Reinheart's NA to JP (and vice versa hopefully) Q&A. Also including a list of useful phrases.

[Grey Jorildyn]

NA pickups in this game have entirely consisted of:

you: (I'm interested.)
them: Have you won?
you: Not yet, but [insert how many times you've tried/come close/etc.].
them: (No, thanks.)

People are always looking for someone "better than them" to improve their chances. That's the same everywhere. Pugs are terrible anyway!

[Carraway]

Are the hardcore/endgame Japanese players interested in rolling together on a particular server? We're obviously going to pick an NA-based data center server, but if any of them are willing to give up the latency advantage, we'd love to have as vibrant a server community as possible.

[Stanislaw]

People are always looking for someone "better than them" to improve their chances. That's the same everywhere. Pugs are terrible anyway!

Maybe it was just my server, but the JPs had also shouted for 'practice' pick-up-groups for the not-so-experienced crowd, which was a great way to improve the quality of the average JP pickuper. And while I wouldn't say JP pickups had a 100% success rate in their runs, it was in the high 90's for me, while my success rate with NA pickups was less than 5. I even beat Nael (Hard) with my JP static group in which three members were pickups when we were running short on members and had to fill the blanks in.

I know NA players are super-great if they put their mind to it, as I've seen what the BG crowd could do through their vidoes (and the one time I was in my JP static when a kind member decided to help out with Nael (Normal) when we were first attempting it and struggling), but I wish I could've seen it in person more and not be constantly exposed to the non-quality NA crowd.

Are the hardcore/endgame Japanese players interested in rolling together on a particular server? We're obviously going to pick an NA-based data center server, but if any of them are willing to give up the latency advantage, we'd love to have as vibrant a server community as possible.

We're not 100% sure as to how exactly they're going to be rolling the servers out to begin with, so not at the moment. But I would think the majority of the JP playerbase will go to JP-based data center servers, mostly not because of latency, but simply staying away from the NA playerbase. For the record, it's not because of racism, but because a lot of us are interested in peace and quiet (aka no shout matches).

The issue of regional datacenters are a difficult one for me, as I have my JP friends and NA friends and they're both interested in going to their respective regional servers. Being forced to choose is not something I enjoy.

[Stromgarde]

I suppose that might be for the best. Maybe we can hope for some designated 'international servers' in each region for those who are interested in playing with folks from other regions.

[solracht]

I suppose that might be for the best. Maybe we can hope for some designated 'international servers' in each region for those who are interested in playing with folks from other regions.

Square-Enix should just allow cross-server communication/parties/guilds like in GW2 and other upcoming games. I feel like the entire "segregation" and "nobody to play with at weird times" arguments shouldn't even exist nowadays. It's 2013 and the technology clearly exists.

I can't help but feel like the Duty Finder is going to be straight from WoW circa 2008 and it's going to be depressing. They can do much more than that.

[Stromgarde]

Isn't that what the Content Finder is supposed to provide anyway though? I'm just talking about the social aspect.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Pretty sure Duty Finder will be cross-server. Too tired to look for a source.

[solracht]

Pretty sure Duty Finder will be cross-server.

It is.

Isn't that what the Content Finder is supposed to provide anyway though? I'm just talking about the social aspect.

I was too. Allowing your players to interact cross-server and having a cross-server content finder aren't the same thing.

For example, when the Warcraft content finder was added (it was in 2009 and not 2008, my bad there) WoW didn't support any other kind of cross server interaction outside of the content finder matching random players together. Skip to today: now you can send messages and form cross-server parties, and then use the content finder to enter dungeons with your friends from other servers.

EDIT: Gonna stop the derail here though (not that half the posts from this thread were on-topic).

[Intense]

But I would think the majority of the JP playerbase will go to JP-based data center servers, mostly not because of latency, but simply staying away from the NA playerbase. For the record, it's not because of racism, but because a lot of us are interested in peace and quiet (aka no shout matches).

This would be the only reason I'd join a more JP heavy server.

However, I wonder about server jumps. I live in NYC now, but in the next few years I want to move back home to Cali and I'd ideally like to play on a region where I currently live.


ON TOPIC: Maybe I'm off base but I thought that at this point, the NA's and JP's already understand each other enough to co-exist? I mean, we've been bunched together for only a little bit shy of a decade (the lack of actual questions so far kinda reinforces my point).

[Stanislaw]

ON TOPIC: Maybe I'm off base but I thought that at this point, the NA's and JP's already understand each other enough to co-exist? I mean, we've been bunched together for only a little bit shy of a decade (the lack of actual questions so far kinda reinforces my point).

