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  1. #1321
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    Is there a name for the unusual terrain to the far northwest of Camp Tranquil? I always thought it interesting, but don't recall a name for it, and I'd be surprised if we end up around that area with the focus being elsewhere.

  2. #1322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stef View Post
    So our suspicions were confirmed yesterday during the lore panel:



    The Au Ra aren't really dragons, which means Ishgard shouldn't necessarily have a problem with them.
    And yet...
    http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/umadori07...e/ae53f593.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooke View Post
    Is there a name for the unusual terrain to the far northwest of Camp Tranquil? I always thought it interesting, but don't recall a name for it, and I'd be surprised if we end up around that area with the focus being elsewhere.
    That's suppose to be West Shroud, where we originally had the Moogle King fight in 1.0. According to a lore panel (fan fest?), it got really messed up by the Calamity and it's been recovering ever since. It's one of the zones we never got back with ARR along with the southern half of Mor Dhona and 4 zones of Coerthas (though we're getting one of them back in Heavensward).

  3. #1323
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    The exact landmark you're asking about Pooke has never been named but original concept art shown off for ARR implied it'd be important lol.

    I made the same remark too btw Lokus, internal concept art has them as "Race_Dragon" but Yoshida went through great pains to refer to them as demonic/based on demons during the Nico event lol

  4. #1324

    Makes me wonder why tho, they were conceived and designed as draconic/serpentine.

    lore reasons? <_>

  5. #1325

    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    lore reasons? <_>
    Yoshi wanted demonic race. Players wanted draconian race. So he made a demonic race, called it draconian and people bought it.

  6. #1326

    Looks more like they made a draconian race, called it demonic, and people were confused.

  7. #1327
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    Demonic dragons.

  8. #1328

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    that's the funniest sig I ever seen.

    And cannot has mmo without horned race, nope.

  9. #1329
    YOU BLACK, MIDNIGHT, EVIL MOTHERFUCKERS!!! BLACK MAGIC, DARKNESS!!! YOU RAW, DARKNESS!!! YOU, FUCKING, DELIRIOUS MOTHERFUCKER!
    You were cold as ice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    Makes me wonder why tho, they were conceived and designed as draconic/serpentine.

    lore reasons? <_>
    Well they've mentioned waaaaaaay back in 2014 Fan Fest that Au Ra women were designed so that they could be made to look like Succubi, so they may have changed the concept for lore reasons since then. They would be hard pressed to explain why dragon people could be in the city of Ishgard while they are in an ongoing war with dragons.

    In the transcript that Slycer posted recently it does mention that Au Ra will be somewhat scorned for looking like dragons in Lower Ishgard (despite being demons) -- maybe that's some remnant of how they originally tried to work the story. Then again we don't know the story at all -- they might be dragon people who are called demons in the story itself, who knows.

  10. #1330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seha View Post
    Demonic dragons.
    Technically this is the correct reason.

    From your favourite white guy in Japan Koji M Fox.

    Why does "doragon" have to mean dragons (龍)?
    Why can't they be devils (悪魔)?
    They can be demons!

    Apparently, that actual conversation happened during the Lore panel.
    It was from a transcript on one of the 2ch matome sites but I can't find it now anymore because they're all filled with Aura♀ kawaii!!!!!!! screenshots.

  11. #1331
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    Jp site talking about benchmark had a new piece of art that gives some hints for Heavensward.
    Spoiler: show


    Einstien and Iceheart possibly our new "party" for the storyline. Dragon might be Nidhogg as it looks like hes missing an eye but its hard to think he would meet so amicably.

  12. #1332
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    It's always amicable until you say the wrong thing... then its on!

  13. #1333
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    the good quality version of the celestial dragons artwork is out, get hype

  14. #1334
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    Can you imagine Lady Iceheart fuckin all those dongs

  15. #1335
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    Bunch of theories/musings about the coming expansion since I'm a little bored and the lull between patches this time is more unbearable because I know how much HW will probably bring in terms of Lore.

