How do you make the pet RA with zero RA skill? Doesn't the SS piece make him gain 3 skill? Never PUP, never PUP.
How do you make the pet RA with zero RA skill? Doesn't the SS piece make him gain 3 skill? Never PUP, never PUP.
Naw, apparently not. You can just check your Automaton's equipment screen and see its current skill.
I see what happened. If you let the game update the PUP level, you end up with 3/3. You need to use the Rabao trick before the warp trick to make this work. Where is the stat+24 from?
You can do it with Maneuvers and Puppetry Dastanas/+1.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Maneuver
When I did it, I used a test server glitch that caused your skills to not be updated properly, and all show at level 0. Your puppet will shoot regardless of skill, and all the head does is increase the rank of the skill, not give a straight +skill bonus.
You didn't know about that? I thought I talked to you about how I was abusing that while I was tasting way back then?
Anyway, I still have all my data from back then, though it's a bit sloppy and unkempt, because it was mostly just scribbling notes down in notepad as I did it, but if you want byrth, I can send it your way. I'm way to out of date to be able to sort out what's what atm, given how long it's been since I played regularly, and I don't have the money to play right now, so I can't do much aside from help run numbers, but I'd be happy to help, since FFXI math entertains me endlessly
edit: pulled up my old data and started poking around in it. Skill increases damage 3 at a time, rather than a linear 1 damage every 3 levels, so it works out to be 9 damage every 3 levels, or at least that's how it worked when I was testing it, the only quirk was that it didn't start at 0/1, it was offset so that your damage wouldn't hit 1 until your skill was level 6. The actual formula I had worked out was D=(((Skill-5)/9)*3) and that at 99, sharpshot needed 102 str to cap dSTR vs ronf bunnies with Choke cast on them to ensure a floored VIT of 1, meaning that dSTR capped at 101. The numbers also showed that sharpshot's dSTR capped at 84 at level 75, and I could swear I did some testing at a level lower than 75, but I can't find it anywhere, so I can't really compare that to your level 59 testing, but I can compare the level 99 stuff, lemme play with it.
Oh, and for the record, when you're working with the DEX mod, don't forget the Cirque guanti +1/2. Once you can account for either the dex or the strength, they help a fair amount.
Edit: mmmmm, alrighty, if we use one of your level 99 results, let's just go with the naked one for the moment, so 417 skill (135 damage by my numbers) 92 str 96 dex 255 damage (189 from fSTR column; 148 from DEX column)... Knocking out the damage from skill leaves us with 120 damage between fSTR and the DEX mod. We know the dex mod is around 50% with alpha (I'm assuming you're using the 0.85 alpha value), which would give a D bonus of 40 from dex, so 80 left for fSTR, which is a little over your estimated caps, but only by 7 damage. Hmmm, if we try one where we know fSTR is capped but no change to dex, so 262 damage, we have 87 to from fSTR. Now, given the nature of sharpshot's ranged attacks, since they're functionally damaging JAs, rather than mini WS, I'm honestly wonderingif there's no alpha value and it's just straight dex/2. If we use that, the first value would shift to 72, and the second to 79. 24+49 = 73, but if we tweaked it all just a bit, increasing the fSTR caps by 1 each for a total of 75, and adjusting the dex mod to a floored 55%, it's nearly dead on for capped fSTR's value for both the capped fSTR with no increase to dex, and with a dex of 104, and a couple others, but it doesn't scale cleanly for all of them, so there probably is an alpha value involved that's allowing them to stay at a value longer than would be possible with a strait 55% mod.
However, if there is an alpha value involved, it doesn't seem like it can be .85, because the damage range isn't right. the lowest capped fSTR damage (96 dex -> +52 damage) would need a ~63% dex mod, while the highest (130~133 -> +67 damage) would need a ~58% dex mod.... hmmm. The ~5% difference is there with the 73 fSTR cap, too. Honestly, I don't think it's as simple as a floor(floor(Dex*50~60%)*alpha), because I can't find a value for that, be it the %modor the alpha, that actually makes the whole range work. Looking at how the range adjusts itself, the pattern seems to be something like an alternating 4, 3, skip number, 3, 4; by which I mean, as an arbitrary number example,
I'm just a bit too rusty to quickly identify what that would result fromCode:DEX - Damage Increase 1 +1 2 +1 3 +1 4 +1 5 +2 6 +2 7 +2 8 +4 9 +4 10 +4 11 +5 12 +5 13 +5 14 +5
Are you sure the dSTR cap at 99 was 101 instead of 100? That seems similar to BLU fSTR cap seen here.
