm" for head, "Phorcys mitts" for hands, and "Ogier's Breeches" for legs.

    I know the simulations/modeling is for fun/discussion, but try to account for Souleater for DRK, Liberator DRK in particular, since it's a substantial increase. (The OAT + Extra WS + Extra hits on WS mean you get a lot more out of Souleater.)

  9. #69
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    Lots of the DRK gear can be shifted if the DRK is getting Embrava or marches. One of DRKs biggest advantages is only needing 12% gear haste to cap delay. Also for gear like Adaman Hauberk, the spread sheet doesn't have augments. 5stp,2da on NQ 6stp,3da on HQ. Souleater also can't be forgotten since you mentioned zergs.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taint View Post
    Lots of the DRK gear can be shifted if the DRK is getting Embrava or marches. One of DRKs biggest advantages is only needing 12% gear haste to cap delay. Also for gear like Adaman Hauberk, the spread sheet doesn't have augments. 5stp,2da on NQ 6stp,3da on HQ. Souleater also can't be forgotten since you mentioned zergs.
    In Motenten's DPS sheets you can go to the "Gear Lists" sheet and quickly add in augments such as sTP and DA for the Hauberk or add in your own items if you want to see how they compare.

  11. #71
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    I did it for ragnarok

    same buff ect

    Tp:
    Spoiler: show

    Ragnarok 99 Duplus Hagneia
    Bale +2 Ganesha Bale earring/brutal
    Armada(aug) Ogiers hands tyrant/rajas
    Atheling Windbuffet Phorcys Phorcys


    Resolution:
    Spoiler: show

    Fracas grenade
    Mekira oto+1 /Gorget/moonshade/brutal
    Phorcys Phorcys Pyrosoul Pyrosoul
    Fortis Belt Whirlwind Dilaram


    845 dps /war
    1045 dps with Souleater
    806 dps /sam (might have better gear change)


    edit: was with boost str, with boost dex:

    /war give 813
    /sam give 781

  12. #72

    I added it into my simulation ; with souleater and the previous conditions/gear :
    ragnarok /sam and souleater : 891 DPS and -101 HP per second. (elvaan)
    liberator /sam and souleater : 1012 DPS and - 123 HP per second. (elvaan)

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirschy View Post
    In Motenten's DPS sheets you can go to the "Gear Lists" sheet and quickly add in augments such as sTP and DA for the Hauberk or add in your own items if you want to see how they compare.


    Yeah I have mine edited like crazy, but I doubt Pchan took the time.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccl View Post
    I did it for ragnarok

    same buff ect

    Tp:
    Spoiler: show

    Ragnarok 99 Duplus Hagneia
    Bale +2 Ganesha Bale earring/brutal
    Armada(aug) Ogiers hands tyrant/rajas
    Atheling Windbuffet Phorcys Phorcys


    Resolution:
    Spoiler: show

    Fracas grenade
    Mekira oto+1 /Gorget/moonshade/brutal
    Phorcys Phorcys Pyrosoul Pyrosoul
    Fortis Belt Whirlwind Dilaram


    845 dps /war
    1045 dps with Souleater
    806 dps /sam (might have better gear change)


    edit: was with boost str, with boost dex:

    /war give 813
    /sam give 781


    What mob stats were you using?

    Some of that gear is pretty suspect.

  15. #75
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    I'm using the stat Pchan posted in OP, wich I guess is dynamis xar fodder farm, there is obviously some gear swap in hard stuff, but seems like he is just comparing for fodder level of mob wich is everything but Legion/Some higher tier VW.

    Stat are:

    mob_vit=95;
    eva=470;
    def=560*0.90; // dia 2 active
    lvl=0;
    mob_agi=95;

    And I actually had vit higher than that on mine, was at 118 for some reason.

    With 95 vit I got 827 dps /war boost dex, rcb march march min min (both bonus +5) zerk/aggressor/lr dia II, elvaan 12 str/dex merit.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccl View Post
    I'm using the stat Pchan posted in OP, wich I guess is dynamis xar fodder farm, there is obviously some gear swap in hard stuff, but seems like he is just comparing for fodder level of mob wich is everything but Legion/Some higher tier VW.

    Stat are:

    mob_vit=95;
    eva=470;
    def=560*0.90; // dia 2 active
    lvl=0;
    mob_agi=95;

    And I actually had vit higher than that on mine, was at 118 for some reason.

