Mythic de-mythification

[pchan]

The purpose of this thread is to accurately estimate the benefits of mythics while AM3 is up. Personnally I think they are only worth starting from 300TP on zerg, so I won't bother to include a strategy that builds 300 TP (which would considerably weaken them). I already did the pup one in the RQT, I'll repost it later on, but I'll start with DRG's mythic.

For reference I use a relatively weak mob (accuracy will probably be capped with any DD)

Spoiler: show

mob_vit=95;
eva=470;
def=560*0.90; // dia 2 active
lvl=0;
mob_agi=95;

I'm using those common buffs :
*berserk+agressor if /war or war main, hasso if 2Handed DD /sam or sam main
*red curry bun as food
*a maxed BRD for buffs (daurdabla 99 for 4 songs all overwritten with the level 99 relic horn) casting songs with the full AF3+2 bonus : I use minuet 4 and 5 (that's about 150 attack) and 2xmarch, so I'm getting 10 str and 10 dex bonus.
*boostdex ( +25 dex)
*haste, dia 2.

Also for reference a good DD with those buff (like MNK/WAR with vere 99,impetus, and good gear) is doing 700+ DPS (can be verified with motenten's spreadsheets, 725 for monk for instance).

MNK reference

Spoiler: show

//TP
Verethragna 99 x x Hagneia Stone
thaumas, Rancor, Max Brutal, Jupiter Pearl
Thaumas, Mustela, Oneiros, Epona
Atheling,Black,Tantra +2,Thaumas
//WS
Verethragna 99,Tantra Tathlum
Thaumas,Rancor Max,Brutal,Vulcan Pearl
Tantra +2,Heafoc,Rajas,Epona
Atheling,Wanion,Thaumas,Kacura +1

For DPS calculations I'm using I'm using a simulation of my own, but I will list the "parse" of the simultion and verify each time that results match the theory. I'll use an elvaan 99.

[pchan]

For ryunohige 99 I'll use this gear (DRG/SAM)

Spoiler: show

//TP
gearset[0]="ryunohige 99 rose";gearset[1]="potestas";
gearset[2]="phorcys";gearset[3]="ganesha";gearset[4]="brutal";gearset[5]="ghillie +1";
gearset[6]="lancer +2";gearset[7]="lancer +2";gearset[8]="rajas";gearset[9]="tyrant";
gearset[10]="atheling";gearset[11]="phos";gearset[12]="phorcys";gearset[13]="lancer +2";

// WS
wstype="drakesbane";
wsset[0]="ryunohige 99 rose";wsset[1]="thew bomblet";
wsset[2]="mekira-oto";wsset[3]="gorget";wsset[4]="brutal";wsset[5]="moonshade att/tpbonus";
wsset[6]="lancer +2";wsset[7]="lancer +2";wsset[8]="rajas";wsset[9]="pyrosoul";
wsset[10]="atheling";wsset[11]="elemental";wsset[12]="lancer +2";wsset[13]="wyrm +2";

Results of the simulation

Spoiler: show

global dps : 762.353103
acc average : 0.949958
wsacc average : 0.949913
critical rate -melee : 0.250043
critical rate -ws : 0.406782
critical rate -global : 0.328660
melee ratio : 0.332241
melee dmg p/s : 253.284606
WSdmg p/s : 509.068497
round per WS avg : 2.692438
avg Ws dmg : 3465.738647
avg punch : 374.809532
avg hits per round : 1.708724

762 dps, I don't count jumps nor meditate nor wyvern.

Quick verifications on the stats :

Spoiler: show

average hit per round=1.708
You can compute it easily (12% DA rate, 2% QA rate, OA2 40%, OA3 20%)

qa:=0.02:ta:=0.00:da:=0.12:oa2:=0.40:oa3:=0.20:
(1+qa*3+ (1-qa)*(  ta*2+(1-ta)*( da*1 + (1-da)*( oa3*2+(1-oa3)*( oa2*1 + (1-oa2)*0                                                )))))*0.95;
1.708

