Things You Should Know About Windower v4

[The Blackrose]

Cis privilege all up in this mother.

http://watchplayread.com/files/2011/04/lol-wut.jpg

No, seriously. Wrong thread to be slinging shit at the wall, just to see what sticks.

[Kaces]

Lack of hubris would cease these types of projects to exist.

[shepardG]

Whatever, they fixed the problem, I think their attitude was justified, a lot of folks don't. If I was the windower guys I'd say "fuck this shit" and just close the whole thing down. Of course I'm an asshole. Guess they're a bit more level headed than I would be.

[crux]

Was there attitude given? Fuck yes there was, but this is BG after all... a community of assholes. I mean that is the most loving way. I support both the windower team and their response to this.

As an aside, of the forums I visit, generally video gamers are the biggest assholes and certainly the biggest assholes who are proud of being assholes. BG is not unique among gaming forums for being full of people who enjoy being derisive. I really don't get what there is to be proud of.

[Demosthenes]

Save face, add a "send usage statistics" tick box, explain what is collected and call it a day. It would legitimately make everyone happy.

[Ksandra]

Gonna be in the boat of the devs missing the point on why this thread is still going.

It isn't so much of the google stuff, but HOW you are addressing it.

You're basically saying "use it or fuck off hahaha stupid people who don't understand the innerworkings of the internets."

Not everyone is internet savvy about this stuff. I STILL don't even get all the shit that's going on in here as you have yet to just give it in layman's terms.

This thread would have died really fast if aureus had just come in and said, "Sorry, we didn't realized some people wanted to know this information. We've added it into (whateverthefuckinserthere). For clarification all google analytics does is (X). We added it to windower because we wanted to (X)."

Instead he acted like a dick and that anyone who wants to know this info isn't worth their time and shouldn't use windower.

Now I can somewhat understand because the op was accusatory if he attacked the OP. Instead he attacked anyone in the thread who questioned what was going on. Now nits is doing it to, so...gg on treating your users like shit?

[Arcon]

Save face, add a "send usage statistics" tick box, explain what is collected and call it a day. It would legitimately make everyone happy.

If only. If people wanna stir shit, they don't need a good reason. This just happened to present itself rather fittingly.

Gonna be in the boat of the devs missing the point on why this thread is still going.

This thread is still going because of only one thing: drama queens. Everything that needed to be said has been said, and the thread was effectively dead a day ago. But as internet forums all over the world prove on a daily basis, they don't need meaningful posts to exist. This being one example of many. Everything you said has also been said several times before, once even by yourself. What was your reason for posting this, other than fueling the flames?

Now I can somewhat understand because the op was accusatory if he attacked the OP. Instead he attacked anyone in the thread who questioned what was going on. Now nits is doing it to, so...gg on treating your users like shit?

As Kohan has said before, devs need to not only worry about the code, but also about the user experience. That is precisely why large companies have a PR team. It builds their reputation and consequently attracts new clients. They do that to grow and flourish in a competitive market. And disregarding how much of that simply doesn't apply in here, what's most important, though, as soon as some mischievous little shit trying to incite drama appears and spews propaganda, they have someone they can dispatch to put on a smile and go all "Anything else I can help you with today?" on their ass. Windower doesn't have anyone like that. It was not handled graciously, but if someone came in and tried to appease that OP, I would have thought they were nuts. At least I can understand this reaction.

However, if you say they're "treating [their] users like shit", why don't they treat the people constructively reporting bugs or asking about help with their product that way? Do you think someone just felt like being an ass for a change? This may have escalated, but it was directed, and not at their userbase as a whole, not even at the people who argued against them here. Escalation is an ugly thing, and it's sad that it happened, but now you can either hold it against them, or realize it was because of an asshole who just wanted to watch the world burn. Because according to Alfred, such people do exist.

[Ksandra]

They don't treat bug reporters like shit because they (the users) are helping devs fix their stuff for free. Hardly means the same thing.

If windower doesn't have a pr person who doesn't sound like a dick, maybe they should get one.

As I said, it was ok to attack the OP, not ok to attack everyone who was trying to figure out what was going on.