75/5 = 15
15+7 = 22fSTR Cap
fSTR2 Cap = fSTR*2
fSTR2 Cap = 22*2 = 44
dSTR=(fSTR2*2)-4
dSTR=88-4 = 84
99/5 = 19.8
19+7 = 26
26*2 = 52
52*2 = 104
104-4 = 100
Edit: They were made around the same pack and have no weapon rank.
mmm, I remember when we were testing it, byrth brought up that point, and as far as I can recall, we worked it out that it had to be 101, but I can't remember the exact evidence for it, nor can I find it. Keep in mind that it's been over a year since then, so I could also be remembering incorrectly. I can't find anywhere where I managed to nail 101 str, because getting +9 str at 99 against bunnies isn't possible, and I can't find any numbers of trying it at 98, where sharpshot's base str is 91, where it is possible with the cirque guanti +1 (I did others at 98, but that particular one I didn't)
Given that blu and pup were released concurrently, though, I wouldn't be surprised if their non-standard damage formulas are the same, or very similar, especially given what you've got there.
The equation that you have in your threads is FLOOR(Skill*.11)*3 I'm not sure that either formula is correct, given my level 59 results. The level 99 results regress to like 12~14 base damage for both incredibly low skill and 400+ skill, but the level 59 results leave a remainder of 56 damage and my level 14 results leave a remainder of about 20 damage. I would expect the remainder to either be constant (ideal) or to scale with PUP level.
DEX and STR also interact in some way that we don't have a hold on yet. I will have to look at this more later. Do you have the raw testing data anywhere?
Perhaps the equation is different, but the fSTR cap and expected dSTR at least matches quite well. I had difficulty achieving 101STR exactly, so I used excel to find another LV/STR value achievable solely through maneuvers.
LV90 grants the pet 83 STR and you gain 7STR/maneuver. So, 2 maneuvers and you should cap fSTR.
fSTR Cap = 90/5 = 18
fSTR Cap = 18+7 = 25
fSTR2 Cap = fSTR*2 = 25*2 = 50
dSTR = (fSTR*2)-4
With a VIT1 Rabbit using Elemental Debuff and attempting to cap fSTR, you have . . .
STR-1 = (50*2)-4
STR = 97
Fire0: 696 DMG
Fire1: 711
Fire2: 729
Fire3: 729
So, fSTR seemed to cap where expected.
Fire0: D232
Fire1: D237
Fire2: D243
Fire3: D243
Adding 14 STR gave you 11 base damage, so it's not only fSTR2 that's working there. Both the effects seem to cap at dSTR=100, so that's how I came to fSTR + fSTR2. However, fSTR1+fSTR2 doesn't explain how DEX and STR could be interacting, which they seem to be.
I might drop back to just using fSTR2 and trying to work from there.
Not sure, since I did another check with 10 v 427 skill and differing STR values at the 427 skill (LV99). Note that these didn't have reduced VIT like with the other check.
10 Skill, 105 STR, 109 DEX: 405 DMG
427 Skill, 105 STR, 109 DEX: 810 DMG (Double DMG!)
427 Skill, 112 STR, 109 DEX: 813 DMG (Was capped from here if I remember correctly; chat doesn't record maneuvers, but I have pics of this dmg 2x and I was checking fSTR cap at that point)
If both fSTR and fSTR2 cap dSTR at 100, I should expect 2 base DMG (6 total) increase right?
Some additional data:
The fSTR2 cap listed is using the LV/5+7 equation.Code:LV Damage BD fSTR Cap DEX Remove fSTR 90 396 132 50 114 82 90 390 130 50 107 80 90 381 127 50 100 77 90 369 123 50 87 73 89 369 123 48 99 75 89 387 129 48 111 81 89 354 118 48 86 70
Some more fSTR2 checks.
LV99 BLU/11SCH
RA Skill: 36
STR Base: 16
STR/Fire Maneuver: 1
DEX: 17
Used SG and Roar to reduce VIT and DEF
Fire0: 129 DMG
Fire1: 135 DMG
Fire2: 135 DMG
Fire3: 138 DMG
Does seem to bring back the fSTR+fSTR2 idea, but no clue why later fSTR caps would onry increase base DMG by 1. Atm, capped pDIF is just assumed, but the damage was consistent and divides by three. No one else to help debuff them lol.
Edit: Additional check using skill
1. The DEX bonus seems independent of skill (100-107 is +3 for both; 107-114 is +2 for both)Code:fSTR1 fSTR2 Skill DEX Base DMG DMG 25 50 36 100 136 408 25 50 36 107 139 417 25 50 36 114 141 423 25 50 360 100 244 732 25 50 360 107 247 741 25 50 360 114 249 747
2. The Skill bonus seems consistent (If you look at similar DEX values; fSTR capped) as a bonus of 108 DMG
(2) is very clean for skill/3, so perhaps there's subtraction occurring to make skill avoid bonus between 2-4? May be a good idea to check when the bonus does begin to appear.
Just checked and the bonus initiates at 10 skill.
381 Before 10 skill
390 at 10 skill (+3 base damage)
This could mean Skill Bonus = (Floor(Skill-7)/3)
Or Skill Bonus = FLOOR(Skill*0.11)*3
Again, though, something must change about this formula at the middle levels because I get a really different offset after removing the known quantities other than Skill.
Cleaned this post up a bit.
