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  1. #121

    No, it's not, it's also not the point I'm trying to get across.

    Should a person have the right to use lethal force against an intruder in their home.

    Does a burglar deserve to be shot to death for the crime of burglary.

    No question marks because I'm not actually asking for any input, but if you can answer those 2 questions you should be able to wrap your head around it. Just because the issue isn't as simple and fair as we'd like to see it doesn't make it go away.

  2. #122
    BEAHCAT
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    Re: 2013 American Shootings thread

    Was there any info from the police department about their response? Did they dispatch immediately, or did the call get a lower priority than a breaking and entering in progress?

    Why I ask, is speaking on my departments dispatch procedure. A 3rd party call (husband off site) says there is a man pounding on the door, and wife at home is scared. This would go in as a priority 2 call (either investigate person, or disturbance)

    Or did the husband call and say someone was breaking in which would be a immediate dispatch of multiple units.

    Too many things we dont know, if police were not already on the way would the situation turn out worse for the family if the wife was not armed? Did the suspect hear someone in the closest, and thats why he lookes there? Was it just bad luck that he looked there? We will never know

  3. #123
    The Shitlord
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    "Excuse me sir, are you intruding in my house to burgle my things or to kill me? I need to know, you see, so I can decide which level of force to use while stopping you."

  4. #124
    Electric Six groupie
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    "Excuse me sir, how many bullets do you like with your tea? Six? Why aren't you leaving (re: dead)?"

  5. #125
    blax n gunz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    No, it's not, it's also not the point I'm trying to get across.
    You're applying hindsight to a case where it's completely pointless. It's probably best if you just let it go because you're wrong (and increasingly stupid) for pointing out what could have happened (but didn't) over and over again.

  6. #126
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    Perhaps there should be educational leaflets given to homeowners/denizens to prevent close-quarter scuffles. Or stronger locks and shatterproof glass.

    Or invest in a big ferocious dog doorbell chime.

  7. #127

    or maybe you shouldn't break into somebody's house

  8. #128
    >The Implying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    Should a person have the right to use lethal force against an intruder in their home.
    Absolutely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    Does a burglar deserve to be shot to death for the crime of burglary.
    Generally, assuming no other violent crime was committed and after the fact? No. But the circumstances change the second he, knowingly or not, approached the woman and her family. She had no way to anticipate his actions, so she struck first. Her self-defense is assured because he broke onto her property.

    This really isn't hard, and it really is simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    No question marks because I'm not actually asking for any input
    How convenient for your argument.
    "Hay guyz, here's my point, but don't respond to it, k?"

  9. #129

    Quote Originally Posted by Correction View Post
    You're applying hindsight to a case where it's completely pointless. It's probably best if you just let it go because you're wrong (and increasingly stupid) for pointing out what could have happened (but didn't) over and over again.
    You still think I'm talking about this story, and this story only.

    I can only assume people are just being willfully obtuse, or they feel like I'm trying to say something I'm not. It's such a simple concept I refuse to believe people are incapable of grasping it, I know some of you are capable of abstract thought.

    edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeryhn View Post
    Absolutely.

    Generally, assuming no other violent crime was committed and after the fact? No. But the circumstances change the second he, knowingly or not, approached the woman and her family. She had no way to anticipate his actions, so she struck first. Her self-defense is assured because he broke onto her property.

    This really isn't hard, and it really is simple.

    How convenient for your argument.
    "Hay guyz, here's my point, but don't respond to it, k?"
    Holy fucking shit thank you.

    The reason why I said I didn't expect an answer is because the answers to the questions are a given, the point was for people to recognize the issue that arises from the answers and appreciate that there isn't always a simple solution. To claim that there is one is to not appreciate the weight of the problem, and leads to people saying that a burglar with no intentions of committing violence deserved to be shot to death. That's an oversimplification of a very complicated problem and people too often pass judgement like that without thinking, it's not a good thing.

    I don't want or expect people to blame the victim or cry over the burglar, I just want people to recognize that shit isn't always so black and white.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeryhn View Post
    This really isn't hard, and it really is simple.

  10. #130
    Chram
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    This just in, Ambushes aren't fair.
    Didn't read rest of thread yet, but ...

    goddamn campers.

  11. #131
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    Do burglars deserve to die for breaking into a house? Nope.

    Am I going to lose a wink of sleep over any burglar who happens to die while committing their crime? Nope.

    Anyway, as it's been said by everyone in this thread minus one person...any time someone breaks into your home you cannot be sure what their intentions are. I'd never blame anyone for shooting first and asking questions later in a burglary situation.

  12. #132
    blax n gunz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    I just want people to recognize that shit isn't always so black and white.
    LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    What portion of burglars (armed or not, alone or not) do you think are going to stick around to risk confronting an armed occupant and murdering them when the police are already on their way?
    You're safefacing so hard right now because you got caught saying something fucking retarded and are handwaving it 'WELL IN GENERAL GUISE JEEZ' because you just can't drop it.

  13. #133

    That's not even the same topic, that was an argument about how a situation like this could have been resolved safely without the need for her to shoot the guy.

    It's...tangentially related yea, the concept that trying to avoid violence is always preferable but I don't see what it has to do with what I just said.

    If you can avoid the need for violence you can avoid the issue but even I've said repeatedly that it's not always possible.

  14. #134
    Shimmy shimmy ya shimmy yam shimmy ya
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    I hope your house is never invaded Niiro. I really do. God help your family if it ever is. Hopefully, your offer cupcakes tactic works.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    No, it's not, it's also not the point I'm trying to get across.

    Should a person have the right to use lethal force against an intruder in their home.

    Does a burglar deserve to be shot to death for the crime of burglary.

    No question marks because I'm not actually asking for any input, but if you can answer those 2 questions you should be able to wrap your head around it. Just because the issue isn't as simple and fair as we'd like to see it doesn't make it go away.
    Yes to both non-question questions. I've been the victim of an armed home invasion while at home with both my 8 month old son and my year and a half old niece. If I had a gun at the time, you know I would shoot to kill.

  16. #136

    even plow changed his story from saying he'd let a guy kill him before fighting back

    that's how you know you're wrong.

  17. #137
    >The Implying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    Holy fucking shit thank you.
    Did you... Did you even read what I said to you?

    Here, let me bold it for you:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeryhn View Post
    Generally, assuming no other violent crime was committed and after the fact?
    Also:

    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    To claim that there is one is to not appreciate the weight of the problem, and leads to people saying that a burglar with no intentions of committing violence deserved to be shot to death.
    Except... If you're stupid enough to break into someone's house when they are at home, when they are armed and when they are willing to kill the shit out of you, you kinda do deserve to be shot to death. Or get cut down with a samurai sword. Or however that person wants you, the motherfucker that just broke into their house, to die.

  18. #138
    Shimmy shimmy ya shimmy yam shimmy ya
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    What if the woman beat the shit out of the dude with a bat, no guns? Would your heart bleed as much Niiro?

  19. #139
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    Or stepped on a nail and got tetanus.

    Actually, shit, that reminds me. Wasn't there a case a while back where a burglar did something along those lines, and then successfully sued his intended victim?

  20. #140
    Shimmy shimmy ya shimmy yam shimmy ya
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    I think it's about time we raise awareness of the dangers of home intrusion defense. Back in the day, one use to be able to just break in and steal all day with the victim being well aware when not to be home.

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