The way I see it, the JPs understand perfectly well what (bad) NA behavior is and want to avoid association as much as possible because most don't want to deal with the crap. Most NAs on the other hand still don't quite get it and look at the JP reluctance in grouping together and cry "JPs are racist!" when really that's not the issue at all. Most of the people who use the 'racism' argument and say that 'not all NAs are bad' are missing the point. Understanding is not a one-way street. The people who say that most Japanese can understand some English are the worst.

Do JPs think all NAs are bad? No. Great folks and great players exist. They understand this perfectly. But there simply just wasn't enough evidence of them compared to all the 'typical bad NA behavior' crap they had to deal with when NAs joined in. Yes, those players were in the minority. But they sure stood out. Heck, look at the official FFXIV General Discussion forums. It doesn't represent the entire NA FFXIV playerbase, and they are (probably and hopefully) in the minority, but they sure are vocal, right?

Of course, that's not to say that JPs are complete saints and we don't have these kinds of behavior at all. We do have those players too, but in terms of quantity and volume the NA are much more plentiful. For example, let's say you have a 5% chance of being teamed up with a shitty NA player vs a 3% chance of being teamed up with a shitty JP player. Which will you take? The JPs took the latter. So rather than 'risking' parting up with NA players on (what is seen as) the chance of being grouped up with a quality NA player, the JPs opted to avoid the entire population as much as they can. In the end it was probability that was the deciding factor to this 'segregation'. Language was, of course, a bonus factor.

Contrary to popular belief, when NA FFXI first launched JPs did give NAs the benefit of doubt, hoping they could be good neighbors. Over the years the illusion has completely shattered, and I guess the decision for regional servers is its cumulative result.

[Grey Jorildyn]

This would be the only reason I'd join a more JP heavy server.

However, I wonder about server jumps. I live in NYC now, but in the next few years I want to move back home to Cali and I'd ideally like to play on a region where I currently live.


ON TOPIC: Maybe I'm off base but I thought that at this point, the NA's and JP's already understand each other enough to co-exist? I mean, we've been bunched together for only a little bit shy of a decade (the lack of actual questions so far kinda reinforces my point).

I wouldn't worry about time too much if you're talking about a move from NYC to Cali. EST vs. PST is never really an issue and many players in one or the other time zone usually accommodate themselves and join whatever server their friends play on. My LS is EST based but we have nearly half our players elsewhere in the states.

The reality is if you give JP players the option to play on a JST server, that's where they're gonna go. The NA community hangs onto this idea that they (NA community) want a blended culture server, but I highly doubt that is on the "wishlist" of many foreign players, especially ones in the EU. Those players are in short supply as it is that spreading them thinner isn't a good move for them. If it were up to me, SE would've labeled servers by timezone from the very beginning to guide players to places they were most likely to be able to play (ie. highest density in their timezone). Every other MMO does this for a reason. That reason is because it makes sense, something SE is only just starting to get a grasp on methinks (testament to this is new players posting on OFs asking "I am EST player. Which server are all those players going to?" NOBODY asks "Hey I'm EST players, what server are all those Germans rolling on?"). OF'ers tout "segregation" and shit as if it's some kind of effort to separate communities from one another when that's not the point at all. Sure the communities can co-exist, but it's not in their best interest if they're trying to make parties to be on a server that coincidentally has a high volume of PST to EST based players and they are in Japan. Since servers had no label up to this point, you never knew what you were gonna get by joining "Gungnir" or "Durandal". Shit like that makes it very difficult for new players to jump into the game. Server selection should not be a total crapshoot. The average player looking to jump into the game isn't gonna do extensive research to figure out what server the most amount of people in their timezone play, if that kind of information is even transparent enough or available in any way, shape, or form (hint: It isn't).

[Agito]

It all comes down to endgame, its mostly impossible to have a JP/EN endgame linkshell outside of the few exceptions as it was done in FFXI. Yeah though, if the servers were forced mixed between all regions of the world then you would basically have a faction based mmorpg where you can't even play with half of your own servers population outside of the random dungeon party and I don't know how anyone can ever want this situation. What I truly hope FFXIV does with the content finder is group EN and JP together from the different data centers so we can have the best of both worlds (playing with JP in dungeons/PvP/other but not having the downside of a faction like server).

[Grey Jorildyn]

I guarantee that duty finder will let you select EN JP FR GR language, and it will be on JP by default for JP all day every day, and NA will put in "All" if that is an option. Same deal will occur with "(Do you speak Japanese?)" > "(No.)" > "(See you again!")"

