Military judge contradicts Obama admin on Chelsea Manning dick size

[Kuya]

A military judge (of all people) ruled that Bradley Manning was in fact subject to harsh treatment which included being put in isolation for long hours and being forced to strip off his clothes. The UN had already expressed that it considered Manning treatment to be inhumane and tantamount to torture. Previously the Obama administration insisted that Manning's treatment was "appropriate". Manning is being accused of leaking government documents to Wikileaks which revealed, among other things, civilians being killed by a US helicopter.

The US soldier accused of being behind the massive WikiLeaks publication of state secrets has been awarded a 112-day reduction in any eventual sentence on the grounds that he was subjected to excessively harsh treatment in military detention.

Colonel Denise Lind, the judge presiding over Bradley Manning's court martial, granted him the dispensation as a form of recompense for the unduly long period in which he was held on suicide watch and prevention of injury status while at the brig at Quantico marine base in Virginia where he was detained from 29 July 2010 to 20 April 2011.

During that time he was held under constant surveillance, had his possessions removed from his cell and at times even his clothes, often in contravention to the professional medical opinion of psychiatrists.

However, the ruling falls far short of the hopes of Manning's defence team. At best, the soldier's lawyers had pressed for a dismissal of all 22 counts that he is currently facing relating to the transfer of hundreds of thousands of US diplomatic cables and war logs to the whistleblower website WikiLeaks.

However the same judge pushed back his trial, thereby essentially negating the possible reduction in time:

Yesterday, as noted, the military judge reduced Manning's sentence (if he's found guilty) by four months. But today, the same judge yet again pushed back the start of his trial by a total of three months, which consigns him to another three months in prison without being convicted.

By all means, take your time: it's only been 2 years and 8 months since he was arrested, all of which he has spent in a cage despite not having been convicted of anything. No reason to rush yourself in starting the trial.

Obama had previously said on Manning:

"With respect to Private Manning, I have actually asked the Pentagon whether or not the procedures that have been taken in terms of his confinement are appropriate and are meeting our basic standards. They assure me that they are." - Barack Obama, White House Press Conference, March 10, 2011.

In my opinion, Manning has been treated this way to make an example of him to future whistleblowers. Which is pretty sad when you think about it: whistleblowers revealing government misdeeds are being treated like animals, while everyone involved in the Bush administration torture regime escapes unharmed. It's one thing that the Obama administration refuses to pursue legal cases against the people involved in torture and wiretapping, but it's adding insult to injury that the administration is also punishing people for revealing wrong doing in government. It's perverse.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...d-progressives

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...n-treatment-un

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...sible-sentence

[kuronosan]

lolbama.

[Buffy]

No such thing as a whistle-blower in the military. You either obey orders, keep secrets, or people die.

He leaked possibly the MOST diplomatic and classified correspondence EVER. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/06/leak/

Sucks his trial got pushed back, but why should we care? He did this to himself. He leaked, then he bragged about leaking. He's foolish and can't be trusted.

[Kuya]

I disagree completely. If immoral or illegal acts are being committed, even in the military, it's up to people with conscious to expose those things. It's the responsaility of a reasonable government that has respect for accountability to create proper and useful channels so that whistleblowers can provide information on wrongdoing without having to rely on channels such as Wikileaks. If it's true that Manning released this information to Wikileaks, then the fault lies on the government for not being accountable enough and responsible enough.

It's a real shame that you care so little about accountability, buffy. It's also a shame that you have such a reflexive and base instinct to defend government wrongdoing in the name of secrecy and national security.

[kuronosan]

This is a matter of ethics, not a matter of morals.

In the military you're not allowed to have ethics. You follow orders. Nobody ever said the orders were the right ones to follow. I salute Manning for what he did but let's not pretend he's being unfairly punished. He's a soldier and he faces punishment he agreed to face.

It doesn't mean I agree with it.

[Kuya]

Well i suppose we can call this civil disobedience, and he has to accept the consequences of his actions even if he feels he's doing the right thing. I however think he is in fact being unfairly punished because he hasn't been convicted of anything yet he's being treated like he's already guilty. The UN agrees with this and so does the military judge presiding the case. Just because he's a soldier, does not give the military carte blanche to do whatever it wants with him; it too has to follow the law. I also insist on questioning Obama's priorities when it zealously pursues whisteblowers but does nothing about those behind torture and wiretapping.

I do however appreciate that you have enough moral center to recognize that what he did was the right thing to do, eve if it does break military codes of conduct, kuronosan, unlike other people.

[Rhyis.]

You either obey orders, keep secrets, or people die.

[Xno Kappa]

You either obey orders, keep secrets, or people die.

Some of you watch way too many fucking movies lol.

[Pirian]

This is a matter of ethics, not a matter of morals.

In the military you're not allowed to have ethics. You follow orders. Nobody ever said the orders were the right ones to follow. I salute Manning for what he did but let's not pretend he's being unfairly punished. He's a soldier and he faces punishment he agreed to face.

It doesn't mean I agree with it.

This isn't true. Many Nazi soldiers tried to use the defense of "just doing what they were told" the judges declared that not to be a valid excuse. It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't", but that is one of the major reason I will never be part of the military.

