Mythic de-mythification

[Darkmagi]

No one uses THF in voidwatch, also why wasn't chaos roll included? I find DRK to have a pretty substantial lead on ig-alima over most jobs due to high def(not just level correction) and being able to actually make use of the acc on diabolic eye. Those DPS numbers are certainly not accurate if you include things like chaos roll and VW buffs.

[diasetsu]

Phorcys set bonus is not accounted for

If you feel ambitious you can make it automatically account for phorcys set bonus.
The "Gear" page has cell protection so you can't fiddle with certain cells. You'll have to turn that off. I am not sure exactly how to do with Excel to be honest though, as I use a different program.

+IF(COUNTIF(B3:B17,"Phorcys")=5,15,IF(COUNTIF(B3:B17,"Phorcys")=4,10,IF(COUNTIF(B3:B17,"Phorcys")=3,5,IF(COUNTIF(B3:B17,"Phorcys")=2,2,0))))

Add this to cells D20, G20, H20 and I20

+IF(COUNTIF(B25:B39,"Phorcys")=5,15,IF(COUNTIF(B25:B39,"Phorcys")=4,10,IF(COUNTIF(B25:B39,"Phorcys")=3,5,IF(COUNTIF(B25:B39,"Phorcys")=2,2,0))))

Add this to cells D42, G42, H42 and I42

+IF(COUNTIF(AB3:AB17,"Phorcys")=5,15,IF(COUNTIF(AB3:AB17,"Phorcys")=4,10,IF(COUNTIF(AB3:AB17,"Phorcys")=3,5,IF(COUNTIF(AB3:AB17,"Phorcys")=2,2,0))))

Add this to cells AD20, AG20, AH20 and AI20

+IF(COUNTIF(AB25:AB39,"Phorcys")=5,15,IF(COUNTIF(AB25:AB39,"Phorcys")=4,10,IF(COUNTIF(AB25:AB39,"Phorcys")=3,5,IF(COUNTIF(AB25:AB39,"Phorcys")=2,2,0))))

Add this to cells AD42, AG42, AH42 and AI42

Example: Cell AD20 currently is

=SUM(AD3:AD18)

You want it to be

=SUM(AD3:AD18)+IF(COUNTIF(AB3:AB17,"Phorcys")=5,15,IF(COUNTIF(AB3:AB17,"Phorcys")=4,10,IF(COUNTIF(AB3:AB17,"Phorcys")=3,5,IF(COUNTIF(AB3:AB17,"Phorcys")=2,2,0))))

Changing those cells will make the total stats rows account for Phorcys Set Bonuses so you no longer have to manually enter them into the set bonus rows.

[Fake]

I'm now listing the DPS for an angon setup on ig-ilama, which I will call "strong angon". It's the same buff as "strong" with a -20% def.

pup
DPS : 283.454789
monk
DPS : 414.254493, spharai : 385.504364
glanz
DPS : shijin : 409.718392, ascetic : 410.843368
ryunohige
DPS : 380.229445, relic : 242.988904
war
DPS : 441.890634
conqueror
DPS : 401.622653
koga
DPS : 453.435146
liberator
DPS : 345.282786
ragnarok
DPS : 376.139636

Is koga using shoha or rana?

[pchan]

No one uses THF in voidwatch, also why wasn't chaos roll included? .

Because it only favors DRG ; sam/war, DRK /sam or war, mnk/war, war/sam, pup/war would likely use better rolls. (DA and crit) unless you don't use angon but even then DRG is going to need something more than others.

[Darkmagi]

You won't be capping atk on ig-alima without chaos roll. Also can't assume angon fulltime, Keep in mind that the rogues roll will not be getting the job bonus, while chaos roll will.(chance of hat boost, but you can't rely on that) Obviously you're going to be giving chaos roll over rogue's roll, considering that DRK already has a lead on MNK regardless.(assuming that rogue's was actually better, which I'm fairly certain that it is not.)

[pchan]

DRK/WAR will never need it's roll or angon. On 95% of the mobs DA or crit roll will do better. You can always buff attack with a second bard or other def down moves.