With the above gear, during WS, str=199, crit=40.6%, att=1017, 10% crit damage. Accounting for the 0.81 attack mode on drakesbane :

d:=151+min((199-95+4)/4,8+floor(151/9));dd:=floor(0.85*0.50*199);
 d+dd;oa2:=0.40:oa3:=0.20:att:=0.8125*1017;crit:=0.406;pdifm:=pdif2(att,560*0.9,0)[3];pdifc:=pdif2(att,560*0.9,0)[6];qa:=0.00;da:=0.12;ta:=0.0;ftp:=( (1.2+3)*qa+ (1-qa)*( (1.2+2)*ta + (1-ta)*( (1.2+1)*da + (1-da)*( (1.2+2)*oa3+ (1-oa3)*( (1.2+1)*oa2 +(1-oa2)*1.2))))
 +
 (1+3)*qa+ (1-qa)*( (1+2)*ta + (1-ta)*( (1+1)*da+(1-da)*1))
 +2):d1:=ftp*(d+dd);d1*((1-crit)*pdifm+crit*pdifc*1.1)*0.95*1.3;

returns 3463 too like the simulation (3465).

Average damage per hit : easy calculation except you get 25% crit this time, 175 total DMG, 996 attack during TP.

d:=151+min((159-95+4)/4,8+floor(151/9));att:=996;pdifm:=pdif2(att,560*0.9,0)[3];pdifc:=pdif2(att,560*0.9,0)[6];crit:=0.25;d*(pdifm*(1-crit)+pdifc*(crit)*1.0);

which return 374, same as the simulation.

[Yugl]

I don't find VIT/AGI 95 to accurately describe tougher NMs. However, if you plan on using those values, Drakesbane could easily push a dDEX set. As an Elvaan with 12 DEX merits, you have 95 DEX base.

Twilight (10)
Rancor Mantle (5% Crit rate)
Justicier Torque (I believe this beats gorget since the benefit doesn't carry the way Stardiver does)
Lancer body (14)
Lancer hands (8)
Rajas (5)
Hecatomb Augmented (10-11 STR, 4+ DEX, 5 ATT, 3 Polearm Skill)
Wanion Belt (8STR 8DEX)

Total dDEX: 49 (So close!)
You also gain Rancorous Mantle's critical hit% bonus

Should be 29% critical hit rate before the bonus from Drakesbane (If there is any; idk if anyone has tested using the atma method since CDF's test).

[pchan]

dex is 155 during ws so I'm capping with that gear and the base 10% crit is accounted for.

[Taim Meich]

I find those simulations with very weak monsters and very high buffs pretty unrealistic. Either you simulate EP/DC farming with little to no buffs (at most, what you can get from a WHM mule) or you simulate a proper HNM situation, with high buffs but also a high level NM with high stats. I'm not saying this will change the simulations one way or another, but the way you do it, they are not very representative.

[diasetsu]

Well a Brd mule would be more appropriate than a Whm mule I would think when talking about EP/DC farming. You'd have all the buffs Pchan uses except Boost spells, so I don't think things would change all that much. I do agree that a nice HNM type enemy comparison would also be nice, maybe with COR rolls then as well, possibly embrava.

[Taim Meich]

Yeah, I guess. Honestly, in my mind I was just taking the mule out of question entirely (hence the "at most"), and one could argue that the vast majority of mules are WHM mules, but yeah, it's probably just me and my aversion to dualboxing.

[pchan]

HnMs will not change things much, except boost dex that would imply using other gear to cap ddex. I think most HnM only have slightly more defense except a few that have a lot more. It would make jobs that don't have attack penalties better and those that have attack bonus even better. I can do it easily though.

[dasva]

Well I doubt most people have 99 relic/emp brd mules though lol

[pchan]

Now doing kenkonken 99, PUP/WAR (stringing pummel, no puppet damage shown)

Using this gear

Spoiler: show

//TP
gearset[0]="kenkonken 99";gearset[1]="deluxe animator";
gearset[2]="cirque +2";gearset[3]="rancor";gearset[4]="brutal";gearset[5]="ghillie +1";
gearset[6]="thaumas";gearset[7]="nomkahpa";gearset[8]="rajas";gearset[9]="epona";
gearset[10]="pantin";gearset[11]="twilight";gearset[12]="thaumas";gearset[13]="usukane";

// WS
wstype="stringing pummel";
wsset[0]="kenkonken 99";wsset[1]="deluxe animator";
wsset[2]="thaumas";wsset[3]="tjukurrpa";wsset[4]="brutal";wsset[5]="moonshade att/tpbonus";
wsset[6]="thaumas";wsset[7]="athos";wsset[8]="spiral";wsset[9]="epona";
wsset[10]="cavaros";wsset[11]="elemental";wsset[12]="athos";wsset[13]="cirque +2";

708 dps. Details :

