Reinheart's NA to JP (and vice versa hopefully) Q&A. Also including a list of useful phrases.

[Stanislaw]

New question: is there a centralized location for Japanese theorycrafting, or is it basically just scattered across individual players' blogs and 2ch and random forums? Has there ever been any interest in a centralized location for higher-level discussion? Basically, even if I can't play alongside hardcore Japanese players on my server specifically, I do want to interact with them. For us (my LS/FC), competition is about clocking the kill, but then we're happy to share information and figure out best practices with others.

The centralized JP boards for FFXIV discussions seems to have settled down to the 2ch's MMO discussion boards, but I highly, highly recommend you stay away from posting there as 2ch is full with the worst JPs that hide behind the wall of anonymity that will jump at the chance at slamming down foreigners the moment they see an English post (or a terribly worded JP one, they can tell). The best chance you will have with interacting with JPs on FFXIV discussion will probably be the official forums.

The problem, of course, is that equally intelligent discussions and theorycrafting also arises in 2ch if you're willing to sift through the vile pile. So, JP blogs like Metenyo, which sifts through 2ch to pick up the better discussions that go rampant in 2ch so most of the crap is avoided is really helpful.

For 7 years I thought Stan was russian. til

Lol, I feel like I was under this impression for a long time as well.

Yes, yes, I realize I don't have a very JP-like handle. XD

Because I play under this same handle in FFXIV as well, (complete with an also equally Eastern-European Last Name of Ziolkowski) whenever I join an JP pickup party my fellow JPs are frequently put under the illusion that I'm anything but JP. But then I start typing Japanese and all is fine, but sometimes it's amsuing to watch JP reactions when I purposely stay silent and see what they have to say thinking I don't understand what they're saying, lol

Oh, and by the way, myself (with a w) and Stanislav (with a v) are two different people, so in case you're confused, hope that clears it up. =P

[Carraway]

Right on, thanks. I speak some Japanese, but nowhere near fluency. Whenever I joined a Japanese PUG, particularly towards the end of 1.0, I always introduced myself in Japanese with the caveat that I'm an American, and I did get shut down occasionally, but I usually didn't have any issues. Learning the Japanese way to run AV was certainly awkward, but I managed to do everything but Legatus (Hard) with Japanese PUGs. We have a Japanese member in our linkshell and I do worry about the degree of isolation he'll encounter after the new servers are up. I know that cross-server queuing will alleviate issues of sitting around town doing fuck-all at strange hours, but without strong cross-server social support, i.e. friend list, mail, messaging, etc., it'll kinda suck for orphans on NA servers.

How widespread among the community is usage of Japanese 3rd-party tools like FFXIVLogRep? When I joined random Japanese groups, I rarely noticed competitive players, but that's a generality that spans across all PUGs.

[Burningthought]

The centralized JP boards for FFXIV discussions seems to have settled down to the 2ch's MMO discussion boards, but I highly, highly recommend you stay away from posting there as 2ch is full with the worst JPs that hide behind the wall of anonymity that will jump at the chance at slamming down foreigners the moment they see an English post (or a terribly worded JP one, they can tell). The best chance you will have with interacting with JPs on FFXIV discussion will probably be the official forums.

The problem, of course, is that equally intelligent discussions and theorycrafting also arises in 2ch if you're willing to sift through the vile pile. So, JP blogs like Metenyo, which sifts through 2ch to pick up the better discussions that go rampant in 2ch so most of the crap is avoided is really helpful.





Yes, yes, I realize I don't have a very JP-like handle. XD

Because I play under this same handle in FFXIV as well, (complete with an also equally Eastern-European Last Name of Ziolkowski) whenever I join an JP pickup party my fellow JPs are frequently put under the illusion that I'm anything but JP. But then I start typing Japanese and all is fine, but sometimes it's amsuing to watch JP reactions when I purposely stay silent and see what they have to say thinking I don't understand what they're saying, lol

Oh, and by the way, myself (with a w) and Stanislav (with a v) are two different people, so in case you're confused, hope that clears it up. =P

You totally mentioned that because of me lol.

[Stanislaw]

How widespread among the community is usage of Japanese 3rd-party tools like FFXIVLogRep? When I joined random Japanese groups, I rarely noticed competitive players, but that's a generality that spans across all PUGs.

Not as widespread as the NA's usage of it, obviously, but competitive players do use them. I guess the difference is that while even NA casuals use third party tools, JPs casuals almost never do but I suspect that's because they mostly don't know they even exist. Higher up in the ladder I think the difference in usage is pretty minimal.

Also, your rare encounters of competitive JP players is pretty much the same reason as why I almost never encountered competitive NA players. From my observations, both groups hardly 'lower' themselves to joining pickups or letting pickups join them, although in the latter case I do on occasion see the JPs letting pickups join their group if it's just to fill in one spot. I was blessed with several opportunities. Never an NA one, though.

You totally mentioned that because of me lol.

*feigns innocence*

[Carraway]

Yeah, the insularity certainly goes both ways. Half of my core group never PUG'd a single thing in XIV 1.0 and I don't blame them, because we encountered the same bullshit that makes Japanese players not want to party with NAs.

Were you ever in touch with members of AVALON on Durandal? Baum Rorschach, Lauren Rollingthunder, et al. They seemed pretty solid throughout the entirety of 1.0.

[Stanislaw]

Were you ever in touch with members of AVALON on Durandal? Baum Rorschach, Lauren Rollingthunder, et al. They seemed pretty solid throughout the entirety of 1.0.

Nope. Might've crossed paths some point, but not enough to notice. Honestly, about the only NA (centric) LS I even knew existed that had great players on Durandal was you guys, lol

Then again, the hours in which I played the game probably did not help.

