Playstation 4 Talkback: Dollar Menu - Sep 15 $299 | Double-Double - Nov 10 $399

[Moridam]

i would ask those people something like: how much has activision made off, say, CoD over the last 5 years? how many daring new IP's have they been cranking out as a result, and while we're at it, how have those profits translated into dramatic improvements for the CoD series itself?

[izembo]

never has, never will. just more money for some ceo somewhere.

[Salodin]

Id consider cod the exception, not the rule.

[izembo]

video gaming has become too popular, too big of an industry and its becoming more and more mainstream accepted. which means it's going to become more and more like hollywood. big theatrics, big budgets, less room for smaller games that innovate. publishers are grading based on meta critic scores and it's very obvious how biased certain sites are towards people that advertise on their site. publishers want the next call of duty, but there won't be another game like that.

[Kuishen]

Discussing the used-game sales thing with a friend and he brings out a good point.

"Used game sales aren't an issue, period. They subsidize new game purchases and increase revenue for the entire industry. People buy as much games as they do because they know they have resale value."

I generally don't buy games with the intent to sell them after I'm done with them, but I know people that do.

[Katlan]

video gaming has become too popular, too big of an industry and its becoming more and more mainstream accepted. which means it's going to become more and more like hollywood. big theatrics, big budgets, less room for smaller games that innovate. publishers are grading based on meta critic scores and it's very obvious how biased certain sites are towards people that advertise on their site. publishers want the next call of duty, but there won't be another game like that.

plenty of smaller dev's are doing great on digital console releases (Journey, Unfinished Swan, Walking Dead, ect...). Dunno what you talking about

[Salodin]

Discussing the used-game sales thing with a friend and he brings out a good point.

"Used game sales aren't an issue, period. They subsidize new game purchases and increase revenue for the entire industry. People buy as much games as they do because they know they have resale value."

I generally don't buy games with the intent to sell them after I'm done with them, but I know people that do.

On the other side, one could say games are as expensive as they are because publishers want to make the money back that they're losing on used game sales. Whos to say if prices would have gone up 10 bucks this generation if publishers were making the money they lose on used game sales. Invisible hand of the market, etc.

[Moridam]

they're not losing shit on used game sales lol. that only works if you buy into the phony "anyone that bought it used would've bought it new if only a used copy weren't available" line, and i shouldn't have to point out how obviously dumb and wrong that is.

even ignoring online passes, publishers are still MAKING money on used game sales, because the secondhand owner is probably going to grab DLC expansions. used game sales are undoubtedly a big reason behind publishers' big push for expanding DLC and microtransactions over this generation, so they can monetize the secondhand market.

[Kuishen]

On the other side, one could say games are as expensive as they are because publishers want to make the money back that they're losing on used game sales. Whos to say if prices would have gone up 10 bucks this generation if publishers were making the money they lose on used game sales. Invisible hand of the market, etc.

If prices had gone up $10 this generation then overall sales would have dropped because prices are too expensive as it is. The point he's making is that publishers are making more money then they are losing because of the fact that games have resale value, if you take that resale value away then your sales are going to drop and you would be losing more money anyways.

People also don't want to buy new games right now because there aren't that many being released that actually warrant paying $60 for. If publishers want to make more money they need to stop making half-assed games or lower the price of said games. If games were $40 instead of $60 it would solve a lot of the problems they claim to have because of used-game sales.

[Correction]

On the other side, one could say games are as expensive as they are because publishers want to make the money back that they're losing on used game sales. Whos to say if prices would have gone up 10 bucks this generation if publishers were making the money they lose on used game sales. Invisible hand of the market, etc.

AAA publishers want their games to remain as expensive as possible because they are now spending $35-$100 million in production costs and another $100 million in marketing costs per game, and costs continue to rise, not as a hedge against people buying used instead of new retail.

[Tyrath]

I like how people buy into the bullshit that used games causes losses for companies just because companies cry because they want more money. Same shit happens with everything as someone previously stated. People buy used books, dvds, and even cars. The developer doesn't get a cut of that, and they don't need to. If they want money from it, they should be tapping into Gamestop, not doing shit that hurts the consumers instead.

[Jefe]

Why do people keep comparing the video game industry to cars? Only because one can purchase something used it doesn't mean they have the same business models.

i would ask those people something like: how much has activision made off, say, CoD over the last 5 years? how many daring new IP's have they been cranking out as a result, and while we're at it, how have those profits translated into dramatic improvements for the CoD series itself?

Your questions would be irrelevant because cod making a ton of cash doesn't mean other studios are. They would probably bring up Suda51.

video gaming has become too popular, too big of an industry and its becoming more and more mainstream accepted. which means it's going to become more and more like hollywood. big theatrics, big budgets, less room for smaller games that innovate. publishers are grading based on meta critic scores and it's very obvious how biased certain sites are towards people that advertise on their site. publishers want the next call of duty, but there won't be another game like that.