Spoiler: show

global dps : 708.085593
accroissements relatifs : 1.000000
acc average : 0.949981
wsacc average : 0.949994
critical rate -melee : 0.300030
critical rate -ws : 0.639782
critical rate -global : 0.396743
melee ratio : 0.502865
melee dmg p/s : 356.071397
WSdmg p/s : 352.014195
round per WS avg : 5.395016
avg Ws dmg : 4052.816518
avg Ws dmg sans pdif mais avec crit et critdmg : 2051.847138
avg punch incl. KA and DA : 234.717637
counter damage: 0.000000
counter rate : 0.000000
ws dmg impetus : 0.000000
ws dmg nonimpetus : 4052.816515
ws att avg : 987.500000
avg hits per round : 3.237390

(note : using 35% base crit for SP as stated on bgwiki)

Verification for average hit/round (29% DA, 6% TA, 3% QA)

Spoiler: show

qa:=0.03:ta:=0.06:da:=0.29a2:=0.40a3:=0.20:ka:=0.02+ qa*3+ (1-qa)*( ta*2+(1-ta)*( da*1 + (1-da)*( oa3*2+(1-oa3)*( oa2*1 + (1-oa2)*0 ))))+qa*3+ (1-qa)*( ta*2+(1-ta)*( da*1 + (1-da)*(0)))+ )*0.95;

which returns 3.23 also k

Verification for average WS damage.

Spoiler: show

d:=102;dd:=69;d+dd;
oa2:=0.40a3:=0.20:att:=990;crit:=0.64;pdifm:=pdif(att,560*0 .9,0)[3];pdifc:=pdif(att,560*0.9,0)[6];qa:=0.03;da:=0.21;ta:=0.06;ftp:=( (0.85+3)*qa+ (1-qa)*( (0.85+2)*ta + (1-ta)*( (0.85+1)*da + (1-da)*( (0.85+2)*oa3+ (1-oa3)*( (0.85+1)*oa2 +(1-oa2)*0.85))))
+
(1+3)*qa+ (1-qa)*( (1+2)*ta + (1-ta)*( (1+1)*da+(1-da)*1))
+
4*1):d1:=ftp*(d+dd);d1*(pdifm*(1-crit)+pdifc*(crit)*1.07)*0.95*1.3;

returns 4107 which is superior to the simulated value (4050) because I'm capping the number of hits on the WS at 8.

average damage / hit (102 total damage, 1036 attack, 30% crit)

Spoiler: show

att:=1036;pdifm:=pdif(att,560*0.9,0)[3];pdifc:=pdif(att,560*0.9,0)[6];crit:=0.30;102*(pdifm*(1-crit)+pdifc*(crit));

returns 234 so ok for pup.

[Dotsudoku]

I'm not simulation/spreadsheet savvy, but does the Ryunohige portion take Angon into account?

Also a few other little things, like augmented Huginn feet, Phorcys hands, swapping of Rancorous Mantle/Rancor Collar in lieu of the traditional choices. AF3 seems like a strange choice for a Drake's body, as well as the things Yugl mentioned.

I'm not sure of any of these suggestions, and I doubt they'll make dramatic changes, but as long as we're talking about relatively small gaps

edit: Phos+1 also caps equipment haste

[CoreyX]

Now doing kenkonken 99, PUP/WAR (stringing pummel, no puppet damage shown)

Using this gear

Spoiler: show

//TP
gearset[0]="kenkonken 99";gearset[1]="deluxe animator";
gearset[2]="cirque +2";gearset[3]="rancor";gearset[4]="brutal";gearset[5]="ghillie +1";
gearset[6]="thaumas";gearset[7]="nomkahpa";gearset[8]="rajas";gearset[9]="epona";
gearset[10]="pantin";gearset[11]="twilight";gearset[12]="thaumas";gearset[13]="usukane";

// WS
wstype="stringing pummel";
wsset[0]="kenkonken 99";wsset[1]="deluxe animator";
wsset[2]="thaumas";wsset[3]="tjukurrpa";wsset[4]="brutal";wsset[5]="moonshade att/tpbonus";
wsset[6]="thaumas";wsset[7]="athos";wsset[8]="spiral";wsset[9]="epona";
wsset[10]="cavaros";wsset[11]="elemental";wsset[12]="athos";wsset[13]="cirque +2";

706 dps. Details :

