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Thread: Mythic de-mythification     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #121

    Meditate can't contribute to AM3 maintain except during the last 17 seconds because you constantly use the tps up to this point.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by pchan View Post
    Not my fault ; regarless on the mob I try to compare someone will QQ. If you don't like the strong setups, stick to the weak setup which covers everything. When taking into account the heavy burden that keeping AM3 up is, none of the mythic beside SAM are good, the only job that never sucks is war, drk has to bleed to beat monk, and in the end monks win because everyone has to sub nin in salvage ?
    Why subbing nin in salvage?

  3. #123
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    Can get 300 tp in under 17 sec with koga. Only takes around 3-5 sec per ws when fully hasted. It often seems like you have constant 2h going.

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    Quote Originally Posted by macross View Post
    Can get 300 tp in under 17 sec with koga. Only takes around 3-5 sec per ws when fully hasted. It often seems like you have constant 2h going.
    This is a fair question. What haste values did you use for this simulation?

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by macross View Post
    Can get 300 tp in under 17 sec with koga. Only takes around 3-5 sec per ws when fully hasted. It often seems like you have constant 2h going.
    Probably is pretty close to 17s at capped haste tbh. I'll try to clock it a bit later. Obviously sometimes you will get tp much faster, but you have to account for getting unlucky on 2-3 as well.

  6. #126
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    No simulations, just actually using it. Heck in VW it's faster to not pop wings as you can get TP faster just swinging. Often get enough tp to ws again by the time you land after shoha animation. Pretty sure you can just equip a soboro and will get similar results.

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    I was asking pchan about his simulations.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by macross View Post
    No simulations, just actually using it. Heck in VW it's faster to not pop wings as you can get TP faster just swinging. Often get enough tp to ws again by the time you land after shoha animation. Pretty sure you can just equip a soboro and will get similar results.
    Isn't ever worth using wings regardless besides to activate aftermaths. I have certainly had times where my DPS dropped a lot because I overestimated how fast I would get tp, and had to get like 80 or more TP without aftermath on. 17s is probably a bit too much, but I don't see it being that much different on average.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by pchan View Post
    Meditate can't contribute to AM3 maintain except during the last 17 seconds because you constantly use the tps up to this point.
    Yes but is meditate factored in to those 17 seconds or not?

  10. #130
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    For Dragoon: The wyvern has 318* base delay and with /SAM the Wyvern is getting ~9TP/hit, the Wyvern also benefits from AM3. If The DRG in the last 30 seconds used both Jumps and meditate they could easily hit 230+ easily or if they're lucky, 300% but in cases where they're really close they can Spirit Link tranfer half of the Wyvern's TP to quickly make up the remaining amount. To see if it's even a significant amount, I tested to see on average how much TP a Wyvern with AMIII and Haste could generate in 30 seconds.

    With AM III and Empathy'd Haste, my wyvern on average hit about 14x in 30 seconds with each hit giving roughly 9 TP. This amounted to about 106ish TP on average. Of course it was a small sample size and AM3 can be finicky. But that 100ish TP in 30 seconds means a DRG can Spirit Link steal about 50 TP from the wyvern in those last 30 seconds where he stops weapon skilling. It would speed up TP generation a decent amount if he was unlucky with OA2-3 procs on Jumps and it's an instant 50TP on average just use <petthpp> to see if if the amount it will give you brings you to 300% instantly so you don't get that 3 second JA delay leaving you at 298% TP.

    *Source:
    攻撃間隔 318
    (http://wiki.ffo.jp/html/1888.html)

  11. #131
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    I'm pretty sure he didn't account for JAs at all on DRG. Soul/Spirit Jump with AM up give an average of ~10 swings worth of TP and cost you 3 seconds to use. That's most of the way there in 1/10 the time he has listed.

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    Could be that he averaged the likelihood of either jump being up during that period.

  13. #133
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    Just playing with Koga math for a second.

    Needing 300tp, 18.8tp from your last Shoha (assuming 2hit only) = 281.2 remaining.

    Koga SAM can get 22.7 tp a swing

    So 13 swings to 300tp (min TP per swing 21.7)

    90delay (450x20%) x 13 = 19.5 seconds to 300tp. That doesn't factor in any DA(20%)QA(2%), Zanhasso(16%) or Med. (or if timed correctly OA2-3 from previous AM)

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    The numbers he listed were before AM3 wore, so AM3 is definitely applicable.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yugl View Post
    Could be that he averaged the likelihood of either jump being up during that period.
    Then he did it very poorly. Jumps are remarkably easy to cycle along with aftermath. I seldom spend more than a few seconds refreshing it, granted the fight has some kind of meaningful length to it(dynamis mobs would slow me down by a few additional seconds, for instance)

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detzu View Post
    Why subbing nin in salvage?
    Seriously, we clear HQ boss and all NMs along the way with DNC/SAM + SCH/RDM 2box, MNK/WAR + WHM/SCH (2box) + THF (3box) ... with significant time remaining.
    Once the SCH gets JAs and Spells, the WHM mule barely has to cure at all until the HQ boss. Why so /NIN?

    Regen V is kind of sort of awesome, and even with Gimpbrava, it's icing on the cake for the boss fight.

  17. #137
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    The bosses I've found seem to have capped accuracy too, atleast HQ khim wasnt missing my thief, so you'll just spend all your time casting Utsu.

  18. #138
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    Though MNK is likely going to be out damaging a DD that's using seigan, that's my main reason for using it. It's also generally the easiest DD to dualbox in my opinion.

  19. #139
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    My DNC isn't really performing any evasive miracles vs. Prideleader (I don't really even bother with Third Eye, I just blood tank and survive with the WHM mule - SCH mule sits out of range to paralyna WHM mule when it gets Fulminationed), so unless you somehow managed to get inflicted with Aegis Schism during the fight, I don't see any reason you'd be using Seigan either.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asymptotic View Post
    Seriously, we clear HQ boss and all NMs along the way with DNC/SAM + SCH/RDM 2box, MNK/WAR + WHM/SCH (2box) + THF (3box) ... with significant time remaining.
    Once the SCH gets JAs and Spells, the WHM mule barely has to cure at all until the HQ boss. Why so /NIN?

    Regen V is kind of sort of awesome, and even with Gimpbrava, it's icing on the cake for the boss fight.
    Please check the date of pchan's post. Pchan made this suggestion of /NIN a few months before Neo salvage. At that time, we did not know how difficult neo salvage would be, so it's not wrong for him to suggest that DD might need to /NIN.