    At the risk of being a total fucking weeaboo I'm gonna call the wyrmlords "Tenryu" since it's not certain if heavenly/celestial will be the localization yet. Here's a picture of the dragons numbered for easy reference in my ramblings:
    Spoiler: show


    I'm usually against heavy speculation and what not considering the expansion is fairly "close" but I've got nothing better to do right now and I wanna see how ridiculous my ideas are. After all, prior to 2.55 I thought killing Nanamo off was impossible.

    Spoiler: show
    The immediate problem with the picture of the tenryu above is it doesn't clearly depict Bahamut. We've been led to believe through some interview (idr if it was Famitsu or Reddit) that Bahamut is, in fact, a tenryu-- a son of Midgardsormr (#8).

    But Bahamut is said to be one of the first brood! The progenitor of the Meracydian dragons! This does not directly imply he is from Midgardsormr's issue, he could be a grandchild of Midgardsormr or some such.

    Dragons in XIV, at least the greater wyrms in particular, have always appeared quasi-deific. They are immortal and possess the ability to warp a mortal's mind. While defectors/dragon sympathizers being heretics is a perfectly understandable idea, there are a few instances in the main scenario which make it clear that eventually those 'touched' by the dragons succumb to madness. This could be explained away as people's sanity breaking down after a thousand years of wars but I think the fact dragons are nigh immortal gives credence to the idea they possess supernatural powers. Also they're fucking dragons.

    There's a fucked up draconic hierachy and the only way for-sures we know are:
    Dragons (Svara, etc) > Biast > Aevis > Puks. That's right Biast are of a higher social strata in Dravanian society than Aevis, it doesn't seem like it'd be that way since they're more bestial but who knows wtf. There were Peistes in Coerthas known as Wyrmhounds though it's uncertain if they were "wyrmhounds" taught to hunt wyrms by the Ishgardians or "hounds" taught by the wyrms.

    Midgardsormr (#8) was far more emaciated in 1.0 as the Keeper of the Lake, it always bothered me his body was much fuller in 2.0, but thinking more on it, that could've been a subtle hint at his regeneration. I'm beginning to think Nidhogg (#1)'s roar was less what woke Midgardsormr so much as the Calamity. Also how fitting the original Mor Dhona 1.0 battle theme was "Phantoms on the Lake" and now we fight Mirage Dragons on the Lake in 2.0. I don't quite understand the Mirage Dragons btw, they're definitely not dragons present at the Battle of Silvertear Skies I think, as we know dragon corpses decay and that'd be 15-20 years. A more likely scenario, imo, is that the Garlean salvagers and Dravanian pilgrims met in battle on the Agrius' ruins and the Garlean gunships succeeding in felling the two dragons. After all Midgardsormr (#8) makes it clear they're dead "ye shall live once more" and what-not. Also, the battlefield is the "Forsworn Promise;" is it we who forswear Hydaelyn's Blessing?

    Oh yes, Nidhogg is probably most assuredly #1 thanks to the picture Nama linked. He's missing an eye and we see Estinien and Iceheart before him. Additionally, he looks a lot like the myriad of Dravanians in the Heavensward trailer, leading me to believe these are more accurately Nidhogg's progeny, fighting for their father's cause and what-not. The Dragonsong War, I feel like, will boil down to Nidhogg wanting his eye back; I feel this way because as I stated before even normal dragons possess extreme supernatural / quasi-deific power and are, pretty much, immortal. That is to say, we've never heard of a dragon dying of old age--Midgardsormr lived for millenia, and we know Nidhogg has lived at least one himself. (Fun fact: Assuming each Astral Era lasts roughly as long as the 6th Astral (1.0) and about a decade for each Umbral Era, that makes Midgardsormr ~9100 years old. The great span and magnitude of a dragon's life makes everything feel very fucked up though.