I find it semi-amusing, that people began using windower because SE wouldn't listen to their users about what we wanted out of FFXI and wanted us to play it like it is or not at all, and now the devs at windower are saying the same thing.

[nitsuj]

I'm not treating anyone like shit! Apologies if you guys are taking my post that way. I was just pointing out that we do in fact have an opt-out and some great competition in the "windower" space that people are welcomed to use.

Nobody here is trying to be shitty to our users, but you guys have to understand how frustrating it can be from this end as well. I know the mods at BG get frustrated the same way windower devs do or game developers or anything. When you pour your soul into something and get attacked it's easy to get offended (especially since an attack thread seems to get more attention than a release thread).

We make a product for free and you guys get the benefits. Without you there is no windower (and thus no reason for us to keep making it) so if you don't like a feature, it's fine. We've gone out of our way and paid out of pocket for forums (http://forums.windower.net/) and a bug tracker (https://github.com/Windower/Issues) in order to make sure everything broken gets fixed and any feature requests you guys want gets implemented.

My tone (and I'm sure Aureues) purely comes from even through our previously mentioned unpaid coding hours, time spent debugging in IRC, money on the issue tracker and forums and everything we're trying to do... the first way you guys thought to bring it to our attention was via an attack thread on BG. Give us a shot to fix something first, please. If you go straight to attacks it's very easy to get someone riled up. Don't believe me? Try that approach with your girlfriend

[Ksandra]

I'm not treating anyone like shit! Apologies if you guys are taking my post that way.

I appreciate the response. It sounded that way because you started off by essentially saying, "you don't like it, don't use it." I do understand getting frustrated. To me, though, the goal is to take an outside look and think "even if I think this is pointless, it's clear that there are users that are worried about it." And take it from there.

[nitsuj]

I appreciate the response. It sounded that way because you started off by essentially saying, "you don't like it, don't use it." I do understand getting frustrated. To me, though, the goal is to take an outside look and think "even if I think this is pointless, it's clear that there are users that are worried about it." And take it from there.

Sure, we're on it. No worries. In the future, make sure you make an issue on our tracker for something like this because most of us don't have time to read BG as much as we'd like.

If anyone wants specific questions answered, I'm easily reachable a billion ways, so feel free to just contact me directly and I'll answer whatever questions anyone has (as I always try to on here/GW/FFXIAH/windower/etc).

[Demosthenes]

If only. If people wanna stir shit, they don't need a good reason. This just happened to present itself rather fittingly.

That is a given, you should note that ethics are a very real thing and while you might think it is a great idea, it is NICE to ask people before doing things that CAN be helped. Many applications already do this by default. What is the harm in doing it?

[dejet]

I'm not treating anyone like shit! Apologies if you guys are taking my post that way. I was just pointing out that we do in fact have an opt-out and some great competition in the "windower" space that people are welcomed to use.

Nobody here is trying to be shitty to our users, but you guys have to understand how frustrating it can be from this end as well. I know the mods at BG get frustrated the same way windower devs do or game developers or anything. When you pour your soul into something and get attacked it's easy to get offended (especially since an attack thread seems to get more attention than a release thread).

We make a product for free and you guys get the benefits. Without you there is no windower (and thus no reason for us to keep making it) so if you don't like a feature, it's fine. We've gone out of our way and paid out of pocket for forums (http://forums.windower.net/) and a bug tracker (https://github.com/Windower/Issues) in order to make sure everything broken gets fixed and any feature requests you guys want gets implemented.

My tone (and I'm sure Aureues) purely comes from even through our previously mentioned unpaid coding hours, time spent debugging in IRC, money on the issue tracker and forums and everything we're trying to do... the first way you guys thought to bring it to our attention was via an attack thread on BG. Give us a shot to fix something first, please. If you go straight to attacks it's very easy to get someone riled up. Don't believe me? Try that approach with your girlfriend

if this was the first post from the windower team 100% I think everyone that said anything bad afterwords would of been shit on and thread locked... This was what people wanted to see.

[Izzy]

First response should have been: Please report issues on the windower bug tracker.

Next action should have been the thread being closed.