[Darkmagi]

Possibly the case if you have a perma 99harp brd, but that isn't really realistic especially since we're talking about voidwatch. The realistic case will be that you have a party with 1brd and cor, lucky if it's even a 90 harp brd. Voidwatch is also about making money, so trying to find out which job is better would obviously favor DRK since you can cap atk in shit food. So voidwatch isn't really a good example to compare DPS.

[pchan]

Not my fault ; regarless on the mob I try to compare someone will QQ. If you don't like the strong setups, stick to the weak setup which covers everything. When taking into account the heavy burden that keeping AM3 up is, none of the mythic beside SAM are good, the only job that never sucks is war, drk has to bleed to beat monk, and in the end monks win because everyone has to sub nin in salvage ?

[Dotsudoku]

You still have yet to show why DRG is incapable of maintaining AM3. Jumps have a minuscule lead over Meditate, and the jobs' hit builds generate identical TP.

[Foldypaws]

I'm now listing the DPS for an angon setup on ig-ilama, which I will call "strong angon". It's the same buff as "strong" with a -20% def.

Angon is a -25% def with Relic +2 gloves.

[pchan]

Now, adding enfire as a buff and checking the effect on DDs (~4 minutes buff, 45s recast, 40 per hit on average)

"strong angon" + "enfire"

pup
DPS : 335.653925
monk
DPS : 466.953089, spharai : 434.521167
glanz
DPS : shijin : 464.899719, ascetic : 466.202516
ryunohige
DPS : 407.298913, relic : 262.368079
war
DPS : 465.518576
conqueror
DPS : 429.769903
koga
DPS : 484.916832
liberator
DPS : 373.176919
ragnarok
DPS : 401.433569

"strong"+"enfire"

pup
DPS : 281.002594
monk
DPS : 391.387971, spharai : 372.366933
glanz
DPS : shijin : 405.893002, ascetic : 437.407140
ryunohige
DPS : 316.148034, relic : 193.549352
war
DPS : 355.974726
conqueror
DPS : 359.870636
koga
DPS : 455.009471
liberator
DPS : 325.218687
ragnarok
DPS : 313.524793

"weak"+"enfire"

pup
DPS : 768.994927
monk
DPS : 762.729080, spharai : 742.265068
glanz
DPS : shijin : 815.775419, ascetic : 756.374135
ryunohige
DPS : 786.148039, relic : 508.623290
war
DPS : 754.476739
conqueror
DPS : 778.565901
koga
DPS : 900.293527
liberator
DPS : 793.225982
ragnarok
DPS : 714.675319

[Taint]

Not my fault ; regarless on the mob I try to compare someone will QQ. If you don't like the strong setups, stick to the weak setup which covers everything. When taking into account the heavy burden that keeping AM3 up is, none of the mythic beside SAM are good, the only job that never sucks is war, drk has to bleed to beat monk, and in the end monks win because everyone has to sub nin in salvage ?

If Neo Salvage requires /NIN for whatever reason, DRK,SAM and MNK will be the preferred DDs. DRK and SAM can sub whatever and cap delay.

[Jem]

DRK can also potentially switch to Apocalypse if damage taken is a deal-breaker. It would obviously depend on what exactly necessitated the use of NIN sub though.

Bravura potentially becomes an option for WAR too in the same scenario. Again dependent on why exactly you have to NIN sub.

[Suljin]

Not sure if this goes here or the other mythic thread. I've been considering it for a long time, but finally decided. I want to make a mythic. I am undecided though between kkk and Nirvana. I play pup/smn/sch/blm/whm and smn/pup are my two favorite jobs. (smn is my best geared job, everything else is geared well at least). I know if I made a verethragna as soon as I get to the heavy metal stage I'd stop upgrading. Thats one reason why I'd prefer a kkk instead. Also with Neo salvage incoming, Alex will be more available. Anyways, I'm torn between which of the two weapons I should go for, which would benefit me most, etc. Any suggestions?