    Like, really? Nidhogg has lived for at least a thousand years, roughly twenty years ago he was awake and just razing villages in Coerthas and now he's going to sack the Ishgardian capital? What's changed? Why the sudden upstep in aggression? How the fuck are immortal dragons caught in a stalemate with mortals? The only thing I can think of is that the Ascians have always been involved with Ishgard thus making it a battle of immortals vs immortals or that the Dravanians are beholden to some sort of code to not just fucking wipe out the entire civilization of man. (After all, as long as man is suffered to remain, the dragons will never be at peace.)

    We know Ishgard has been at war with Dravania for over a thousand years, but "as long as man is suffered to remain" is a bit awkward as well. The Sharlayans settled IN Dravania, and as far as we know, never had any issues with the dragons whatsoever. Additionally mankind has existed as far back as the Third Astral Era (and in fact, we know Miqote are from Meracydia so it's likely that's how Graha Tia fits into the Allagan bloodline puzzle) So the ancient Meracydian dragons wanted to exterminate all of mankind because Amon and Xande were major dicks, and Dravania seems content with just wiping out Ishgard. Another random point is the only species we know to be somewhat ubiquitous across Eorzea seem to be humanity and dragons.

    Could it be the uptick in Dravanian aggression has less to do with Nidhogg (#1) than we think? Perhaps Hræsvelgr (#6) is to blame? (btw various fansites given the celestial dragon artwork from SE state the white & black dragons as Nidhogg and Hræsvelgr so that's where this info comes from) The Norse lore for Hræsvelgr is a bit weird tho; a giant-eagle sounds more like dragon #1 than #6. Additionally the contrast of Nidhogg and Hræsvelgr is pretty cool since one lives "beneath the world tree" and the other at the "northern edge of the heavens" However, in Eorzea, both dragons appear to be located in the Churning Mists (the Sea of Clouds above Dravania). Which is which could be debated excepting the white dragon (#1) seems to be very clearly missing an eye in the close concept art w/ the WoL party meeting him.

    Rather, perhaps the legends are wrong? Truth interpreted is truth transformed and all that. Perhaps the dragon Thordan met at the founding of Ishgard was not Nidhogg but Hraesvelgr? Again in the Ishgardian founding myth we have stories told of lesser man being "bewitched" by dragons and taking up arms for them. Another possibility is that Ishgard was not built on Halone's chosen peak-- perhaps instead the great peak in northern Abalathia's Spine is the peak the Ishgardians truly wished to settle. That which is now in the hands of the Dravanians (some people have called the peak "Bahamut's Egg" but I can't find source material for this). Could it be Ishgard the city-state was intended to be a sort of base camp for them to probe deeper and higher into Abalathia, but over the centuries this was slowly forgotten. The highest peak in Eorzea being the true "prize" of the Dragonsong War would be interesting-- as for the Ishgardians being led there by Halone... well... typically when people speak to their gods the Paragons are involved in some fashion, and it would not surprise me here either.

    We know Midgardsormr was tasked with protecting the seal on Silvertear Lake (which he actually pretty particularly failed at, let's not forget). Silvertear Lake is, essentially, the heart of all magic in Hydaelyn being the center of the Lifestream/aether--it could be that the highest peak in Eorzea holds a similar importance and that's why the dragons guard it as jealously as they do. Could the return of the Paragons to Ishgard be the reasoning behind the Dravanian's renewed assault on Ishgard.

    The Ascians in Ishgard fits pretty canonically too. We finally liberate the Stone Vigil in 2.3 (which has been redoubled by dragons after Isgebind's fall) and the end of 2.3 is when we see the Ascians alongside the Ishgardian archbishop and the beginnings of Lady Iceheart's heretic clan aggression. We all assumed the Ascians were the ones who groomed Iceheart to become Shiva, but what if perhaps she was set in motion by Nidhogg? She quotes Hydaelyn to us (assuming we believe Answers' female vocalist to be Hydaelyn anyways) which is something the agent of the Ascians probably wouldn't do. We also know the dragons and Hydaelyn share some sort of closeness with Midgardsormr's pact. Maybe perhaps then Iceheart becoming Shiva was less Nidhogg's intent than Iceheart's own solution to the problem of Ishgard, but nonetheless Iceheart and Midgardsormr seem less at odds with Hydaelyn than Ishgard.

