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  1. #201
    Claustrum. Really?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    I guess Scholar might still be useful in Legion just for Stuns, but it's going to be a pain in the ass to do the Corse Tier 1 mob without PD (Let alone the Hydra). It'll still be winnable, but much more of a pain in the ass.
    In all the runs I've done, we've never used PD for anything other than Alicorn (which was 1 group only) and even that seemed unnecessary as we just steamrollered it when it popped in several times Wave 3 with no PD available.

    What does the Hydra have that's dangerous btw? I don't think I've ever seen anyone die to it and this is with 18-25 kills per run of that hall.

    EDIT: To clarify, I've always gone on runs where mobs are stunlocked between 2-3 SCH's so I may not be seeing danagerous moves because of that.

    The Corse can be a dick if Charm gets off but it's generally stunlocked whenever I've done it.

  2. #202
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    I was more stunned about their Embrava changes and their adjustments to the events to compensate for it.

    Dvali Jonah just became the mob that will never be killed.
    Theres no compensation to Legion or ADL about why people were using PD: mobs being able to deal 2k aoe damage at will.
    Lowering Odin's 100k(I'm guessing) HP by 10% means nothing when you've still got 9 Valkyries in there with 30-40k hp to top it off.
    Lowering the Astarium requirement from 25 to 5 is useless considering without Embrava getting to floor 80 should prove to be harder than getting to Floor 100 with Embrava. So instead of one F100 win to get a piece of gear (as well as a potential drop), you're going to need 5 and you wont even get a useful drop?

    Also you cant lock buffs in Nyzul, which was the biggest Embrava advocate imo.


    Once again, Matsui just went from the god who brought life back into the game, to Tanaka's bitch.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by NynJa View Post
    Also you cant lock buffs in Nyzul, which was the biggest Embrava advocate imo.
    Actually you can lock TR there on killing floors, I have. You just need to follow around your DD for a few seconds until someone gets a crate to drop from a mob.

  4. #204

    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    So the duration of PD from a skilled and geared summoner will probably be around 56 seconds. Summoner mules with shit skill? Pretty much useless.

    That's probably still enough for ADL as long as you get the right clone.

    The Embrava nerf makes it strategically useless.
    The win rate is divided by 2 basically. It means the price on marrows will double ^^. Nyzul is no longer winnable with 4 DD 2 sch, but you will need 4 DD 1 BRD 1 WHM now with bard staying at tele. It's still doable 1% of the time, rejoice.

  5. #205
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    maybe its a bit overraction, but I need to see first where the new 2 hours settle into this and open "maybe" some new possibilitys.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slycer View Post
    Actually you can lock TR there on killing floors, I have. You just need to follow around your DD for a few seconds until someone gets a crate to drop from a mob.
    I dont see that stretching out TR all that much, and its, like all of NNI, completely reliant on luck.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by NynJa View Post
    I dont see that stretching out TR all that much, and its, like all of NNI, completely reliant on luck.
    Crate drop rate is really high, I've never not been able to lock it when I was actually looking to do so on a killing floor. I've done it many times just to extend the duration by another 30~60 seconds (plus the duration is locked in the transitions between floors which adds some additional time). All that considered, and throwing on the augmented relic+2 pants for good measure (another 30 seconds on TR), you could probably get about 9~10 minutes worth of the gimped duration embrava from one SCH. But since the effect is gimped too (regain was probably the most important part considering all the running), that's not really very meaningful anymore. I don't think it will be completely useless in Nyzul since the regen is still powerful and stacks with regen 5, and the haste is still good, but it will probably be relatively pointless to have 2 SCH instead of 1.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damane View Post
    maybe its a bit overraction, but I need to see first where the new 2 hours settle into this and open "maybe" some new possibilitys.
    Agreed, as they specified in their full post, this Embrava/PD nerf is really part of the whole package with the decreased and split SP timers.

  9. #209
    Claustrum. Really?
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    I've always believed ADL to be killable without PD. Usually if you lose it's because he resummons more than once. That can be because he got a Tera Slash off which took out multiple DD's or you got Implosioned or he just seemed to resummon quick. Basically scenarios where the second clone doesn't die before resummoning.

    Rarely do you lose because he's massacred you all before resummoning. Yes that's partially because you PD but it's also because his damage output isn't that massive, you basically have to survive the initial double TP move and after that it's no different to dealing with him pre-split where everyone agrees he's more than manageable. You have a possible extra -aga and 1 more DD being meleed, it isn't that much more damage.

    The problem arises on resummon when you've got do deal with a Triple/Quadruple TP move immediately + 3-4 clones casting/thwacking people.

    At the 2 clone stage he's more than manageable (imo) with EA/Scherzo + stuns + quick debuff removals + WHM's dropping curagas. At 3+ clones he's unmanageable but you generally lose at 3+ clones even with PD.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    I've always believed ADL to be killable without PD. Usually if you lose it's because he resummons more than once. That can be because he got a Tera Slash off which took out multiple DD's or you got Implosioned or he just seemed to resummon quick. Basically scenarios where the second clone doesn't die before resummoning.

    Rarely do you lose because he's massacred you all before resummoning. Yes that's partially because you PD but it's also because his damage output isn't that massive, you basically have to survive the initial double TP move and after that it's no different to dealing with him pre-split where everyone agrees he's more than manageable. You have a possible extra -aga and 1 more DD being meleed, it isn't that much more damage.

    The problem arises on resummon when you've got do deal with a Triple/Quadruple TP move immediately + 3-4 clones casting/thwacking people.