[pchan]

adding in 14% crit for conqueror
"weak"+"enfire"

pup
DPS : 770.312963
monk
DPS : 782.691679, spharai : 740.374488
glanz
DPS : shijin : 815.917040, ascetic : 757.191501
ryunohige
DPS : 786.810370, relic : 508.918496
war
DPS : 754.798258
conqueror
DPS : 801.438686 (+23 dps)
koga
DPS : 901.485283
liberator
DPS : 793.740882
ragnarok
DPS : 716.478364

"strong"+"enfire"

pup
DPS : 289.494333
monk
DPS : 396.847943, spharai : 352.932440
glanz
DPS : shijin : 405.887213, ascetic : 437.731817
ryunohige
DPS : 316.671890, relic : 193.752040
war
DPS : 355.930008
conqueror
DPS : 381.157458 (+22 dps)
koga
DPS : 455.662781
liberator
DPS : 336.532639
ragnarok
DPS : 314.108901

"strongangon"+"enfire"

pup
DPS : 345.883476
monk
DPS : 480.278106, spharai : 415.238154
glanz
DPS : shijin : 464.860000, ascetic : 467.790600
ryunohige
DPS : 407.704707, relic : 262.614129
war
DPS : 465.253833
conqueror
DPS : 454.075056 (+25 dps)
koga
DPS : 485.378989
liberator
DPS : 386.212992
ragnarok
DPS : 402.204694

[Wardeniii]

Some of these were already said, others weren't but for the Ryu WS gear simulation, I might suggest using 10% crit damage aug'd Huginn feet for tp/ws, Claymore Grip, rancorous mantle, justiciar's torque if WS attack still isn't capped due to the penalty. Also give phorcys hands and/or hecatomb hands+1 augmented with crit hit dmg+4% a try if you happen to feel up to it.

Thanks for the info and discussion.

[Darkmagi]

What tp/ws gear are you using in the conqueror simulation?

[pchan]

Some of these were already said, others weren't but for the Ryu WS gear simulation, I might suggest using 10% crit damage aug'd Huginn feet for tp/ws, Claymore Grip, rancorous mantle, justiciar's torque if WS attack still isn't capped due to the penalty. Also give phorcys hands and/or hecatomb hands+1 augmented with crit hit dmg+4% a try if you happen to feel up to it.

Thanks for the info and discussion.

you are overestimating the effect of crit+ and even more the effect of critdmg+, the 14% crit boost to conqueror has nearly no effect.

[pchan]

In the perspective of maintaining AM3 with a mythic, I have done some large simulations and they seem to give the following results. The time listed is the time at which you need to stop doing WS to get 300 TP about right as AM3 wear off. You will end up with less than 300 TP less than 1% of the time with the following numbers. For example if "30 seconds" is listed you need to stop spamming WS 30 sec before AM3 wears off.

KKK : 43 seconds.
Glanzfaust : 35 seconds.
Ryunohige : 22 seconds.
Conqueror : 24 seconds.
Koga : 17 seconds.
liberator : 22 seconds.

Even if you are in the middle of building TP you should wait this amount of time unless you want to play with luck. For instance if you're on liberator DRK and stop only 15 sec before it wears off, instead of 22, you will not have 300 tp 33% of the time. First estimation shows that the dps loss is surprisingly minimal (~5%) accross all job except SAM which seems to be ~8%.

[Taint]

In the perspective of maintaining AM3 with a mythic, I have done some large simulations and they seem to give the following results. The time listed is the time at which you need to stop doing WS to get 300 TP about right as AM3 wear off. You will end up with less than 300 TP less than 1% of the time with the following numbers. For example if "30 seconds" is listed you need to stop spamming WS 30 sec before AM3 wears off.

KKK : 43 seconds.
Glanzfaust : 35 seconds.
Ryunohige : 22 seconds.
Conqueror : 24 seconds.
Koga : 17 seconds.
liberator : 22 seconds.

Even if you are in the middle of building TP you should wait this amount of time unless you want to play with luck. For instance if you're on liberator DRK and stop only 15 sec before it wears off, instead of 22, you will not have 300 tp 33% of the time. First estimation shows that the dps loss is surprisingly minimal (~5%) accross all job except SAM which seems to be ~8%.

Thanks for the test.

Did you factor in Meditate or Jumps? Meditate on a 3min or less timer is pretty perfect for maintaining AM3 and Jumps are easy to time with AM3 refresh.

Watched 2hand mythics in action for the first time yesterday. (Exodus LS just moved to Cerb) Koga was especially impressive.