    Perhaps we're all overthinking this a bit and the dire situation Ishgard is in is because of the quickness with which Nidhogg has decided to assault the city. Previously, he slept for about a century between attacks, but this time he's slept much less. Again tho, why? Was it the return of Shiva? Was it Bahamut's dispersal to the aether? Something has woken up Nidhogg early, was it perhaps Hræsvelgr? What of the other tenryu? So many questions still.

    Why the fuck were there dragons in Brayflox's Longstop? Why is that our only encounter with dragons outside of Coerthas? Are deathgaze a type of dragon? Actually, looking at Anonymoose's taxonomy work on gamerescape, no deathgaze are not a type of dragon but rather cloudkin.

    These are scalekin though, which means they might be able to be considered "dragons" if they possess a degree of consciousness: adamantoise, aevis, croc, dragonfly, drake, eft, gornych, hydra, peiste, puk, raptor, sea dragon, serpent/snake, wyrm, wyvern, ziz. The only ones I have issue with are adamantoise, eft, puk and ziz-- and he has dragons (like XI's shadow dragon) there but I definitely think they're more voidsent.

    Anyways, I've sufficiently rehyped myself for another few weeks now and have forgotten where I was going so here's a big list of shit:
    Dragons born of the tenryu either begin life similar to their holy parent or grow into a mirror. The natural lifespan of a dragon is over a thousand years and during this time they undergo radical mental and physical changes. I wouldn't be surprised if it's analogous to some sort of pokemon evolution shit lol and dragonflies grow into wyverns into aevis into biast into wyrms into mini-tenryu.
    Dragons and humanity likely coexisted peacefully before the rise of the Allagans in Eorzea, Akh Afah Amphitheatre and various ruins shown in teasers contain dragon statues / doors + seating for humans but are pretty "draconic."
    The off-the-cuff comment about Yoshida wanting the FMV guy to change the trailer bridge dragon to pink/red instead of white is so when we meet Nidhogg later (who is a larger white version of the dragon) people didn't get confused.
    Heavensward story probably like "oh man Nidhogg is attacking Ishgard, go try to stop him" and Alphinaud qqing and like "let's try for peace" and then Iceheart is like "mankind can never be at peace with dragons as long as Ishgard has Nidhogg's eye" and something like Nidhogg having 2 eyes is actually more beneficial to Hydaelyn and Hræsvelgr is using Nidhogg's partial blindness to fan the flames of war between mortal and immortal and Hræsvelgr just wants to subjugate the world and have dragons rule as the rightful kings of the world and Nidhogg keeps him in check but he needs 2 eyes and now Hræsvelgr has woken up again and this is the first time Hræsvelgr woke up w/ Nidhogg missing an eye and he's capitalizing on it somehow. Then after we resolve the conflict between Nidhogg, Hræsvelgr and Ishgard, the other 5 tenryu wake up and are pissy pants (3.x+) and we begin to unravel the Ascian involvement even further (while dealing with their primal shenanigans during 3.0) and then the Dravanians summon Shinryu (their primal in like 3.4+) and the Monetarists try to like rent Omega out to Ishgard to fight Shinryu so we have to end up stealing/fighting Omega and then Shinryu.

    I really lost track of myself, but anyways the Scions prob aren't dead either, but Nanamo prob is and Raubahn is prob gonna escape Marajasa Pit at the last possible moment to save Ul'dah and our asses. Urianger might get corrupted or begin to see the Ascian's point of view, but I find this unlikely. The Isle of Val will probably be confirmed to be sent to the Void and that'll be our 24-man since it was confirmed the FF6 Floating Allagan Continent wouldn't be a raid. Alexander is probably what's draining the world's aether atm and was probably summoned by the Illuminati into a derelict Allagan warmachine (another thing made to house a primal's essence) and we have to go in and deactivate it by fighting off automated Allagan defense systems and shit.