I can count w/ one hand the studios who can afford big budget games.

[Tyrath]

Why do people keep comparing the video game industry to cars? Only because one can purchase something used it doesn't mean they have the same business models.

Because who made video games special? You should have full license over shit you buy and what you want to do with it. If you want to sell it to someone else, you should be able to. If you want to let a friend borrow it you should be able to.

The only reason video game companies cry about used game sales is their greed for wanting more money. Like I said, if they want that money they should go after trying to get money from used game sales from people like gamestop. They should not be blocking it altogether.

[Moridam]

if suda51 is suffering, it's because ten people are buying their games, and their lack of success has nothing to do with the existence of the used game market.

obviously nobody else is raking in CoD-levels of cash. the point is, even when publishers ARE making massive profits, it doesn't translate into better shit for videogame players, as was being suggested on the last page. there is absolutely no consumer benefit to cutting publishers in on secondhand sales or outright banning them, and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

the whole 'waaah, used game sales are harmful to the industry' is nothing but corporate propaganda. the execs are just mad they're not making as much money as they'd like to, and they don't feel like they have enough control over the market.

[Cleverness]

I remember back in the PS1 era game price being more varied. New games could come out anywhere from 30 to 60(if it was a multi disc game, usually RPGs). I would pay 50ish for something like FF7 but then turn around and get Wild Arms 1/BoF3-4/Suikoden1-2/Megaman X4-6/etc for 30-40. And in the case of the RPGs listed there wasn't a MAJOR difference in time sunk into the game if you did everything, mostly was due to number of discs. Which as a kid was nice because my mom wasn't always gonna shell out 50-60 for a new game when I wanted it, but in 'settling' for the cheaper ones I found alot of great classics like the ones I listed that I get more of a nostalgia boner over compared to the more popular stuff. This held true even into the PS2 era, albeit the range was abit smaller.

Now everything is either 60 bucks or if it's cheaper it's probably an indie game or Xbox Arcade/PSN store release. And from someone who can count the number of current gen console games he has bought on both hands can tell you, if you're gonna charge me 60 bucks for a game it, either A) last 30+ hours while I enjoy it or B) expect me to not buy it until the price drops substantially. And god help you if there is a PC release and it's on Steam, I won't even bother now(before someone starts on the PC elitist argument, the price of a PC capable of playing majority of these games isn't even that high anymore. And considering there are new consoles due soon it's not even a bad idea to consider investing in a PC as opposed to consoles for the next gen for those without). My current gen library pales in comparison to the last ones because of this, and while I don't make a habit of selling games I enjoy having the option to do so if I want to, I did it with all my PS1 games after PS1 emulation became easy to do and I made iso backups of all of them.

Restricting the consumer is never a good idea, especially when alot of gaming has shifted away from consoles as it is.

[Tyrath]

O.o Really?

My new ps1 games were always a static price of $40 and PS2 were always $50, just like PS3 ones are always $60.

Although admittedly I didn't have a ps1 for few years after launch.

[Tekki]

Anyone else see the irony of one time use codes vs sales?
THQ started to use them, where are they now?
Ea sports continue to trend downward each year

Cod doesnt use it, game prints money.
Nba 2kXX doesnt use it, still prints money.

I think the latter two examples show that if you want to nab new sales, make your games compelling enough not only to buy new, within the first week, but most importantly, to keep as well.

As for used sales hurting new sales, its been well documented that the complete opposite has rang true. In fact, sales of new games are considerably higher now then they were 10 years ago. Just Google it, and youll find more information on how not only are they unaffected, but in some studies they show it helps the new game market.

Gabe had a great talk yesterday that I invite everyone to sit down and watch. If you ever get an opportunity to listen to the man speak, he has great perspectives on what publishers and game designers need to do with their product. One big take away is always the idea of adapting instead of fighting market problems.

[Vendog]

What Publishers should do is have a Buy-back program and Resell the used games lower than gamestop. Boom problem solved.

[Cleverness]

O.o Really?

My new ps1 games were always a static price of $40 and PS2 were always $50, just like PS3 ones are always $60.

Although admittedly I didn't have a ps1 for few years after launch.

Most launched at 40 but I distinctly remember buying a few on release near the end of its cycle at 30, specifically Megaman X6. Although that might be because after X5 they weren't trying anymore so it was cheaper.

[Koul]

Do people really think that if used games become non-existant companies would push out better quality products because they have "more money" to spend on em? If you think so then you're a fucking idiot and you're buying into their bullshit. Unless there's evidence on the contrary then I'll continue to be pleasantly distrustful of publishers.

I don't buy used games because I like the shiny brand spanking newness of a game. But if they get rid of that option, I won't be buying any new console. I bought Dark Souls because I was up for the challenge and it looked fun. Put in about 7 hours and realized I'm way too shitty at the game to put forth any effort. Unless they release demos of every. single. game. that's gunna be released, it's a terrible idea.