Spoiler: show

global dps : 706.541230
acc average : 0.949971
wsacc average : 0.949993
critical rate -melee : 0.300046
critical rate -ws : 0.639550
critical rate -global : 0.396680
melee ratio : 0.503901
melee dmg p/s : 356.027029
WSdmg p/s : 350.514201
round per WS avg : 5.395680
avg Ws dmg : 4035.954512
avg punch incl. : 234.719155
ws att avg : 990.625000
avg hits per round : 3.236897

(note : using 35% base crit for SP as stated on bgwiki)

Verification for average hit/round (29% DA, 6% TA, 3% QA)

Spoiler: show

qa:=0.03:ta:=0.06:da:=0.29a2:=0.40a3:=0.20:ka:=0.02+ qa*3+ (1-qa)*( ta*2+(1-ta)*( da*1 + (1-da)*( oa3*2+(1-oa3)*( oa2*1 + (1-oa2)*0 ))))+qa*3+ (1-qa)*( ta*2+(1-ta)*( da*1 + (1-da)*(0)))+ )*0.95;

which returns 3.23 also

Verification for average WS damage tomorrow (too late).

Since you're using Cirque+2 head, might be better to make the second earring Bruiser's Earring, with 8 merits that brings H2H damage to the next tier. Also, wouldn't Rancorous Mantle be better for Stringing Pummel than cavaros?

[diasetsu]

If you got any use from Rancourous' attack, then yes it would be better, but this simulation has att being capped. With Pummel's high crit rate though that crit damage+ wins slightly. I think overall it is a very minimal difference, however if I am not mistaken once cRatio drops due to higher mob level, the 5% crit should overtake the 3% crit dmg.

[Mercilessturtle]

What's with the usu feet? 7 storetp beats 12 dex, 3 str and 7 atk and 3 double attack from thaumas? Also for hands, if you aren't trying to limit gear to accessible stuff, Tenryu Tekko +1 gives an extra 3 str and 10 attack but 1 less double attack, not sure if that is better or not.

[pchan]

Usu feet are better for the setup I used .

[pchan]

Next is glanzfaust 99 (impetus and focus augment on). First if you use ascetic's fury only.

gear

Spoiler: show

//TP
gearset[0]="glanzfaust 99";gearset[1]="hagneia";
gearset[2]="thaumas";gearset[3]="rancor";gearset[4]="brutal";gearset[5]="moonshade att/reg";
gearset[6]="thaumas";gearset[7]="nomkahpa";gearset[8]="oneiros";gearset[9]="epona";
gearset[10]="atheling";gearset[11]="black belt";gearset[12]="tantra +2";gearset[13]="thaumas";
// WS
wstype="asceticsfury";
wsset[0]="glanzfaust 99";wsset[1]="tantra tathlum";
wsset[2]="thaumas";wsset[3]="gorget";wsset[4]="brutal";wsset[5]="kemas";
wsset[6]="tantra +2";wsset[7]="mustela";wsset[8]="spiral";wsset[9]="epona";
wsset[10]="atheling";wsset[11]="elemental";wsset[12]="calmecac";wsset[13]="kacura";

results 673 dps

Spoiler: show

global dps : 673.208766
acc average : 0.949981
wsacc average : 0.950005
critical rate -melee : 0.532270
critical rate -ws : 0.629738
critical rate -global : 0.546654
melee ratio : 0.619510
melee dmg p/s : 417.059860
WSdmg p/s : 256.148906
round per WS avg : 4.915383
avg Ws dmg : 3001.092086
avg punch incl. KA and DA : 279.348109
ws att avg : 1142.088140,1135.485786
avg hits per round : 3.131293,3.558624

Verifications on average WS damage.

Spoiler: show

str=171, vit=118 => total wsd=440*0.11+3+51+min((171-95+4)/4,14)+0.85*(0.5*171+0.5*118)=239
d+dd=239;oa2:=0.40a3:=0.20:att:=2*1135;crit:=0.63;pdifm:=pdif(att,56 0*0.9,0)[3];pdifc:=pdif(att,560*0.9,0)[6];qa:=0.00;da:=0.25;ta:=0.05;ftp:=( (1.2+3)*qa+ (1-qa)*( (1.2+2)*ta + (1-ta)*( (1.2+1)*da + (1-da)*( (1.2+2)*oa3+ (1-oa3)*( (1.2+1)*oa2 +(1-oa2)*1.2))))+
(1+3)*qa+ (1-qa)*( (1+2)*ta + (1-ta)*( (1+1)*da+(1-da)*1)) ):d1:=ftp*(d+dd);d1*((1-crit)*pdifm+crit*pdifc*1.2)*0.95*1.3;
is returning 2980, so it matches a 20% crit damage up, sounds correct for impetus.