    The end.


    I really began to lose my train of thought at some points, whoops.

  16. #1336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    Bunch of theories/musings about the coming expansion since I'm a little bored and the lull between patches this time is more unbearable because I know how much HW will probably bring in terms of Lore.

    At the risk of being a total fucking weeaboo I'm gonna call the wyrmlords "Tenryu" since it's not certain if heavenly/celestial will be the localization yet. Here's a picture of the dragons numbered for easy reference in my ramblings:
    Spoiler: show


    I'm usually against heavy speculation and what not considering the expansion is fairly "close" but I've got nothing better to do right now and I wanna see how ridiculous my ideas are. After all, prior to 2.55 I thought killing Nanamo off was impossible.

    Spoiler: show
    The immediate problem with the picture of the tenryu above is it doesn't clearly depict Bahamut. We've been led to believe through some interview (idr if it was Famitsu or Reddit) that Bahamut is, in fact, a tenryu-- a son of Midgardsormr (#8).

    But Bahamut is said to be one of the first brood! The progenitor of the Meracydian dragons! This does not directly imply he is from Midgardsormr's issue, he could be a grandchild of Midgardsormr or some such.

    Dragons in XIV, at least the greater wyrms in particular, have always appeared quasi-deific. They are immortal and possess the ability to warp a mortal's mind. While defectors/dragon sympathizers being heretics is a perfectly understandable idea, there are a few instances in the main scenario which make it clear that eventually those 'touched' by the dragons succumb to madness. This could be explained away as people's sanity breaking down after a thousand years of wars but I think the fact dragons are nigh immortal gives credence to the idea they possess supernatural powers. Also they're fucking dragons.

    There's a fucked up draconic hierachy and the only way for-sures we know are:
    Dragons (Svara, etc) > Biast > Aevis > Puks. That's right Biast are of a higher social strata in Dravanian society than Aevis, it doesn't seem like it'd be that way since they're more bestial but who knows wtf. There were Peistes in Coerthas known as Wyrmhounds though it's uncertain if they were "wyrmhounds" taught to hunt wyrms by the Ishgardians or "hounds" taught by the wyrms.

    Midgardsormr (#8) was far more emaciated in 1.0 as the Keeper of the Lake, it always bothered me his body was much fuller in 2.0, but thinking more on it, that could've been a subtle hint at his regeneration. I'm beginning to think Nidhogg (#1)'s roar was less what woke Midgardsormr so much as the Calamity. Also how fitting the original Mor Dhona 1.0 battle theme was "Phantoms on the Lake" and now we fight Mirage Dragons on the Lake in 2.0. I don't quite understand the Mirage Dragons btw, they're definitely not dragons present at the Battle of Silvertear Skies I think, as we know dragon corpses decay and that'd be 15-20 years. A more likely scenario, imo, is that the Garlean salvagers and Dravanian pilgrims met in battle on the Agrius' ruins and the Garlean gunships succeeding in felling the two dragons. After all Midgardsormr (#8) makes it clear they're dead "ye shall live once more" and what-not. Also, the battlefield is the "Forsworn Promise;" is it we who forswear Hydaelyn's Blessing?

    Oh yes, Nidhogg is probably most assuredly #1 thanks to the picture Nama linked. He's missing an eye and we see Estinien and Iceheart before him. Additionally, he looks a lot like the myriad of Dravanians in the Heavensward trailer, leading me to believe these are more accurately Nidhogg's progeny, fighting for their father's cause and what-not. The Dragonsong War, I feel like, will boil down to Nidhogg wanting his eye back; I feel this way because as I stated before even normal dragons possess extreme supernatural / quasi-deific power and are, pretty much, immortal. That is to say, we've never heard of a dragon dying of old age--Midgardsormr lived for millenia, and we know Nidhogg has lived at least one himself. (Fun fact: Assuming each Astral Era lasts roughly as long as the 6th Astral (1.0) and about a decade for each Umbral Era, that makes Midgardsormr ~9100 years old. The great span and magnitude of a dragon's life makes everything feel very fucked up though.