I think the (Skill*0.11)*3 you proposed works. Skill is easier to manipulate, so I would prioritize that over inconsistencies with competing variables. In particular, the equation exactly matches the difference between the 10/427 check, the 36/360 check, and the LV63/64 tier check. The fSTR+fSTR2 looks good for the LV59 data. The issue, however, is that the fSTR jump before capped fSTR is 1 base DMG gain. This happens at fSTRSum=100, which cleanly works with dividing by 4 (fSTR) and 2 (fSTR2). The gain from DEX doesn't vary by skill. I checked, and your 7VIT assumption is correct.
fSTR Jumps
Spoiler: show
VIT check
Spoiler: show
Can skip this since this was terribad anyways
Spoiler: show
You may have realized this Byrth, but I'm almost certain your STR-DEX correlation is really fSTR-DEX correlation. If this were STR-DEX, we wouldn't really see fSTR capped since the DMG would continue to perpetuate DMG from the DEX. This would explain why we see the weird 2-3pt jumps.
Yeah, but it affects the cap of fSTR somehow. Look at the lower bolded patch in Table 1 here and compare it to the upper bolded patch. Somehow moving from 96 to 104 DEX make 100->106 STR a 2 base damage increase instead of a 1 base damage increase.
When you hit 106 STR, you concurrently hit the fSTR cap given the first bold series. If you're hitting a new fSTR tier and fSTR affects DEX bonus, you could just be seeing DEX bonus from that tier. For instance, not that this is the case, if the equation were Floor((fSTR/100)*(DEX)), increasing fSTR increases DEX's contribution to BD.
Well, what are you using for your fSTR1 and fSTR2 caps? At the moment I have 48 and 25, which reduces my DEX vs. Remainder and STR vs. Remainder relationships to ~0 slopes.
These look good:
48/25
49/24 <-- looks better, but fits a little worse
Here is some level 14 data:
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="512"><colgroup><col style="width:48pt" span="8" width="64"> </colgroup><tbody><tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt;width:48pt" height="20" width="64">Skill</td> <td style="width:48pt" width="64">STR</td> <td style="width:48pt" width="64">DEX</td> <td style="width:48pt" width="64">Damage</td> <td style="width:48pt" width="64">D</td> <td style="width:48pt" width="64">No fSTR</td> <td style="width:48pt" width="64">No DEX?</td> <td style="width:48pt" width="64">No skill?</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">45</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">135</td> <td align="right">45</td> <td align="right">33</td> <td align="right">25</td> <td align="right">21</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">45</td> <td align="right">18</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">129</td> <td align="right">43</td> <td align="right">33</td> <td align="right">25</td> <td align="right">21</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">45</td> <td align="right">20</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">135</td> <td align="right">45</td> <td align="right">33</td> <td align="right">25</td> <td align="right">21</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">45</td> <td align="right">21</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">138</td> <td align="right">46</td> <td align="right">33</td> <td align="right">25</td> <td align="right">21</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">45</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">20</td> <td align="right">135</td> <td align="right">45</td> <td align="right">33</td> <td align="right">24</td> <td align="right">20</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">45</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">21</td> <td align="right">135</td> <td align="right">45</td> <td align="right">33</td> <td align="right">24</td> <td align="right">20</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">45</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">22</td> <td align="right">135</td> <td align="right">45</td> <td align="right">33</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="right">19</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">45</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">21</td> <td align="right">138</td> <td align="right">46</td> <td align="right">34</td> <td align="right">25</td> <td align="right">21</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">45</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">20</td> <td align="right">138</td> <td align="right">46</td> <td align="right">34</td> <td align="right">25</td> <td align="right">21</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td style="height:15.0pt" align="right" height="20">45</td> <td align="right">20</td> <td align="right">20</td> <td align="right">138</td> <td align="right">46</td> <td align="right">34</td> <td align="right">25</td> <td align="right">21</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
I've been using (LV/5)+7, but your 106 cap seems to undermine that unless you have some debuff going (or VIT is variable lol).
I had 90 at 50 fSTR (I need to check LV90 STR + NQ Maneuver to the pieces, but should be 100 fSTRSum total). If DEX is increasing fSTR cap, that could be irrelevant though.
Here's some extras in case they help:
LV93 PUP
100 STR
Debuffed mob VIT to 1 VIT using sub BLM
375 RA Skill
DEX, Base DMG
104, 252 BD
111, 255 BD
112, 255 BD
118, 256 BD
119, 256 BD
120, 258 BD
125, 259 BD
126, 259 BD
127, 261 BD
128, 261 BD
You know, I don't think DEX would affect fSTR cap. If you look at your STR=100 results from the LV99 Automaton, you wouldn't expect increased damage from increased fSTR cap. At DEX=96, fSTR was uncapped, but at DEX=112, you witness increased damage. Interestingly, this increase was greater than the amount of DEX difference, so uh weird.
This may be a dumb suggestion, but Jump gets a straight multiplier to damage based on VIT. Is is possible DEX could be a straight multiplier to all damage (base and fSTR) on auto RAs?