    At the 2 clone stage he's more than manageable (imo) with EA/Scherzo + stuns + quick debuff removals + WHM's dropping curagas. At 3+ clones he's unmanageable but you generally lose at 3+ clones even with PD.
    you are underestimating the debuff immunity of PD... If your support is dead due to massive AoE range that goes beyoned 25' or 30' and you get paralygad or breakgad there will be noone there to stona the melees. PD wasnt only damage mitgation, but it also had status ailment immunity.
    I can survive the AoE of the first split on sch fine with my PDT/MDT gear and stoneskin (depending on the move leaving me from 400 HP left to near full HP lefte). But getting off first para and silence on yourself is shitty before you can help the melees. Imho would agree with you fully if you could kepe your support out of AoE range while they could due their dutys.

  11. #211

    No lol, you should try it without PD. Apparently every month or so it changes to melee to mage mode. Right now it's on melee mode on quetz, which means when you pop it it does very little spells and 1 bad tp move prior to 50% (the first TP move is his drain/aspir one). They will hurt but if your a quick on echo drops and paralyna you can survive until 60%, but after that the double tp move when it splits will kill you w/o PD. If it is on mage mode, it basically casts 3 aga tier III nukes prior to you actually being engaged, needless to say, you lose™.

    Also, I coorect my nyzul statement , and the best NNI setup would be

    DDx4 that don't suck, you know what they are, /nin
    DDB99 bard singing marchx2 paeonx2
    SMN for hastega and mvt speed

    sneak/invisible every floors from /SCH, you can win level 80 if you don't get many kill all.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by pchan View Post
    sneak/invisible every floors from /SCH, you can win level 80 if you don't get many kill all.
    You are aware that getting F80 without Embrava is going to be harder than getting to F100 with embrava, and to top it off, you'll have to reach it 5 times for 1 piece of gear...one piece of gear that you could get off F100 WITH potential drops from the NM itself.

    The haste was nice, the regen was nice...the real bread and butter was the regain, since of those 30 minutes, you spend about 20 running around disengaged.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by NynJa View Post
    You are aware that getting F80 without Embrava is going to be harder than getting to F100 with embrava, and to top it off, you'll have to reach it 5 times for 1 piece of gear...one piece of gear that you could get off F100 WITH potential drops from the NM itself.

    The haste was nice, the regen was nice...the real bread and butter was the regain, since of those 30 minutes, you spend about 20 running around disengaged.
    so go go go BLU that doesnt rely on TP but rather on MP for dmg? replace the melees by BLUs that use MP for majority of their dmg and replace the sch by brd! Same effect! (i know not nearly the same effect at all)

    i could see a group of 4x BLU, BRD for refresh and insert some beneficial job that stays at lamp (COR?) being competent enough to hit floor 80 alot of the time

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    In all the runs I've done, we've never used PD for anything other than Alicorn (which was 1 group only) and even that seemed unnecessary as we just steamrollered it when it popped in several times Wave 3 with no PD available.

    What does the Hydra have that's dangerous btw? I don't think I've ever seen anyone die to it and this is with 18-25 kills per run of that hall.

    EDIT: To clarify, I've always gone on runs where mobs are stunlocked between 2-3 SCH's so I may not be seeing danagerous moves because of that.

    The Corse can be a dick if Charm gets off but it's generally stunlocked whenever I've done it.
    Danse is too fast to stun, in my opinion. We can resort to stun locking him if we have to, but it's AoE and we only use three melee these days. If one gets off we're fairly fucked. The Hydra can do Nerve gas and is fairly resistant to stun, but we've taken him down with 0-1 TP moves the last three runs.

    Do your stunners use OnEvent? The difference between bot and manual stunners may only be 99 vs. 95%, but when one TP move will wipe you it's a big deal. We don't use a bot and do use Scherzo on our melee party and it works fine, but this set of nerfs is going to necessitate bard swapping and fighting annoying monsters without immunity to their status effects.

  15. #215
    Claustrum. Really?
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    Maybe when you're triboxing it does that before re-engaging. I've never had an issue engaging directly after it does the Double TP move unless I was in a stupid position and it ruptured. How 2 clones manage to get 3 spells off before you re-engage is beyond me. You would have to be ridiculously slow to let them TP + Cast and then Cast again before you re-engaged or stunned or anything else.

    Like Damane said, my biggest reservation would be the status debuffs rather the damage. And whilst it isn't implemented yet, the new WHM 2hr would help with this. Just depends if it comes before or after the PD nerf.

    50 seconds is also adequate time to down 2 clones. It just means you have to wait until he's splitting to PD and also not have shit SMN skill. There's a bit more risk to it but its doable.

    PD nerf is obviously going to reduce winrate but not by anywhere near 50%. imo.

  16. #216

    It's 3 spells off before you engage it after you *pop* it.

  17. #217
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    nvm

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    50 seconds is also adequate time to down 2 clones. It just means you have to wait until he's splitting to PD and also not have shit SMN skill. There's a bit more risk to it but its doable.
    Don't forget since they specified the effect isn't changing, it can be assumed that it will still begin to decline at 50% of the duration. So that'd be just 25 seconds of full strength PD with a 50 second max duration.

  19. #219

    Quote Originally Posted by Yugl View Post
    Seconding this post; especially, the bold portion lol. I look at Mojo's picture and think "I should have totally taken advantage", but then remember that I really just cannot rally myself to do stuff.
    I'll third it, have like 10 mil cruor or so, and could never be assed to run back and forth to npcs lol.

  20. #220
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    so basically everyone will kill n-1 clones of ADL. well this sucks my win rate will drop from 87% to 50% and I will have to ungimp 2 SMN mules. Time to hoard marrows while I can get 5 every two days.

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