Verfication of the average number of hits per round

Spoiler: show

qa:=0.03:ta:=0.08:da:=0.30a2:=0.40a3:=0.20:ka:=0.272+qa*3+ (1-qa)*( ta*2+(1-ta)*( da*1 + (1-da)*( oa3*2+(1-oa3)*( oa2*1 + (1-oa2)*0 ))))+qa*3+ (1-qa)*( ta*2+(1-ta)*( da*1 + (1-da)*(0)))+
ka
)*0.95;

This returns3.558 so ok.

Verification of the average damage per hit.

Spoiler: show

59 dmg on kick, 115 on melee hits
att:=1102;pdifm:=pdif(att,560*0.9,0)[3];pdifc:=pdif(att,560*0.9,0)[6];crit:=0.532;(pdifm*(1-crit)+pdifc*(crit))*((2+
qa*3+ (1-qa)*( ta*2+(1-ta)*( da*1 + (1-da)*( oa3*2+(1-oa3)*( oa2*1 + (1-oa2)*0 ))))+
qa*3+ (1-qa)*( ta*2+(1-ta)*( da*1 + (1-da)*(0)))

)*115+59*ka)/((2+
qa*3+ (1-qa)*( ta*2+(1-ta)*( da*1 + (1-da)*( oa3*2+(1-oa3)*( oa2*1 + (1-oa2)*0 ))))+
qa*3+ (1-qa)*( ta*2+(1-ta)*( da*1 + (1-da)*(0)))+
ka
))

returns 279 -> ok

Next if you use shijin spiral after the initial 300 tp.

739 dps ; ok it's much better then.

Spoiler: show

global dps : 738.912649
accroissements relatifs : 1.019638
acc average : 0.950047
wsacc average : 0.950104
critical rate -melee : 0.526538
critical rate -ws : 0.000000
critical rate -global : 0.388037
melee ratio : 0.558535
melee dmg p/s : 412.708212
WSdmg p/s : 326.204437
round per WS avg : 4.687990
avg Ws dmg : 3675.252865
avg punch incl. KA and DA : 278.761844
ws dmg impetus : 3557.249342,3675.252862
ws att avg : 1142.089418,1131.289144
avg hits per round : 3.131094,3.558119

verification of average damage per hit and hits/round : same as above;
average WS damage

Spoiler: show

440*0.11+3+51+(149-95+4)/4+0.85*215=298 WSD total
d:=0;dd:=298;
d+dd;oa2:=0.40a3:=0.20:att:=1131*1.05;crit:=0.0;pdifm:=pdif(att, 560*0.9,0)[3];pdifc:=pdif(att,560*0.9,0)[6];qa:=0.00;da:=0.29;ta:=0.06;ftp:=( (1.1625+3)*qa+ (1-qa)*( (1.1625+2)*ta + (1-ta)*( (1.1625+1)*da + (1-da)*( (1.1625+2)*oa3+ (1-oa3)*( (1.1625+1)*oa2 +(1-oa2)*1.1625))))
+
(1+3)*qa+ (1-qa)*( (1+2)*ta + (1-ta)*( (1+1)*da+(1-da)*1))
+3):d1:=ftp*(d+dd);d1*pdifm*0.95;

returns 3678 -> ok

shijin gear :

Spoiler: show

wsset[0]="glanzfaust 99";wsset[1]="demonry";
wsset[2]="ocelomeh +1";wsset[3]="gorget";wsset[4]="brutal";wsset[5]="jupiter";
wsset[6]="toci";wsset[7]="mustela";wsset[8]="thundersoul";wsset[9]="epona";
wsset[10]="atheling";wsset[11]="artful +1";wsset[12]="byakko";wsset[13]="thaumas";

edit : fixed ascetic's fury calculation( bad ftp). Fixed oa2/3 on shijin.

[Byrthnoth]

AM3 applies to all WSs.

[dasva]

AM3 applies to all WSs.

Not ranged or magical ones!

[Byrthnoth]

Magical, but yeah. It applies to all physical ws.

[Mercilessturtle]

Usu feet are better for the setup I used .

I take it your bizarre setup has you capped on str and dex and attack? So 7 storetp beats 3 double attack in your "simulation"? But 6 storetp is worse than 3 double attack since you are using DA gloves instead of cirque+2?