    Like, really? Nidhogg has lived for at least a thousand years, roughly twenty years ago he was awake and just razing villages in Coerthas and now he's going to sack the Ishgardian capital? What's changed? Why the sudden upstep in aggression? How the fuck are immortal dragons caught in a stalemate with mortals? The only thing I can think of is that the Ascians have always been involved with Ishgard thus making it a battle of immortals vs immortals or that the Dravanians are beholden to some sort of code to not just fucking wipe out the entire civilization of man. (After all, as long as man is suffered to remain, the dragons will never be at peace.)

    We know Ishgard has been at war with Dravania for over a thousand years, but "as long as man is suffered to remain" is a bit awkward as well. The Sharlayans settled IN Dravania, and as far as we know, never had any issues with the dragons whatsoever. Additionally mankind has existed as far back as the Third Astral Era (and in fact, we know Miqote are from Meracydia so it's likely that's how Graha Tia fits into the Allagan bloodline puzzle) So the ancient Meracydian dragons wanted to exterminate all of mankind because Amon and Xande were major dicks, and Dravania seems content with just wiping out Ishgard. Another random point is the only species we know to be somewhat ubiquitous across Eorzea seem to be humanity and dragons.

    Could it be the uptick in Dravanian aggression has less to do with Nidhogg (#1) than we think? Perhaps Hræsvelgr (#6) is to blame? (btw various fansites given the celestial dragon artwork from SE state the white & black dragons as Nidhogg and Hræsvelgr so that's where this info comes from) The Norse lore for Hræsvelgr is a bit weird tho; a giant-eagle sounds more like dragon #1 than #6. Additionally the contrast of Nidhogg and Hræsvelgr is pretty cool since one lives "beneath the world tree" and the other at the "northern edge of the heavens" However, in Eorzea, both dragons appear to be located in the Churning Mists (the Sea of Clouds above Dravania). Which is which could be debated excepting the white dragon (#1) seems to be very clearly missing an eye in the close concept art w/ the WoL party meeting him.

    Rather, perhaps the legends are wrong? Truth interpreted is truth transformed and all that. Perhaps the dragon Thordan met at the founding of Ishgard was not Nidhogg but Hraesvelgr? Again in the Ishgardian founding myth we have stories told of lesser man being "bewitched" by dragons and taking up arms for them. Another possibility is that Ishgard was not built on Halone's chosen peak-- perhaps instead the great peak in northern Abalathia's Spine is the peak the Ishgardians truly wished to settle. That which is now in the hands of the Dravanians (some people have called the peak "Bahamut's Egg" but I can't find source material for this). Could it be Ishgard the city-state was intended to be a sort of base camp for them to probe deeper and higher into Abalathia, but over the centuries this was slowly forgotten. The highest peak in Eorzea being the true "prize" of the Dragonsong War would be interesting-- as for the Ishgardians being led there by Halone... well... typically when people speak to their gods the Paragons are involved in some fashion, and it would not surprise me here either.

    We know Midgardsormr was tasked with protecting the seal on Silvertear Lake (which he actually pretty particularly failed at, let's not forget). Silvertear Lake is, essentially, the heart of all magic in Hydaelyn being the center of the Lifestream/aether--it could be that the highest peak in Eorzea holds a similar importance and that's why the dragons guard it as jealously as they do. Could the return of the Paragons to Ishgard be the reasoning behind the Dravanian's renewed assault on Ishgard.