[kuronosan]

This isn't true. Many Nazi soldiers tried to use the defense of "just doing what they were told" the judges declared that not to be a valid excuse. It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't", but that is one of the major reason I will never be part of the military.

Uh, then it is true. What do you do in these situations? Follow orders or do what's right and get put in jail indefinitely for treason or insubordination?

Be realistic. I already said I don't agree with it, which is why you'll never see me in the military.

[Clash Perez]

US military law requires the following of lawful orders, not all orders. I don't know of any specific definition of a lawful order, but that would also seem to allow wiggle-room in the event of a courts-martial, if it came to that.

[Churchill]

I think some people separate the fact that he released classified information from AH-64 pilots being sociopaths (aka soldiers). Not all acts of killing are justified simply because it was the military, that is certain. From a man I knew at Ft. Lewis who was killing Afghan civilians for sport or SF guys in lone valleys dropping bombs at random or trumping up firefights there are unacceptable acts that do occur.

On the other hand, a lot of us enjoyed killing people. A lot of emphasis is put on PTSD and the media would have you believe that "You never forget your first kill" and "I am haunted by their faces". I know enough (thousands) of people where this isn't the case and were our conversations to be heard as those pilots were, it would spark outcry just as well. The difference in the two scenarios (or ours vs. any) is that there are people in charge and there is discipline - I can be disciplined for wearing socks too low and it is actually enforced, I will damn sure be disciplined for making a stupid decision.

The fact remains, I love the excitement of combat and I loved watching or participating in the fruits of my labor, death. I make this argument because it is inconceivable to watch a video like that and understand it but it is not so for me. Those are normal men with families and morals and all sorts of other labels to be placed on them.


---

I always found that there were acceptable venues to pursue reporting unlawful orders. I never felt I could not report them, though if I was a dumb 18 year old I might see it that way. It is true that you sign a lot of your objectivity away but it is also your duty (as it is to follow orders) to report or abscond from ones that would violate the Geneva Convention, your ROE, or basic humanity. On the other hand, technically I would not be allowed to take PVT Manning outside and smoke the fuck out of him for 2 hours just because I felt like he was a shit Private and needed some toughness/anger.

Technically.

[Xno Kappa]

The fact everyone keeps calling him a "whistleblower" is just blatantly misleading. He released classified information to a foreign entity, plain and simple. Stop with the bleeding hearts.

[Xno Kappa]

And stop with this "soldiers are robots and always follow orders" nonsense. There are just as many shitbag soldiers who are lazy as fuck and don't do shit no matter how many times you tell them as there are in your local taco bell asking you hard or soft.

[Ksandra]

my local taco bell never asks me for hard or soft

[Churchill]

Having your local taco bell know your preference: priceless

[Plow]

He's getting fucked on his right to a prompt trial.

The reason you're seeing the big contradiction, though, is that while the harshness of the lockdown for suicide/cutter watch was considered unfair, especially for the length of time, the current continued jailing passes habeas corpus as they clearly have sufficient evidence to detain him.

[Nephlite]

I think some people separate the fact that he released classified information from AH-64 pilots being sociopaths (aka soldiers). Not all acts of killing are justified simply because it was the military, that is certain. From a man I knew at Ft. Lewis who was killing Afghan civilians for sport or SF guys in lone valleys dropping bombs at random or trumping up firefights there are unacceptable acts that do occur.

On the other hand, a lot of us enjoyed killing people. A lot of emphasis is put on PTSD and the media would have you believe that "You never forget your first kill" and "I am haunted by their faces". I know enough (thousands) of people where this isn't the case and were our conversations to be heard as those pilots were, it would spark outcry just as well. The difference in the two scenarios (or ours vs. any) is that there are people in charge and there is discipline - I can be disciplined for wearing socks too low and it is actually enforced, I will damn sure be disciplined for making a stupid decision.

The fact remains, I love the excitement of combat and I loved watching or participating in the fruits of my labor, death. I make this argument because it is inconceivable to watch a video like that and understand it but it is not so for me. Those are normal men with families and morals and all sorts of other labels to be placed on them.


---

I always found that there were acceptable venues to pursue reporting unlawful orders. I never felt I could not report them, though if I was a dumb 18 year old I might see it that way. It is true that you sign a lot of your objectivity away but it is also your duty (as it is to follow orders) to report or abscond from ones that would violate the Geneva Convention, your ROE, or basic humanity. On the other hand, technically I would not be allowed to take PVT Manning outside and smoke the fuck out of him for 2 hours just because I felt like he was a shit Private and needed some toughness/anger.

Technically.

Agreed. Thankfully when I was in, I was never given an order that I thought was unreasonable or unsafe. Through combat and trust, you learned not to question the orders of a superior because sometimes, you just can't ask that person to explain why they think this is the best thing to do because (simply) you could get killed if you didn't do it that exact way at that exact time. I was lucky that most of my CO's were competent leaders who were tested and true and had our respect from the beginning (especially when they would run down the middle of a funnel with open exposed platforms on their 3 and 9 just to draw fire while you ran up in the building to neutralize the emplacements). Takes a huge set of gonads to do that, takes an even bigger set to not do what they said.

[Correction]

No such thing as a whistle-blower in the military. You either obey orders, keep secrets, or people die.

You forgot quot marks around "people die." As if the military cared about people dying.

[noblemountain]

1st rule of fight club.