[Ratatapa]

Nope. Might've crossed paths some point, but not enough to notice. Honestly, about the only NA (centric) LS I even knew existed that had great players on Durandal was you guys, lol

Then again, the hours in which I played the game probably did not help.

Hi you

[Stanislaw]

Hi you

I haven't forgotten about you. It's just that I almost never associated people with LS's in FFXIV. =P

To this day I don't even know which LS you belong to, lol

[Ratatapa]

Well I didn't had a ls so

[Carraway]

AVALON was, as far as I knew, one of the top Japanese shells on Durandal for a while.

[Ratatapa]

I do agree, that JP hated NA in FFXIV though

Usually (talking PUG wise) a NA joining a JP group, will usually get kicked 30sec in, unless he can prove, he can communicate. While a JP joining a NA, rarely get a problem.

Stanis helped me alot to get into JP group, like telling me how to act wiht them an all. So yeah JP are really different in their playstyle lol

[Hiroishime]

We are not really different tbh, gives NA players a member that can only speak French/German and aren't able to communicate in english, most NAs will acts exactly like how JPs treats NAs.

[Stanislaw]

AVALON was, as far as I knew, one of the top Japanese shells on Durandal for a while.

From my mistake in thinking they were an NA linkshell, I obviously don't know who they are lol

This probably stems mostly from the fact that I was never 'technically' in an Endgame LS in FFXIV, but was able to do pretty much all content through pickups and arranged statics. I kinda liked the 'mage-for-hire' playstyle I put myself through in 1.0.

We are not really different tbh, gives NA players a member that can only speak French/German and aren't able to communicate in english, most NAs will acts exactly like how JPs treats NAs.

Pretty much this. It's kinda like the same complaint some people make about SE that they don't care about NA's, et al, but ask Europeans how they feel about NA gaming companies. SE is actually one of the better ones when it comes to connecting with the International playerbase.

[Vimes]

Sad to say it, but back in XI a lot of NA were retarded 13-year olds, they kind of spoiled for the rest of us who trying to get along with JP when they stopped trying and started with the JP onry thing. It's one thing to be able to communicate with JP (which I can't), another to show them respect, after all different culture & manners etc. That's were the whole examine thing comes in, I don't even think it was about the translation or the message or whatever, it was probably a matter of how you interacted with each other and show the proper respect (which in our western culture is hard to grasp because we don't value things like that as much).

I'm from EU so we had to party with whoever was online during our peak hours (when NA got online, many times for us that was already the end of the night.). I've been in many PTs with 5 JP players in XI, they were mostly always very helpful and friendly even though we had very basic means of communicating. That said there were rotten apples on all sides, JP, NA and EU.

[Rocl]

We are not really different tbh, gives NA players a member that can only speak French/German and aren't able to communicate in english, most NAs will acts exactly like how JPs treats NAs.

The difference being that French/German are often awful players. Like, worse than JPs.

[Blasta]

One thing I observed which I thought was interesting was that whereas the NAs blame the JPs for being assholes with the whole "JP onry" fiasco and make a big deal about it and whatever-other behavior, we don't really place the blame on NAs being assholes because we've come to accept that's how NAs assholes are and are indifferent about it and thus don't really give a damn. I thought the difference in attitudes were interesting.

Well it makes perfect sense? JPs are gaman machines and no matter what, they'll just walk away where as NAs just start shouting. That's all there is to it?

P.S, plus isn't there even a saying like "kotoba nashi de no rikai" = understanding without using words = they all realize that NAs are loud bastards so there's no need to say it. Besides causing a scene is the worst thing you can do in Japan right?

[Delekii]

You just answered your own question. It's how their culture is and they view "staring" as incredibly rude and offensive. Different strokes for different folks really. So, it is what it is and there's really nothing you can do to change it. That is unless you are able to change Japanese culture, which is highly unlikely.

As for questions of the JP community. I'd be curious about their opinions on some of the fanfare from previous FF titles that are being added to the game, i.e. Crystal Tower, Gilgamesh, etc.

Also, do they enjoy PvP or the idea of having PvP in ARR? I remember when playing XI the JP community in that game seemed a little turned off by it, but I could be wrong.

Somewhat offtopic and quoting an old post, but as an Australian who spent a year in Japan, I wish someone had told the Japanese people that they find staring incredibly rude and offensive; 99% of the population seem to have missed that memo, and have absolutely no issue with staring whatsoever. Just sayin'.

The culture of staring being rude is not one that exists outside of FFXI; staring is something of a Japanese national pass-time.

[Waraji]

I think that only translates within their own culture, and not to foreigners. Although it also applies to you. It's okay for them to stare at you, but not vice versa, or within their own people. Buttfuck I'm not Japanese, so wtf do I know.

[Ksandra]

Somewhat offtopic and quoting an old post, but as an Australian who spent a year in Japan, I wish someone had told the Japanese people that they find staring incredibly rude and offensive; 99% of the population seem to have missed that memo, and have absolutely no issue with staring whatsoever. Just sayin'.

The culture of staring being rude is not one that exists outside of FFXI; staring is something of a Japanese national pass-time.

It is not so much "staring" as rude, but the actual kanji symbols used. The phrase they use basically suggest they are being undressed with your eyes. Which some kinda consider a rape-look.

[Elcura]

It is not so much "staring" as rude, but the actual kanji symbols used. The phrase they use basically suggest they are being undressed with your eyes. Which some kinda consider a rape-look.

You would think common sense would suggest that was not what was happening. It's their own fault for being offended at a mechanic when you know exactly what is going on and what the intent is. Which is far removed from rape of any kind.

Basically, they were being bitches.