    The Ascians in Ishgard fits pretty canonically too. We finally liberate the Stone Vigil in 2.3 (which has been redoubled by dragons after Isgebind's fall) and the end of 2.3 is when we see the Ascians alongside the Ishgardian archbishop and the beginnings of Lady Iceheart's heretic clan aggression. We all assumed the Ascians were the ones who groomed Iceheart to become Shiva, but what if perhaps she was set in motion by Nidhogg? She quotes Hydaelyn to us (assuming we believe Answers' female vocalist to be Hydaelyn anyways) which is something the agent of the Ascians probably wouldn't do. We also know the dragons and Hydaelyn share some sort of closeness with Midgardsormr's pact. Maybe perhaps then Iceheart becoming Shiva was less Nidhogg's intent than Iceheart's own solution to the problem of Ishgard, but nonetheless Iceheart and Midgardsormr seem less at odds with Hydaelyn than Ishgard.

    Perhaps we're all overthinking this a bit and the dire situation Ishgard is in is because of the quickness with which Nidhogg has decided to assault the city. Previously, he slept for about a century between attacks, but this time he's slept much less. Again tho, why? Was it the return of Shiva? Was it Bahamut's dispersal to the aether? Something has woken up Nidhogg early, was it perhaps Hræsvelgr? What of the other tenryu? So many questions still.

    Why the fuck were there dragons in Brayflox's Longstop? Why is that our only encounter with dragons outside of Coerthas? Are deathgaze a type of dragon? Actually, looking at Anonymoose's taxonomy work on gamerescape, no deathgaze are not a type of dragon but rather cloudkin.

    These are scalekin though, which means they might be able to be considered "dragons" if they possess a degree of consciousness: adamantoise, aevis, croc, dragonfly, drake, eft, gornych, hydra, peiste, puk, raptor, sea dragon, serpent/snake, wyrm, wyvern, ziz. The only ones I have issue with are adamantoise, eft, puk and ziz-- and he has dragons (like XI's shadow dragon) there but I definitely think they're more voidsent.

    Anyways, I've sufficiently rehyped myself for another few weeks now and have forgotten where I was going so here's a big list of shit:
    Dragons born of the tenryu either begin life similar to their holy parent or grow into a mirror. The natural lifespan of a dragon is over a thousand years and during this time they undergo radical mental and physical changes. I wouldn't be surprised if it's analogous to some sort of pokemon evolution shit lol and dragonflies grow into wyverns into aevis into biast into wyrms into mini-tenryu.
    Dragons and humanity likely coexisted peacefully before the rise of the Allagans in Eorzea, Akh Afah Amphitheatre and various ruins shown in teasers contain dragon statues / doors + seating for humans but are pretty "draconic."
    The off-the-cuff comment about Yoshida wanting the FMV guy to change the trailer bridge dragon to pink/red instead of white is so when we meet Nidhogg later (who is a larger white version of the dragon) people didn't get confused.
    Heavensward story probably like "oh man Nidhogg is attacking Ishgard, go try to stop him" and Alphinaud qqing and like "let's try for peace" and then Iceheart is like "mankind can never be at peace with dragons as long as Ishgard has Nidhogg's eye" and something like Nidhogg having 2 eyes is actually more beneficial to Hydaelyn and Hræsvelgr is using Nidhogg's partial blindness to fan the flames of war between mortal and immortal and Hræsvelgr just wants to subjugate the world and have dragons rule as the rightful kings of the world and Nidhogg keeps him in check but he needs 2 eyes and now Hræsvelgr has woken up again and this is the first time Hræsvelgr woke up w/ Nidhogg missing an eye and he's capitalizing on it somehow. Then after we resolve the conflict between Nidhogg, Hræsvelgr and Ishgard, the other 5 tenryu wake up and are pissy pants (3.x+) and we begin to unravel the Ascian involvement even further (while dealing with their primal shenanigans during 3.0) and then the Dravanians summon Shinryu (their primal in like 3.4+) and the Monetarists try to like rent Omega out to Ishgard to fight Shinryu so we have to end up stealing/fighting Omega and then Shinryu.