    With 95 vit I got 827 dps /war boost dex, rcb march march min min (both bonus +5) zerk/aggressor/lr dia II, elvaan 12 str/dex merit.

    Ty sir, wanted to play around some myself.

  17. #77

    Quote Originally Posted by ccl View Post
    I'm using the stat Pchan posted in OP, wich I guess is dynamis xar fodder farm,
    They are higher level than dynamis mobs, see them as even match normal mobs. Dynamis mobs from mot spreadsheet have much weaker def and lower agi/vit due to being easy prey now at 99.

  18. #78

    Ok so now that I have done all DDs (sarcasm), I'm going to test them against Ig-Ilama, since apparently it's the big bad guy.

    Using : 120 level, 110 agi, 123 vit, 540 eva.

    First, attempt to guestimate if extra accuracy is required depending on the DD used. Note that the previous geared is not supposed to represent something aimed for higher evasion stuff, but anyway it gives idea (I suppose you can tweak serveral pieces of gear to gain like 30 accuracy while still maintaining performance). Also Feint could be used so evasion is mostly irelevant IMO but anyway I'm listing it. With the gear I used in the previous posts I have

    Code:
    pup acc : 0.379995
    monk acc : 0.552504, relic 0.540039
    glanzfaust acc : 0.550063 
    ryunohige acc : 0.949926, relic 0.949970
    war acc : 0.873773
    conqueror acc : 0.893718
    koga acc : 0.809038
    liberator acc (/sam): 0.535223
    ragnarok acc (/sam): 0.752722
    From the look of it only DRG is easy on accuracy on this mob. WAR, SAM and relic DRK need a decent amount of acc. MNK,DRK, and PUP need a lot of accuracy (~80). For the comparison I will be using a double madrigal setup, while it favors pup,mnk, and drk, the extra 10 dex for capped crit% is benefitting all. So basically I'm using those buffs :

    haste, dia2, marchesx2, minuetsx2, boost-dex, RCB, madrigalsx2
    which is equivalent to
    haste, dia2, marchesx2, chaos, boost-dex, RCB, madrigalsx2
    or
    haste, dia2, embrava, chaos, boost-dex, RCB, madrigalsx2 (without regain)

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by pchan View Post
    Ok so now that I have done all DDs (sarcasm), I'm going to test them against Ig-Ilama, since apparently it's the big bad guy.

    Using : 120 level, 110 agi, 123 vit, 540 eva.

    First, attempt to guestimate if extra accuracy is required depending on the DD used. Note that the previous geared is not supposed to represent something aimed for higher evasion stuff, but anyway it gives idea (I suppose you can tweak serveral pieces of gear to gain like 30 accuracy while still maintaining performance). Also Feint could be used so evasion is mostly irelevant IMO but anyway I'm listing it. With the gear I used in the previous posts I have

    Code:
    pup acc : 0.379995
    monk acc : 0.552504, relic 0.540039
    glanzfaust acc : 0.550063 
    ryunohige acc : 0.949926, relic 0.949970
    war acc : 0.873773
    conqueror acc : 0.893718
    koga acc : 0.809038
    liberator acc (/sam): 0.535223
    ragnarok acc (/sam): 0.752722
    From the look of it only DRG is easy on accuracy on this mob. WAR, SAM and relic DRK need a decent amount of acc. MNK,DRK, and PUP need a lot of accuracy (~80). For the comparison I will be using a double madrigal setup, while it favors pup,mnk, and drk, the extra 10 dex for capped crit% is benefitting all%2


    Don't forget DRK gets +45 Acc from Diabolic Eye (last for 3:30 on a 5min timer)

    Souleater also adds +25 Acc which is not accounted for on the spreadsheet.

    DRK should have the least amount of ACC problems. (esp with their ability to swap gear and still cap delay)

  20. #80
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    I'm at work so can't properly look at it but your Liberator set seems significantly wrong (imho). It's more STP heavy than my 5 hit Apoc set but Liberator has higher delay and uses a multihit WS. You could certainly give it a lot more acc if required (like for Ig) which is what you're asking right?

    EDIT: Also it may well be that for something like Ig /WAR sub will perform better since the attack and acc from Berserk/Aggressor will actually be utilised and probably outweigh the x-hit/hasso from SAM sub. It certainly does in practice but in practice/on paper are not the same thing obviously.

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