[Intense]

Contrary to popular belief, when NA FFXI first launched JPs did give NAs the benefit of doubt, hoping they could be good neighbors. Over the years the illusion has completely shattered, and I guess the decision for regional servers is its cumulative result.

I can definitely attest to this as, on Asura at least, there were NA/JP hybrid HNM LS's early on but they kind of went away when Remora opened up and they allowed server transfers (iirc of course, Ksandra may be able to correct me if she remembers?).

But Stan, I'm not sure if I'm following your point. In one post you are stating its bc of NA players being loud (via shouting matches), but in your reply to me you state its bc of player skill/bad habits. For the latter, bc there are as many shitty players in one camp as the other I feel like a reasonable person regardless of where they're from would be able to cancel that out.

Personally speaking, I can overlook how loud and obnoxious someone is so long as as we succeed in whatever it is were trying to beat (but I can concede that that may be uniquely NA of me).

[Stanislaw]

But Stan, I'm not sure if I'm following your point. In one post you are stating its bc of NA players being loud (via shouting matches), but in your reply to me you state its bc of player skill/bad habits.

The shouting matches thing is simply one of the biggest JP gripes and hence just one of the reasons, so it falls under the 'bad habits' portion that I described later.

For the latter, bc there are as many shitty players in one camp as the other I feel like a reasonable person regardless of where they're from would be able to cancel that out.

The numbers that I gave is just an example, and by no means an accurate representation. Was trying to simply make a point that JP assholes existed too. I really don't want to give out my personal views on the comparison since that just opens up a can of worms I don't really want to deal with, but, in the end, the JP thought process settled into something akin to: "If we're going to deal with assholes regardless, might as well deal with the ones that speak the same language and can thus communicate".

One thing I observed which I thought was interesting was that whereas the NAs blame the JPs for being assholes with the whole "JP onry" fiasco and make a big deal about it and whatever-other behavior, we don't really place the blame on NAs being assholes because we've come to accept that's how NAs assholes are and are indifferent about it and thus don't really give a damn. I thought the difference in attitudes were interesting.

Personally speaking, I can overlook how loud and obnoxious someone is so long as as we succeed in whatever it is were trying to beat (but I can concede that that may be uniquely NA of me).

Yeah, that's a mentality that's unique to NA. XD

After whatever that we wanted beaten was beaten, then sure, go ahead and be loud. But if the attitude was constant even during the buildup, that's frowned upon.

[Ksandra]

I can definitely attest to this as, on Asura at least, there were NA/JP hybrid HNM LS's early on but they kind of went away when Remora opened up and they allowed server transfers (iirc of course, Ksandra may be able to correct me if she remembers?).

Ya it did on asura at least. But when I moved to hades I joined an NA/JP dynamis shell (reinheart's, which is how I met him). That lasted a long time as both even when Rathan took over. But it came to the point that there was...6? JP and the rest NA (didn't help that Rathan doesn't speak japanese, but we were really well-organized so I think some stuck with us because they knew we got shit done.)

[Aeowin]

For 7 years I thought Stan was russian. til

[Purrrfect]

For 7 years I thought Stan was russian. til

Lol, I feel like I was under this impression for a long time as well.

[Kipling]

I suppose it's a good thing the Japanese aren't nearly as good at 14 as NA's are.

Lol my post doesn't imply anything about skill, it's just a fact that we're all loud and shit some of the time.

I played with a lot of JP friends (was in a JP LS at one point where I was like one of 5 NA members of a total of like 35~ people), so I just know this is true just from experience. I know JP's and KR aren't the same thing, but playing KTERA for awhile really reminded me of the different JP mindset. For example, KTERA had free pvp on every server, no matter what. I couldn't type their characters so I assumed I was going to get murdered. Yet, not a single person declared on me. One of my in-game KR friends told me it's because they think it's rude, no matter who you are. Now fast forward a year or so when NA TERA launches, and everyone is killing everyone and griefing lowbies is a sport.

Has nothing to do with skill, just how we act.

[Carraway]

Thanks for the responses, Stanislaw.

New question: is there a centralized location for Japanese theorycrafting, or is it basically just scattered across individual players' blogs and 2ch and random forums? Has there ever been any interest in a centralized location for higher-level discussion? Basically, even if I can't play alongside hardcore Japanese players on my server specifically, I do want to interact with them. For us (my LS/FC), competition is about clocking the kill, but then we're happy to share information and figure out best practices with others.