    I really lost track of myself, but anyways the Scions prob aren't dead either, but Nanamo prob is and Raubahn is prob gonna escape Marajasa Pit at the last possible moment to save Ul'dah and our asses. Urianger might get corrupted or begin to see the Ascian's point of view, but I find this unlikely. The Isle of Val will probably be confirmed to be sent to the Void and that'll be our 24-man since it was confirmed the FF6 Floating Allagan Continent wouldn't be a raid. Alexander is probably what's draining the world's aether atm and was probably summoned by the Illuminati into a derelict Allagan warmachine (another thing made to house a primal's essence) and we have to go in and deactivate it by fighting off automated Allagan defense systems and shit.

    The end.


    I really began to lose my train of thought at some points, whoops.
    What if...
    Spoiler: show
    Bahamut isn't Midgardsormr's son in the traditional sense. With the Meracydian's departing from the Dravanian's, Midgardsormr could have taught them the secrets of summoning as a way to protect themselves from unforeseeable dangers, as they'd have been outside of his protective influence. If true then in a sense the primal version of Bahamut could be poetically considered a son of Midgardsormr.

  17. #1337
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    The connection people are trying to establish between Midgardsormr and Bahamut is based on the following:

    In Turn 12, Lousioix says:
    Desperate for salvation, the dragons prayed to one of the first brood - to their ancestor Bahamut. Infused by the power of their fervent supplications, Bahamut arose from the abyss of death and took wing as the Meracydian's newborn god.
    Now Midgardsormr told us that he fathered seven sons (also known as the seven heavenly dragons, pictured in the artwork that Rocl posted:
    Seven children did I sire. One now singeth of retribution.
    Lastly, in an interview, Yoshida said:
    The 7 heavenly dragons will be key to the Ishgard quest. Nidhogg, Bahamut, Tiamat, and more. Bahamut's story of how he was summoned and captured will also be revealed.
    -----

    So we know Bahamut was alive at some point and that he was part of the first brood of dragons (whether Lousioix refers to the first brood of meracydian dragons or all dragons is unclear but given the placement of "the" in the sentence I'm inclined to believe it's the latter... then again god knows how this was localized).

    The problem is, while Yoshida's quote calls Bahamut one of the seven (and thus, one of Midgardsormr's seven sons), he's nowhere to be found in the newly released artwork.

    There are ways to make this work, but I think your theory is directly contradicted by some of the information we have.

  18. #1338
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    Quote Originally Posted by solracht View Post
    The connection people are trying to establish between Midgardsormr and Bahamut is based on the following:

    In Turn 12, Lousioix says:


    Now Midgardsormr told us that he fathered seven sons (also known as the seven heavenly dragons, pictured in the artwork that Rocl posted:


    Lastly, in an interview, Yoshida said:


    -----

    So we know Bahamut was alive at some point and that he was part of the first brood of dragons (whether Lousioix refers to the first brood of meracydian dragons or all dragons is unclear but given the placement of "the" in the sentence I'm inclined to believe it's the latter... then again god knows how this was localized).

    The problem is, while Yoshida's quote calls Bahamut one of the seven (and thus, one of Midgardsormr's seven sons), he's nowhere to be found in the newly released artwork.

    There are ways to make this work, but I think your theory is directly contradicted by some of the information we have.
    This assumes Bahamut's Dragon Form and Primal form are similar in form.

  19. #1339
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    I felt like the dragon labeled 4 could be Bahamut? The main thing that doesn't look like him on that one are the jowl-horns, but all of our pictures of him are post-allagan-fuckery with his fancy allagan doodads coming out of his face instead, almost like they busted off his horns and jammed some of their own shit in there instead.

    Note: I haven't done T13, so I'm not closely acquainted with his appearance, if it's different in there.

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    dumb speculation post time

    Spoiler: show

    "Bahamut's egg" is exactly that. The egg where Bahamut is being reborn, not as a primal but in the same manner as Midgardsormr. Nidhogg roared to put an end to the war because the 7 dragons are finally together again (as Bahamut's essence is no longer trapped by the meracydian summoning ritual). There's no Bahamut in the artwork because he'll be reborn as Neo-Bahamut (MUH FF FEELS) and thus will look differently.